I sent a 28-year-old man to prison for statutory rape of my 13-year-old daughter...

[cynatnite]

He served 2 years and is a registered sex offender.

I do not regret it.

[VMI Dem]

1. Rec.

[Mz Pip]

2. I'd do the same thing

with no regrets.

That's what our criminal justice system is for.

[Avalux]

3. Good for you. I have a 13 year old daughter right now.

If a 43 year old man (Polanski) who I thought was trying to help her with a career lied to me and took her to an empty house, took nude pictures of her, fed her champagne and drugs then violated every orifice of her body, I might have done worse. He might not have survived to stand trial.

The thought of that child alone and scared, knowing what was about to happen and that she couldn't escape, sickens me to the core.

I don't give a shit if he's made good movies.

I am sorry about your daughter. :hug:

[cynatnite]

6. I love his movies, but it doesn't erase what he's done...nothing will do that....

Thanks.

It was a tough time for her. She's in college now.

[SoCalDem]

11. "...help her with a career..." is the only quibble I have

13 year old girls need PARENTS, not AGENTS. A "career" for a 13 yr old girl, is going to slumber parties with other 13 yr old girls, riding her bike, practicing with fixing her hair, studying for school, etc.

"Stage Mothers" who push their pubescent daughters into the hands of perverts with cameras, need some prosecutional attention, as well.

When you have a child, it's YOUR job to keep them safe. It's not always possible, but probably 99% of the time Mom can prevent serious harm coming to their child, by making sure they are treated as children, and not clients or buddies.

That little girl had a Mom with "stars in her eyes", and hopes that her daughter would be the "next thing"...so she (Mom) might live an easier life with a daughter in "show-business", making big-bucks.

[Avalux]

12. I have no argument with you there.

But he walked into their house, a famous guy, wanted to take the girl to visit Jack Nicholson (a lie) - he clearly had the upperhand and used it to his advantage.

Does not excuse Polanski's actions.

[peace frog]

71. He was an adult who drugged and raped a child

while she was too incapacitated to fight him off. Her mother's poor judgement does not excuse his crime in any way.

[Ms. Toad]

103. Nowhwere close to 99% of the time

>>When you have a child, it's YOUR job to keep them safe. It's not always possible, but probably 99% of the time Mom can prevent serious harm coming to their child, by making sure they are treated as children, and not clients or buddies.<<

The generally accepted statistic is that 1 in 4 women are sexually abused before they reach age 18 (and one in 6 boys). Here's a relatively recent study: http://www.jimhopper.com/pdfs/Dube_(2005)_Childhood_sexual_abuse_by_gender_of_victim.pdf The statistic for girls has been pretty constant since I worked as a rape crisis counselor in the 80s; the one for boys has varied from 1 in 5 to 1 in 7. Whatever the statistic is for males, nowhere close to 99% safety - and most of those incidents have nothing to do with whether mom treated them as "children, and not clients or buddies."

Whether a 13 year old should have a career (and I tend to agree with you that the vast majority of kids who have careers at 13 shouldn't), parents of kids who are sexually abused or raped feel enough guilt about what happened to their children without being told that they could have prevented serious harm.

[bluescribbler]

119. I was one of the 1 in 6

I was 15, and my Scoutmaster molested me on a camping trip. I let it slip to my sister, and she told my dad. We had a new Scoutmaster the following week.

[Ms. Toad]

125. Sorry to hear it.

But, to my point, what happened to you is not something your parents could have prevented.

Your dad reacted appropriately (thank goodness!), but being supportive and taking action after the fact doesn't keep kids safe 99% of the time.

[bluescribbler]

151. Yes, Dad acted appropriately, as did my Sister

I, like many others, felt that I was somewhat culpable, and was ashamed to tell my parents. Of course, I know better now.

[Ms. Toad]

158. As I'm sure you're aware now,

perpetrators are very good at making their victims believe they were to blame - part of how they keep those they have hurt quiet so they can continue to abuse others without interference.

I'm glad you know better now - not everyone gets there.

[SoCalDem]

167. I said "can" because it's probably possible.. Many Moms ignore their gut feelings

look the other way because they "love" the guy, or even refuse to believe the child.. (I was one of the 1-in-4...so many years ago)

[moriah]

176. I hope your mother believed you.

I want to believe that the vast majority of mothers would believe their children. I have only met one person whose mother did not believe her about what her father was doing to her when she finally told... and if I ever met that person's mother I would be hard-pressed not to slap the shit out of her. However, I can't lay blame when a mother was fooled into trusting someone. I can't see how any mother in their right mind would marry or date someone who they thought was capable of molesting their children (yes, some do, similar to the ones who believe their man over their children, but they aren't in their right minds, in my opinion). Rapists and molesters are extremely talented manipulators -- while I am sure that in some cases the failure to recognize what was happening to the child was the result of denial (it isn't just a river in Egypt), I think most of the time it is because they honestly didn't believe that the person they trusted was capable of such vileness.

When my sister was molested, my mother didn't realize what was going on. At the time she was working as an inventory clerk for a retail chain -- she would have to leave town Monday morning and didn't return back home until Friday night. She hated to be away from us, but we had to have a roof over our head and she wasn't able to find another job that would let her be at home every night that would also pay enough to keep the roof over our head. She had already left him when my sister's friend forced her to tell Mom -- and my sister only relented to her friend's pressure because he wanted to have visitation with me.

I don't think my mother has ever forgiven herself for trusting him. Because she no longer trusted her own judgment in men, she stopped dating after that -- she swore that we would never have a stepfather again, and swore that she would never let it happen to me. She gained over 100 lbs, partially because she was so guilt-ridden over what happened, and partially as a subconscious way to keep men from wanting to date her. She only started dating again a few years ago, and is now married -- but she punished herself for more than 20 years. When I was targeted despite her sacrifices for me, I couldn't bring myself to tell her that she had punished herself for years in vain.

