Please sign this petition supporting the teachers at Central Falls

[proud2BlibKansan]

This email went out to AFT members today:

Across the AFT, we understand that we all have a role to play in improving the quality of education in our schools. And the teachers at Central Falls High School in Rhode Island —a school you may have heard about in the past few days—are no different: They know there is more work to do to improve their school, and they have dedicated themselves to helping their students to achieve. But they face a terrible situation created by a superintendent who has chosen mass firing—firing all the teachers—rather than following a collaborative path to proven reforms that truly benefit students.

Sign a petition to show that you stand with the Central Falls High School community, students and teachers.

We are working closely with the Central Falls Teachers Union and the Rhode Island Federation of Teachers and Health Professionals to get the Central Falls administration to return to negotiations and find a resolution to this crisis.

In the meantime, you can make a difference. By signing the petition, you show that you are calling on the Central Falls superintendent to do what is right—work with the teachers instead of scapegoating them, and seek real reforms that help students achieve.

Thank you.

In unity,

Randi Weingarten
AFT President

And here's the petition:

Firing Teachers instead of Helping Kids? The Students, Teachers and Community of Central Falls Deserve Better

Teachers and staff at Central Falls High School are making real progress in improving academics and raising test scores. They are invested in their students and their community. And while they recognize there is still much work to be done, they want nothing more than to stay hard at work and continue the momentum.

Yet, District Superintendent Frances Gallo wants to fire the entire teaching faculty. The superintendent has chosen to just blame the teachers, rather than give them what they need - stability and support - to keep the progress going, and kids succeeding.

Sign below to show that you stand with the Central Falls High School community, students and teachers in calling on Superintendent Gallo to do what is right - work with the teachers to build on the improvements that students are showing at Central Falls High School.

http://centralfallskidsdeservebetter.com/petition

[Better Today]

1. Unfortunately, though this final firing issue is getting quite a bit

of attention, I have no idea about the conditions or the problems prior to this with enough detail or personal experience to have a legitimate vote.


As a matter of fact, no one outside that district really does. I would hate to vote such as you desire, then to find out that the parents involved are mostly on board with the firings.

[JuniperLea]

2. Well said...

A big red flag goes up for me whenever I see groups trying to push this kind of thing nationally...

[readmoreoften]

7. Yeah FUCK THE UNIONS!!!1!!!!

"groups" trying to push this kind of thing nationally. It's not a "group", it's a union and it's a union's JOB to push something nationally when an egregious mass firing occurs.

[JuniperLea]

25. Oh bull fucking shit...

I raised three kids on a Teamsters union job and have always supported... the information lacking in this story could fill a fucking library. Get over yourself.

My oldest went to a HS that had a 100% graduation rate, and 100% of the graduating class went on to college... and 97% of them obtained degrees. That 49% of the students don't graduate is a travesty... and there is far more story we aren't hearing than what we are hearing.

I don't walk lock step with anyone... not even a union... I don't vote until I get a sufficient amount of the story.

This whole thing is bogus, as is our fucking outrage.

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. You're a union member and you post this crap???

I'm willing to bet the kids in your kids' school weren't from non-English speaking homes with an average income of $22K. :eyes:

[Hannah Bell]

63. Yeah, I bet your kids went to school in a district with 30% poverty, 60% non-english at home,

30% transiency too. 70% renters, national average = 30%. 96% free school meals eligibility. 25% esl, 21% sped.

65% hispanic, 13% caucasian, 14% african-american.

I just bet.

Sure, like the lady who linked to her kids' $25K/yr private school to demonstrate how a good curriculum & new teachers could fix everything here.

This "district" of 7 schools is a gerrymandered ghetto.

[Better Today]

76. So are you saying that parents and students of this school and

ones like them across the country should JUST ACCEPT substandard educations? Well I think that POV sucks.

[Hannah Bell]

103. no, i'm saying no such thing. But that *is* the message the anti-public school forces have been

told to deliver. Over & over & over.

[WinkyDink]

32. THIS is REAGANESQUE in its INJUSTICE & MAGNITUDE OF FIRINGS.

[proud2BlibKansan]

41. Amen

[Bozita]

47. Central Falls is the trial balloon for the equivalent of PATCO.

They want to see how it plays in RI before ...

