If we pull out of Afghanistan what will happen there?

[niceypoo]

And should we even care?

[DJ13]

1. The warlords will launch their own war against each other

And the strongest will eventually seize control over most of the country and run it far better than outsiders could.

[niceypoo]

3. Warlords as in 'Northern alliance?'

They seemed to kick taliban ass when we first invaded, where are they now?

[AllentownJake]

4. That is going to happen the day we leave no matter what

[MissDeeds]

20. Exactly

It's all a matter of how many more American lives will be lost before 'the powers that be' realize that. If we leave tomorrow or twenty years from now, there will be strife and killing among the warring factions. We cannot change that.

[The_Casual_Observer]

6. The warlords only care about the opium, they couldn't care less

about who runs Kabul. The cities are worthless & were left to the Taliban.

The Russians eventually figured this out & moved on.

[DJ13]

7. Think pipeline

Google it and you'll see why that barren place is fought over so hard by both the USSR and the US.

[Clear Blue Sky]

12. American soldiers will stop coming home in caskets.

[anonymous171]

15. Sounds good to me. nt

[tekisui]

2. That is the wrong question. The question is what are we doing there?

We have worsened the place for 8 years. We have lost over 1,000 Americans(troops and contractors), he are wasting trillions of dollars, war-profiteering is rampant. Security for the Afghan people is worse than ever, the election was just stolen, and we are still stirring up the nest.

It is time for us to leave. It will get worse whether we stay or go. It is time for us to go.

[niceypoo]

8. We are there so Bush could attack Iraq

When he invaded Afghanistan he promised roads, hospitals, schools, blah, blah...

Six months into Afghanistan he announced, 'OK, we aren't going to do those things anymore,' and stole the funds to use for Iraq invasion planning.

That is why we are there. That is what I surmise, anyhow.

[TexasObserver]

21. time for us to go

[MissDeeds]

29. I agree

I don't know what criteria is being used to define "winning" in Afghanistan, but it is a pipe dream. We cannot "win" there militarily. I think it was Wes Clark who said "We can't bomb these people into democracy". Say what you will about Clark, but his logic is sound.

Not one more American life should be lost in this mess. Our leaders need to get a grip on their macho "win" meme and bring our troops home. Right.Damn.Now.

[smoochpooch]

5. Same thing that will happen if we pull out in 10 years or 50 years.

We should care, but we don't have the resources to change a country's culture, government, religious beliefs, etc.

[niceypoo]

10. Should we fulfill the lie that Bush promised them upon invasion?

That the US would build roads, hospitals and schools(using AFGHANI labor, of course.)

[GA_ArmyVet]

41. I disagree. We have the resources to do it., however before

you flame me, just because I think we could do it, does not mean I think we should do it. The only way to accomplish that change of culture,government, beliefs and rampant corruption of warlord leadership is to be so hard it would remove the peoples will to resist, which means to be so brutal and devastating that resistance becomes impossible. A total war technique is very effective as proven by General Sherman in the civil war, and again by the Allied Powers in WW2. It is effective, but to be that hard and cruel goes against our culture and sensibilities and is considered a war crime. In short, do we have the resources required to do it, I believe yes. Do we have the national will to do it, No. Should we do it even if the as a nation we had the will to do it, I don't think so. We are no fighting over there not to save that country but to save a loss of national prestige, much the same reason Vietnam was allowed to drag on and on and on. I don't like war, I have been in Iraq twice, and Afghanistan once, but I do see it as sometime necessary. Fighting to prevent embarrassment however is not the reason to do it. Just my opinion. (Edited for spelling and typos)

[ecstatic]

9. Don't know, and not sure I care anymore

It's harsh--but I say we let the chips fall where they may, and re-enter at a later time if necessary (and with the cooperation and help of other nations).

[Brigid]

11. I don't know, but we'd better evacuate the women.

God only knows what will happen to them. :(

[customerserviceguy]

13. We don't need to lose a dozen servicemembers a week

just to babysit Afghani men.

Drop the women some weapons, and a few DVDs of "Thelma and Louise" and let them figure it out.

[niceypoo]

14. This:

And this:



And this:



And this:



...

http://www.rawa.org/women.php?skip=240">Afghan Women: under the tyrany of the fundamentalists

[rgbecker]

16. Nicey, you are implying Americans can do something about this.

We've been there 8 years and the only thing that has happened is more of what you have pictured, more drugs, more death.
If you want to change the way people think you better send the peace corp, not the Army.

[crispini]

22. We have NOT been there 8 years in any "nationbuilding" sense.

The nationbuilding started with the Obama administration. It's about 6 months old and already we are willing to throw the effort away and declare it worthless because the Democrats are afraid they'll lose seats in the 2010 election.

[niceypoo]

37. Reality sucks sometimes

but we still have to face it

If we chose to we could do something about it. Are we willing to do it is another matter.

