Strong Public Option...There is NO strong public option in any of the legislation

[debbierlus]

Currently, NONE of the bills contain a STRONG public option.

The three mandates necessary for a real public option:

Rates tied to Medicare

Enrollment availability within a short period of finalized legislation

Availability to EVERYONE

None of the current bills provide those parameters around the 'public option'. Obama, himself, stated that if the public option did pass, it would only cover about 5% of the population. Weiner stated the other day about 10% on one of the talk shows.

Right now, we have bills that will provide ENORMOUS subsidies to the insurance companies, corporations that syphon off as much as a third of all our health care dollars for their own profit. This legislation SUCKS, and big pharm and the insurance companies are the ones that will benefit from it the most. Not the American people.

Why the hell do we accept this bullshit? Why the hell are we so meek? I see posts on this board stating 'if I have to accept between a trigger and a opt out'....

WTF?

If you have to accept? You don't have to accept. Neither do I. We need to put the fear of God into these politicians and tell them we don't want their suck ass legislation, we want a true solution to a human crisis that is causing tens of thousands of deathes every year and the economic collapse of tens of thousands of American families.

The government does not have to negotiate with the corporate leeches. They could pass legislation making it ILLEGAL to deny coverage based on pre-existing conditions and a zillion other scams that the insurance companies utilize to deny coverage to their policy holders without giving them a dime. The politicians wouldn't have to fear their retribution in campaign contributions, if they destroyed the beast that holds the entire nation hostage.

Single payer is the solution. It is the ONLY solution. You can't gurantee health coverage for EVERYONE unless you do single payer. Everytime you justify this insurance scam, you are basically stating that you are okay with the fact that millions of people still won't be covered even with the best of plans.

Be happy with what you get and shut up...as if demanding insurance profit be cut out, so that all our fellow citizens be covered is the equivalent of wanting a pony.

It is time to get angry. REALLY REALLY angry and let them know it. Right now, we have been caught in a circular debate over a component of health care legislation that won't SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

I am sick to death of the public option. I am sick of the endless banter around a policy that won't fucking solve the problem. We know the solution, why don't we fight for it?

SINGLE PAYER NOW

[vi5]

1. Someone on here summed it up best....

..If the people are given a hamburger, it's only if the corporations are first given a steak.

They may have been quoting someone else but that really about sums up the whole debacle.

[debbierlus]

2. It is disgusting and it has to end.

[yurbud]

12. more like if the people are given a cow sphincter

[Deja Q]

13. The vegetarians get those, yes, but what do the meat-eaters get?

An intestine, not cleaned out to get all the not-so-meaty goodness?

[Ruby the Liberal]

3. What do you suggest we do?

Both of my Senators are strong supporters of the Public Option as you have described. My House rep wants the status quo, so I have written him off.

We can hound the White House and Reid, but what else is there at this point?

[debbierlus]

10. I am thinking about that - we seriously lack organization and leadership

That is our biggest problem. We are floundering without any leadership. I think we may have to fight the suck ass legislation and press all progressives to block any reform that doesn't solve the problem.

I need time to think about how to go forward.

We need to regroup, that is the first thing.

[paparush]

48. Bill Press, Ed Schultz, Tom Hartman, Stephanie Miller are on Progressive Talk Radio

every day calling for a strong public option.

[humbled_opinion]

34. Don't stop there...

Call write and fax the White House. Tell the President to veto any Healthcare plan that does not include a single payer government run medicare for all solution.

We are the Majority, our LEADERS need to act like it stop all this lip service... a Wise politician once told me something that made me believe in him he said....


ENOUGH !!!!!!

[inna]

4. I could not agree with you more. KR nt

[valerief]

5. Insurance company benefits are mandatory, public benefits are optional. I think that's

how they think of the public option.

[debbierlus]

9. So it seems..........

[Jill_Casey]

61. NO BILL with a strong public option being considered

Where are all those loudmouths now? I knew they were insurance company trolls and yet many genuine DUers fell for the line, which apparently was nothing but a shell game. I notice many of those names are suddenly missing from the posts and they haven't been tomb stoned. They just felt they have won and aren't selling their rotten goods on line right now.