[SoCalDem]

177. Nope..

and she died without ever realizing that a 12 yr old was not trying to steal her husband..sad all-round

[moriah]

178. Not to offend you by insulting your deceased mother, but ...

... it honestly sounds like she didn't deserve to be called a "mother". Some women are merely incubators, not mothers.

Sad, indeed. :hug:

[Ms. Toad]

186. Unfortunately, it isn't - and suggesting it is

only compounds the guilt worse for those moms who aren't able to prevent it.

The perpetrators of these crimes are very good at getting away with it. They often spend months or sometimes even years grooming the child, figure out just what to say to make the child remain quiet. To say 99% of the time it could be prevented isn't quite blaming the victim - but pretty darn close.

(That doesn't mean there aren't some moms who look the other way, or who refuse to believe the child - I've seen that too - but not even close to enough to make this crime preventable 99% of the time.)

Sorry you were part of the 1-in-4. I hope your mom was supportive - but my guess from your contribution here is that she was one who looked the other way.

[noiretextatique]

4. good for you

sorry your daughter went through that. glad the perp did some time.

[customerserviceguy]

105. Two years is not nearly enough, though

Child rapists should never again take a breath that is not filtered through a prison ventilation system, if they should be allowed to breathe at all.

[Nye Bevan]

5. I am very sorry about what happened to your daughter

and I strongly suggest that you stay away from the Polanski threads on DU. They do not represent DU's finest hour.

[cynatnite]

8. I've seen 'em. That's why I posted this. n/t

[spiritual_gunfighter]

133. They certainly don't

I really didn't think I could be shocked anymore at some of the things people post on DU but all the child rape apologists have really shocked me.

[madokie]

7. Yep I'd do the same thing

If it'd been a few years ago when I used to drink I'd a been looking to get my hands on his sorry throat too, if you want to know the truth that is.

[Ilsa]

9. As a recovered victim, I feel for you and your child. I support what you did.

I don't care how much money RP has, how much good he may have done over the years, he is filth in my book, and he should stand trial.

[WeekendWarrior]

10. No reason you should regret it. nt.

[lillypaddle]

13. stay strong

you did what needed to be done. Peace to you and your child. I'm so sorry life is unfair much of the time. As a parent, my heart goes out to you.

[corpseratemedia]

14. Some of the things I've read about what people think of 13 year old girls

makes me sick. They're children. I am the same age as the defendant, it wasn't free love in 1978, 13 year old girls aren't fantastical Nabokovian nymphs, in my it was case a lot of sexual harassment by a lot of older men.

In her case, he drugged and raped her. He plead guilty. He ran.

He happens to make great films. But there shouldn't be two standards of justice, one for bankers vs. regular people, or talented artists vs. regular people, or white people vs. black people, etc.

Thanks for defending your daughter.

[dotymed]

98. Exactly

no matter "how old they look or act", they are
children. Mine "thought" they were mentally grown at
that age. They look back now, and realize they were children.
Scars run deep. They never (that I am aware of) experienced a
predator that was successful, but my oldest daughter and I
benefited from finding the right counselor and learning to
communicate. She is now 20, full ride scholarship, and we are
close. Thank God.

p.s. I think the wrong counselor would have made things worse,
we were lucky to find her... The best to both of you.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

15. I was talking to my dad yesterday...

...he says he would have killed the perp if it had been me who was attacked.

I believe him so much my blood ran cold. I love my dad, he's always been there for me after mom flaked-out. He's been my whole world. I couldn't imagine him being hauled off to prison for killing a rapist, even if I was the one who had been hurt but I know my dad and I believed him.

I'm glad you prosecuted.

K&R

[moriah]

20. Knowing my father would do the same thing was one of the reasons...

... that I didn't tell the full story when I was raped at 13. (Yes, that's part of the reason I feel strongly about this case -- I'm obviously identifying with the victim. But that's not something I'm ashamed of.) Dad didn't live with us and had a lot of his own problems, but he would have killed him without a second thought if he had heard the full story.

Actually, a lot of the circumstances were similar. No, the dude wasn't rich and famous, nor was he three times my age -- he was 22. My mother trusted him to be alone with me, as she thought he saw me as a little sister and had actually been showing quite a bit of interest in my older sister, who was his age. He'd spent nearly a year cultivating that trust. He did jobs around the house, moved furniture when we needed it, picked me up from school to take me to get my allergy shots -- keeping my mother from having to leave work early to do it herself. He had even volunteered to be my Algebra tutor the next year, since my mother had made the decision to homeschool me in the fall.

But that summer when he came over and we were alone in the house he had the opportunity he had been waiting for.

The act was interrupted, too -- another friend of mine, a 17-year-old who really did see me as his little sister, called. There wasn't caller ID back then and as I was supposed to be at home he knew he had to let me answer it in case it was Mom checking up on me. I grabbed the clothes he had torn off of me as I ran to get the phone, and clothed myself while I was speaking to my friend, but I was not thinking very clearly at all, I was too afraid, and I couldn't make myself tell him what had just happened. He could tell something was wrong but I just couldn't get the words out.

After I hung up, I saw he was still in my bedroom and so I went into the living room and sat on the couch. I wasn't about to go back in there with him. He came out, sat on the couch beside me, and put his arm around me -- I was stiff with fright and jerked away.

Then he started crying. He apologized, said it was the worst mistake of his life, that I was just so beautiful, that he didn't realize I wasn't enjoying it, that he never meant to hurt me, and that he would go away and never talk to me again, that I'd never have to see him ever again...

