The White House E-Mail Saga Gets Fishier

[DeepModem Mom]

WP: E-Mail Saga Gets Fishier
By Dan Froomkin
Special to washingtonpost.com
Friday, April 13, 2007

The saga of the missing White House e-mails took a turn from the deeply suspicious to the deeply, darkly suspicious yesterday as Democratic Rep. Henry Waxman disclosed the bizarre response by the Republican National Committee to early indications that consequential White House e-mails -- particularly to and from Karl Rove -- were being deleted.

From 2001 to 2004, the RNC's highly unusual "document retention" policy was to intentionally destroy all e-mails that were more than 30 days old. In the summer of 2004, due to "unspecified legal inquiries," the RNC changed its policy by allowing -- but not mandating -- the indefinite retention of e-mails sent and received by White House staffers on their RNC accounts. That was just around the time special prosecutor Patrick J. Fitzgerald's investigation of White House involvement in the leak of CIA agent Valerie Plame's identity was kicking into high gear.

Then, in 2005, when RNC officials discovered that all of Rove's RNC e-mails were still getting deleted, presumably by Rove himself, they blocked his ability -- and his ability alone -- to do that. Other White House staffers could still delete at will, just not Rove.

All this stands in dramatic contrast to explicit White House rules mandating that all official White House electronic communications take place exclusively through official White House e-mail accounts, which are supposed to automatically archive everything forever.

Rove, the Bush administration's ultimate political fixer, reportedly used his RNC e-mail for the vast majority of his electronic communication in violation of those rules.

These new, largely unexplained revelations were included in an extraordinary series of letters that Waxman, the chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, sent to 17 government agencies yesterday demanding that they preserve any e-mails received from or sent to non-governmental e-mail accounts used by White House staffers....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2007/04/13/BL2007041301125.html?hpid=opinionsbox2

[Hekate]

1. Kick. Rove makes Nixon look human

Thanks as always, DMM.

Hekate

[KT2000]

2. LOL! Good one! n/t

[DeepModem Mom]

3. You're most welcome, Hekate!

:)

[Eurobabe]

9. Rove makes Nixon look like an altar boy

This is HUGH!!

[HughMoran]

52. No, I'm Hugh

And I'm a moran :rofl:

[Jim Sagle]

57. R U series??????!!!!!!!!

[Lord Balto]

23. As I've Suggested Before...

The public part of Bush II's presidential library will be
stocked solely with copies of My Pet Goat. Everything else
will either be top secret and inaccessible or will not exist
at all.

[Danascot]

47. There was a story from the SMU student newspaper

in which people were expressing concern that the B*sh presidential library might be a terroist target, to which someone replied: "Who'd want to blow up an outhouse with a copy of my pet goat and a Captain America comic book?"

[glitch]

24. Perfect bumpersticker slogan. nt

[grannylib]

56. And Chimpy the Imbecile makes Rayguns look like Einstein.

[leftofthedial]

4. deleting all records of their crimes was the point in the first place

[az chela]

5. Porky pig is a disgusting piece of shit and he needs to be

charged for all the illegal things he has done and put in prison along with bush and cheney and all the rest of bushco

[Eurobabe]

10. Like the visual image of that chain gang

[mcg]

40. Notorious P.I.G.

[emald]

62. look at that chin fat slinging forward...disgusting seditious pig e/t

[Raksha]

6. K & R - Most lucid and complete article on the e-mail scandal

I've seen yet. Good for getting people up to speed who may not have been following this story.

[DeepModem Mom]

12. I agree. nt

[Princess Turandot]

7. I wonder if this was what Fitzgerald was referring to..

when he made a point of suggesting in his letter to Waxman that he review the Libby trial material (when he declined the offer to testify before Waxman's committee.) Even though Fitzgerald's subpoenas may not have picked up anything specific on AttorneyGate, the existence of the white-out of a second set of books involving the most senior WH staffers is certainly provocative on its face alone.

[radfringe]

8. NOT SO TIN-FOILy observation

:tinfoilhat: alert (maybe..?)

FLASHBACK:
During the Grand Jury sessions with Fitzpatrick, regarding the outing of Valerie Plame, Rove was under some heavy grilling. Rumors were flying that it looked like Rove be indicted for his involvement, or at the least on charges of obstruction and perjury.

As it came down to the wire - Rove "suddenly" produced an E-MAIL which amazingly saved his butt from being indicted.

