aren't people just sick of the lies?

[blues90]

If any politician has to lie and make promises they can't keep just to get in office then what the hell good are they?

I know it's all some grand game but a grand game completely out of control.

Aren't lies what get us all into the mess in the first place.

All people really need to do is just be who they are and learn to be better. But to lie and cheat whether on your spouse or friends is after all the root of all the problems we face.

I just don't see the point when we always find out that someone lied why do it?

This is not about religion , I am not religous.

I've had my fill of lies in my personal life, I have had a wife cheat on me and know what that feels like or friends lie and know what that feels like and all it does is make it much more difficult to trust anyone.

Then when you look at this and bring it into politics and promises they know they can't keep and do it all for the big win then why should they be trusted and look how we are fooled.

We have been lied into many wars.

I have had enough of it. All people seem to do is lie then there is always some safety net,a redemption, a way to be cleansed as in religion and off they go and do it all again. Or in politics when lies are left behind so we can move forward and we never do. The only way to move forward is stop the lies.

It's beyond me after all these years when just about everything we have been told was a lie that we even bother to vote when we know the same thing will continue on and the lies win out and the honest one falls by the road side.

[uponit7771]

1. I don't blame Obama for the shortcomings of two senators he could not legally force to vote his way.

...and the polling suggest neither do most other democrats

[Dragonfli]

6. but they did vote his way, he is happy - face it he lied to make us think he wanted reform like us.

[uponit7771]

8. Please prove with facts, not just claims, that Obama wanted it this way? TIA

[jgraz]

11. Here's the facts you requested

I'm sure you'll have fun pretending they don't matter.

07/07/09: White House open to deal on Public Option: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124692407982802911.html

08/16/09: Obama doesn't mention Public Option on NYT OpEd: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8591084

08/18/09: White House signals Public Option may be dropped: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/18/health/policy/18talkshows.html?_r=1

09/02/09: White House offers "trigger" to Snowe: http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/09/02/snowe-trigger-wh/

09/04/09: White House memo omits support for Public Option: http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/health-care/white-house-polling-memo-omits-numbers-showing-support-for-public-option/

09/06/09: White House backs away from requiring Public Option: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32714404/ns/politics-health_care_reform

10/16/09: Obama's 'trigger' stance irks the Hill: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2009/10/26/obamas_trigger_stance_irks_the.html

10/18/09: White House reaffirms Public Option not a priority: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/18/AR2009101802152.html

10/23/09: Public Option near, but White House pushes Trigger: http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/public-option-success-close-white-hou

10/24/09: Obama actively discourages Senate's Public Option: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/24/leaderless-senate-pushes_n_332844.html

11/11/09: White House Pushes Trigger: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/11/white-house-thinks-trigge_n_354380.html

12/06/09: Obama silent on Public Option in speech to Senators: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/06/obama-silent-on-public-op_n_381847.html

[Dragonfli]

13. Thank you Jgraz he also said how happy he was in an interview, I saw it, but guess my eyes lied.

The truth is the truth.
The truth only hurts those that depend on lies.

The truth is luckily out there in abundance, supporters have to go out of there way these days to avoid the truth and defend nonsense, they are becoming quite talented contortionists supporting this administration.

[jgraz]

15. Post the link, I'll add it to the list

The long, ever-growing list. :banghead:

[Dragonfli]

16. I had to find the transcript of his talk with Lehrer, but here it is, He is absolutely thrilled

with the Senate outcome. (I saw him and heard him, so I know about it), just had to dig up a link for this OP because I am sick of people claiming it is not his bill, but rather the blue dogs that he can't be responsible for, hell he loves and supports their "reform product" and is claiming credit for it, hardly a conflict with his "uncontrollable evil blue-dogs imposing these things against his will".

Transcript: Obama Talks With PBS' Jim Lehrer

"...We've got the strongest health-insurance reforms that we've ever seen in this bill. I mean, all that - that whole argument about patients' bill of rights back in the 1990s: this is the patients' bill of rights on steroids.
I said it had to be deficit-neutral. It doesn't just meet that criteria; it actually reduces the deficit..."

It goes on like that, how much he loves the compromises and how he will happily sign it into law.

[sendero]

23. Don't bother..

.. the people who still support Obama "no matter what" are merely the Democratic version of the assholes who stood by Bush "no matter what".

It's about policies, not sides and I'm more dissapointed in a failing Democrat than Republican, I expect Repugs to fuck up from day one.

[jgraz]

25. Whaddya mean "don't bother"? See how he ran for the hills?

Let's enjoy the quiet while we can.

[laughingliberal]

20. I guess we can't know for sure but if he wasn't trying to kill or let the PO die

he was doing a damned good imitation of it over the summer. And the reports were out from many sources early on that his deals he cut with Phrma and Ignagni would be held sacred. We could not know then if the reports were true but that is exactly how it came down. So, it is not out of line to raise some suspicions here.

