As long as my kids aren't in Iraq, I couldn't give a rats ass what happens....

[Postman]

This is the sentiment of a majority of the country.

As long as it's someone else's kid getting killed, I'm just going to keep on going shopping, watching movies, going to work, going on vacation...just don't bother me with all that Washington blather and nonsense, politics is boring.......I don't have time to get involved....

If there were a Draft, that would change. Quickly.

[BOSSHOG]

1. You are absolutely right

My brother in law, a big bush supporter and war supporter thought the war was really cool four years ago when his son was in the eighth grade. No mention of it now.

I'm all for a draft with no exceptions except bonafide medical reasons.

[genie_weenie]

7. Any draft this government pushed through would

have so many exemptions Mitt would be able to get all 5 of his sons deferred for a different rationale. while ensuring enough "other folks" continue to be feed into the grinder.

http://tbogg.blogspot.com/2007/04/five-not-for-fighting-willard-mitt.html

[pnwmom]

21. Tell that to the 50,000+ families of soldiers who died in Vietnam.

A draft only helped that war to continue for several years more than it would have without one.

[BOSSHOG]

26. I would want the draft

used as a tool to prevent war, to make it perfectly clear that no one would be exempt from getting slaughtered in some other country including the young republican pukes in college. I think it would give war mongers (usually those who have no desire to get themselves dirty in a war) pause before waving their flags and shaking their fists if they knew their ass would be on the next plane to over there.

[pnwmom]

29. In the last few years of Vietnam we didn't exempt college students anymore

even though South Vietnam was still exempting their own college students.

We still lost tens of thousands more soldiers before the war ended. It's delusional to think that a massive draft would have the effect of ending the war -- it would just supply more cannon fodder for Bush, and fuel his dreams of bringing the whole Middle East under his control.

As the mother of two young sons, I highly resent the comments of those who want to turn them into pawns in their political games. Where did you get the idea that Republicans are the only ones who don't want their sons to be involved in this insane war?

[BOSSHOG]

30. There is quite a difference between the two

Republicans want war but want someone else to fight it. Quite a big difference there. I don't want anyone to go however if bush is going to fire up the base with warmongering and be supported by those who think they love warfare then those people oughto have skin in the game.

[pnwmom]

40. If you think there should be a draft that exempts no one,

does that mean you're prepared to serve yourself?

[BOSSHOG]

41. I appreciate your asking

I spent 24 years in the Navy and I served one tour in a combat zone. I think the experts call that perspective. And I was not drafted, I volunteered in 1972, much to the angst of my father who served 20 years in the Navy. NO, I'm not prepared now; because I was prepared then, and I did serve myself.

[Bitwit1234]

2. Most on this list might not be old enough.

to remember, but, the protests were daily and tremendous...why, because of the draft.

[pnwmom]

22. I'm old enough to remember. And it took more than 50,000 deaths

of Americans before those protests made any difference. Even then, I think Nixon's legal troubles had more to do with ending the war than the protests did.

[Carolina]

33. I remember them well

and participated in many. That's exactly why I'm for a draft and I DO have a draft age son.

If the SACRIFICE of this mess had to be shared by the pro-war, pro-Bush crowd, there'd be huge opposition and the media lapdogs couldn't ignore it.

War is easy whenh YOU don't have to fight it. Affixing a friggin yellow ribbon or flag to your car supporting the troops is easy and meaningless. That's as much as these warmongers do. Time for them to feel the pain ...

[pnorman]

3. Here's a good example of that thinking, from s few years ago:

Parent-trap snares recruiters
The tune changes at some homes when they hear 'sign here'

Thursday, August 11, 2005
By Jack Kelly, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Staff Sgt. Jason Rivera, 26, a Marine recruiter in Pittsburgh, went to the home of a high school student who had expressed interest in joining the Marine Reserve to talk to his parents.

It was a large home in a well-to-do suburb north of the city. Two American flags adorned the yard. The prospect's mom greeted him wearing an American flag T-shirt.

"I want you to know we support you," she gushed.

Rivera soon reached the limits of her support.