[tekisui]

17. We can't change that at the tip of a gun or drop of a bomb.

[crispini]

24. No, but we can change it by helping build a civil society. nt

[anonymous171]

27. Not going to happen, unless you want to stay there for +100 years. nt

[crispini]

28. I'd be in favor of giving it longer than a year to work.

Which is all we've done so far.

The fact is, the Democrats want out because it's politically expedient. That's why they're changing their mind about this stuff now. Elections are just around the corner....

[armyowalgreens]

30. We want out because it's never going to fucking work. Have you no concept of history?

We also want out because it isn't the role of the US armed forces to liberate people of other countries.

[crispini]

32. Yeah, everybody looks at the history of the British and says it's the same thing.

However, there's a lot of history between then and now. And we haven't even given nationbuilding a serious try. This job posting just came out last month:

http://tbe.taleo.net/NA8/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=%20MSI&cws=2&rid=1035

LAST MONTH. USAID should have been in there years ago. What George Bush did was a crime and we're just going to compound his mistake.

[armyowalgreens]

33. psst... google USSR and afghanistan.

Enjoy. Please don't come back until you get a clue.

[crispini]

36. Indeed, the history is poor.

However, my point is that we have never given it a good faith effort, i.e. real development work. We are using the wrong tool in Afghanistan (the U.S. Military) but we have only just now begun to employ the right tools.

[armyowalgreens]

44. I'm assuming the "right tool" is deploying more troops?

Maybe we can start bombing more villages. Nothing says regime change like civilian casualties.

[crispini]

48. No, the right tool is doing some real development work.

Like those people USAID is looking for.

[anonymous171]

34. How about the Soviets then? They didn't have much success in civilizing that nation. nt

[niceypoo]

38. The soviets didnt try to civilize anything

They merely propped up a puppet regime. The soviets weren't famous for nation building.

[armyowalgreens]

42. The entire purpose of the Soviet invasion was to protect and promote the Marxist regime.

Care to explain how that is different from what we want to do?

Oh wait, back then it was the dirty commies. Now we are protecting a freedom loving regime, right?


:eyes:

[niceypoo]

49. Your mistaking Bushes 'mission' for Obama's

I seriously doubt that Obama touts 'propping up the current regime' as his mission in Afghanistan. Of course Bushes real mission was using Afghanistan as a launch pad to attack Iraq. Once he stole funds from the Afghan war to start Iraqi war planning, he lost interest in Afghanistan, and just let it smolder for eight years.

Rock meet hard place.

[elocs]

18. What will happen if the Afghanis do not want their own country

more than the Taliban wants to take it from them? If the majority prefer the Taliban and they are not willing to fight and die for their own country even if the world's greatest superpower is arming and supporting them (when our troops are gone) then it is likely that the Taliban will take control, women will be enslaved and there will be massive revenge and bloodshed against anyone who ever helped us in any way.

[crispini]

19. The Taliban will take back over and brutalize their own people again.

Beheadings, women getting acid thrown in their faces, people getting their hands chopped off. Barbarism.

Should we even care? Yes, any person who cares about people should care.

[anonymous171]

23. I care. But I also believe in national self-determination

If the people of Afghanistan do not want to be under the control of the Taliban, they should refuse to be ruled by them. This paternalistic bs about "saving the women of Afghanistan" has got to stop. Progressive Imperialism is still Imperialism.

[crispini]

26. It's simply a realistic look at what is going to happen.

And I didn't see a lot of people calling it Imperialism when Clinton sent soldiers to Bosnia. The fact is, we haven't given the nation-building effort a fair try until about 6 months ago.

[jeffbr]

25. Same old shit as before

Afghanistan is a lost cause.

[spanone]

31. let karzai take care of his country.

after all he was democratically elected

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Stinky The Clown]

35. They'll have a party ..... and then go back to killing each other.

Even with that prospect looming large, they do not want us there at all. Not even a little.

[Lagomorph]

39. IMO, they would go after Pakistan...

...like they are doing, even now. They can smell the plutonium.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

40. Much the same as when the Greeks, Romans, Mongols, Brits, and Russians pulled (or, were kicked) out.

A poverty ridden tribal nation will still be a poverty ridden tribal nation.

[Ardent15]

43. Non-interventionism is a better policy than our current policy

AS long as we meddle in the affairs of other nations, when we can't even take care of our own nation, we will have huge problems.

[SIMPLYB1980]

45. Kick.

[unkachuck]

46. nothing....

....that hasn't been going on for centuries....No, we shouldn't care, considering the problems we face in our own country today....

....I'm starting to believe Obama likes war, he just didn't like the Iraq war....we need to elect a President that doesn't like war....

[cynatnite]

47. Taliban already owns 80% of the country from what I saw on the news...

We should care because they'll be killing women and gays as much as they were before.

I don't know if Al Qaida will be able to operate as they did before. It's difficult to say, IMO.

Bush fucked Afghanistan so badly because he wanted Iraq and now we're looking at a war that we can't win, IMO.