If you're union, you're in trouble. Strictly from a worker's point of view, this is the third term of GWBush.

I'm sorry for feeling the need to say that.

[Starry Messenger]

58. You said it.

Same bullshit talking points as well. But this time from Democrats too!

[Fresh_Start]

4. +1

I liked to be well informed when I take a position.
And there has not been enough information around for me to be well informed on this topic

[readmoreoften]

8. Great. More anti-union DUers.

Then why don't you click on the links and "inform" yourself.

[Fresh_Start]

14. Wow...so wanting to be well informed makes me anti-union

sorry I refuse to be a sheep
Apparently you have no issue with being poorly informed

[Bozita]

10. This thread's been here at DU for 2 days. 7700 views, 250+ comments

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7788178&mesg_id=7788178

[Better Today]

12. That discusses the firings, and has a very brief comment or two

about why they are being fired. It isn't informative enough to help someone who isn't involved know the why-fors, and the what-fors of the situation.

And just as having elitist, play-boy, cokeheads as alumni doesn't end the credibility on an upper class, private school; neither does having a wonderful actress as an alumni give credence to this school.

[JuniperLea]

27. Quentin Tarantino dropped out of my high school!

I guess that makes my alma matter just brilliant, right?

You're right... we know very little about this story, and what we do know raises a red flag with me... mainly due to the facts you note. If that's what they choose to release and relate, there's a problem.

[Fresh_Start]

16. reading opinions even 250 of them

does not constitute being well informed

[Better Today]

21. Those are not 250 opinions of parents of students in that school or district.

[Fresh_Start]

30. I'm already agreeing with you better

maybe my post was unclear

[Better Today]

34. My bad, I read it as a question. Y'know the type that isn't really

intended as a question. So sorry, I misread.

[Hannah Bell]

73. Central Falls High graduates gather in support of the teaching staff during Tuesday’s meeting

Central Falls High graduates gather in support of the teaching staff during Tuesday’s meeting in which all 93 teachers were fired. (The Providence Journal / Connie Grosch)



CENTRAL FALLS, R.I. - "You're a coward!"

"You should be ashamed!"

Shouts broke through the heavy silence that had fallen in the auditorium of Central Falls High School.

Supt. Frances Gallo had just recommended that the district's Board of Trustees fire the entire teaching staff of the city's only high school, effective at the end of the school year.

Then, as the board's vice chairwoman, Sonia Rodrigues, read each name aloud, a teacher stood. Some stood in silence, others held back tears.

"Look up, Gallo! Look at us!"

Gallo was sitting on the stage with the seven trustees and a small group of administrators. She rose and looked out at the audience in the packed high school auditorium. She remained standing until the last of 93 names - a history teacher, a reading specialist, physical education, music and art teachers, a social worker, a nurse, the school psychologist, even the principal - was called.

A few minutes earlier, a resolved Gallo had opened her remarks by lashing out at teachers union leaders who she said had contrived stories "that misinform and twist the truth." The union, the superintendent said, has distorted what went on in negotiations in "a deliberate attempt to obfuscate the issue of meaningful reform."

Gallo said that if the teachers had gone along with her transformation plan, they would have had "100-percent job security."

Shouts broke out again.

"Boo!"

"Liar!"



http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2010/02/25-1

[Bozita]

74. Here's hoping the information seekers find your post.

[Hannah Bell]

64. your position is obvious.

[readmoreoften]

5. ALL 500 TEACHERS DESERVED TO BE FIRED? You live under a rock.

Do you not understand what is going on?! They're privatizing public education in half the cities in America and firing anyone who protests. They're privatizing education in LA, Chicago, NYC almost overnight.

[Better Today]

11. As I said, I have no indication of the "truth" in this circumstance, and

therefore my support might undermine the wishes of the parents. Since I believe that parents are the ultimate judges of their school systems, I have no valid position to sign the petition.

Unless you live in the district, neither do you.

[Hannah Bell]

67. maybe you ought to do some research, then. and, fyi, the "wishes of the parents" have

*nothing* to do with it. it wasn't the parents who pushed or supported this.

it was arne duncan & his minion gallo.

your position is obvious. you like scabs.

[proud2BlibKansan]

89. Many of the parents at this school are poor and non English speaking

Maybe you should wait until they learn to speak English.

