No one here needs liberating, they say

[bigtree]

An Afghan man raises his hands as requested by U.S. Marines, not seen, as armored vehicles are seen in the background in Marjah, Afghanistan, Wednesday, Feb. 17, 2010 (AP Photo/Altaf Qadri)


MARJAH, Afghanistan — The Taliban's white flag no longer flies over villages across this militant stronghold. Afghan and NATO troops have replaced it with Afghanistan's official green-and-red banner, which they promise heralds new schools and clinics and good governance.

But residents have heard that before, and for many, Taliban rule hasn't been all that bad. Plenty of Afghans have made a living off the opium trade, which also funds the insurgency. While some residents greet NATO forces with tea, others just want the troops to clear their streets of explosives and leave.

No one here needs liberating, they say.

"The Taliban didn't create any problems for people. Every Thursday there was a court session, and if someone had a problem, he would go in front of the Taliban mullah who was the judge," said Samad Khan, a 55-year-old poppy farmer in the village of Saipo on the outskirts of Marjah. The Islamist militant group levied a 10 percent yearly tax on his poppy crop, and let him be.

Now, Khan says, he's worried that the assault, which began Saturday, is putting his family in danger.

"I'm afraid for my children, for my village, because the fighting is increasing," he said. He's looking for a way to flee to the nearby provincial capital of Lashkar Gah but said he's scared to pick his way through the explosive-laced fields to get there. The Taliban planted countless bombs in the area in preparation for the U.S.-led attack.


read more: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gTfHyjcjbgay2qXl5_ZJOxqvF16AD9DU29RO0

[anonymous171]

1. Ever notice how the American state is all about self-determination at home

But for some reason they tell us that we need to go and "help" foreign nations "develop" themselves?

[Echo In Light]

2. _

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

3. "..they make a desert and call it peace." Tacitus circa 98AD

[Flaneur]

4. Wait, that's not the official line!

[Mari333]

5. how dare they say that. when here we are, the beacons of democracy

forcing our ideas down their throats..


get us the HELL out of there.

the hubris of USA is appalling.

leave afghanistan alone.

[classysassy]

8. We can't leave

until the pipeline is finished.The oil gangsters need the troops to protect their interest.

[bigtree]

6. .

[bigtree]

7. .

[seg]

9. They're not there to liberate

The U.S. never went anywhere to liberate someone. They are in Afghanistan for oil and a launching base to attack Iran. Nothing more.

[HughMoran]

10. "Yes, we prefer anarchy"

"We can grow and sell all the opium we want using machine guns to kill anybody who doesn't tow the line"

[bigtree]

11. the lack of a credible, functioning central government isn't their fault

These folks feel they have a government structure which effectively represents them. This man quoted supports that governance. But the U.S. and NATO (and you) know what's better for the residents of Marjah . . .


report from RFE/RL: http://www.rferl.org/content/What_Does_Victory_In_Marjah_Mean/1960600.html

U.S. allies are hoping for immediate dividends in Marjah. "I can't say how long it will take for this military phase to get to the point where we can bring in the civilian support from the Afghan government. We hope that will happen quickly," says Mark Sedwill, NATO's civilian chief in Kabul.

It's doubtful, however, whether a war-weary and desperate people who have repeatedly been promised a quick military victory by a foreign force, and security by a Karzai government built on graft, will overlook eight years of incompetence and embrace wholeheartedly an effort that -- now or later -- could certainly cost them their lives and livelihood.

In addition, Marjah is populated by Pashtuns, the same ethnic group that comprises the majority of the Taliban ranks. This fact is given short shrift by U.S. officials who tend to speak of "development" and "democracy" as if hollow rhetoric belied by nearly a decade of half-hearted and counterproductive efforts can transcend centuries of tribal unity.

Duplicating previous strategies in Iraq and Vietnam, U.S. officials appear to be projecting American goals on to the local population without considering the real possibility that Afghans may choose to support their co-ethnics, however brutal, rather than embrace a foreign political ideology, especially if that ideology is being imposed by guns that too often do not discriminate between civilians and Taliban fighters.

And Marjah civilians are already paying the price for NATO's mistakes . . .

more: http://www.rferl.org/content/What_Does_Victory_In_Marjah_Mean/1960600.html

[HughMoran]

13. You think that's a credible, functioning government?

...and that because one drug dealer is happy, then all Afghanis are happy with anarchy - like woman who are treated like second class dirt??? That's insanity.

[bigtree]

14. I think that it's their decision, not ours

I don't recall the citizens of Marjah asking to be invaded and to be made subject to whatever government structure our military forces impose on them. Maybe you can point me to that account.

[HughMoran]

15. Read the post below mine.

6% like Taliban - rofl.

[bigtree]

17. It's expected that you would believe it's our province to invade their village

. . . remove whatever authority they have in place there and replace it with the vestiges of a central government that our own administration and NATO officials admit is corrupt and compromised behind the force of our military . . . It's rather typical of Americans to think this way about foreigners subject to the effects and consequences of our military advance. 'We're just helping them' aren't we?

[HughMoran]

18. Putting words in my mouth - you started this post, don't attack me for disagreeing n/t

[bigtree]

20. you responded to what I wrote by pointing to a post with a dubious poll

. . . and a children's story.

I really can't tell what you believe that means in relation to what I wrote . . . I assume you believe the residents of that town are oppressed by the Taliban - I further surmise (from your own dismissive comments) that you believe the residents who dare to criticize the invasion of their village are 'drug dealers' and the women are so oppressed as to justify the raid and occupation of their village by the U.S.-led force. If not, why did you bother to post on this thread. If you don't want to have your summary posts interpreted for you, make them less cryptic and cute.

[johnaries]

12. on NPR Fresh Air tonight: 6% of Afghans actually "like" Taliban.

as much as many of us DUer's would like to make this a "black and white" issue, there is a lot more going on here than anybody wants to acknowledge.

Unlike the "shock and awe" Bushco Admin, the Obama Admin is actually trying to understand the nuances of the situation in Afghanistan. Most of the Taliban supporters are not ideological, but are supporters simply because the Taliban has "forced" them, or because it is economically advantageous.

One of the Obama initiatives is to make it more advantageous for the farmers to grow wheat instead of poppies.

Basically, it is "Big Stick" diplomacy. Obama wants to talk, but they won't listen unless we give them reason to.

There's an old joke:

A farmer was having trouble getting his mule to cooperate and pull the plow attached to the mule. Frustrated, the farmer beat the mule mercilessly on the shanks and rear trying to get the mule to move.
There was a stranger sitting on the fence watching, who eventually yelled out "hey, you ain't gotta beat that mule - all you got to do is talk to him!"
The farmer ignored this stranger and continued in his efforts to try to get the mule to stand up and continue it's job. As he continued, occasionally the stranger would repeat his admonitions "I'm trying to tell you, ya don't have to beat that mule, just talk to him!"
After much frustration, the farmer gives up and turns to the stranger and says "OK, you think you can get this mule to move by talking to it, I'd like to see you do it!
The stranger jumps down from the fence, and walks across the field picking up an errant 2x4 piece of wood along the way. The stranger walks directly in front of the mule, and strikes the mule directly between the eyes with the 2x4 driving the mule to it's knees.
The farmer protests, yelling "Whoa! I thought you said you only had to talk to the mule!"
The stranger calmly replies "Well, yeah, but I have to get his attention, first."

Big Stick Diplomacy. We can resolve it via talks. But we have to get them to want to talk, first.

[bigtree]

19. we're the farmers

. . . and they're the mules? :crazy:

[Therellas]

16. who is we again?