1345 days, 3.68 years, that's how long it took the US to win WWII..

[Fumesucker]

The US Congress declared war on Japan on December 8, 1941, the day after Japan destroyed much of our Pacific fleet at Pearl Harbor..

The Japanese surrendered on August 14, 1945.

Work it out here.. http://www.calendarhome.com/date.shtml

It's 1345 days.

Getting a pathetically weak public option for health care is going to take roughly as long as winning WWII?

[Occam Bandage]

1. The Chinese did most of the heavy lifting for us in the Pacific front. nt

[Adsos Letter]

2. As did the Soviets on the European Front.

[Fumesucker]

4. Make excuses for the politicians all you want..

I'm not buying it.

[Occam Bandage]

11. I'm not making excuses for anyone.

Yeah, legislation moves slowly, that sucks, welcome to American politics. You're completely right that enacting legislation takes a long time, though I'd deny that there isn't reason for that time. Obama has, for better and for worse, decided to work within the health-care system we have rather than exploding 1/6 of our GDP and starting over. Turning it around takes time; before policy Z can come into effect prerequisite policies W, X, and Y must come into effect, and before that commissions A, B, and C must be formed to oversee policy W, etc., etc. But back to the reason for my post.

I just think that China is usually unfairly denied credit for its role in World War Two. Like the Soviets vis-a-vis the Germans, the Chinese bled the Japanese army white in a bloody, intractable land war at massive civilian cost. The American naval campaign against outlying Japanese islands (and more importantly, against Japanese shipping) was certainly enormously important in shortening the war, but the Chinese did most of the dirty work.

[Fumesucker]

18. Legislation doesn't *always* move slowly..

TARP and the PATRIOT act being two stellar examples..

[Occam Bandage]

22. Examples, I should think, of the hazards of rushing. nt

[Hannah Bell]

50. Not for the rulers.

[1]

6. oh, you mean being defeated completely and decisively?

is that what you mean by heavy lifting for us?

you are a moron...

[Occam Bandage]

16. No.

Like the Russian strategy, the Chinese battle plan was to retreat and harass. The Chinese caused two million casualties at a cost of twenty million dead (mostly civilian), while forcing the Japanese to commit over 80% of their army and the majority of their military resources to a front that didn't diminish in violence or fury from its inception years before America got involved, to its conclusion with the unconditional surrender of Japan.

The only reason Japan attacked Pearl Harbor was to keep America from entering the war. The only reason Japan feared America entering the war was that Japan planned on expanding into Southeast Asia. The only reason Japan planned on that was that the war with China was overwhelming Japanese production capability, and they needed to secure more resources or risk watching their entire army collapse under the weight of a thousand-mile long guerrilla front.

[Fumesucker]

7. With a great deal of American equipment..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hump

[WCGreen]

9. Can't anyone take pride in anything Americans did?

We rallied the people together supplied the money, the arsenal and a lot of brave men and women and yet that doesn't seem to be enough.

[Occam Bandage]

21. Sure. That doesn't preclude recognizing what others did. nt

[Botany]

12. Oh please

Millions of Americans (along w/ Dutch, Canadians, Australians, Chinese, and others) were involved
in the Pacific Theater. Guadalcanal alone was a hell hole. It is an insult to all the men and women
who did so much to denigrate what they did under really brutal conditions.

[Occam Bandage]

19. Yes. 7,000 Americans died in Guadalcanal.

That is worthy of remembrance. I do not see how it diminishes that sacrifice to note that an approximately equal number of Chinese made the exact same sacrifice every single day of a war that lasted over twice as long as American involvement did.

[proteus_lives]

55. They did a lot but we defeated Japan.

We did what they couldn't, finish the war. We destroyed Japan's ability to make war and their culture. The Chinese could fight the Japanese for years but never could have decisively defeated them. They were too divided and their industrial level was too low.

[Posteritatis]

58. I'd, ah, dispute that

They did most of the dying, but it was the US that brought down the Japanese military in the Pacific every bit as much as it was the Soviets who took down the Wehrmacht.

[mucifer]

3. Russia did lots of the heavy lifting, too.

[Fumesucker]

5. With a great deal of American equipment..

The most kills with a US fighter type were by the Soviets with the P39 Airacobra..

[LanternWaste]

46. Less than 1/2 of 1% of Soviet fighting machines were supplied by Lend Lease.

Less than 1/2 of 1% of Soviet fighting machines were supplied by Lend Lease. Most of those supplies were in fact food, boots, transport, etc. The few tanks that were sent via lend lease (the Grant and Sherman M-4-- never the better MAE8) were rationed out to reserve units and called "rolling coffins".