:sarcasm:

[stray cat]

20. Over 1/2 of the faculty can be rehired - if they want to apply and can make the grade

right now the students sure aren't making the grade - graduates should be able to read and add and subtract

[WinkyDink]

33. Really? AT WHAT SALARY LEVELS? They ALREADY were hired BY AN ADMINISTRATOR.

Somehow, incompetent ADMINISTRATORS continue to collect their over $100K salaries and never get fired.

[Hannah Bell]

65. Super who fired the teachers made $140K in 2007. Plus benefits. At the time

she had .25 years in.

Any guesses what she gets now?

But her pay isn't an issue - surprise, surprise.

[Bozita]

51. BULLSHIT! ... Rehiring is limited to 50% max. ... Got any more 'facts' for us?

[mzteris]

22. 500? What rock have you been reading?

Not even close.

She didn't want to fire the teachers. The idiot "negotiators" who didn't know how to do their job correctly are to thank for THAT!

[Hannah Bell]

69. 93 people were fired. and if gallo didn't want to fire them, she didn't have to. she wanted to.

[proud2BlibKansan]

39. Do you honestly believe that firing every teacher in the school

is going to solve anything??

[Better Today]

49. What I believe is that I have no position to have an opinion about this local matter.

[Bozita]

50. And you posted SEVEN times in this thread? You had no position but posted 7 times!

Simply amazing.

[proud2BlibKansan]

54. !

[Better Today]

56. Anything I can do to get a few to think before they post to

petitions that they don't have enough information to be petitioning for or against is a good thing.

Schools in many places are in need of drastic reformation, perhaps this is one. I would hate for myself or others who at first glance feel sympathetic towards unions or teachers, to out petition the parents and students of this school with no regard for their input. I have seen nothing to indicate to me that parents or students of that school or that district are upset with the decision. They are the one's I'm concerned about. Sorry you don't seem to be, but think it a good idea to get involved anyway.

[Bozita]

62. So, you're kinda the school crossing guard protecting folks from signing a UNION-SPONSORED petition

... because they lack information.

Let me ask. Do you think we oughta still be looking for those WMDs in Iraq?

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Better Today]

75. Since I'm not attempting to cross a picket or union line,

I can't be categorized as a scab, unless the meaning has changed dramatically in 20 years, which is the last time I heard it.


Secondly, as another poster pointed out, I don't blindly agree with anyone, any belief, or any entity; including but not limited to:

Unions, Presidents, Congresscritters, Corporate Advertising or PR, Religions, DUers, FDA, NIH, CIA, Army, Navy, Police, Lawyers, . . . if it can be named, I don't follow it blindly. In this case, the information provided is clearly one sided, and incomplete. Feel free to put unions above the best options for the students, I won't go there as I believe the benefits of school should be for students not for a union, even if the union is of teachers.

[Bozita]

79. So why aren't you seeking more information instead of wasting your time posting here?

Sincere question.

"In this case, the information provided is clearly one sided, and incomplete."

Your words.

I refuse to overstate the obvious.

[Better Today]

81. I appreciate the sincerity. Since it seems to be limited to one

school, the effort it would take to get an accurate picture of the everyday moms, dads, grandmas, guardians, students, and alumni simply isn't personally worth it to me, not being a journalist or an activist.

However, if anyone can show me a journalist or activist, or person of any stripe, the can offer reasonable information that is either verifiable or the reporter has verifiable credentials, then I will be happy to reconsider my cautious approach to jumping on board this train.

[Bozita]

87. I'd recommend reading the Common Dreams piece linked in post #73 - Here's the link...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7802843&mesg_id=7805413

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Better Today]

84. That fact that you are reduced repeating around inaccurate name calling

says more about you, than about me.

Have a lovely evening!

[Hannah Bell]

85. lol. you're going home? good, you can do that "research".

[proud2BlibKansan]

90. I am absolutely blown away by some of the responses here

[proud2BlibKansan]

53. What's your opinion about firing every employee?

You don't need to know the particulars of this story to form an opinion. Is it ever okay to fire every employee?

Is every teacher in this school incompetent?

[Better Today]

60. Yes it is acceptale to fire every employee, and I am under the

impression some will be re-hired, so effectively not all are being fired, hence no one is saying they are all incompetent. I see no problem with them going through the hiring process again, particularly if the hiring process is intent on getting better end results.

