A Gateway Drug

[Winterblues]

For seventeen years marijuana was completely legal in the state of Alaska. GHW Bush put immense pressure upon the state to re-criminalize it and the state did just that. Instances of kids/persons being hospitalized for what they call "huffing" sky rocketed, and has remained a major concern. During those seventeen years crime rates were stagnant and drug arrests were seldom..Legalization has been tried and found to be of very little concern..Criminalization has been tried and huge concern.:shrug: just a little anecdotal evidence to ponder

[valerief]

1. Ritalin is a gateway drug. nt

[Oregone]

2. I believe in "gateway" drugs

The "public option" drug was a gateway to massive capitulation. But Im still high on it, so fuck it

[JuniperLea]

3. I know people who have smoked The Weed for 40+ years...

And never even tried another drug... and most of the old timers don't drink either.

Just a little more anecdotal evidence to ponder:)

Gateway drug... yeah, right.

[paulsby]

4. i totally agree. i worked undercover

buying drugs and weapons for several years. i also have worked the street for years.

here's the reality. there are a LOT of people who smoke pot, and pot ONLY (iow, the only illegal drug). heck, many pot smokers don't even drink

mj has no LD50, it is not physically addictive (although it is habit forming, like any pleasurable thing is), and doesn't orient people towards violence, like alcohol so frequently does.

by demonizing mj, we simply take a huge portion of the population and put them at odds with law enforcement and govt.

instead of legalizing/decrim'ing it and TAXING it.

any state that whinges about budget problems shouldn't be spending money investigating mj possession crimes. they should be decrim'ing it and making MONEY

[Warpy]

6. I know people who tried grass for the first time in the 60s

and 70s who asked us why they hell anybody ever drank, pot was nicer.

I also know people who tried grass and wigged out, high heart rate and paranoia. I think those are the ones who most rabidly want it kept illegal.

[paulsby]

8. i'm not sure

i think the people who want to keep it illegal are pretty diverse

recall that it couldn't pass (legalization) by citizen initiative even in Nevada.

i've discussed this with a lot of anti-legalization folks.

MANY of whom tried it and didn't have a bad experience. the general "line" is that, if we legalize it "everybody" will be smoking it, kids will be smoking it, etc.

don't get me wrong. i think pot is lame. i am not PRO pot. i am pro LEGALIZATIOn/DECRIM.

it's like fat people in spandex. i am not PRO fat people in spandex. i just don't want govt. criminalizing it.

i can also say that i NEVER have to fight with potheads. crackheads, PCPers, Methheads, and especially drunks, are a different story entirely.

which is better? a drug that makes a lot of people more prone to violence and reckless sexual behavior, or a drug that inspires people to eat cheezy poofs and laugh at dumb jokes?

i rarely drink alcohol, because i am a competitive athlete. never more than 2 in a sitting. i will drink 1 a day when i am not in a dieting phase, for the health benefits.

even if pot was legal, i wouldn't smoke it. i just want the govt. to get off the insane pot enforcement craze.

[JuniperLea]

10. "even if pot was legal, i wouldn't smoke it."

Those who would, will. Those who wouldn't, won't.

There are a bunch of us who would do it again if it weren't illegal. But that's not like bringing on new smokers... just us old ones who have a thing about not wanting to get busted:)

I have a very fragile Karma:)

[paulsby]

13. it's also so patronizing

the anti-legalization folks that think that if it was legalized (or decrim'ed, which i think is much more realistic), all of a sudden people would just smoke willy nilly, all the time, everybody etc.

if we, as a country, can trust people with frigging FIREARMS for pete' sake (and i am totally pro RKBA), we can trust them with frigging marijuana.

i mean Puhlleeeeeeze

you'd probably be surprised how many cops i know who are pro decrim. in many places, it IS effectively decrim. a lot of cops, if they catch a guy with a small quantity will have him dispose of it right on scene and kick the guy loose. we don't fear potheads. i do fear drunk drivers. i've had one academy classmate killed by one, and dozens of friends injured by them.

i'm currently on disability and have a script for oxycontin. i can TOTALLY understand how people could become addicted to it, and i would NOT be pro legalization of heroin, for instance (although i do take a harm reduction approach. throwing junkies in jail is not the answer). but marijuana? cmon

i am really pissed off at our legislature, dems and repubs alike, for continuing these stupid laws.

if national review and the nation agree on anything, it's decrim/legalization of mj.

but we can't get but a few democrats or repub who would vote to do so.

it's insane

[Warpy]

15. I wouldn't smoke the stuff

because inhaling smoke of anything into my old lungs is not smart.