This man had been my closest friend for over a year. I trusted him, loved him like a brother. I didn't have many friends, I was an outcast at school and the way he said things made me feel like I was wrong to be upset and that my reaction to what he did was going to cost me my best friend.

I told him I forgave him.

Fortunately for me, he didn't have a chance to be alone with me again. Also fortunately for me, I was scheduled to leave the state for three weeks very soon after that, to attend the Duke University Summer Residential Program for G/T students. That gave me the distance and the time to process what had happened. My sister had been molested and my mother didn't catch on until my sister's friend forced her to tell my mother -- Mom had punished herself for years for not preventing what happened to my sister, and in her mind she had done her damndest to protect me. I didn't want her to know that all of the sacrifices she had made to protect me were in vain. I didn't want my father to kill him. At the time I was blaming myself for attracting his interest -- I didn't think he would hurt anyone else. I just didn't want him to hurt me again.

So I told my mother that he tried to kiss me. That was reason enough for her to keep him away from me. Since I had met him on the local BBSes and didn't want him to try to talk to me there, I also told several of the System Operators that he tried to kiss me. He was thrown off of every BBS in Arkansas except ones that required real names and paid accounts -- ones that I didn't call. My father told me later that he went to the dude's house with a gun and sat outside his house for about an hour, and that if he had come outside that he likely would have shot him -- even with just thinking all the dude had tried to do was kiss me.

I regret not prosecuting him. I hope to God that he hasn't raped another woman or girl. But I'm also glad my father didn't spend his last years in jail for murder (he died July 21st from AIDS, had been diagnosed already at the time of the incident).

[Ms. Toad]

106. I am sorry for what you went through,

and for the loss of your father.

Thank you for sharing your story.

:hug:

[Nuclear Unicorn]

112. Maybe you have some regrets but...

...you did take action.

You have nothing to be ashamed of and your strength is admirable.

Thank-you for sharing.

[hedgehog]

138. I think you bring up a very important point - in his mind,

"he didn't realize I wasn't enjoying it, that he never meant to hurt me"

Now, I am NOT saying that you led him on or failed to resist or failed to say no or anything like that. What I am saying is that in his mind, since he wanted you, you must have wanted him. Once he made that assumption, anything and everything you did or said was twisted to prove that you wanted to have sex with him.

I think there are a lot of men who think of themselves as nice guys who would never rape anyone but who in fact have forced sex on women they know.

[moriah]

156. I would tend to agree with you there.

With him being sick enough in the head to think having sex with a 13 year old who was nine years younger than him was okay, he very well could have twisted everything in his mind -- thinking that because I valued him as a friend that obviously I wanted him, etc. He might have thought I had a crush on him or something. He might have even thought that because I was intellectually much more mature than most 13 year olds (most people on the local BBSes thought I was in college when they first spoke with me) that I was emotionally mature enough that the age difference didn't matter.

Or it could have been a calculated attempt to manipulate me into not saying anything about it.

I don't know.

[mzmolly]

165. I'm going to go with calculated

attempt.

I'm sorry for what you've experienced. I had a close call at 12, with a friends 24 y/o brother, but I managed to get away. My captor apologized with seeming sincerity as well. Later I found out that he molested his younger sister for years. He's dead now. If I knew where his grave was, I'd take time to spit on it.

I'm sorry you did not escape your situation moriah.

[Itchinjim]

24. When my older sister was ten years old, some guy tried to lure her into his car.

She ran home as fast as she could and told my parents. While mom called the police, my dad hopped in the car and went looking for the guy. Lucky for the pervert that the police found him before my dad did. It was 1967 and I'm pretty sure dad would have gotten into very little trouble for beating the living shit out of the scumbag.

[mzmolly]

174. I had several like experiences.

Unfortunately. Thank goodness I was street smart.

[Odin2005]

16. No reason you should!

:hug:

[glinda]

17. When I was abducted and caused to not have children, at age 5, the fellow back then

only went to the "work house" for a few months. Be grateful. Be happy for what you did. Good job. Sentencing has toughened in 50 years. Sorry it took so long.

[Control-Z]

19. I'm so sorry, glinda.

So sorry for what happened to you. {{{{glinda}}}} :hug:

[grantcart]

88. move over

:grouphug:

[Morning Dew]

30. Oh, Glinda

:hug:

So sorry to hear that happened to you.

[Odin2005]

34. OMG!

:cry: :hug:

[babylonsister]

50. Gulp.

I'm so sorry to hear that, glinda. Here's a hug, and thank you for sharing. :hug:

[glinda]

62. It is OK. Thanks for all the reactions I think. Such a shock. Easy to mention it when not

standing in front of you. It is something I rarely ever share with anyone. So I can sympathize with the poster on their daughter quite easily. It just made me stronger.
Besides.... wanted to add my two cents worth. :pals:

[seabeyond]

63. wink

:thumbsup:

[redqueen]

126. ...

"Easy to mention it when not standing in front of you"

Aint' that the truth.

:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

[Kajsa]

134. I am so sorry,Glinda!

:( :hug:

[LeftishBrit]

153. I am so sorry - there are no words.

[subcomhd]

18. that's fucked up

[moriah]

21. I'm assuming you believe the fact he only got two years was what was fucked up there? n/t

[subcomhd]

22. No. The fact the OPs daughter went through all of that.

[Control-Z]

23. You did exactly what

any loving, responsible parent would do. And you may have saved some other little girl(s) from the same awful fate as your daughter's. (If the man learned anything)

I'm sorry for all that's happened.

[Number23]

25. You have my thanks and the thanks of parents everywhere, I believe.

You are also a better person than me. I would have been trying to grill his balls with a flamethrower.