[Bozita]

66. NONE of the non-rehired teachers will ever teach again. Their careers are over.

And you have no clue as to the quality of those not rehired. That's pretty shitty. On your part, of course.

It's called 'blackballing' and you can get more information about it by doing a little research.

Maybe some of the blackballed got that way due to their location on the district's salary schedule?

[YvonneCa]

71. You do realize that the more expensive, more experienced...

...teachers won't be rehired, right?

[Better Today]

82. Perhaps, and that would be telling, but I'm unwilling to prejudge that.

[YvonneCa]

98. I wouldn't have 'prejudged' it either until...

...it happened in my district.

[YvonneCa]

55. Would it change your thinking to know...

...that LAUSD is doing the same thing at Fremont High? It's not a local issue.

[Better Today]

61. No, it would not. Two incidents doesn't bother me. There are

hundreds if not thousands of ineffective schools in the USA. Something has to be done. To date, nothing has worked. Something new, even if painful for the teachers and admin, may be just what the students need and the parents want. I cannot repeat enough, it isn't the teachers I would look to to shape my opinions on this, it would be parents and students. Show me those opinions and I will be happy to alter my thinking accordingly.

[YvonneCa]

68. What should happen to an effective teacher at...

...an ineffective school that is closed?

[Better Today]

83. We don't know yet. It could be bad, but we just don't know yet.

They are re-hiring some, who they re-hire, how they re-hire, and ultimately whether the students' educations improve are unknown, and will remain so unless and until the outcome is known.

[YvonneCa]

97. I think you misunderstood my question. I am aware of...

...the possible outcomes. What I was asking is what do you think SHOULD (ought to) happen to effective teachers caught up in this situation?

[Better Today]

100. I'm pretty sure I don't have the ability to determine which

teachers are effective in such a failing system. How would you suggest that effectiveness be determined?

Given that some legitimate way to assess effectiveness of the past is determinable, then I would think that those teachers should be re-hired, at their current pay.

[YvonneCa]

101. Under NCLB, about to be re-authorized as ESEA...

...every teacher was evaluated and labeled 'Highly Qualified' or 'Not Highly Qualified.' It was never defined that 'Highly Qualified' equaled effective. Educators have been debating that issue for a long time.

The definition in place during the years these teachers have been working with students...under NCLB...is one measure. So far, it's the only one available. When NCLB is re-authorized...as ESEA...there will be a new definition. My answer to how to measure a teacher's effectiveness would require an essay (which I won't be writing here :) ). But it is way more than test scores...WAY more.

I appreciate that you think these teachers deserve to be hired back. I wish that is what will happen. I'm pretty sure it WON'T happen. This will be used to 'kill two birds with one stone'...they will get new teachers in (TFA,probably) and states will save money in the process. $$$ is the bottom line.

[Better Today]

102. So I'm curious, what you think would need to be done at a school

such as this where graduation rates and other indicators show it to be a failing school? I mean something has to be done, a number of things have been tried across the US for schools such as these, and yet, no satisfactory resolutions to anything I've read or heard about.

My humble suggestion, based on the places I've lived, is to more evenly distribute the property taxes collected across the state to each school, not only to the schools in the districts wherein the property taxes were collected. This screwy way of distributing (or not as the case seems to be) the tax dollars just assures that richer, well maintained, well staffed schools continue to get more even though other schools remain beyond needy.

[YvonneCa]

105. I agree with you about education funding. It's...

...a mess. And different states fund differently. I think that's one reason people get confused about money and public schools.

As to solutions for failing schools...I'm going to be a bit lazy today (watching tsunami coverage and all :7 ) and repost a couple of things:

First...

"Certainly, there are teachers who should not be there, but, for the vast majority of them, how do you differentiate who is the best teacher or not?"

That is the big question. And I worry that much of the public and many politicians (who rightfully want to improve public schools) have no real idea of what is wrong with them. So they try 'canned solutions'...like merit pay...most of which are the wrong thing to do. JMHO. Merit pay is divisive...just like NCLB was. That doesn't mean it can't be a tool for improvement if done in the right way, but it HAS to be done fairly.

