Asians may face tougher college admission process, study finds

[AngryAmish]

<http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2009/10/12/24103/>

"Asian applicants may face discrimination in the admission process at many elite universities, according to data from a recent study conducted by sociology professor Thomas Espenshade GS ’72.
According to the data, not all races are considered equal in the college admissions game. Of students applying to private colleges in 1997, African-American applicants with SAT scores of 1150 had the same chances of being accepted as white applicants with 1460s and Asian applicants with perfect 1600s.

The results of the study come three years after Jian Li, a rejected Princeton applicant, filed a complaint with the U.S. Department of Education’s Office for Civil Rights. He alleged in the complaint that he had been discriminated against based on his race when he was denied admission to the University.

Espenshade noted that he did not initially use the word “discrimination” when discussing the results of his study. Though he found a 140-point SAT score discrepancy between accepted white and Asian students, he did not have access to what he called “soft variables,” like extracurriculars and teacher recommendations."

If true, is it fair to Asian kids to require them to have higher scores tp get into college than other kids?

[imdjh]

1. Oh goody, I get to be the popcorn guy this time.

:popcorn:

[Robb]

2. I can draw a conclusion that makes as much sense as the reporter's (e.g., none):

Asians don't do any extracurricular activities and their recommendations suck.

Just as likely a conclusion, given the lack of information in the study. Which the professor over and over, later in the article, says does not mean what the reporter thinks it means. :eyes:

[Captain Hilts]

4. At U Toronto, Asian kids studied until they physically collapsed.

Yeah, they don't play sports or do as many volunteer activities. But they study like crazy.

[imdjh]

11. No team spirit. College is about sports.

[mainer]

19. And god knows, sports is what makes America great. Not.

When you need to build a rocket, let's just ask the star linebacker.

[Captain Hilts]

29. "...building a university the football team can be proud of." nt

[SoCalDem]

31. & beer

:)

[AngryAmish]

5. Asians, due to their Asianness don't do extracurriculars

On what basis do you form that conclusion? Is it due to the color of their skin?

[Robb]

7. I'm making the point that the student reporters' conclusion is incorrect.

Did no one read the actual article? The prof who did the study says over and over, it does not conclude what the student reporter claims it concludes.

[AngryAmish]

8. The study only looked at the test scores

So the researcher says he did not have access to the entire admissions file - which includes extracurriculars etc. He was being honest about his eidence.

Yet the question stands: What is it about Asian kids that causes them to have less interesting extracurriculars, interests, interviews and recommendations. Is it intrinsic to the color of their skin? Or are they considered to be overrepresented?

[imdjh]

10. "color of their skin" people say that like it means something freestanding.

What would happen if UCLA were all Chinese, Japanese, or Vietnamese ethnics?


Lousy football team. Remember: college is about football

[snagglepuss]

23. LOL.

Well said.

[Captain Hilts]

3. It's reverse affirmative action. It's interesting what happened at Calif. colleges the past 10 yrs.

[Robb]

6. Not really. Read the whole article (written by a sophomore, BTW)

She's leading somewhere with her first four paragraphs that the study itself doesn't actually go. :hi:

[Captain Hilts]

9. It's a very interesting article. The comments are also interesting. nt

[ProgressiveProfessor]

15. As I understand it there is no legal definition for reverse discrimination,its simply discrimination

[pampango]

34. It looks like over 40% of students in UC system are Asian Americans.

African American numbers at UC increased from 6,300 in 1993 to 7,100 in 2008. Not much of an increase, but at least an increase. Hispanic numbers went from 18,200 in '93 to 30,100 in 2008. Whites from 78,000 in '93 to 79,000 in '08. Asian Americans from 44,300 in '93 to 82,400 in '08. The UC system has grown from 163,000 in '93 to 226,000 in '08 about a 38% increase.

The number of Asian Americans students in the UC system has increased by 86%; Hispanics by 65%, African Americans by 13% and whites by 1%. Viewed from far away it looks like getting rid of affirmative action hasn't hurt Hispanics too much since their numbers have increased by a higher percentage than the growth of the system. African Americans seem to have suffered. Though their absolute numbers have risen slightly, they represent a smaller percentage of the students than they did in 1993.