[Solly Mack]

26. K&R

[LaPera]

27. Suppose he was eighteen, would you of done the same?

[moriah]

38. I don't know about the OP, or her state's law, but here in Arkansas....

... it is a class Y felony and rape by definition for a person more than three years older than the victim to have sex with a person under 14. If it had been my daughter? Yes, I would have done the same.

What about you? Do you have kids? Would you want an 18-year-old, an adult, having sex with your 13-year-old daughter? Would you want him to be prosecuted for it if he did? I know my dad just about flipped out when I wanted to date a person only two years older than me... and he threatened my first serious boyfriend (who was only one year older than me) with a knife, saying "If you stick something in my daughter, I'll stick something in you."

[LaPera]

47. Yeah sounds real sensible...

Your dad sounds like he has big problems though, let me guess....dear old dad has voted for republicans hasn't he....Dad should of had more trust in his daughter, the guys certainly were not going to rape you. And I'm sure a good girl like yourself would never of pursued any of the boys you liked so nothing would of happened.

And if it did then it would mean it's ONLY be the guys fault, because it's always the boys fault, girls I know and you too never peruse, never ever, nor is it ever mutual. Yep you right, it only the boys fault.....and the boys should be thrown in a vat of boiling oil, then jailed the damn sex fiends.

But then I have to think about it and say, fuck, it is fucking Arkansas after all....those poor boys growing up in the small towns in a backward state, with the one of highest divorce rates in the country, least tolerant of any states, religion pushed down their throats from the time they are born, the highest rates of teen pregnancy of any region in the country, and Arkansas ranks near the bottom in education - just above Alabama Mississippi, Louisiana & Kentucky, while receiving the most government money, subsides (per capita) of any region in the whole country....But none of this should be taken into considerations....Sounds to me like your father remembers very clearly what it was like to be 15 or 16 boy and what he did and wanted to do.....Certainly doesn't want them to be like him...nor would I want that.

Yes, you're correct I certainly wouldn't want an 18 year old boy "having sex" with my 13 year old daughter. And I would want him to be thrown into a vat of hot boiling oil as well!

[moriah]

65. I wouldn't want an 18-year-old woman having sex with my 13-year-old son either....

And it'd still be rape under Arkansas law in that case as well.

Thank you ever so much for insulting my father -- he died July 21st or I would give him the opportunity to respond to you himself.

[myrna minx]

123. I'm so sorry that you had to read such a nasty reply, especially

after you shared your traumatic story with us. :hug:

[Kajsa]

137. I agree with Myrna,

I'm sorry you got such a nasty, vile response.

:hug:

[Jennicut]

68. I was molested at 13 by my brother's best friend, who was 18.

Luckily, it did not go too far...or I would have been more traumatized. But it made me not want to date anyone for a couple of years, had a lot of mistrust issues.
I never told anyone, except my brother when I was finally in my twenties.
Does not matter what gender the abuser is, it can effect the other person. I have daughters but have worked with boys that were sexually abused as a counselor and it really effects their self esteem too. Not enough people talk about what boys go through as most people expect that they would enjoy it.

[myrna minx]

122. This is such a nasty reply. Uncalled for.

:puke:

[Kajsa]

135. WTH? Did you even read her post

#20?

What a nasty, vile response to her.

YOU have the problem, not the other way around.

[Hekate]

44. But he wasn't. Why would you even ask that, under the circumstances?

This is not an abstraction for this family.

Hekate

[cynatnite]

51. This man that did this to our daughter could have gotten 10-15 years in prison...

He didn't because my husband and I wanted the punishment to fit the crime. That's why he only got 2 years. Since she wasn't the first young girl he'd gotten involved with we pressed for counseling and were told that having him registered as a sex offender guarantees that he not only gets counseling, but will help prevent any future action he might take.

In this state, if there is more than 4 years age difference, then it's considered statutory rape. If the man had been 18 and still had the history that the one we sent prison did, yes, I'd do it again and not lose a bit of sleep over it.

Every situation is different and must be judged accordingly.

[LaPera]

53. No, I would of hunted him down like a wild dog and blown off his fucking head!

Do I meet your approval now?

Oops sorry, I would of shot his privates first.

[JerseygirlCT]

56. Just by the way?

"of" is not a verb.

[LaPera]

59. It is, just not in Trenton!!

[cynatnite]

57. That was our gut instincts, but we wanted to do the right thing...

revenge serves no one except the person who does it. My gut still twists in knots over what he did to our daughter and I'm sure my husband has considered taking the rifle out and going after the guy. But logic and justice had to prevail.

Not only that, if we followed through with our internal desires for revenge...how does that help our daughter? How would our imprisonment gotten her through the ordeal and the recovery?

Revenge is a selfish act and has no place in a society that proclaims itself to be a just one.

[LaPera]

However, I still don't understand why you chose to advertise this?

[cynatnite]

60. I felt that too many people were dismissive of statutory rape here at DU...

That's why I came forward. My daughter went through counseling because she couldn't comprehend the weight of what had happened to her. She knows now that she's an adult at how wrong this was.

Young 13-year-old girls comprehend on an entirely different level than adults. That's why we don't allow them to make grown-up decisions such as sex, drinking, driving, voting and so on. That's why they are minors. I felt that a lot of people on DU didn't understand that and were blaming the girl rather than the adult who knew better.

[LaPera]

64. I understand...but I do recall when I just turned 15

years old and this girl 13 years old in the neighborhood (almost 14) perused me constantly and we ended up fucking every day for about a year until I got tired of it and moved on and she took up with some older guys when I tired of her....I suppose we were about 18 month's apart in age...and she looked hot and older than she was and again just wouldn't leave me alone and I was banging everything else in the neighborhood as well....But one grows up and moves on & puts away childish things, to a lot more fun things....and next year in August my wife & I will celebrate our 30 year wedding anniversary, (we have two daughters and a son)....If I was a year or two older back then I may have gone to jail and ruined the rest of my life.

