Abortion Bans Do Not Cut Abortions

[The Straight Story]

Abortion Bans Do Not Cut Abortions


A new study out of the Guttmacher Institute has shown that regions that have banned or restricted abortions do not have a lower abortion rate than those regions where it is legal to terminate a pregnancy.

The survey also noted that a rise in contraception use over the last decade had contributed to an overall drop in the rate of abortions across the globe. The Netherlands has the lowest abortion rate in the world, while the US is among the highest.

40% of women across the world live amid tight restrictions on their choice, with over 90% of women in South America and Africa living in total ban areas. 70,000 women die every year as a result of unsafe abortions.

http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=81184

And gun bans don't cut people getting them, alcohol bans don't stop drinking, etc.

Yet so many are for bans of things....

[PeaceNikki]

1. ALL anti-choice laws should be repealed

Long, but a great read.

(PDF) http://www.arcc-cdac.ca/action/repeal.pdf

No country needs to regulate abortion via criminal or civil law. Only when abortion has the same legal status as any other health procedure can it be fully integrated into women’s reproductive healthcare.

by Joyce Arthur

The repeal of abortion laws is supported by evidence from Canada, the only democratic country in the world with no laws restricting abortion since 1988. Abortions have since become earlier and safer, and the number of abortions has become moderate and stable. Current abortion care reflects what most Canadians are comfortable with, and women and doctors act in a timely and responsible manner, with no need for regulation.

Several legal arguments help build the case for abortion law repeal. A constitutional guarantee of women’s equality can be used to overturn abortion laws, and ensure that abortion is funded by the healthcare system as a medically-required service. Freedom of religion, the right to privacy, and the right to self-defense can also be used to strike down laws. All anti-abortion restrictions are unjust, harmful, and useless because they rest on traditional religious and patriarchal foundations. Laws kill and injure women, violate their human rights and dignity, impede access to abortion, and obstruct healthcare professionals.

Solutions for Repealing Anti-abortion Laws
Here’s some suggested solutions to get rid of harmful anti-abortion laws:
? Guarantee women’s equality in countries’ constitutions.
? Collect evidence of laws’ harms, find plaintiffs, and challenge laws in court.
? Lobby government against abortion restrictions (meet with legislators, submit briefs).
? Educate media, government, health professionals, and public about the harm and futility of abortion restrictions.
? Challenge the religious basis of anti-abortion laws, and keep church and state separate.
? Change the rhetoric: Abortion is not a “necessary evil.” Abortion is a moral and positive choice that liberates women, saves lives, and protects families.
? Empower women in society by changing public policies.
? Change patriarchal attitudes about women and motherhood through advocacy and education.
? Prioritize childcare and child-rearing as a universal concern, not a “woman’s issue.”

Some of these proposed solutions are obviously very difficult and would take many years. But one has to start somewhere.

To conclude, no country needs any laws against abortion whatsoever. We can trust women to exercise their sensible moral judgment; we can trust doctors to exercise their professional medical judgment, and that’s all we need to regulate the process.

[n2doc]

2. (fingers in ears) La La La La

Do not try to confuse us with your facts! Jeebus told my minister that if we ban all those nasty abortions that women will all become virtuous, god-fearing virgins who wait patiently for their chosen husbands!

[patrice]

3. All True morality (and, hence, True im-morality) requires Freedom.

Most Abortions are a symptom not a cause. People don't have them because they WANT them. They have them because Oppression, material, psychological, emotional, educational, cultural oppression, causes them to make mistakes/mis-calculations with their bodies and, THEN, they choose Abortion rather than geometrically compound the mistakes.

And, just for the record, I personally do not understand why 9 months is such a big deal and why adopting the child into a LOVING home is so un-acceptable or impossible. But, in order to get to the point at which people are no longer Oppressed (or at least not oppressed as much) in the ways listed above, I think it is necessary for Women to take responsibility for their own actions, "right" or "wrong", onto themselves, independently of Men.

Pro-Choice IS (the Real) Pro-Life.

[The Straight Story]

5. Just wondering what you meant here:

"I personally do not understand why 9 months is such a big deal" :shrug:

[uppityperson]

9. That's easy SS. Pregnancy/birth only take 9 months. Easy peasy.

see, all them uppity pregnant women should just suck it up for that simply 9 months then adopt the baby into a "LOVING home". See?

No reason why that shouldn't happen, it just isn't such a big deal!


:sarcasm:

[patrice]

11. women have been doing this for a long time.

My niece is a Nurse Mid-wife.

I belong to a family that bigger than average. Pioneer "stock". I am 4 out of 14.

Women's bodies are designed to do this. Yes, there are those who have physical weaknesses that cause trouble and that's a big deal to everyone, but think of all of the countries where women birth babies in the field or as, say, war refugees, without much more than maybe some other women to help, somehow the human race has managed to survive without some things, so in some situations, there's an illness or physical weakness or other circumstance that could make nine months a big deal, in other situations it isn't. For many pregnancy is not a 9 month sickness, those ARE the facts.

[uppityperson]

7. What? People don't have abortions because they WANT them?

"Most Abortions are a symptom not a cause." What does that mean? Not a cause of...what?

There are a large number of reasons women get pregnant and not all are because they "make mistakes/mis-calculations with their bodies". There are all sorts of reasons women get abortions and yes, some are to not "geometrically compound" problems ("mistakes"? wtf?) but there are many many many reasons that have NOTHING to do with "mistakes". I remember 1 woman coming for an abortion who had been pregnant with twins and miscarried one. Her OB/GYN told her the other was going to be miscarried also and she could either wait for that to happen or go get an abortion. The doc consulted with her OB/gyn doc and they all went ahead with the abortion.