I have to sympathize with the college admissions people. I'm sure they want a campus that "looks like the society" to some extent while at the same time rewarding hard work and academic potential.

http://www.reappropriate.com/2009/10/14/anti-asian-bias-in-college-admissions-part-2-support-affirmative-action/

Our son, who is half Filipino, started college in the fall of 2007. As we went through the application process, we quickly figured out that stressing his Asian half did him no good. (As a naive white guy, inexperienced -at least in the last 37 years - in the college world, I thought him being partially a minority might help his chances and at least wouldn't hurt him.) As we applied to colleges and did more research, I reached the conclusion that being half Filipino was not helping his chances, so we didn't even mention that after the first few applications.

He eventually got into a school that he wanted. Who knows what role his ethnicity played or didn't play in him getting accepted there.

[xchrom]

12. ok -- the study seems to be saying one thing -- and the reporter

something else.

i'm confused.

[Kingofalldems]

13. Americans of all races should look at the way Asian

children are raised. I think they could learn something.

[MattBaggins]

16. I have and am glad I did look at how the all mighty holy asians

raise their kids and realized that we white people are in fact; just as capable of raising our kids as they are.

I know, I know; I'm going to be the bad guy because I'm tired about hearing how the Asians are so much better than us at everything.

[Bonobo]

21. I'm not saying you ARE one, but you do the BEST RACIST impersonation I ever heard!

"Mighty holy asians"

"We White poeple"

Wow. Just wow.

[MattBaggins]

22. Try the fish

I'll be here all week

[Kickin_Donkey]

33. You sound like a racist to me ...

and you stink like a rotten fish at the end of the week.

[snagglepuss]

25. Excellent retort.

:applause:

[msongs]

17. lol yeah they could learn about asian teen gangs, plenty of that stuff around so cal nt

[Captain Hilts]

30. Anecdotes don't make data. Asians do, indeed, perform better on tests and in academics.

As a result, they are disproportionately represented. Are other kids not able to do so? Certainly not. But we do so in FAR smaller proportions.

[izquierdista]

20. Here or in Asia?

I think you'll find just as many Asian kids who are abused and neglected, left to turn to drugs and delinquency, who don't study and do terrible in school. But you will have to leave America to find them. Those parents of those kids still live in the slums of India, and China, and Japan, and Taiwan, and Vietnam, trapped in a cycle of poverty.

[snagglepuss]

24. Very true. nt

[ProgressiveProfessor]

14. This is why more people need to monkey wrench the system

Since racial/ethnic background and sexual orientation disclosures are voluntary and without penalty for errors, its almost amusing to monkey wrench the system. Declare your self to be a Chinese/Jamaican lesbian with Jedi as your religion. The system will have to take it. Wreck the metrics and you wreck the system.

[mainer]

18. It's certainly NOT lack of extracurricular activities. It's which ones.

Almost every Asian kid I know plays at least one or two musical instruments and participates in band/orchestra. Many of them volunteer in science-related fields (hospital or lab) and may participate in drama, chess, school newspaper, etc.

What they tend not to do is football or basketball.

For some reason, American culture seems to value sports above all else. If you're a football star, you're golden, no matter what a moron you are in class. I see it reflected all the way into city governments where library budgets are being cut, but everyone's ready to commit big bucks for new sports stadiums.

This, I'm afraid, is what makes America so unable to compete on the world front. We emphasize what's unimportant and we jeer at nerds and accomplished kids who have skills most people can't even begin to comprehend.

In the grand scheme of things, sports means nothing. A kid who's a high school football star won't be playing football when he's fifty. But a kid who grows up knowing how to play the piano can play it until his dying day.

[snagglepuss]

26. Absolutely bang on. nt

[riverdeep]

27. Take a look at a high school outdoor sign,

not one of them say "Honors program best in state!", they all say "Vikings going to state-good luck!". We get what we deserve.

[SoCalDem]

32. Until we decide (as a nation) that education is about learning

we will never again be "on top" .. We view "rugged individualism" as the goal, instead of the impetus.

School spirit is fine, but when sports is the ONLY recognition that's desired for a school, we are on a one way street to nowhere.


It's a better idea to teach scholars to play a sport than to try and teach a "jock-only" to learn academics.

[Robb]

28. ...