FAST FORWARD to Recent events:
Revelations are abounding about White House and RNC E-mails in connection with Attorney-Gate. House and Senate committees want to take a look at those E-mails.

But, OH MY - the e-mails have been deleted. We are also learning that Rove is very fond of the 'delete' button.

here's where the :tinfoilhat: is placed upon my head:

-- Rove produced an e-mail (seemingly out of the blue) which got him off the hook for Plame, but now the Loyal Bushies can't find e-mails

something is smelly with Turd-Blossom et al.

* Rove likes using the delete button, but he didn't delete the e-mail which saved his butt regarding Plame? is he psychic enough to know that he would/might need that particular e-mail to save his butt at some point in the future? or was this particular e-mail created to save his butt?

* Why could Rove produce THE ONE e-mail that saved his butt, but the White House/RNC can't find the e-mails related to the current investigations?

[eShirl]

11. k&r !

[DeepModem Mom]

13. Very interesting! nt

[burythehatchet]

14. I too shall don the hat.

:thumbsup:

[CabalPowered]

17. Excellent points!

:thumbsup:

[kestrel91316]

21. I call that thing on your head a thinking cap, not a tinfoil hat. VERY

astute observation.

Is the magically-produced Rove email from the period when all his other emails are missing, perhaps??

[frogcycle]

27. good point. I'd say it is because they are all still in existence

he would never delete them completely

he probably has a detachable drive at home, does "save as" to it before deleting, or maybe just forwards mail to yet another undisclosed account that uses an Outlook instance with the files on that drive and the option to "delete from server when downloaded"

Then he deletes all traces, or so he thinks, from the known email systems, but has his "private stash" of everything he's ever seen or done. Much like Nixon's tapes, this hubris of compulsively hoarding everything may yet be his undoing. Except he got it off the premises. Without a criminal charge, "probable cause", they won't get to it. Unless someone got a search warrant for his house they'd not find it.

He probably resurrected that one email, copied it to a memstick, took it to work and restored it to the WH mail account.

[KelleyKramer]

53. A search warrant???

The Bush administration absolutely do NOT believe in the need for search warrants!

And Bush's director of intelligence tells us that 'probable cause' is not in the 4th amendment.

Actually the Bushies came up with a thing called 'sneak and peek'.. so Rove doesnt even have to be there, the authorities can just go in and search his house and Rove will never know about it.

But even so, I would love to see Rove on national tv arguing over why its important for the authorities to have a warrant.

GOP irony, it never ceases to amaze.

[frogcycle]

61. yeah, that would be fun

[KoKo]

32. I wondered about that e-mail, too when I read this...What adress did the email have?

Wouldn't Fitz's folks have checked to see if it was RNC or WH server? Or, did they and knew that it was sent through RNC server but Rove got away with explaining it was a "mistake" that he just sent it through the wrong server and Fitz's prosecutors let it go because they were focused on Libby and not on which email system Rove used.

I'm glad that CREW is asking Fitz to reopen the investigation. There's something really strange going on here.

[mcg]

50. Good question, was the time frame around July 11, 2003?

Here's an article "Taking a Leak on Us"
http://villagevoice.com/blogs/bushbeat/archive/reporters_subpoenaed/

"In a brief conversation with Rove, Cooper asked what to make of the flap over Wilson's criticisms. Newsweek obtained a copy of the e-mail that Cooper sent his bureau chief after speaking to Rove. (The e-mail was authenticated by a source intimately familiar with Time's editorial handling of the Wilson story, but who has asked not to be identified because of the magazine's corporate decision not to disclose its contents.)"

Is that the email that got Rove off the hook? If so, then Newsweek would be able to say what email server was used.

[The Count]

49. Excellent point: Rove's e-mails tend to appear & disappear on cue

he must be a computer wiz or sumpthin'

[Oilwellian]

15. Another question to ponder...

If the RNC stopped Rove's ability to delete his emails in 2005, then shouldn't they have all of his emails from the past 2 years? And wouldn't that include anything he wrote regarding the attorney purge?

[spanone]

19. Sounds like a conspiracy to me....RICO act?

[ddeclue]

16. Destruction of evidence is obstruction of justice = 20 years/count

[Emit]

18. And Dana Perino explains that this was done "either out of an abundance of caution, or...

because of convenience..."