[uppityperson]

92. As you wrote, "I still don't understand why you chose to advertise this?"

[renate]

115. lol

:thumbsup:

[myrna minx]

124. LOL

:rofl:

[LaPera]

139. LOL! Have a little perception my dear....

You are righteous and absolutely correct.....We hail you - Ten Thousand Thank You(s)!!!

[Name removed]

146. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

159. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

162. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

166. Deleted message

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[AtheistCrusader]

131. Appeal to absurdity

Any more foul insights or logical fallacies you want to share in this thread?

Please come back when you can keep carrying out a lawfully imposed sentence, under due process, in perspective.

[Name removed]

143. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AtheistCrusader]

145. You appear to be making a point that the treatment was heavy-handed or overbearing

but you are doing a bull in a china shop job of making your point.

[Name removed]

147. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

163. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

170. Deleted message

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[LaPera]

161. You are predictable!!

:rofl:

[Codeine]

179. Would "HAVE"

Would "HAVE"

Would "HAVE"

[seabeyond]

67. i like that. with that young, and teens being sexual, having a 4 yr age spread is good

best solution i have heard.

[moriah]

78. Arkansas only has a 3 year spread in their definition of "rape", but ...

... the older the youngest person is, the less serious the offense and the larger the spread -- there is also a difference in how sexual contact without actual intercourse is handled.

An 18-year old having sex with a 13 year old would be considered class Y felony rape with a sentence of 25-life -- and while a 17 year old having sex with a 13 year old still meets the statutory definition of class Y rape, the jury would have the option of convicting on the lesser included offense of class C felony sexual assault in the third degree since the oldest person was under 18 (3-10 years normally, but alternative sanctions can be approved). However, if the victim was 14 or 15, it is not illegal unless the person is 20 or older, and in that case it is considered class D felony sexual assault in the 4th degree -- maximum sentence is six years but there is no requirement that the person must be imprisoned.

If a 18 year old had sexual contact with a 13 year old but did not actually have intercourse, it would be considered class B felony sexual assault in the second degree (5-20 years). A 17 year old having sexual contact but not intercourse with a 13 year old would be legal, but if the ages were 11 and 15 or 12 and 17 it would be considered class D felony sexual assault in the second degree -- maximum 6 years but no requirement that they serve time in jail. If the victim was 14 or 15, it would not be illegal unless the older party was 20 or older, and even then it would be misdemeanor sexual assault in the 4th degree (maximum less than 1 year, no requirement for jail time).

Confused yet? I was for awhile... heh.

[bluescribbler]

118. This actually makes a lot of sense

The younger the victim is, the more serious the crime is. The greater the disparity in ages is, the more serious the crime is. Someone got smart about this.

[Justyce]

107. An 18 and a 13-year-old? I would definitely have pressed charges. nt

[justiceischeap]

108. There's something wrong with an 18 yr old who wants to have sex with a 13 yr old

There's something wrong when any adult (or near adult) wants to have sex with a child. Period.

[sagetea]

28. Your daughter is very lucky...

My father called me a slut and 5 1/2 mos. later put me in a mental hospital for cutting myself.
The perps, one was in his 30's the other was a friend of my dad's acquaintances, in his late 40's, he (my father) was to embarrassed to do anything about it. I started to cut myself, they put me in a mental hospital, at least they did that.
When I got out, I was sent to live with my great-grandmother on the reservation, that was the best for me.

Sage

[renate]

114. how awful... how unfair

I'm really sorry to hear this. It's infuriating enough to read about your dad's "embarrassment" and his choice to blame you and punish you--I can't imagine how you feel having lived through it.

:hug:

[Arkana]

29. You're a better person than me.

Had I caught the young fellow in question I'd have gone Last House on the Left on his ass.

[michreject]

31. It wouldn't be prison nt.

[theothersnippywshrub]

32. I am sorry he served only 2 years. The system failed you and your daughter. And all of us.

You did the right thing. And he got two years. That is not right.

[moriah]

33. Thank you for standing by your daughter.

I know my mother would have done the same, but I was still too afraid to hurt her by letting her know that all of her efforts to protect me had failed.

A younger friend of mine chose to disclose her stepfather's abuse to me -- she had told no one else. She was absolutely terrified that her mother would either blame her for it or not believe her that it happened, but her younger sister was approaching the age she was when he first started abusing her and she wanted to protect her sister. She was visiting me at the time, it was summer, and I didn't let her leave to go back home until she had promised to at least tell one of her mother's friends who I knew would be more than happy to be there with her when she told her mother.

While she was visiting me she decided to tell my mother (perhaps as practice? perhaps because she knew Mom had stood by my sister?), and my mother was shocked that the way she described what happened was that she was "having an affair" with him -- she really blamed herself and was certain that was how her mother would see it. She also told one of my other female friends, who found the words she needed to hear: "It wouldn't matter if you had danced the hoochie-coochie buck naked in front of him and begged him to fuck you -- you are his stepdaughter, you were a *child*, he should have refused!" Finally when I was certain that she would tell her mother's friend, I took her home.

Fortunately she was very wrong about her mother's reaction -- her mother stood by her, believed her, and did not blame her. Her mother's support was what gave her the strength to report it to the police, then to gather evidence for the police by going to his house wearing a wire. She ended up having to go twice, even though he admitted what he had done on the first visit -- the first time the quality of the recording was too poor, they ended up doing a really sophisticated setup for the second time to make absolutely certain they got every word. She even was able to get him to admit to the age it first started.

She could never have done what she had to do to protect her little sister without her mother's support.

Thank you for giving your daughter that same support.

[aikoaiko]

35. You did right by your daughter and everyone elses.

Thank you.