[blues90]

9. This is about human nature and from what I gather we are human

It is no different in Obamas case. He is not above anyone else in this reguard. I don't care about position this is man made and invented and adapted to. Yet today we are no better off. If you took your car in for repair and got charged to reapairs you never needed and found out would you go back again or would you bring your car into the place that did only what needed to be done , who in the end will do better over all?

It's the same thing if someone told you they could build you a house and they knew they could not so what do you end up with?

If there were no lies no one would need to be forced.

This keeping us safe shit , has it not gotten a bit old bearing in mind the fact that we don't know if any of these wars are or have ever kept us safe and from what?

When Kerry was campaigning in 2004 he bought right into killing the killers. Well who are the killers , aren't we the killers too? Obama talked about this too that's when he lost me.

I say if any leader wants to wage a war then go ahead , graba gun and go duel it out if not shut the fuck up about it. It's real easy to sit there and campaign and talk tough when you get others to do the fighting and you sit back and talk about it.

This Health Ins is just another example , Obama has his by default so did GW and so does every politician who writes these bills.

It is just complete crap and people treat these peoples gods and they are not.

Any business that is real began small with the boss once flipping the burgers then yes he hires people to do what he did but to walk in and demand others do the dirty work you have never done is a cheap ride on others backs and you know it is.

[el_bryanto]

2. You can't win if you don't play

Cold comfort I suppose.

Bryant

[glinda]

3. I agree with you though overall. Lying is about "controlling". It takes far more

intention and effort to lie be it a politician or a friend. I don't like lies of any kind.

[Dragonfli]

4. Yes they are sick to death of the lies /nt

[Sarah Ibarruri]

5. Are you talking about Reagan, Bush I, Bush II? nt

[blues90]

12. Pick one , is there a difference ? I can't find one other than

the date they were in office and the hair style. Look at GHW , you never even saw the fuck until he was president. No new taxes and then there were . Reagan , the brand name the GE spawn great communicator . GWB, the son of a horror show who was even more of a obvious puppet and now Obama comes out of nowhere right to the top in no time. None would have been possible if it were not for a name of wealth or a grand campaign which is nothing less that calculated highly advanced salesmanship. A brand , a product to sell the same as a microwave or clothes washer. All claim they are number one yet are never bear out that claim. Ford is number one so is GM and all others just because they can say it does not make it real or true but a lie.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

22. How do Repukes get to be such crap? Are they hatched that way?

Is it genetic? Do their parents raised them tied to a chair and with beatings? I've been trying to figure it out.

[blues90]

26. maybe all of the above you noted ,

I would imagine they emerge from some sort of mindset and special club consisting of freaks who are not informed but gather their info from the ignorant gene pool.

There are many small d dems that are willing to play a similar game all or both sides in for the win.

This country is driven by the win no matter what it takes to get there.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

27. I like that! "The ignorant gene pool" lol

[mockmonkey]

7. People like to be lied to

if it conforms to their beliefs.

[Hydra]

10. Our whole country floats on lies

Everything from our history, our money, or values...it's all an illusion.

[blues90]

14. Yes it is , how does that make you feel?

It makes me feel used for someone elses gain and I resent it. I was so trusting that my wife back in 1979 was cheating on me and everyone where I worked knew it but me, his brother worked where I did. if it were not for one slip and a name I would have been stuck paying for a house that she lived in with the freak she was cheating on me with. She knew it and planned it that way.

Then when he turned out to be a wife beater I was supposed to feel sorry for her , now she is on her forth husband last I heard. When things turned out bad for her I was suddenly good enough again since she lost all her friends through lies. We were married for 8 years and I trusted and worked my ass off. I never lied or cheated. Before I would cheat I would end the marriage and say I want out and why. After she did all of this she told me I was too easy , too easy because I did want anyone who cared would do. Too easy was the answer I got. Well if she wanted a control freak all she had to say is that and I would have said from the start see ya.

[Greyhound]

28. As W.O.P.E.R. said, "The only way to win is not to play". n/t

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

17. Hey did you know?

Santa Clauss and the Easter Bunny aint real either?

[Vidar]

18. K&R.

[earth mom]

19. What pisses me off is that people excuse Obama's lies here on DU!

Didn't people spend 8 longs years here on DU speaking out AGAINST the lies of * & Co?!

So why in the hell do we have to listen for one damn minute to people coming on DU and excusing the same damn lies that Obama is now making?!

It is sickening beyond belief!!! :puke:

[live love laugh]

29. What lies are you referring to re: Obama? nt

[CreekDog]

21. Wow, against lying

And for politicians keeping their promises.

For marital fidelity.

Way out on a limb there. :eyes:

:boring:

[blues90]

24. I would rather be way out on a limb than become one of the liars .

Even it my limb breaks I can go out taking in my last breath knowing I was not a sell out just to be in some grand game the people seem to amire and accept as somehow the norm.

[Quantess]

30. People have been sick of politicians' lies since before I was born.

And I wasn't born last year.