Could Obama put the public option in the bill in a signing statement?

[Maraya1969]

[Posteritatis]

1. No. (nt)

[natrat]

2. now why would a corporatist do that ?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

4. Jane Hamsher? Is that you?

:evilgrin:

[natrat]

13. what are you some kind of dlc spokesperson, give it up

[Sarah Ibarruri]

17. Uh DLC? You mean one is either a DLCer or a Norquist-ass-kissing, GOP card carrying Hamsher?

Hell, I'd rather be a DLCer any day, frankly. Even tho I'm to the left of Karl Marx. Jane Hamsher needs to go @#$#@ herself, or let Norquist the Nazi do it. Maybe he already is.

[Donnachaidh]

27. Rahm is that you?

:wow:

[Sarah Ibarruri]

3. I'm sure this first step will be modified over the years nt

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

8. The only way the Reshits will take over power is if we listen to anti-Obama assholes like Hamsher

and her handful of whiny lefties (countable on one hand), who did absolutely fucking nothing during the decades of nazi Repuke domination that brought us to the current depression, but are now sabotaging our democratic president.

All those lazy ass whiners can kiss my big, fat ass and go to hell.

[NYC_SKP]

9. + 1 n/t

[AndyA]

14. -1.

Hamsher is not the problem here.

The problem is the Dems in Congress who are forcing people to pay an additional expense that in many instances they can't afford. There are no cost controls or competition to keep premiums down, so the insurance companies will still make a fortune.

This will happen before anyone sees much benefit from the health care "reform" so people will be angry at having to pay more for something they can't see or use. This will be taken out on Dems in 2010 and 2012. They could not have made a better case for the Republicans if they'd tried.

Obama has not led this issue at all. His office demands leadership and he has failed to lead. This has also contributed to the bad bills we currently have.

The only reason the Republicans are making ground on this is because the Democrats have left the front door wide open for them to do so, and even laid down the welcome mat for the GOP.

The Dems need to be screaming how the current problems are the hangover from the GOP's Roman Holiday of 2001-2008, but they aren't. And by sending more troops to Afghanistan and failing to get everyone out of Iraq on schedule, both of those wars are now Obama's wars.

Dumb, stupid moves on the part of Democrats. Hamsher is the least of their worries.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

19. Wrong. The only problem is the handful of GOPers posing as libs, like Hamsher

and her handful of asshole followers. Anyone who attacks Obama is a shithead to begin with. Anyone who attacks Obama and aligns with a Nazi, Republican piece of sociopathic shit like Norquist, is a card-carrying GOPer.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

31. get bent n/t

[AndyA]

32. Uh-huh.

:eyes:

You're really giving Hamsher more credit than she deserves.

When the President of the United States LIES to get votes, there's a problem. If you can't trust the President to do what he says he's going to do, the game is over.

The GOP is what it is. They may pretend to be something else, but their actions over the years have revealed what they are to all but the most devoted Kool-Aid drinker. Those who support Obama regardless of what he does are just as bad as the Bush Bushies, who thought he was some kind of God.

Obama has made mistakes. He and the Dems (and all Democrats in this country) are going to pay the price for his stupidity if he doesn't get his shit together soon.

Really, if the Democrats' "only problem" was Hamsher and her "handful of asshole followers" (as you put it), there wouldn't really be much of a problem. The problem right now begins at the very top: The White House.

Deal with it.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

33. Anti-Obamaites are GOP and can go fuck themselves.

It's now crystal clear how GOP they are. Norquist must be a happy, joyful shithead to be so loved by Hamsher and the "allegedly lib" anti-Obama freaks.

[AndyA]

34. You just proved my point.

By grouping everyone who doesn't approve 100% of Obama as being GOP, you have shown how unrealistic you are. I dare say that some who have problems with Obama now likely did far more than you to get him elected.

And you also lost me. When someone must resort to insults to respond, they no longer deserve any credibility whatsoever.

Get help. Really. :eyes:

[Sarah Ibarruri]

35. Anyone who spends their time attacking their own, is a sick sh*thead

One doesn't have to be an Einstein to figure it out.

[natrat]

15. uh oh the rahm loving dlc unrec crew has its orders and is out in force today,loser

[customerserviceguy]

16. Nope, there's one other way

The level of dispiritedness among progressive voters is higher than I've ever seen it. All we have to do is have a sizable minority of them refuse to vote for Blue Doggish-leaning representatives in swing districts, and the Repukes get their way.

It's a very real possibility. While the Rethugs who get elected to those seats would be nominally more moderate than the hard reich wing, they will undoubtedly be persuaded that overthrowing HCR is the key to getting what they want from the senior GOP leadership.

This whole process of HCR formation is what may well sink the Democratic majorities in at least the House, and possibly the Senate. Obama will not be on the ballot, we've seen where that is the case, there is not enough Democratic support to elect Democratic candidates who are down the ballot.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

22. The only dispirited around here are the assholes who were supporting Norquist

and now got their ass caught in the door.

Instead of attacking Repugnicans during the past few decades, and attacking them now, the "dispirited," Norquist-loving Hamsherites have been attacking Obama, the only man who managed in the HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA to even get at all close to any kind of insurance of any kind that would be more inclusive.