[BlooInBloo]

36. Good!

[Autumn]

37. Good for you. I'm sorry that

you and your Daughter had to go through that but you did the right thing.:hug:

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[babylonsister]

40. You are totally disgusting. Alerted. nt

[tosh]

41. Alert seconded.

[Hekate]

43. Done before I even saw you guys' two posts on the screen. He'll be gone soon leaving only his stench

... behind.

Hekate

[babylonsister]

48. Totally repulsive. Is this what the faux talking heads produce?

:puke:

[tekisui]

49. They seek the lowest common denominator, but find only the lowest.

[Hekate]

42. Enjoy your brief stay, Troll. nt

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MichiganVote]

52. Well she weren't looking for your raggedy rusted out ass that's for sure.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MichiganVote]

54. We like to velcro some balls to the wall. Guess you're up for tonight Worthless.

Ahhhhhh....I love the smell of burning troll in the evening.

[JerseygirlCT]

55. Two years?

You shouldn't regret it for a second, but I'm sorry, two years? How about 50 years?

Good grief, when is this crime going to be taken seriously?

[cynatnite]

58. You think no one took it seriously? n/t

[JerseygirlCT]

61. I think 2 years

is not enough.

[Leftist Agitator]

66. Would you have done the same if your daughter was 17?

[kwassa]

69. 17 would be under the age of consent in California.

the state laws are all over the map on this one.

In Pennsylvania, a 13 year-old can legally have sex with someone who is four years or less older, therefore, a 17-year old.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_America

[cynatnite]

70. She would have been more knowledgable and more mature at 17...

Have a better understanding of what sex means and better equipped to make decisions. I'm not sure if she would have allowed herself to be manipulated into that situation if she were four years older.

At 13 years old, she was in no way prepared to handle the machinations of a 28 year old man.

Between those two ages, you're looking at two entirely different people. It's a difficult question to answer.

[seabeyond]

72. four years is a hell of a lot of time and growing up at that age. nt.

[McCamy Taylor]

73. My grandmother was married at 13. For many 1000s of years, womanhood

was defined as the start of menarche.

We live in a really messed up world where parents want to keep their children infantile way beyond what nature intended. No wonder so many kids end up staying at home living off their parents. They have had the adult smothered right out of them.

[Liquorice]

75. My grandfather started working in the coal mine at 13. Bad times back then. I'm against

child labor and child brides, and I am glad our society has progressed beyond that.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

76. For many 1000s of years, women were treated like breeding stock.

I'm glad we're starting to evolve beyond that.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

80. The world's youngest mother was five years old. She started mensturatring at four.

I guess that's fair game, huh?

:puke:

[proteus_lives]

89. We live in a more enlightened age.

If you don't see the vileness in a 22 year-old sleeping with a 13 year-old girl. Then you need help.

Your post makes me :puke:

[uppityperson]

93. Times have changed, people have more time to age now, to learn, don't die so quickly

overall where we are at least. Not having "adulthood" shoved onto them as fast as possible does not mean "They have had the adult smothered right out of them."

Good grief

[Control-Z]

96. I'm at a loss for words.

:wtf:

[dugaresa]

117. Perhaps I was "behind" but at 13 I looked like an adult woman but I was a kid

I liked riding bikes and watching the muppet show.

The only problem I had was that I looked like I was 25 and I was considered very attractive. It caused all sorts of embarrassment for the men who approached me and tried to ask me out when I had to say, "sorry i am only 13". It was also disturbing because sometimes I felt like "prey".

We spend most of our lives as adults, there is no reason we shouldn't let children enjoy a childhood.

As to your grandmother, a lot of young women were married off because it was the norm at the time but that didn't make it right. My grandmother was married off to a man old enough to be her father and didn't love him one bit. She was his arranged bride so that he could father a bunch of kids on her, some romance heh?

[treestar]

121. But things have changed, generally for the better, since then

I would be willing to bet grandma wanted better for her daughters.

Protecting 13 year olds from adult matters is not infantilizing them. It's a gradual thing, this growing up, and more to it than there was in grandma's day.

Even so, she was awfully young to be married, even in those times. You're still alive, she's your grandmother, even if you are 90, she was born in the 19th century, which was more advanced than that in most locations.

[redqueen]

127. You know what? I'm not even surprised.

Disappointed... but hardly surprised.

:puke:

[NashVegas]

141. Your Grandmother Was Married to a Man Who Took Responsibility For His Desire to Screw a 13 YO

So did Jerry Lee Lewis, but we generally don't congratulate him on that.

We will also, for the sake of argument, assume Grandma was willing. Perhaps eager, even, unlike the scared kid Roman Polanski assaulted.

[geek tragedy]

149. Yay for child rape, child marriage, and child labor!!!

You are on the wrong site. This is not NAMBLA.

[Control-Z]

175. 11 contrary responses to your comment so far and

...crickets?

For someone who is usually long winded I have to wonder if you fell and hit your head, or if you just forgot the sarcasm thingy in your original response?

[eissa]

182. What a stupid post

A lot of our grandparents married young, what on earth does that have to do with the rape of a child? Both of my grandmothers were married off in their teens, that's just the way it was in the countries they were living in. Neither of them wanted the same for their daughters.

As to the OP, bravo! :yourock: I'm so sorry that your daughter went through that, but having a strong support system like you behind her is incredibly important. I'm so glad you posted this -- there are definitely a lot of DUers who take things like this far too lightly.

[msanthrope]

183. I'm smothering my daughter because I won't marry her off after

she gets her first period? Like nature intended?

You need help. And stay away from kids, lest you find yourself tempted to do what you think "nature intended."

[moriah]

184. And less than 200 years ago, the average age of menarche was 15 and a half.

Even now, that's the average age for menarche in women from Haiti -- for American girls, it's about 12 and a half now.