The Soviet post-war saying that the war was bought with American Spam and paid for with Russian blood has more than just a bit of truth.

[1]

10. no, russia did a lot of dying... and their wwii success had a lot to do with USA help...

i love the revisionist wwii morons here.

you are wrong...

[Occam Bandage]

20. Their "lot of dying" also inflicted over 80% of all German casualties,

as well as over three-quarters of all German tank losses. By the time Normandy happened, the Germans had been retreating from the Soviet army for a year.

[Johonny]

23. You're right

The Soviet union had ~39 % of all military loses in the war.

[Occam Bandage]

24. And what proportion of German losses did they inflict? nt

[Botany]

28. The Russians stopped the Germans once and for all @ Stalingrad

After that battle the German Army was always in retreat.

The German 6th Army of 250,000 was a total loss. Rent the movie "Stalingrad" one the
best movies ever about the war.

[Occam Bandage]

31. Stalingrad and Kursk.

Two of the biggest engagements in history, and the German army couldn't mount an offensive afterwards. I think that counts as a little more than "dying a lot."

[Botany]

33. That and Hitler was like bush and did not listen to his Generals

Hitler split his armies and counted on some of the occupied nations armies
to help in his war with Russia.

[proteus_lives]

53. The Germans had great generals.

But Hitler tied their hands with his madness and political control.

That did a lot for the Allies.

[LanternWaste]

47. The successful Soviet counteroffensive

The successful Soviet counteroffensive in the winter of '41 happened prior to U.S. involvement. Although the Soviets did not regain strategic initiative until a year later, that had less to do with American involvement, and more to do with the Soviets bleeding the Germans dry.

[TheBigotBasher]

63. "US help"

was bought and paid for, it wasn't too long ago that Britain paid off the bill the US charged. Each and every bullet was invoiced.

[The Straight Story]

8. We won in Iraq and Afghanistan

We defeated the armies we set out to beat.

Now winning is defined differently it seems.

[Fumesucker]

15. Germany and Japan had massive anti-Allied guerrilla movements

After VJ day?

I did not know that..

/Johnny Carson

[WI_DEM]

13. obvioiusly the USA helped end the war but lets not forget our allies who bore much of the brunt of

the war on there own land.

[1]

14. "Japan destroyed much of our Pacific fleet at Pearl Harbor..."

that's a pretty funny statement too.

16 of the 19 ships "sunk" at pearl harbor were raised and repaired to fight again.

the ignorance of our youth is frightening...

[Fumesucker]

17. Were those ships available for combat immediately after Pearl?

Yamamoto knew he was waking a sleeping giant, he had been a naval attache in DC and was familiar with the size and industrial might of America.

The rest of the Japanese military regime, not so much.

[Botany]

25. Yamamoto was reported as said that this will buy us about 6 months

The Battles of Coral Sea and Midway proved him right.

[1]

32. yamamoto got his ass kicked in the coral sea and at midway...

the japanese got their butts whipped in every engagement past pearl harbor.

how fucking stupid are you about wwii?

what fucking revisionist book are you reading?

moron...

[Occam Bandage]

34. "the japanese got their butts whipped in every engagement past pearl harbor."

Funny. My history book says that between Pearl Harbor and Midway, they won at Hong Kong, they conquered the Philippines, won at Guam, won at Wake Island, conquered the Dutch East Indies, conquered Singapore, and successfully opened campaigns in New Guinea and the Solomon Islands.

Must be one of those darn "revisionist books," though.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Botany]

35. Can you read?

Yamamoto said that the victory at Pearl Harbor will buy Japan 6 months.

Coral Sea was 6 months almost to the day after Pearl Harbor and Midway was
7 months after Pearl too.

Where in my post did I write that Japan won those battles?

[deaniac21]

48. Most historians would say that the Battle of Coral Sea was a

draw.

[Posteritatis]

64. It was like Jutland for the Germans

In both instances one side clearly "won on points" but lost most of the initiative as a result.

[Posteritatis]

59. Less than you, I'd imagine

The Japanese were perceived as invincible up until Coral Sea, and almost invincible until Midway. If they did nothing but lose casually in every engagement since Pearl Harbour then maybe you could explain why people were still prying them out of occupied territories as late as VJ day?

You really should read a book or something before you start trying to lecture people.

[1]

26. what is your fucking problem.. 19 ships sunk, 16 raised, repaired and returned to active duty...

here is the list and disposition of every ship in pearl harbor on 12/7/1941.

19 ships were sunk. 16 ships were raised, repaired and returned to active duty.


when? within the timeframe of the war? is that good enough for you?



