If we broke it...we have to break MORE of it?

[Ken Burch]

We're mainly going to be going in their to kill people and destroy stuff. How does that can lead to stuff getting rebuilt?

[cliffordu]

1. Fock me, ken, why another post based on that flawed assumption when

three combat brigades out of thirty thousand people are what's being sent?

Do you enjoy being disingenuous???

[Ken Burch]

2. The flawed assumption is that war can still lead, in this day and age

to rebuilding, and that invasion is "fixing it".

[cliffordu]

3. How do we invade where we are already located???

If he were sending 30,000 COMBAT troops I'd be right there with you.

If Bushy had done what Obama is about to do, we'd have been out of there years ago.

Cleaning out the sewer that is the Bush/Cheny/Rummy/Wolfowitz legacy.

[Swamp Rat]

4. How many in a "combat brigade?"

2,000? 5,000?

Are we talking Infantry brigades?

I was looking here to find out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_units

I am wondering what is the make-up of the 30,000.

[cliffordu]

7. Depends on the branch of service, I believe -

I saw that wiki page, too..

I heard on NPR about an hour before the speech that is was three combat brigades - a MAXIMUM of 15000 people - probably closer to 9 or 12,000....

Like I said, if he were sending 30,000 ground pounders I'd be off the hook.

At a minimum, 15,000 trainers, construction people and support folks can train battalions in very short times - relative to what they have been able to do so far.....

This shit might just work....

[Swamp Rat]

11. Maybe, but there are a lot of variables, like thousands of "contractors" (mercenaries)

who go around killing civilians and blowing up shit with predator drones.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090817/scahill2

(snip)

Despite its scandal-plagued track record, Blackwater (which has rebranded itself as Xe) continues to have a presence in Iraq, trains Afghan forces on US contracts and provides government-funded training for military and law enforcement inside the United States. The company is also actively bidding on other government contracts, including in Afghanistan, where the number of private contractors is swelling. According to federal contracting records reviewed by The Nation, since President Barack Obama took office in January the State Department has contracted with Blackwater for more than $174 million in "security services" alone in Iraq and Afghanistan and tens of millions more in "aviation services." Much of this money stems from existing contracts from the Bush era that have been continued by the Obama administration. While Obama certainly inherited a mess when it came to Blackwater's entrenchment in Iraq and Afghanistan, he has continued the widespread use of armed private contractors in both countries. Blackwater's role may be slowly shrinking, but its work is continuing through companies such as DynCorp and Triple Canopy.

(snip)

Doesn't Donald Rumsfeld own interest in DynCorp?

[cliffordu]

12. Blackwater or whoever they fucking claim to be now need to go.

period.

[Swamp Rat]

14. Apparently, Erik Prince "views himself as a Christian crusader tasked with eliminating Muslims

and the Islamic faith from the globe."

Erik Prince kinda reminds me of this guy:

[cliffordu]

16. He really does.....

I understand Blackwater 'assisted' some DEA drug busts in Sandy Eggo last year, maybe the year before.....

[ZombieHorde]

5. Haven't you ever stabbed someone, and then they start screaming,

and then you get really really scared, so you stab them again and again? Next thing you know your grocery bill is cut in half for about a month.

[truedelphi]

8. So the grocery bill is pared back and I don't even have to

Use coupons?

I think I need to consider this one.

[EFerrari]

6. We don't break things.

We protect against threats to our national security.

We defend the dignity of peoples.

We train armies and help other nations learn how to govern themselves.

We're responsible.

If things get in our way and break themselves, well, shit happens.

:sarcasm:

[truedelphi]

9. Yeah, like gawd damn those Cambodians who let that Pol Pot

Guy walk all over them, right after we screwed up the Far East during that Vietnam era stuff.

You'd have thought they'd have undercooked his pork or something, rather than being so willing to comply with his wretched demands.

[reggie the dog]

10. more death will bring more happiness and peace see

war is peace, left is right and up is indeed down. this is all double plus good and certainly not double plus un good....

[Triana]

13. Going further in is getting Out. Up is Down. War is Peace. White is the new Black. KILLING ...

is PRO-LIFE and MORAL ...haven't you HEARD?


EDIT: :sarcasm: (better not forget THAT or my ass will get chewed into mincemeat in here...)

[stray cat]

15. Peace means we let them kill each other but at least we pull out

as long as we get out we don't care what happens to the people and that may be the right attitude - if intervention is not good for America we will not intervene to prevent genocide or mass murder. We should only care about our welfare.

[cliffordu]

19. That's right - as long as we don' see it on the television, who gives a shit.

I got a new ipod.

[bvar22]

17. The "Pottery Barn" metaphor was NEVER appropriate.

The "Bull in the China Shop" is a better fit.

Before cleaning up the China Shop, it is necessary to first remove The Bull (The US Military).

K&R

[truedelphi]

23. Great point, bvar n/t

[cbdo2007]

18. You think Afghanistan was some kind of paradise before we got there?

Where there was nothing but peace and love and ice cream???

[Ken Burch]

21. Of course not. But we can't make it better by expanding a war against it

and the Afghan people are going to take this as a war against THEM. Karzai is just another Diem or Thieu and that fact will make whatever we do militarily untenable.

[paparush]

20. Our Nobel Peace Prize Winner just escalated a war.

The irony.

Do we really think we can kill ALL Al Queada members? Really?

Do we really think we can kill ALL Taliban members? Really?


The earth is a pretty big place. How many acres are needed to set up a terrorist training camp? Seems like a pretty small number. So, are we literally going to police every acre of ground around the globe, employing the Bush Doctrine ad infinitum?

Its ludicrous.

We can either:

End the American Empire. Close bases. Bring troops home. Reign in the CIA, Blackwater (XE), etc. And become more self-sufficient

Or

We pay the price for being 5% of the world's population that consumes 25% of the world's resources (ie 9/11).

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

22. It's the well known Pentagon strategy of drowning out fires with kerosene.

Also known as the "Look! Look! We're doing SOMETHING!" strategy.