Mimeblogger

[Laelth]

6. Righteous rant.

I am not interested in seeing any of the five "health insurance reform" bills that have come out of committee become law. I think we'd be better off doing nothing.

:dem:

-Laelth

[Vidar]

7. K&R

[maryf]

8. Use that anger and keep tellin' it! K&R nt

[DireStrike]

11. I hadn't realized there was NO BILL with a strong public option being considered.

At this rate anything passed would be a failure, and a giveaway.

[Cleita]

17. Supposedly three of the other bills had a PO. What happened? How did it

get disappeared right under our noses?

[DireStrike]

19. I dont think it got "disappeared"

It's more likely none of them ever had a strong PO, and everyone just assumed there was at least one good bill circulating.

[debbierlus]

22. You are right. I firmly believe the 'public option' was put out to stop the single payer movement

And, it worked like a charm.

We never organized on the left. We were forever waiting for what they would 'give us'.

Sad and sorry.

The best we can do now is stop this insanity and demand they start over with real reform or ELSE.

[Cleita]

24. So there were many of us who were still insisting on single payer when the

PO was being pushed on us. We were being told, right here on DU even, that it never had a chance and that we would destroy any chance of a public option if we insisted on single payer. It would be all the fault of the single payer advocates so that they fell by the wayside except for a few of us who insisted but were drowned out by the insistence on a PO. Where are all those loudmouths now? I knew they were insurance company trolls and yet many genuine DUers fell for the line, which apparently was nothing but a shell game. I notice many of those names are suddenly missing from the posts and they haven't been tomb stoned. They just felt they have won and aren't selling their rotten goods on line right now. Probably the paychecks have dried up because the insurance companies feel they have won.

[clear eye]

46. Exactly right.

When the bills got out of their respective committees, each contained neutered, privatized "public" options. While the legislation was being formed, I kept warning people to watch the actual provisions of anything called "public option", as the path of least resistance in Congress was for the member to keep the name to mollify constituents while supporting something that would satisfy the insurance lobby by benefiting only their members. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8486524&mesg_id=8487835 When what I feared happened, I reported on it, but I don't have the OPer's talent for ranting, and it never got much play. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6759858&mesg_id=6759858

I'm not sure in reading the OP if the OPer is aware of the two groups currently organizing public actions for single payer: Healthcare NOW! and www.MobilizeForHealthCare.org . It's pretty heavy slogging between the corporate media blackout and disinformation campaign, and the decision of other progressive groups claiming to favor single payer not to "oppose the President while he is working for a public option" by posting info on their websites on pro-single payer actions they claimed to co-sponsor(!). Healthcare-NOW! finally decided to stop listing groups as "cosponsors" who wouldn't lift a finger to help the turnout. A group claiming to be the umbrella leadership organization for all single-payer groups even engaged in this behavior. Listing the phony "cosponsors" only served to give them credibility w/ grassroots single-payer advocates that they didn't deserve. H-N! still maintains an online list of unions and other organizations who have publicly stated support of single-payer though none of these groups participate in the actions.

I no longer understand what the word "support" means to their leaders. They must have some new definition.

[Matt Shapiro]

56. "Supporting" organizations

The problem is not with organizations which declare support for single payer but do little or nothing. Well, it is a problem, but it is not THE problem. THE problem is with organizations that adopt resolutions supporting single payer, and then actively lobby for THE PUBLIC OPTION (whatever that means).

And, yes, the original poster is EXACTLY RIGHT!

[clear eye]

60. True, true, though

I still think it was pretty cool for the AFL-CIO to try to get a campaign going of people filing complaints w/ their state insurance regulators about inflated premiums caused by excessive lobbying expenditure. Unfortunately, since it takes more than clicking on a button to do, it didn't go anywhere.

I mean picture it--a groundswell of people drying up the insurance lobby's money. Then the sky would be the limit, in terms of what'd be possible.

And come to think of it, the unions didn't do it themselves as a class action suit. I guess Trumka is not quite that confrontational.