I kid you not:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=650844&mesg_id=650844

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

20. Question: are they STILL using those outside accounts eve now? Have they

started to use the .gov accounts like they were supposed to all along?

[02cents]

22. When Gangsters Rule, They Rap

The MC Rove rap that was described by many media outlets as a joking display of self-mockery was IMHO a reflection of the actual reality of the situation...MC Rove is calling the shots, that is what a Master of Ceremonies does. I hope they take his harddrive and find all the missing emails plus a boatload of kiddie porn to put this bastard behind bars.

[Mme. Defarge]

25. So, if this administration is unable,

or unwilling, to follow White House rules for electronic communication, wouldn't that, in and of itself, be grounds for impeachment?

[hootinholler]

26. Why is this not Obstruction?

At least destruction of government property?

-Hoot

[Spazito]

28. Wow, Waxman sent letters to SEVENTEEN government agencies

regarding this:

Following briefings from the White House and Republican National Committee that revealed an extensive volume of e-mails regarding official government business may have been destroyed by the RNC, Chairman Waxman directs government agencies to preserve e-mails received from or sent to non-governmental e-mail accounts used by White House staffers. The Committee also requests that government agencies provide an inventory of all e-mails involving these accounts.

The briefing received by the Committee raises serious concerns about the White House compliance with the Presidential Records Act, which requires that the President “take all such steps as may be necessary to assure that the activities, deliberations, decisions, and policies that reflect the performance of his constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties are adequately documented and that such records are maintained as Presidential records.”

The letters to these agencies are here:

http://oversight.house.gov/story.asp?ID=1244

[Imagevision]

29. There just hasn't been enough of public outcry yet, even Imus took a week!!

[EVDebs]

30. 544 Camp Street = 1600 Pennsylvania Ave

The Presidential Records Act makes * responsible for those emails

http://www.archives.gov/presidential-libraries/laws/1978-act.html

They will fall back on 'national security' exemptions in the final analysis. Too bad, because NOTHING can unring the Liberty Bell once it starts clanging. Watching the self-immolation of the GOP is a lovely sight to behold !

The 'national security' canard is bogus since Carol Lam's firing was done under a domestic abuse of CIA/GOP covert funding obstruction of justice. This fig leaf is easily removed and the self-evidence of wrongdoing is inductively arrived at. Simple elimination of all other excuses leaves obstruction of justice in the investigation of the trail of CIA/GOP covert funding as the only remaining possibility.

The 'bushies' couldn't allow that investigation to continue. Now only Congress, via its oversight capacity, can get at the truth. Whistleblowers will be required, as with the Watergate precedent, but the public's insatiable thirst for TRUTH nowadays -- after seven years of the desert of deceit-- demands slaking !

"It's all part of a growing ongoing investigation into corruption in defense and intelligence contracts, which already has sent former Rep. Randy “Duke” Cunningham to prison and, legal sources say, may threaten others in Congress and the CIA. "

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12634250/

Indeed, who are these "others" threatened by the truth sitting in Congress and the CIA ? Why would they want to obstruct justice ?

The necessity to avoid a RICO filing against those in the White House,

""(c) The Supreme Court has held that a party seeking to overcome the constitutionally based privileges that apply to Presidential records must establish at least a "demonstrated, specific need" for particular records, a standard that turns on the nature of the proceeding and the importance of the information to that proceeding. See United States v. Nixon, 418 U.S. 683, 713 (1974)""

is the need to avoid an obstruction of justice, in this case the derailing of the Lam investigation, effectively shut down by the WH firings.

[Octafish]

34. You've written a book, EVDebs.

One that all Americans should read.

Thank you for spelling it out.

[EVDebs]

35. I try to keep it short a la Tom Paine and if I can get a Washington to print on a drumskin

to beat the message out I would:

""(to quote Thomas Paine's "Crisis" which he wrote on a drumskin by firelight, as an aide to General Henry Knox during the miserable retreat through New Jersey in the winter of 1776 following the disastrous loss of New York -- "These are the times that try men's souls" wrote Paine) and summer soldiers suddenly showed up and by the election, we were a huge organization.""

www.hartwilliams.com/hd8/blog/2005_05_22_A%20Holy-Owned%20Subsidiary

[redacted]

36. RICO filing?

[donkeyotay]

44. Yep, this sounds like them: RICO

The Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (commonly referred to as RICO Act or RICO) is a United States federal law that provides for extended penalties for criminal acts performed as part of an ongoing criminal organization. . . .