NavSource Naval History
American Ships In Pearl Harbor, December 7 1941


Battleships:

Arizona (BB-39) (Sunk Total Loss)
California (BB-44) (Sunk Raised And Repaired)
Maryland (BB-46) (Light Damage)
Nevada (BB-36) (Beached Heavy Damage, Repaired)
Oklahoma (BB-37) (Capsized -Raised Not Repaired)
Pennsylvania (BB-38) (Light Damage, Repaired)
Tennessee (BB-43) (Light Damage, Repaired)
West Virginia (BB-48) (Sunk Raised And Repaired)
Heavy Cruisers
New Orleans (CA-32) (Light Damage, Repaired)
San Francisco (CA-38) (Light Damage, Repaired)

Light Cruisers:

Detroit (CL-8) (Light Damage, Repaired)
Helena (CL-50) (Light Damage, Repaired)
Honolulu (CL-48) (Light damage, Repaired)
Phoenix (CL-46)
Raleigh (CL-7) (Heavy Damage, Repaired)
St. Louis (CL-49)

Destroyers:

Allen (DD-66)
Aylwin (DD-355)
Bagley (DD-386)
Blue (DD-387)
Case (DD-370)
Cassin (DD-372) (Damaged Beyond Repair, Parts Salvaged and Built into new hull)
Chew (DD-106)
Conyngham (DD-371)
Cummings (DD-365)
Dale (DD-353)
Dewey (DD-349)
Downes (DD-375) (Damaged Beyond, Repair Parts Salvaged and built into new hull)
Farragut (DD-348)
Helm (DD-388) (Light Damage, Repaired)
Henley (DD-391)
Hull (DD-350)
Jarvis (DD-393)
Mc Donough (DD-351)
Monaghan (DD-354)
Mugford (DD-389)
Patterson (DD-392)
Phelps (DD-360)
Ralph Talbot (DD-390)
Reid (DD-369)
Schley (DD-103)
Selfridge (DD-357)
Shaw (DD-373) (Very Heavy Damage, Repaired)
Tucker (DD-374)
Worden (DD-352)

Submarines:

Cachalot (SS-170)
Dolphin (SS-169)
Narwhal (SS-167)
Tautog (SS-199)

High Speed Mine Sweepers:

Perry (DMS-17)
Trever (DMS-16)
Wasmuth (DMS-15)
Zane (DMS-14)

Light Mine Layers:

Breese (DM-18)
Gamble (DM-15)
Montgomery (DM-17)
Preble (DM-20)
Pruitt (DM-22)
Ramsey (DM-16)
Sicard (DM-21)
Tracy (DM-19)
Oglala (CM-4) (Capsized Raised, Repaired)

Mine Sweepers:

Bobolink (AM-20)
Grebe (AM-43)
Rail (AM-26)
Tern (AM-31)
Turkey (AM-13)
Vireo (AM-52)

Coastal Mine Sweepers:

Cockatoo (AMc-8)
Condor (AMc-14)
Crossbill (AMc-9)
Reedbird (AMc-30)

Gunboat:

Sacramento (PG-19)

Motor Torpedo Boats:

MTB Squadron One
PT-20
PT-21
PT-22
PT-23
PT-24
PT-26
PT-27
PT-28
PT-29
PT-30
PT-42

Ammunition Ship:

Pyro (AE-1)

Cargo Ship:

Vega (AK-17)

Destroyer Tenders:

Dobbin (AD-3)
Whitney (AD-4)

General Stores Ships:

Antares (AKS-3)
Castor (AKS-1)

Hospital Ship:

Solace (AH-5)

Miscellaneous Auxiliaries:

Argonne (AG-31)
Sumner (AG-32)
Utah (AG-16) (Capsized Not Raised Or Repaired)

Ocean Going Tugs:

Navajo (AT-164)
Ontario (AT-13)
Sunnadin (AT-28)

Oilers:

Neosho (AO-23)
Ramapo (AO-12)

Repair Ships:

Medusa (AR-1)
Rigel (AR-11)
Vestal (AR-4) Heavy Damage

Sea Plane Tenders:

Curtiss (AV-4) Light damage
Tangier (AV-8)

Sea Plane Tender- Destroyer:

Hulbert (AVD-6)
Thornton (AVD-11)

Small Sea Plane Tender:

Avocet (AVP-4)
Swan (AVP-7)

Submarine Rescue Vessel:

Widgeon (ASR-1)

Submarine Tender:

Pelias (AS-14)

Unclassified:

Chengho (IX-52)

Yard & District Craft:

Patrol Craft
YP-108
YP-109

Ferry Boat:

Manuwai (YFB-16)
Nihoa (YFB-17)

Fuel Oil Barges:

YO-21
YO-28
YO-30
YO-43
YO-44

Floating Work Shop:

YR-20
YR-22

Garbage Lighters:

YG-15
YG-17
YG-21

Gate Vessel:

YNG-17

Harbor Tugs:

Hoga (YT-146)
Nokomis (YT-142)
Osceola (YT-129)
Sotoyomo (YT-9) (Sunk Raised and Repaired)
Geronimo (YT-119)
YT-130
YT-152
YT-153

Motor Tug:

YMT-5

Net Tenders:

Ash (YN-2)
Cinchona (YN-7)
Cockenoe (YN-47)
Marin (YN-53)
Wapello (YN-56)

Torpedo Testing BargesZ:

YTT-3

Water Barge:

YW-16

U.S.Coast Guard Vessels:

Cutters
Reliance (USC-150) (Honolulu Harbor)
Taney (WPG-37) (Honolulu Harbor)
Tiger (WSC-152) (Off Honolulu Harbor Entrance)

Coast Guard Boats:

CG-8 ( Honolulu Harbor )
AB-27 (Honolulu Harbor)

[berni_mccoy]

27. And we've occupied Japan and Germany to this day.

We just didn't have to fight off terrorists, IEDs and suicide bombers while we did it.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SIMPLYB1980]

39. Some of that went on.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_Allied_casualties_were_there_during_the_occupation_of_Germany_after_World_War_2

"Casualties after V-E Day

The exact numbers are hard to come by. I have read as high as 700. I don't know for sure. It took 7 years to eliminate all Nazi sympathizers.

Here is more input:

* The final guerilla resistance was not stamped out until 1948. They sniped, they planted bombs, and one of their favorite tricks was to stretch a rope across a road at the right height so that people riding in an open jeep would catch it in the neck. This could result in a broken neck or outright decapitation. The occupying forces executed guerillas when they caught them, the British used beheadings, and even resorted to taking and executing hostages."

[SpartanDem]

30. So FDR was a failure talking five years to implement a very weak Social Security

[1]

37. FDR was a failure at so many levels. We love FDR. But dude was a fuck up...

FDR caused WWII to happen for the US.

He had the chance to avoid it. FDR chose not to. All of those deaths are on his shoulders. 500,000+

FDR fucked up!

Truth!

[SIMPLYB1980]

38. Or FDR knew war was inevitable and took his

time preparing for it.

[1]

41. no. dude was a fuck up....

[anonymous171]

43. Joke right? nt

[Occam Bandage]

45. "He had the chance to avoid it."

How would you suggest he have avoided it? I suppose "by agreeing to sell the Japanese oil indefinitely" would have worked, morally reprehensible as it would have been. What did you have in mind?

[proteus_lives]

65. Are you really that stupid?

I mean, really?

Or was that a joke-post?

[dysfunctional press]

40. "the US" DIDN'T win world war 2...

it was a group effort, along with the rest of the allied forces.

it's called 'history', give it a try sometime.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dysfunctional press]

49. the u.s didn't, and wouldn't have been able to do it alone.

[anonymous171]

44. US did win WWII actually. We just didn't do it alone

Without American supplies and industry Europe and the USSR would have been fucked.

[SoCalDem]

51. How long after 12/7/41 did FDR send US troops into actual battle?

anyone know?

[SIMPLYB1980]

52. I think it's the battle of the Coral Sea.

May 4–8, 1942, unless you count Macarthur being forced out of the Philippines.

[SoCalDem]

54. You mean he "dithered" for 5 months?

:rofl:

[SIMPLYB1980]

56. That damn "ditherer" how the hell did he think he could win WWII!!1!

:rofl:

[rug]

57. It was continuous since December 8 (December 7 EST).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bataan

[SoCalDem]

60. ah.. the retreat .. I meant when we sent massive forces into battle

not when our in-place forces were still being overrun by the enemy..

[Posteritatis]

62. Marines started landing at Guadalcanal in August 1942. (nt)

[Posteritatis]

61. Roughly zero minutes

The Japanese hit US possessions across the Pacific, not just Pearl, and American forces were engaged continuously around the Pacific from the moment things started.

I think the first actual attempts at a counteroffensive by the US were around the start of February 1942 - it takes time to muster fleets and move them about in a theatre that size. It wasn't until shortly after Coral Sea and Midway, where the momentum of the Japanese advance was stalled and then stopped, that real offensive action involving troops on the ground began.