[BzaDem]

14. Why do you think your wishes are relevant AT ALL?

You have no power at all. Your vote and/or anger is not going to sway any Senator or Congressperson. Collectively, the Democratic base has the power to throw out the incumbents and elect Republican majorities, but that doesn't get us any closer to single payer. That gets us further away from single payer. The Democratic base certainly does not have the power to elect single payer majorities, or they wouldn't have FAILED to do so each and every time in the last 30 Congressional elections.

So again, you say you don't have to accept this or that, as if your acceptance of this or that bill is somehow determinative of something. Can you please provide ANY evidence to back up that assertion? Any evidence that your opinion is at all relevant to the future state of our healthcare system over the next two decades? Anything?

Those who passed Social Security and Medicare had to do so by stepping over the wishes people like you (those who want any compromise position that has a chance of passing to fail). I see no reason why it won't happen again. But if you can provide me actual evidence or data that shows how this time, you are going to win, I would be very interested in reading it.

[debbierlus]

20. You think instituting a insurance company wetdream bill is going to get us closer to single payer?

This isn't 'compromise'. This is the whole sale sell out to the industry that broke the health care system.

Our health care system has reached a full out crisis that needs a real solution. People want health care reform. I would lay out money that if Obama proposed Medicare for All and fought against the insurers, you would be shocked by the ground swell of support. It is up to us to force the politicians to fix this problem now.

The anger is there. The NEED is there.

If everyone of us who believes that Single Payer is the solution pushed for Single Payer, we could transform this fight. That is what this post is about...it is about fighting for something and refusing to be sold a rotten bill of goods by politicians.

I completely disagree that this sellout is incremental change towards single payer. The private insurance profiteering scam is about to come apart at the seams, and this bill is designed to enslave us to them for the next ten or more years. It is buying them time, giving them more money and more power. It should not be supported as the only thing we can do. It should be fought against and a real solution demanded.

The dems are going to lose power by not doing the right thing with health care. In fact, I think the sell out of health care to the corporations could break the democratic party. It will be the straw that breaks the camel's back. People watch what is going on, and they see the corporate one party system in all its glory.

Perhaps, the system needs to break and a new party emerge. It would be much better for everyone, if the democrats pulled their heads out of their asses and saw the writing on the wall. It is so ridiculous, they could own this issue and ensure their placeas leaders for a couple of decades, if they would only lead for the people instead of their campaign contributions.

So, I will not accept it. I will continue calling, writing, sending e-mails, making videos, and encouraging everyone else to rail against this blatant injustice.

Enough is enough.

[BzaDem]

23. Ah. The whole "the private system would collapse without this bill" argument.

The same tired old argument that was made in the 90s and earlier that has been proven wrong again and again and again. Even Ted Kennedy regretted every day that he didn't work with Nixon to pass universal healthcare back in the 70s. The only thing that failure accomplished was 40 years of deaths and bankruptcies.

You can continue calling, writing, sending e-mails, making videos, and encouraging everyone else etc etc etc. Failure since the late 40s isn't enough to convince you that we are not going to go from a private system to a single payer system in one bill. I highly doubt another 60 years of failure would convince you otherwise. People like you don't look at past political results (or lackthereof) and learn from them. As long as legislators in power continue to ignore those like you who accept no compromise and would doom anything other than single payer to failure, there is still hope for this country and its sick. It would be nice if good intentioned people like you realized that no-compromisers are part of the problem, not the solution, but that realization isn't required.

[Bluenorthwest]

30. What do you do for a living?

[Enthusiast]

51. Yes!

"I would lay out money that if Obama proposed Medicare for All and fought against the insurers, you would be shocked by the ground swell of support."

It comes down to President Obama and his position on health care reform.

[clear eye]

47. How is any of the current bills a "compromise"?

When one side caves and the other gets everything it wants, where is the compromise?

[dysfunctional press]

15. they weren't too encouraging on nbc news this evening.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/#33370276

"...top presidential aides signaled that in the end, it may be the the left that loses this battle...rank and file democrats will see there's too much at stake, and ultimately go along with the president."

:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:

[debbierlus]

21. Call the White House first thing tomorrow

And, let them hear your anger.