Under RICO, a person or group who commits any two of 35 crimes—27 federal crimes and 8 state crimes—within a 10-year period and, in the opinion of the United States Attorney bringing the case, has committed those crimes with similar purpose or results can be charged with racketeering. Those found guilty of racketeering can be fined up to $25,000 and/or sentenced to 20 years in prison. In addition, the racketeer must forfeit all ill-gotten gains and interest in any business gained through a pattern of "racketeering activity."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Corrupt_Organizations_Act

Among those 35 crimes are bribery, embezzlement, fraud and money laundering

[ClintonTyree]

31. They've already broken the law....

by using outside servers and then deleting e-mails after they were told not to. There is no presumption of innocence here, they knowingly broke the law on purpose. Case closed. Time to indict, and the Bush White House doesn't have a leg to stand on. This bunch of criminals must be made to evacuate the White House immediately. Speaker Pelosi assumes the office of President until the crimes of the Bush administration are sorted out and punishment meted out. You can't play by the rules with this bunch because they see themselves as above the rules. They are serial law breakers with absolutely no hope of ever being rehabilitated. End of story.

[tnlurker]

38. who will indict them

They are the justice dept.

[Spazito]

33. Rove has another outside e-mail account ....

as revealed in this article from the NYT dated April 13, 2007:

"Mr. Rove uses several e-mail accounts, including one with the Republican National Committee, one with the White House and a private domain account that is registered to the political consulting company he once owned."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/13/washington/13emails.html?ei=5090&en=657af3404c46354a&ex=1334116800&adxnnl=1&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&adxnnlx=1176574033-g7hX1mM0GKOS2dBG+2w+ww

[seafan]

41. Would that political consulting company be Karl Rove & Company?

No copyright cited:

Karl Rove & Company was established by Karl Rove in 1981, following the "unsuccessful primary campaign for president against Ronald Reagan in 1980." <1>

According to the November 5, 1999, Austin Chronicle, "Ted Delisi and Todd Olsen, a registered lobbyist, are fairly new to the political consulting game. In March, the two bought the political consulting portion of Karl Rove & Company, the consulting firm formerly owned by Karl Rove, the chief political strategist in George W. Bush's presidential campaign. Both are former employees of Rove. According to filings at the Texas Ethics Commission, Olsen lobbies for two clients, the Clean Power Campaign and the Texas Association of Paging Services. The combined income from those two clients is less than $60,000. <2>

"However, Olsen and Delisi bought what appears to be a profitable business from Rove, who has worked as a political adviser to most of the statewide officials now in office. Mailing list services are used not only by politicians but by for-profit and nonprofit groups who are eager to have the names and addresses of people who are known for charitable giving. And Rove's lists were among the most sought-after in the direct mail business. As a direct mail guru, Rove raised tens of millions of dollars for Republican politicians in Texas and elsewhere. With such clients as U.S. Senators Phil Gramm, Kay Bailey Hutchison, and Kit Bond of Missouri, Rove could easily have continued operating his consulting business, and he apparently planned to do so. But Bush wanted all of Rove's attention. In March, Rove told Michael Holmes of the Associated Press that he was selling his business to Olsen and Delisi because Bush wanted him to do so. Rove said Bush asked him to sell because the candidate didn't 'want my focus diluted.'" <3>

"While Delisi's work for the Bush campaign may not violate state ethics laws or Cornyn's policy, the amount of money involved in his consulting business is substantial enough to raise eyebrows. In July, the campaign reported that it paid the two companies in which Delisi is a partner -- Praxis List Company and Olsen & Delisi -- over $206,000 for direct mail and consulting work between April 1 and June 30. During the most recent reporting period, the Bush campaign reported 62 different expenditures to the companies totaling $766,458 -- $340,326 to Olsen & Delisi and $426,132 to Praxis. The most commonly listed reasons for the expenditures included 'consultant expense-fundraising,' 'list expense,' and 'direct mail expense'." <4>

When Rove sold the company to Delisi and Olsen, it owned "a number of very valuable mailing lists that can be rented to politicians and fundraisers of all types." <5>

"According to the Governor's (i.e. George W. Bush) most recent campaign filings at the Texas Ethics Commission, one of Bush's biggest campaign costs (after some $11 million for TV buys) is Karl Rove. A Bush family insider since 1973, when he was president of the national College Republicans, Rove has become one of the GOP's most important Texas players.