I would, however, like the option of baking a batch of Alice Toklas brownies a couple of times a year.

It might cut down on the pain medication I need to function.

[paulsby]

17. i think that's a big plus

i just had MAJOR surgery and have had to take metric assloads of oxycontin, as well as oxycodone with APAP (also know as percocets) and the latter are hell on your liver.

i recently got my script changed to add a muscle relaxer, and that works much better in combo with the opioids vs. just more opioids.

i wouldn't be surprised if mj would work to , symbotically.

i'm recovering well, but the pain the first month was off da hook.

i knew a woman whose dad was on medical mj. he was a classic repub (but not a neocon) and he said it worked VERY well for his condition, at least compared ot the other stuff he took.

[Warpy]

18. Medical grass is just getting started here in NM

and there are few suppliers as yet. I think HIV and cancer patients are in line ahead of me. My pain isn't fatal and theirs just might be.

On edit, the tylenol in Percocet won't screw up your liver unless you're dumb enough to exceed the dose or drink alcohol with them. An alternative if you have to be on them for some time is Percodan, a slightly lower dose of oxycodone with aspirin and caffeine. I like the latter as I'm a little more awake on it when I have to take something that strong.

[paulsby]

20. thx

i'm very familiar with the hepatotoxicity issues with percoset.

that's one plus to the oxycontin, no NSAIDs.

i have studiously avoided NSAIDs, and liver toxic drugs in general. it's just been a thing of mine for decades.

caffeine does potentiate opioids, and i was considerign the percodans, but i am at the point where i pretty much only take them at night before bed, so those aren't much of an option.

i don't think i'm going to get liver cancer from 4-6 percosets a day, i just don't like the stress it puts on my liver. as an athlete, i'm way in tune with that stuff.

[Warpy]

23. 4-6 won't do that much to your liver

or kidneys unless you're washing them down with alcohol.

People who burn their livers out on those things are chasing a buzz, not trying to kill pain long enough to get something constructive done.

However, if you've been on them for several weeks, you might be building a dependency. That means you'd get physical symptoms in addition to the pain if you stopped them suddenly.

Dependency is a completely different animal than addiction. Dependency is a breeze to get past. Addiction requires treatment for months, sometimes years.

[Warpy]

5. Gateway drugs are legal drugs: alcohol and nicotine

Prohibition didn't work with alcohol and it won't work for anything else.

Anybody who starts pissing and moaning about saving the children is a fool. We can reduce access for children and teenagers but not eliminate it. Access is now wide open now for all illegal drugs and IMO, that's a lot more dangerous for the children.

End prohibition now. In fact, end all laws that criminalize voluntary sin. They don't work, they eat at our civil rights, and they only make sin even more popular.

[JuniperLea]

9. Yep! And another funny thing is...

The conservative types who push for keeping pot illegal are the same ones that complain that there's too much government in their lives.

Pot smokers are pretty darn passive. I've never known one to be a threat to anyone... not whilst smoking, anyway.

[Warpy]

14. Well, maybe a threat to a bag of Cheetos

and a pain in the ass if they're forced to drive. They tend to go about 20 on back streets because they think they're more impaired than they actually are.

[JuniperLea]

16. I have a very old friend...

Who was in a pot smoking whilst driving study... he only signed up for the free weed... but it was very enlightening. :)

[quaker bill]

11. Murder is sin

and generally voluntary. There must be a better way of saying this.

[Warpy]

12. Voluntary sin that doesn't hurt anybody else directly

although family systems that are arranged around an addict of any type are generally hurtful.

Victimless crime is an oxymoron, IMO.

The moralists need to back off.

[Sinti]

7. It makes more money for the prison-industrial complex

Plus, who the hell wants a bunch of mellowed-out folks after work discussing their day? Relaxed people don't fight, division is the important bit in Divide and Conquer. And these are just the unintended consequences of criminalizing a plant. They did it originally to make way for synthetic rope. I wonder what other plants they might criminalize, tomatoes maybe? Lavender?

edited for typo

[Blue_In_AK]

19. According to a very recent article,

the status of the marijuana laws here is still fairly murky as of right now. http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/AP/story/1300394.html

<snip>

Alaska has long had a relatively liberal attitude toward possession of small amounts of marijuana for personal use. The landmark 1975 Ravin v. State case established that the privacy provisions in Alaska's constitution protect adults who use small amounts of marijuana at home. For many years, possession of less than 4 ounces at home was legal.