[Echo In Light]

32. Because anyone there actually gives a fuck?

Doubtful

[Cleita]

16. This has all the appearance of being a big joke on us.

They tied a big ribbon bow on legislation that is nothing more than repackaged trash. Nothing has changed, just business as usual at our expense.

[unkachuck]

18. K&R....

"None of the current bills provide those parameters around the 'public option'."

....call it what you will, but if we don't get in essence a Single Payer or a defacto Public Option plan available quickly to all, then many, many of us are going to be very, very unhappy....this crappy life-threatening for-profit healthcare system has to end and we're not ambling off to die quietly, irregardless of the charming affable Obama....

....this is our country and if we want to provide ourselves with Public Healthcare, we shall....this legislation is only the beginning, not the end, of the American people regaining control over their country and lives....I pitty anyone who stands in our way....

[KharmaTrain]

25. Senator Schumer Stated It This Way...

In the debate in the Baucus committee, he said if there wasn't a public option now, expect a single payer sooner rather than later. If rates continue to climb and more people loose coverage, it's going to create a major health and economic crisis that the government won't be able to ignore.

The mask is off the insurance company games...no matter what happens, it will no longer be business as usual for these fat cats. There will be people watching and the PR brusing they've taken will take years to fix, if at all.

Single payer is inevitable but not in the current political climate. Sorry...wish it were different, but you deal with the cards your dealt. There will be changes...whether that means reform is depending on if you are affected or not. I expect a bill containing a clause that will prevent insurance companies from dropping people due to "pre-existing" conditions and even the elimination of their special status that makes it impossible to sue them, but that doesn't answer problems for millions and as long as this problem isn't fixed it will remain a political football.

The low numbers of those supposedly covered by the Public Option assumes that most people who are insured will remain with their current policies. 10% of 300 million is 30 million and a reasonable figure in regards to the uninsured...a figure way to high, and thus any option that helps insure these people is a strong positive step. Creation of a government entity to compete with the insurance companies will be good as well...and once this train gets rolling and people see a better way through a government system, it makes moving toward single payer easier.

Sorry you can't get what you want...but this isn't a zero sum game nor one that was going to be fixed easily or quickly. As long as we live in a representative democracy debate is essential to any government. We just went through 8 years of a dictatorship and rule by fiat...also that change doesn't happen overnight; especially when you're dealing with a dozen other major messes.

[humbled_opinion]

35. Naive, I think Shumer doesn't get it...

If they pass a crap sandwich its going to come back on them the Republicans aren't supporting it and will use the entire issue to beat over the heads of our Leadership.

Americans that continue to be disillusioned will fall for the blame game and it will never lead to single payer it will lead to a Democratic downfall in Congress.

We either get it right or give it up.... They are the only options available. NOW IS THE TIME FOR LEADERSHIP...

SOMETIMES A LEADER MUST STAND ON PRINCIPLE AND POSITION.....

[KharmaTrain]

42. When Millions Go Bankrupt

And that's where we're headed. If premiums cost $25,000 a year as is being predicted, that will lead to millions no longer being able to afford policies and many corporations going with more part time workers at lower wages so they won't have to pay their share. There's no way the cost of living will keep up with those rates and thus a crisis will develop as public facilities get overcrowded (and you thought the lines at free clinics were large now?) and there'll be more stories of people dying for lack of decent care.

Again, this isn't a zero sum game like so many here like to play. This is the latest, and much needed step, that began with the New Deal and before. The insurance lobby has pushed this to the extremes as they've abused their position of public trust and a failure of this measure will be a major blow to this administration, but to government on the whole.

You are right...many will become disillusioned (like is running rampant in this place...many ready to give up and cast blame rather than work and fight for reform) but also many will see who blocked the reform...they'll see the teabaggers and death panels and connect it to the GOOP. While the Democrats may have failed at "leadership" the GOOP failed with any reform or substansive changes at all.

Yes, this is the time for leadership and inside the beltway it moves quietly and behind closed doors...away from blog and teevee cameras. After the fact will emerge who the real leaders were.

Cheers...