"Military service isn't for our son. It isn't for our kind of people," she told him.
*
*
*

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05223/552161.stm

pnorman

[Madspirit]

4. Are you saying

Are you saying that because I do care about the war I should no longer go shopping, watch movies, go to work or go on vacation?

Hmm...and I do remember the draft...
Lee

[Firespirit]

5. So, make the kids die because of their parents' beliefs? /nt

[Postman]

6. What are you talking about?

I'm saying most people don't have skin in the game so their interest is limited and their actions are few...

[Firespirit]

11. That position disregards the lives of the kids

The kids are not their parents' property. Sparking the parents' "interest" in the war does not supersede the kids' rights. Besides, the young generation is already strongly against the war and against Bush. Why should they suffer and die because some of them have idiot parents?

I get very tired of the calls for a draft in order to make a political point. It's immoral to involve people's lives in political games, whether it is our side or the repukes who do it.

[HughBeaumont]

13. I think one pro-drafter on here once said, and I remember this,

I'm paraphrasing: "the worst thing in the world you can do is destroy a child's dreams and hopes."

Well, I think, just MAYBE, potentially sending peaceful innocent kids to get butchered in the sand because an uncaring neo-clown who gives not one damn about Serf opinion might accomplish just that.

"Funny thing about fishing, it never works out so well for the bait." - National Treasure

[pnwmom]

23. Their actions don't get reported by the media when they do happen.

Haven't you noticed that?

[BOSSHOG]

8. Most likely a bizarre example

but if there were a caveat that if war were declared by congress with the president in agreement, all children, grandchildren and ancillary of age relatives of those in congress and the white house and the supreme court would automatically be conscripted, the "parents" might change their "beliefs" in a hurry.

[pampango]

28. The pro-drafters might want to consider drafting pets, as well.

They want to motivate adults to care by drafting their children, but what about those adults who don't have children, but do have pets. Drafting their pets would force them to care, too. ;)

You could argue that pets are not responsible for wars, but you could make the same argument for 18 years olds.

[HughBeaumont]

9. If there were a draft, you'd see a bloodbath HERE and in Iraq.

According to the terms some have been drawing up in this politically suicidal manouver, you wouldn't just be stopping 18-year-old lives dead in their tracks, you'd be stopping college graduates and established families as well.

How many layers of Blackguard and police would be needed to protect the Failure Fuhrer and The Snarl from being forced to resign? From Condi and Rove being led out in cuffs? This place would look like South America.

Personally, I'm against a draft, simply because I don't believe in giving my life to a country that taxes the shit out of me and others, yet allows 46 million people to go without health insurance, spends damned near ZILCH on what we NEED to spend money on, gives the castle keys, welfare and tax breaks to the ultra-wealthy and corporations that offshore jobs and pours all of that tax booty in a worthless failure of a bloodbath that's only designed to make more money for American corporations. You start correcting that and the nearly 9-trillion dollar national debt and then we'll start talking about "skin in da game". You stop rigging the political system so my choices are a rich pro-war, pro-free-trade Republican versus a rich pro-war, pro-Corporate Dem and then we'll talk. No Iraqi ever did anything to me or my family.

America needs to break it's addiction with militarism and the Republican/moderate presidents that go tits up for the industries that benefit from occupation. Our military could be put to far better use here. We also need to get back our spirit of volunteering and charity.

[HughBeaumont]

10. Also -

. . . to people who resigned themselves that a draft is needed to make people care: does this mean that you've accepted that peace simply isn't possible nowadays? Or is it that we're pretty much ALL accepting of the theory that corporations wouldn't allow peace for too long a time, simply because war (using OTHER people's money, not theirs) is too profitable a venture to pass up, no matter if it's just or not?

[Mr. Ected]

12. Start By Drafting All the Young Republicans From Campuses Nationwide

They're young, able-bodied, and support this "war". They're ringers for the GOP War Machine.

[damntexdem]

14. It's not the sentiment of a majority of the country.

A majority wants the U.S. out.

[bowens43]

15. Nonsense.

I don't believe thais for a minute.

[Javaman]

16. Why is it the ones that want the draft or agree to having one

are the same ones that don't have to serve?