Also, how many women died during childbirth in your grandmother's time? How many babies didn't make it? The World Health Organization says that women ages 15-19 are twice as likely to die from childbirth than a woman in her 20s, and girls under 15 are five times as likely to die.

Aren't you glad we don't live in your grandmother's time anymore?

[GoddessOfGuinness]

74. I admire you for your restraint.

If I'd been her parent, I might well have ended up in jail myself.

[MissDeeds]

77. The bastard should have got life

That is what a child who is raped gets. My niece, who is 33, was molested as a five year old. She still wakes up at night crying and shaking from dreams she can't control. She will carry the crimes inflicted on her to her grave.

[lupinella]

79. Our hearts go out to you

You did what you could within the law. It may never seem like enough, but your daughter will know she is loved and protected. Thank you for being such a wonderful parent. Please let your child know that there is an army of survivors out here who wish the best for her.:grouphug:

[jaysunb]

81. I'm wondering how your daughter is these days.

We know how you feel, but what about the young lady. Does she even care one way or another ? Is she traumatized by her experience or has she moved on ?

Don't get me wrong,because I personally think a 28 year old is waaay out of bounds with the average 13 year old, but Ive seen several cases where the then child takes a lot of anger forward in their life...and it's directed toward the parent not the perv.

These are very emotional issues that are not always what they seem and often only serve to alienate and exacerbate underlying behavioral and parenting problems.

Just one old mans observation. :shrug:

[cynatnite]

84. She had a tough time for a little while, but she's done okay since then...

She was in counseling for a little while and now that she's older she realizes the gravity of the situation. She now realizes how he manipulated her. It took her a little while to understand. It was a very emotional time for all of us, but I think we all became closer in the end. She's in college now and engaged to get married.

[jaysunb]

86. Good for you ALL !

n/t

[rustydad]

82. And some times it is complicated

My youngest daughter was thirteen when she spent the night at her older, married sister's home. Somehow she ended up alone with her brother in law for a few hours. She liked to drink and was not a virgin. She also liked to flirt (this was the (80's). So they drank and he ended up having sex with her. A drunk thirteen year old, against her less than forceful will.

I only learned about this many years later. The sisters talked and decided that for the sake of my older daughters family, their two young children, they would not send the dad to prison. They are still married and have two very wonderful young adults that I love with all my heart.

My youngest had a lot of difficult relationships over the years after that but did marry and did have two wonderful children. Her husband left her to marry the girls grammar school teacher.

But he carries his own sexual scars having been raped at the age of 8 by an escaped convict as he walked home from school.

And my brother in law carried sexual baggage because his father, a pharmacist, was caught in a sting operation agreeing to trade drugs to an undercover cop for sex. He went to prison and my then teenage brother in law had to support the family, his mom and two young brothers.

We humans are a very scary race.And few things are cut and dry simple. I wish folks here at DU could be aware of the complicity of the many issues we discuss. Very few thing are pure black and white. B

[Vodid]

91. rustydad is right...

These are complex issues, and the onset of puberty and "horniness" is not simple either...and that goes for both genders. And although it is the law, I don't think it is unusual at all, or perverse, for a man in his most powerful years of sexuality, to find a post-pubescent gal to be highly sexually attractive...isn't this the way it works in nature? I'm sure that's enough "flame-bait" for my entire life on DU. That said, I've witnessed firsthand, in my own family, how this concept of male entitlement (that's really the only way I know how to explain it...because how else would an educated OLD man justify doing these things to vulnerable young girls...) Sure, they're sorta complicit within the context of being emotionally and mentally coerced--they don't say NO! But they did not really want to do it, either. Essentially, it's about an unbalance of power, which addresses issues of feminism and age. I'm sure there are better voices about this than mine. But that's my two cents.

[redqueen]

128. I'm sorry for your daughter...

as for others, having terrible things happen to you is no excuse for doing terrible things to others.

Few things are black and white... but extenuating circumstances should never be mistaken for excuses.

I hope your daughter is happy now.

[TorchTheWitch]

83. Good!

Damn pervert. Don't you ever regret it!

[Juche]

85. Was he famous though?

edit: Alright, that was a bad joke. Sorry.

[bridgit]

87. hubby's youngest daughter was raped at 16 by a 27yr old AA man...

When she told him she was pregnant he told her it was all in her mind...he never did any time

[MNDemNY]

104. Alcoholics Anonymous?

[noiretextatique]

154. something tells me no

:eyes:

[MNDemNY]

157. What do you suppose the relevance is?

[noiretextatique]

160. the poster identified

the rapist's race for a reason. what that reason is :shrug:

[proteus_lives]

90. Proud to have been the 100th Rec.

I hope your daughter heal and find happiness.

If it had been my daughter....I would beaten the teeth out of that little pedophile punk.

[uppityperson]

94. Best wishes to those who have had violence as sex put upon them. Grow up to those

who don't get that this is a problem.

[ismnotwasm]

95. I have a 28 year old son

I'd be the first to call the cops if I found out he was doing something like that, and I'd expect the parents to toss his ass in jail.
Good for you!

[dotymed]

97. At the least

he deserved that. I help raise 3 wonderful daughters, there is
no excuse for a monster like that. I hope the scars heal
quickly. When my daughters were that age, I would have ended
up in prison. I'm glad that you're better controlled.

[malaise]

99. You were 100% correct

Rec

[CTLawGuy]

100. As you should have

regardless of whether your daughter purported to consent.

[marew]

101. You absolutely did the right thing! Absolutely! Positively!

You may have saved who knows how many other children because you had the courage to do the right thing. And my heart goes out to all the victims of these monster predators.

[etherealtruth]

102. Good for you!

I am so sorry for your child. It is our job (parents and society) to protect our children; i am grateful you did your part!