Was this a "mistake" on her part? Was this being irresponsible?

"personally do not understand why 9 months is such a big deal"?

WTF? Women die from problems associated with being pregnant and childbirth.

"I think it is necessary for Women to take responsibility for their own actions, "right" or "wrong", onto themselves, independently of Men."

Yes, that is what they are doing when they have an abortion. taking responsibility.
GOOD GRIEF!!

However, pro-choice is the real pro-life.

[PeaceNikki]

10. Have you ever been pregnant? Carried a child to term? Delivered a child?

One of the main problems we have with real choice is people who think like you do. I support the idea that "Pro-Choice IS (the Real) Pro-Life" idea, but you don't seem to in the bulk of your post. Abortion is a moral and positive choice that liberates women, saves lives, and protects families.

[LeftyMom]

15. How many months does soemthing have to be to be a "big deal"?

You know, the kind of big deal where you don't think giving control over to your body and allowing permanent changes for other people's benefit is a reasonable solution to a medical problem. Just curious.

[Statistical]

4. That is why I support choice....

I am personally (morally) anti-abortion in most instances but we live in the real world. If abortion was 100% illegal in all forms in the United States tomorrow guess what...... Women would still have illegal abortions. More would die from complications and infections.

Making prostitution illegal hasn't done anything to stop prostitution. Instead it has created a situation where Prostitutes are doing something illegal and thus they have no access to services, or Police protection. By making it illegal all we have done is make them more vulnerable.

Maybe in 100 years or so people will realize you can't legislate morality. You can't. Every time it has ever been tried it has failed. Even if you believe something is immoral trying to stop it via legislation is a fools errand.

[quaker bill]

8. We have legislated

against theft, rape, and murder, all of them "moral" issues. Yes, theft, rape, and murder still happen, but that is no reason to repeal the laws.

I agree with legal and safe abortion as a right. I only bring this up because your argument against "legislating morality" is inherently flawed and very easy to counter. The simple fact that one cannot prevent a thing by law is no reason to allow it. The first argument is far better, in fact women do die and died here in considerable number before abortion was made legal

[ehrnst]

23. Does the law lead citizens to harm if it's implemented - that's the difference.

Legislating against murder, rape, theft, does not lead otherwise law-abiding citizens to harm, and protects them from a known and established danger.

Legislating abortion bans does not protect women from any known danger, and leads normal law abiding citizens to harm.

[quaker bill]

24. agreed

In this case it is more moral to refuse to legislate. I only take issue with the argument against "legislating morality" because it is poorly considered.

I support legislation against discrimination at the voting booth, accomodations, and in the workplace. I find that these laws address a moral issue, and would not support their repeal, even though they haven't stopped all discriminaton. One can in fact "legislate morality", and sometimes it is a very good thing to do.

Most laws address moral issues, arguments against "legislating morality" are inherently flawed and should not be proffered. There are far better arguments against the regulation of abortion.

[dsc]

6. without a discussion of methodology it is impossible to comment on this

I have no idea if these numbers are even close to correct.

[Odin2005]

12. Breaking News, Water Is Wet.

[tyedyeto]

13. I want to see the study that says:

Abortion bans increase the deaths of women who use a coat hanger or other means of self-abortion when 'legal' abortion is not available.

I know that is what happens and don't really need a study to tell me but I would think a good journalist could get that publicized.

[LeftyMom]

14. Wow, it's like you tried to threadjack your own thread!

:rofl:

[The Straight Story]

16. Not really - because the principles are the same, although some don't like them

unless they back up their particular 'thing'.

[LeftyMom]

17. The "connection" there only makes sense to whackdoodle Libertarians.

'One regulation doesn't change behavior, therefore completely unrelated regulations never work and should not be pursued' is not exactly a logical argument.

[The Straight Story]

18. So her body her choice only matters sometimes? (nt)

[LeftyMom]

19. You're trying to connect unconnected things.

It's annoying, and I'm fairly sure you're brighter than that. Please stop.

[The Straight Story]

20. It's called Value Judgments

Someone says 'I believe in choice, her body, her choice' and then apply that value to abortion. Then they get upset when the same value is applied to a different situation.

So either they believe in that value or they don't.

People often give me hell over my stance on smoking and bars (and note, I mention ONLY bars here) and think I do so because I like to smoke (and am therefore biased). But to me it is about the same exact thing as above - you don't have to go to bars, or work there, you choose to - and why do we want to limit choice of what people do with their bodies (and I also stand up for women and their right to have an abortion, but I am not a woman and can never have one).

It is a problem of being consistent. Direct Issues may be unconnected, but the underlying VALUES are not.

[tekisui]

25. You crack me up with your insistent attempt to equate smoking

with abortion. Your argument would be stronger if you advocated public abortions or abortions in bars. And, you never even address the risk of second hand abortions.

[defendandprotect]

21. k i c k

[ehrnst]

22. Bans on activities normal people consider reasonable never work.

So the "pro-life" crowd always tries to equate trying to decide when and if you will have a child to murder, or at least being sociopathic.

They will always respond with, "Why not legalize murder and rape? They're banned, and people still commit those crimes."

The truth that they don't want to admit is that normal, otherwise law-abiding women will indeed end a pregnancy when they feel that it's not the time to have a baby. They want to believe that women are so capricious and dim that they will be led any which way about childbearing, so legislation is needed to keep them pregnant (and chaste).

Any law that leads normal law abiding citizens to harm - either at the hands of others, or their own hands is bad lawmaking.