"Bush obviously values Rove's expertise - and Rove makes him pay for it. From July through December, Bush's re-election committee paid Karl Rove & Co. nearly $2.5 million, and also paid the Rove-owned Praxis List Company $267,000 (for use of mail lists). Rove says his work for the Bush campaign included direct mail, voter contact, phone banks, computer services, and travel expenses. Of the $2.5 million, Rove said, 'About 30 percent of that is postage.' The Governor is quick to praise Rove, calling him 'a close friend' and a 'confidant' with 'good judgment.'" <6>

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Karl_Rove_%26_Company

[Spazito]

43. Yep, sure looks like it!

I hope letters are already on their way, if not already received, to this company warning them to retain all e-mails from rove's e-mail account and the submission of all e-mails written by rove that dealt, IN ANY WAY, with WH business.

[paparush]

37. Its going to take a Mole with a Soul - Someone who's kept copies.

Someone with a conscience.
Someone with a sense of duty.
Someone with a grudge.
Someone with a sense of history



oh, and....


Someone with big balls.

[Usrename]

42. Yep.

And I bet it will be more than one hero when the other shoe starts to drop. I almost have the feeling that Waxman and Lehey already know much more than what they are letting on about.

And I can't help but recall back when the Republicans were caught electronically spying on all the Democratic committee correspondance. I just assumed that breech would be used to create more secrecy by these criminals.

It helps to have faith that we will continue to graced by the true heroism that ordinary people can muster. This must be a new hope for bringing down this regime.

[Imagevision]

39. It's going to take Leahy to stop bluffing and serve the damn subpeona's already!!

[KeepItReal]

45. So the RNC is saying that they allowed Rove himself to delete emails on the MAIL SERVER ITSELF??

Their excuses are full of crap.

The only emails he normally would be able to delete would be on his own personal computer.

The emails that he sent and received are processed and stored (and periodically backed up if the tech guys have a clue) in a Mail Server (computer) that's in a back office somewhere.

To say that Rove or any end-user was given permission to totally delete emails doesn't add up at all.

[indie_voter]

48. not necessarily. did he use pop or imap?

If he used pop then the mail is downloaded to your computer and you can set your preferences to delete it from the server.

with imap it's stored on the mail server.

http://www.entourage.mvps.org/glossary/pop_imap.html

http://kb.wisc.edu/helpdesk/page.php?id=1535

[thoughttheater]

46. Pithy Visual: White Announces Project Purge

See a pithy tongue-in-cheek visual that skewers Karl Rove and the Bush administration's disregard for accountability...here:

www.thoughttheater.com

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

51. Damn.

You think David Holtzman has been reading my stuff? ;-)

[scytale888]

54. Ghost of Rose Mary Woods ????

Sent to the planet Koosbane, :hide:
the missing 18 minutes of tape recording, the e-mails, that sock that somehow never leaves my dryer

:spray:

[Hamlette]

55. Froomkin has been great, the only intelligent voice at the once great Post

one of the saddest chapters in what has become of our wonderful country has been what has become of the Washington Post. It was not just the investigation of Watergate but the Pentagon papers and other courageous stands taken by the Post in the ugly 70s.

Now the Post appears to be a wholly owned subsidiary of the GOP. Froomkin and a couple of others have been good but they seem like tokens.

Read the great autobiography of Katharine Graham "A Personal History" to understand what we have lost and how great a paper could be when independently owned.

[DeepModem Mom]

60. A victim of the Beltway social scene, I think; journalists too close to their subjects...

too willing to put on blinders when it comes to the powerful, and too eager for dinner party invitations.

[Hamlette]

63. but that didn't work to dems advantage when Clinton was prez so I'm not sure that's the answer. n/t

[DeepModem Mom]

64. It's my impression that the Beltway swells never accepted Bill Clinton --

they couldn's get past what they considered his "white trash" background.

[progressoid]

58. Fishy would be the understatement of the decade.

:argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh:

[caligirl]

59. go back and look at Gale Norton's emails, federici, etc.Abramoff.

Bet lots of Rove RNC server email there.

[myrna minx]

65. Kick for this interesting read. n/t

[freebrew]

66. Just thinking of the future for a moment...

when this lousy bastard is out of office. As a taxpayer, I'm horrified that I must pay for the ultimate level of security for this puss bucket of human filth.