[Rebubula]

109. The Polanski case

On one hand, I would like to respect the wishes of the victim - she wants the whole thing to go away
On the other hand, I would like to see a rapist, that up until now has lived a life of pleasure and wealth, get punished for his actions.

All together, I am disgusted with the Hollywood folk that are banding together demanding (lolwut?) his release.

[Honeycombe8]

173. It was not just a crime against the victim. It was a crime against the state.

If a victim is, say, very religious and totally forgives a mugger or someone who assaults them...do we then not prosecute because the victim says he has moved past it?

Or do we insist our law enforcement prosecute for breaking our laws, and to take a mugger or assaulter off the streets instead of letting him run free to mug or assault someone else?

Many domestic violence victims refuse to testify against their boyfriends/spouses. But we still prosecute. The crime is a crime against society, AND against the victim. Even when the victim has forgiven and moved on.

Justice demands it. Or else, why bother having laws? Why don't we just ask the victims...so, do you want to prosecute for that? If not, we'll let this guy go on and keep stealing or raping or mugging.

[Katana]

110. Hear, Hear

How has your daughter coped....I'd have killed the SOB. But that's just me.

[BigD_95]

111. He should

have got more then 2 freaking years.

When are we going to punish people harder for the abuses to children.

[evenso]

113. 2 years is too lenient

I'm sorry to hear about your daughter.

He should get 10. We need to stop locking up non violent drug offenders and start locking up these sex offenders longer.

[driver8]

116. If someone raped my daughter, it would take all I had to stop me from killing him.

I am sorry that you went through this and hope that your daughter (and you) are doing ok...

[treestar]

120. Of course

It is tragic when a 13 year old of either sex does not have parents willing to protect them.

[redqueen]

129. Well done, you.

He should have served more than two years.

[liberal N proud]

130. As a father of two girls...

I don't know if prison would be enough punishment for anyone who harmed my girls.

Be there for your daughter, I am sure she needs your support.

[onlyadream]

132. I have a 13yo daughter and I couldn't even imagine

having to face that. Two years is not enough, but at least you got that.

[BallardWA]

136. I just have to divulge this in a safe place -

Polanski was a serial rapist. I have a friend in LA who had a dear friend who was raped by him when she was also 13. She has since died. I am befuddled as to why her parents never sought to prosecute him. Her parents were famous people, writers living in LA at the time, the mother is still alive and still writing, had a BIG bestseller not that long ago. We're not talking Jackie Collins here, we're talking highly respected, erudite authors. They worked on screenplays back in the seventies. I have wanted to contact the mother and ask her why she sits silent now, but I guess they made their decision long ago, and the victim is dead. Anyway, I hope this bastard is finally brought to justice. How many other young girls did he rape, that never told, or had their parents shut them up for the sake of peace in Hollywood?

[RevolutionStartsNow]

180. Shocking, but then again not really

The crime itself is shocking, but I'm not particularly surprised that this wasn't an isolated incident for Polanski. His lack of remorse or even shame is clear enough evidence that he thought it was okay, and therefore would have behaved the same way if given another opportunity.

[NavyMom]

140. Good for you, my niece was molested for 14 yrs by her uncle

along with his sons. The kicker was her aunt (her mother sister) KNEW IT, she paid for at least 4 abortions for my niece between the age of 10 thru 13 based on the information we could find. Once our family found out we began to fight to get custody of her along with her sister but since the aunt was an attorney she used all the tricks in the books.

It took me 2 loooooong years but I finally got custody when she was 16 and her sister 13...also sent her sons to jail the youngest will get out when he turns 21 (he was a juvie) then his records will be sealed his uncle only 2 yrs for not reporting his sons.

Now this pissed me off BIG TIME especially since this c#*%t had the nerve to taunt after she basically got her husband off. Yes I tried to break my foot off in her azz, as I told the judge my only regret was the police came too soon....we used temporary insanity especially since I kicked her butt on the side of the court house.

Now my niece is 19 attending school for radiology, she no longer attend counseling 3 days a week now only twice a month to "keep her on the right path" she always tell me.

[Control-Z]

181. Welcome to DU, NavyMom.

Your nieces are lucky to have you. I don't say that lightly. One of the biggest insults to add to a child's injury is being left to deal alone. Especially once they are 18, that magical age when one is supposed to suddenly start dealing with everything as a well rounded adult.

[H2O Man]

142. Good.

You did the right thing.

[mistertrickster]

144. Good for you. You did the right thing. nt

[cleverusername]

148. Good job!

Some of us were raped as children by family members who were supposed to protect us--truly alone and helpless. cynatnite, I'm glad that your daughter has a mother who protected her and helped her heal. I wasn't so fortunate.

[TheCoxwain]

150. Did the defense not ask you to recuse yourself?

I dont know much about how these things are supposed to work.

[LeftishBrit]

155. I presume that she meant that she sent the man to prison by witnessing against him; not as a judge

[LeftishBrit]

152. Sorry to hear about your daughter.

Of course you did the right thing to take the criminal to court - who would say otherwise?

I do hope that your daughter is fine despite the horrible experience.

[Vincardog]

164. YOU did that? I thought the DA had to

[cynatnite]

171. It wouldn't have happened if we hadn't pursued it...

I'm not sure how it is elsewhere, but here if there is no parental support to prosecute it wouldn't have gotten very far.

[Vincardog]

172. good for you. If the bad man did something to your daughter he deserves every thing he gets

[winyanstaz]

168. Good for you. You are a good mom.

[Initech]

169. Personally I think I'd resort to more extreme measures, like they did on "Sons Of Anarchy"

2 years in prison for something like that is getting off light.

[msanthrope]

185. Good for you. I hope your daughter is doing well now. n/t