I'm 43. I hate this war, but I would be damned to allow anyone to start a draft.

I understand the whole concept about "everyone would have to serve" but you know what? that is such complete and utter bullshit.

as long as there have been drafts, there are always people who find a way not to serve.

So thinking that a mythical version of an all inclusive draft exists, I have a bridge to sell you.

How about the novel approach of just ending the war?

[Solly Mack]

17. I agree

with everything you've said...even the age is right :)

[Book Lover]

18. Thank you, sir

I have to wonder about people who assert that it is possible for there to be a draft where everyone called must service. That both cannot happen and will never happen. Are there no students of simple human behavior here?

[Postman]

19. I'm not advocating FOR a Draft....

If I led you on to that line of thinking, I want to clarify.

The govt has learned how to keep the public at large disengaged from foreign policy.

Unfortunately, not enough of the right kind of people are dead to end the madness, if indeed it is dead bodies that motivate politicians to end wars.

What will it take to end the occupation of Iraq? Are they ever leaving?

[pnwmom]

24. They're running out the clock. There will be a huge mess in Iraq

whenever we leave, and the Bush administration doesn't want it to happen on their watch.

[SammyWinstonJack]

34. ..

:thumbsup: :applause:

[pnwmom]

20. More than 50,000 soldiers died in Vietnam, a war that had a draft.

All the draft did is allow the war to go on even longer than it would have. That's why we got rid of the draft after that war -- to not put that kind of power into another president's hands.

Those who don't learn from history, are condemned to repeat its mistakes. A draft is NO SOLUTION to ending war.

[trumad]

25. a majority of the country?

what polls are you looking at?

[bdamomma]

27. this seems to be a question that keeps coming up

resuming the draft, but why should they if they have their privatized death squads in Iraq. They know if they call a draft then will people get in the streets in mass.

[Carolina]

31. Touche

Every time I see a young man driving an SUV with a Bush/Cheney '04 sticker still affixed to it
(there are a lot in SC), I mutter: if your ass were in Iraq, you'd think differently.

[Junkdrawer]

32. Here's what Jon Stewart said last night to Bill Moyers:

JON STEWART: But war that hasn't affected us here, in the way that you would imagine a five-year war would affect a country. I think that's why they're so really — here's the disconnect. It's sort of this odd and I've always had this problem with the rationality of it. That the President says, "We are in the fight for a way of life. This is the greatest battle of our generation, and of the generations to come. "And, so what I'm going to do is you know, Iraq has to be won, or our way of life ends, and our children and our children's children all suffer. So, what I'm gonna do is send 10,000 more troops to Baghdad."

So, there's a disconnect there between — you're telling me this is fight of our generation, and you're going to increase troops by 10 percent. And that's gonna do it. I'm sure what he would like to do is send 400,000 more troops there, but he can't, because he doesn't have them. And the way to get that would be to institute a draft. And the minute you do that, suddenly the country's not so damn busy anymore. And then they really fight back, and then the whole thing falls apart. So, they have a really delicate balance to walk between keeping us relatively fearful, but not so fearful that we stop what we're doing and really examine how it is that they've been waging this.


http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/04272007/transcript1.html

[Cabcere]

37. Wow. As usual, Stewart nailed it...

That's brilliant - thanks for sharing! :hi:

[Toots]

35. I would want a draft to be put into place in the event America goes to war

The very moment the first shot get fired a draft should be put into effect and ended the moment our troops come home....We should not have a permanent draft as we had in the past...In fact according to our Constitution we should not even have a standing Army or Navy. Only Militias ready to form into an Army when need developes.

[SarahB]

36. It's a lot easier to say when one doesn't have boys who'll have to go over.

Many of us are active progressives AND parents of boys. My husband and I have four together. Sorry, my boys aren't going to be cannon fodder to prove a point.

[Orsino]

38. I would not permit myself to be drafted by this corrupt government.

Imagine what it would do when it could conscript all the troops it wanted.

[MedleyMisty]

39. My husband isn't quite old enough to not be drafted yet.

Do you have loved ones in the 18-26 age range that you'd be willing to sacrifice?