After decades of Hamsherites and her handful of Herr Norquist followers doing absolutely nothing to destroy Repukes, but trying to destroy Obama, all I have to say is they can all go kiss my big fat behind and go die somewhere.

Lazy ass, GOP-supporting scum.

[customerserviceguy]

39. I really don't give a hoot about Norquist, Hamsher or Emmanuel

and frankly, had to Google News the above names to figure out what you're talking about.

It would be worth the risk if the HCR bill even as it is (I guarantee it will get worse after the conference committee) were a good bill. Everything from the way it was cooked up to who gets taxed or penalized from it will be blown before our eyes in the next eleven months.

Cynical? Yeah, I'm cynical. I know what's coming over the next several months, most people here who think that anything labeled HCR is praiseworthy are as clueless as Darth Cheney saying that the Iraqis will welcome us as liberators. The Repukes were going to criticize us anyway, now they will be able to do so over a really bad bill.

[pnwmom]

12. This is a racist post. You shouldn't have to ask why. n/t

[customerserviceguy]

20. Yeah, I considered that

and I sure hoped that people would relate to the story, without simply labeling it racist.

Perhaps you can think of a similar story that would have been preferable to use in it's place. I think that the idea that holding on to something not important, that gets you trapped or stuck is a good metaphor for how President Obama will deal with a majority Rethug Congress when it comes to war.

[pnwmom]

23. Most people don't know the specific stories. But they do have the IMAGE

firmly in their mind. You shouldn't use it.

[customerserviceguy]

37. Again, do you have an alternative story

where the refusal to let go of something trivial caused someone to do something that was not in their best interests? I trust that the people who read my words would be able to use the same computer to look the story up, and see what it says and how it relates.

If you're right, then we ought to go to the libraries, video stores, etc., gather up all the copies of Curious George and burn them.

[Walk away]

24. I agree. The PO was the only thing keeping the rest of the bill safe...

or at least the 55 yr or older buy in as the start of a full population buy in to medicare. If you gave the American people those things they would never give them up. It's why the pukes can't get rid of Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid. People know a good thing when they experience it.

Without that first step there is no good thing for most Americans. Especially the majority of active voters. Without them the gop will take this thing apart brick by brick in a few years.

[WeDidIt]

5. No, but the Congress could put it into any budget

So there's your opening.

Because of the Exchange coming into existance from the HCR bill, a public option is a simple budget line away from coming into existance.

So now all we need is a Senate brave enough to do it.

[pnwmom]

10. They could stick it into a Defense Appropriations bill!

The Rethugs love to vote for those.

[mmonk]

7. The reason some progressives voted for the Senate Bill even though

they want one or some public alternative was to attempt to do so one last time while reconciling the House and Senate Bills and force Obama into signing one that does.

[pnwmom]

11. Signing statements have been used to say the President doesn't accept part of a bill,

not that he is adding to it.

[ThomWV]

18. Signing statements are instructions from the boss to the Agencies, not appropriations

The President can direct the heads of his Agencies to do things his way, but they are still limited in scope to those things which the Congress authorized and provided funds for.

[freddie mertz]

21. The fight now moves to reconciliation. This is not over (yet).

I've given up on Obama, but there are progressives in the House who might, just might be persuaded to take up the cause in 11th hour.

Instead of sniping at each other, I suggest we keep our eyes on what unites us: getting this bad legislation changed into something better., if we can.

[mmonk]

25. You are lucid and get what is going on.

I've been trying around here to make those points. If the pressure can be switched to being on Obama, Emanuel, and the centrists in the 11th hour instead of where it has been, there is a chance something salable can come out of all this.

[freddie mertz]

28. Agreed. Stop obsessing about Hamsher and Norquist and unrecs and other nonsense.

And keep your eye on the ball.

Right now, the ball is reconciliation.

[hughee99]

26. He could put it in, if it didn't require any money...

but you can't budget for it in a singing statement.

[Mike Nelson]

29. He could make some bold statement about supporting PO

but he won't

[Davis_X_Machina]

30. Another DU'er.

...who walked out of the voting booth muttering to themselves "Now we've got our Bush, dammit, and the son-of-a-bitch better start breaking shit." Their number is legion.

When you elect a former con-law professor President, he doesn't break shit.

[burning rain]

36. I'd like to see the House conferees insist on a public option....

and tell Democratic senators snivelling that they can't get 60 votes with it, to toughen up and pass it with the "nuclear option."

[Cleita]

38. He could lower the age of eligibility for Medicare in a signing statement which would be

a start, but he won't. His health guru, Dr. Zeke Emmanuel, Rahms bro, is 100% corporate when it comes to health care and these are the advisors Obama is listening to these days.

[FLDCVADem]

40. I'd be very surprised if he could legally lower the Medicare

age in a signing statement. To do so would requirem funding, and that will have to come from Congress.

[Cleita]

41. I don't know myself but

Thom Hartmann once mentioned on his show that it was possible. There was the provision in the bill that they stripped out that seniors between the ages of 55 and 65 could buy into it. I believe that's how they took care of the funding problem. Maybe some one who knows about how these signing statements work could weigh in, however, it's a moot idea anyway because I'm 99% sure that Obama wouldn't for the reasons I stated above.