[clear eye]

49. There are so many holes in your info, it's hard to know where to begin.

Obama clearly stated that the public option would cover only a small fraction of the uninsured. The high costs of the privatized "public" option, and reluctance to raise the income tax rate on the top bracket guarantees that. Some insurance reform, possibly around the issue of pre-existing conditions, is possible, but no bill includes removing the prohibition against suing insurers. What is a real likelihood is an MA-style individual mandate and/or employer mandate on purchasing what has to be private insurance as no bill includes a government administered option. As premiums, deductibles and co-pays rise w/i this captive market, there is a real possibility that more not fewer of us will become uninsured or underinsured though still paying either tax penalties or premiums. The burden on business will increase, exacerbating the contracting economy, which, in turn, will reduce #'s of people w/ employer paid health insurance. (You can't have employer-paid benefits if you don't have an employer.) Does this sound like a reduction in suffering?

Ask Debbierlus how MA care is working out for her neighbors and the state's economy--and that was a better bill that those up before Congress now.

[wroberts189]

26. great post knr

[eridani]

27. Yes, single payer is the only real solution. However, if you want to do incrementalism--

--just fucking open Medicare to voluntary buy-in, dammit!

[debbierlus]

28. Good idea.

[humbled_opinion]

36. Incrementalism is a failed tactic....

The political opposition is chomping at the bit to beat Democrats senseless with a plan that does not solve the issues. Imagine this...

Plan passes no public option great hoopla Obama got health reform.... Yeah....

Insurance is now Mandated under IRS pentalty... (to be honest I think that is unconstitutional on its face but)
mandated Insurance big boon to insurance industry some problems solved however continued cost increases over the coming years make it increasingly harder for people to afford the mandated insurance ( The insurance companies warned us they would do it ).

Costs increase and Democrats lead the charge saying the only way to fix it is thru a single payer...


REPUKES RESPOND.... DEMOCRATS GOT US INTO THIS MESS HOW CAN THEY BE TRUSTED TO FIX WHAT THEY SCREWED UP.

If this isn't done right the first time it will be a Political nightmare for our future elections...

BET ON IT !!!

[eridani]

43. That's definitely a likely outcome--IF

--we have to rely on the proposed public options which would have to be created from scratch.

However, expansion of Medicare may very well produce a lot of demand for even more expansion of Medicare. This is the only possible incremental plan that might work, IMO.

[Faryn Balyncd]

29. K&R

[LiberalLovinLug]

31. The Dems and Obama are going to painted as Socialists anyways

So why not do the right thing and push through a 'socialist' Single Payer program in the first place?

All that will happen now is a huge mess, with more power given to the private insurers. Which means a clusterfuck waiting to happen. Which means the Repukes will have a "we told you so" field day in 2012.

If it doesn't turn into a clusterfuck, (but no real improvement) Repukes will claim victory as well saying they bravely stood in the tracks and stripped out the government control parts that would have been a disaster. They saved America from socialism. No one will know either way, so they come out on top.

I had hopes that a strong Public Option would be a stepping stone to Single Payer eventually. That was the compromise. Now I see there is nothing there at all. I now feel that it would have been better to not have any health care reform. Let the problem get worse and worse....45% then 50% without insurance. Even more bankruptcies, homes lost. To the point where Single Payer is the ONLY solution.

[humbled_opinion]

37. Ding, Ding, Ding......

You pegged it...

[Tim01]

53. Nailed it. Really good post. nt

[humbled_opinion]

33. Just say NO....

I will Not support anything less then single payer.

1. I already pay medicare taxes in my paycheck.

2. I don't have adequate coverage at the moment because I can't affort the $500 a month it would cost. Employer plan is not worth the $200 per pay period it would cost me either.

3. All of the current legislation uses language that says it is mandatory (MANDATORY) that I get some type of Health Insurance some plans offer public option the Baucus plan does not.


Given these facts;

It is becoming increasingly clear to me that even if there is a public option in the final plan it is still going to come with a cost. Do the math I can barely make ends meet as it is now. So who is going to spot me for the MANDATED coverage that I must get or get fined by the IRS? Who my employer, they have no intention of incereasing my pay to meet the costs.

Why not just take my medicare tax like they do now and put me on Public Medicare? Solves everything.

Single payer or nothing just say no to everything else.