But the status of the law is somewhat murky now, and since April, the state has operated under the interpretation that there is no longer a legally permissible amount of marijuana for in-home possession, McAllister said.

In 2006, the Alaska Legislature passed a law making illegal the use of small amounts of pot at home. That law was challenged by the American Civil Liberties Union of Alaska on privacy grounds.

This spring, the Supreme Court declined to clarify it, said Jeffrey Mittman, executive director of the ACLU of Alaska, and they're looking for another case that could be used to challenge the existing law.

"While the Legislature has passed a law, we believe that under the standard laid down by Ravin, it makes it unconstitutional," he said. "ACLU's objection is that the Alaska Constitution is very clear that there's a constitutional right to privacy. Obviously the ACLU is a strong proponent of privacy."

Anecdotally, however, he says he is unaware of a concerted effort by law enforcement to arrest adults who possess small amounts of pot at home for their own use. The Anchorage Police Department, for example, is very unlikely to pursue such cases, said Parker, the department's spokesman.

"We don't actively seek out people who posses marijuana when we're occupied with heavier narcotics; it's a matter of resources," Parker said, but added that if other illegal drugs, large amounts of marijuana, weapons, or distribution are involved, it's an entirely different situation, he said. Same for minors, Parker said, or if pot is found at a school.

"Now if someone has a 100-plant grow or a 1,000-plant grow, that's another matter," Parker said.

It's been a long time since I've heard of anyone getting busted for anything other than what is obviously a commercial grow.

But I'm with you, I was pretty pissed off when they tried to criminalize it again. Everyone I know up here smokes or has smoked pot, all the way up to the top of the judicial system in which I worked for many years, and including former governor She Who Shall Not Be Named. I don't see where it's caused any problems at all for the good people of Alaska. SWSNBN probably should have smoked more of it, and maybe she wouldn't be such a whack job.

According to the statutes, marijuana is considered a class VIA controlled substance and possession is a Class B misdemeanor. The statute says this:

(j) A court may not impose a sentence of imprisonment or suspended imprisonment for possession of marijuana in violation of AS 11.71.060 if the defendant alleges, and the court finds, that the defendant was not under formal or informal probation or parole conditions in this or another jurisdiction at the time of the offense; that the defendant possessed the marijuana for the defendant's personal use within the defendant's permanent or temporary residence; and that the defendant has not been previously convicted more than once in this or another jurisdiction for possession of marijuana. If the defendant has not been previously convicted as described in this subsection, the maximum unsuspended fine that the court may impose is $500. If the defendant has been previously convicted once as described in this subsection, the maximum unsuspended fine that the court may impose is $1,000. In this subsection,

(1) "permanent or temporary residence" means a permanent structure adopted for overnight accommodation; "permanent or temporary residence" does not include

(A) vehicles, tents, prisons or other correctional facilities, residential treatment facilities, or shelters operated by a charitable organization or a government agency;

(B) any place where the defendant's possession or use of marijuana violated established rules for residents, such as a ban on smoking or a ban on marijuana or other controlled substances;

(2) "previously convicted" means the defendant entered a plea of guilty, no contest, or nolo contendere, or has been found guilty by a court or jury, regardless of whether the conviction was set aside under AS 12.55.085 or a similar procedure in another jurisdiction, of possession of marijuana; "previously convicted" does not include a judgment that has been reversed or vacated by a court.

I think we're still pretty safe.

[reggie the dog]

21. Cannabis is still legal in Alaska thanks to a supreme court decision

Ravin V Alaska was the First which legalized before it was recriminalized but then someone when to the supreme court again and the court found that the law was unoconstitutional. People may not know it but the law in unenforcable and people can grow and have their own cannabis in Alaska LEGALLY under state case law.

[Winterblues]

22. Every Alaska State Trooper has been deputized by the federal marshall

to enforce Federal regulations and laws that are not applicable under State Law. That is how they now get around being able to enter your home for purposes of marijuana..

[dysfunctional press]

24. alcohol and tobacco are the REAL illegal gateway drugs.

when the vast majority of people have their first cigarette or their first alcoholic drink, they are well below the age of 18, and therefore BOTH substances are ILLEGAL for them.