[debbierlus]

38. The best thing we can do right now is get behind Mad As Hell Doctors

They are traveling the country for Single Payer and they are sorely lacking on-line and on-the ground activists.

Here is their website:

http://www.madashelldoctors.com/

Facebook page:

http://www.facebook.com/MadDrs

It is so late in the game for us to FINALLY get that we need to fight for the true solution, Single Payer. We have lost a lot of time. The best strategy is to throw our energy in a group that is already established. One that is fighting the fight. Go to their page to see what they are doing. Spread the word through facebook and twitter.

I will write more in the coming days.

[clear eye]

50. www.mobilizeforhealthcare.org

and Healthcare-NOW!, too.

[Hippo_Tron]

39. What about the House proposals?

All of this focus is on the Senate. People forget that the bill has to pass the House as well.

[Hippo_Tron]

40. What about the House proposals?

All of this focus is on the Senate. People forget that the bill has to pass the House as well.

[clear eye]

52. You misunderstand.

The failings in the bills the OP spoke of include what's in the House bill.

[kath]

57. Yep - there is NO good bill out there - not a single one that includes a real, STRONG public option.

Covering 5-10 million people by 2019 is NOT a strong public option.

There are 45-50 million uninsured people, dammit, and millions and millions more whose "coverage" is so crappy that they would be bankrupted if in a major car accident or diagnosed w/ cancer or had a child born w/ major congenital problems, etc.

SINGLE PAYER NOW!!

[debbierlus]

41. I am in the process of contacting Single Payer Advocacy Organizations

And, I am looking for ways to help their cause through outreach on progressive blogs. I just got off the phone with Mad As Hell Doctors and spoke with them at length about increasing their presence on progressive liberal sites with daily messages on their current work and activism assignments to help promote single payer.

I will be calling political offices tomorrow.

Update soon.

[Jack Sprat]

44. I'm boiling mad over it.

If some 800 billion of public money is going to fund it, then it better have a public plan open to all under government control................or else. And the else is not going to be pretty.

[clear eye]

45. Thank you, thank you for posting this.

There is also one other criterion for a "strong" public option--being government, rather than privately administered. None of the bills include that, either.

NO MANDATE FOR PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE PLANS!

Just having a privatized public option should not be used as an excuse to mandate that all of us buy private health insurance, especially w/ no cap on premiums.

Early on when the public option was supposed to be tied to Medicare rates, the WH was pushing bills to move control over Medicare, including rates, to an unaccountable Executive branch agency. The appointees of this "advisory group" would be made up of unspecified health "experts" who can be from the private health insurance industry and/or Big Pharma, and unlike normal advisory groups, the President can't pick and choose between their recommendations but must accept them all or veto the whole package, nor could he/she remove anyone from the group once appointed (although a new President would be allowed to start fresh w/ new appointees). http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3988168&mesg_id=3988168 Just imagine what a neocon administration would do with that power.

Once we're on the verge of getting Medicare for All, one year or twenty years from now, we have to be prepared to defend Medicare so we don't find ourselves with a Pyrrhic victory.

[WinkyDink]

54. Why did we not take to the streets after the SCOTUS stole the 2000 election? NO GUTS.

[SpartanDem]

55. The House version is open to everyone

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. Just a small correction

Single payer is the solution. It is the ONLY solution. You can't gurantee health coverage for EVERYONE unless you do single payer. Everytime you justify this insurance scam, you are basically stating that you are okay with the fact that millions of people still won't be covered even with the best of plans.

No, it is not the only option

They could keep the insurance companies BUT here is where it gets nasty... they should be regulating them, as well as their profits.

You can achieve 100 % coverage with this and mandates....

The Netherlands, Germany and Switzerland do it this way.

But to do this you need quite a bit of regulation.

Oh and in Netherlands you get around it for 140 USD a month per person. IF we did this in the US, which they are not, since the pool is much larger, even with the poverty subsidies, I'd guess we'd be paying about 100 \ month... (And yes MINE would go up and I am fine with that)

[GreenArrow]

59. Dog and Pony

Show.

[Individualist]

62. Exactly!

DLC never had any intention of allowing a bill that didn't benefit insurance companies.