Example: NCLB has good things in it, but it became bogged down because it used AYP to pit schools and districts and teachers against each other..instead of helping us to work together toward a goal we all share: Improving education for kids. I think ANY workable solution will require input and support from teachers...not just unions...teachers. Lately, teachers have become the scapegoat for ALL that is wrong in public schools. Personally, I can no longer tolerate that.

I also believe NCLB also put great pressure on administrators to meet AYP goals. I think it's important not to paint ALL administrators with a broad brush, either, because there are MANY good administrators who do their best to work cooperatively with teachers to educate children in their districts. But there is a conflict...most administrators are 'at-will' employees, which means they would lose their job if goals were not met, which means they do what they have to to reach AYP. In some cases, as I have witnessed, they resort to harassing teachers to make this happen.

I am an educator. So are most administrators. We HAVE to work together to fix our system. THAT'S why I feel so strongly that teachers...not just unions...have to be heard. I also think GOOD administrators should be involved.


It is CRITICALLY important that we fix public education. We, as a country, have talked about it the whole time I have been a teacher...but we haven't done the right things. Politics always gets in the way.

THIS TIME, I want Obama to do it right. If all he does is 'fix teachers', he will...sadly...learn what teachers already know: WE are not the #1 problem. And we will have wasted more time and more money and we still won't be educating our kids for THEIR future. THAT is no longer acceptable...at least not to me.

I voted for President Obama. I think he is a smart man, and the person we need now to lead. I want him to make good decisions for our country. On education, I believe he can only do that with ALL the information out there...and that includes the point of view and experience of TEACHERS. I, too, have great hopes for what he may be able to accomplish. My hope comes from knowing he is intelligent enough to understand problems we face and find solutions, seeing that he has great empathy for all people (even those who don't agree with him), and observing that he is willing to learn from what has gone before (both in politics and policy) and builds a strong foundation for the things he proposes.

Had we elected McCain, I'd be very afraid.

Second...
Posted May 16, 2009 at 12:29 am
Secretary Duncan,

Thank you for your listening tour. As a recently retired teacher, I really hope you are successful in rebuilding our public schools. I have given a lot of thought, during my career, about what it would take to better educate our kids and make schools work better. Here in California we have had very high standards for some time…and while they are important, I want to be sure you know it will take much more than just ‘fine-tuning’ standards to make education right.

So, what follows are my thoughts about what you should REALLY consider, if you truly plan to make our public schools the envy of the world (which would be my goal).

Number One: Publicly apologize to teachers for scapegoating them in recent years. You need them on your side (and they aren’t right now). In 2001, under the Bush Administration’s Education Secretary, Rod Paige, teachers (unions, specifically) were called terrorist organizations. For the last eight years, NCLB has done nothing but blame public school problems on ineffective teachers (probably because they prefer vouchers). There has been almost NO recognition for eight years of the job teachers do. The general public has NO IDEA what the job entails and our leaders have worked to make that WORSE for eight years. A better start would be a HUGE and LOUD apology to the teachers of this nation who have dedicated their lives to teaching kids. Most with little support, either financial or in respect.

Number Two: And then ask teachers what they think, and make THAT public. What a difference that would bring! Much of the public and many politicians (who rightfully want to improve public schools) have no real idea of what is wrong with them. So they try ‘canned solutions’…like merit pay…most of which are the wrong thing to do. JMHO. Merit pay is divisive…just like NCLB was. That doesn’t mean it can’t be a tool for improvement if done in the right way, but it HAS to be done fairly. Example: NCLB has good things in it, but it became bogged down because it used AYP to pit schools and districts and teachers against each other..instead of helping us to work together toward a goal we all share: Improving education for kids. I think ANY workable solution will require input and support from teachers…not just unions…teachers. In all the talk of fixing public education and schools…which I wholeheartedly support…the idea of involving teachers in this process is never brought up by anyone in a position of authority. I’m glad to hear they may ‘rename’ NCLB and start to include a ‘progress’ measure for accountability…but talk about putting lipstick on the proverbial pig.

Number Three: My reform ideas, with the underlying prerequisite that teachers MUST be involved in designing a program in order for it to be successful…

1. For teachers, stop demeaning them and start treating them professionally. Create career paths for them. Very few exist now, because teaching used to be a ‘traditional woman’s job.’

2. Integrate curriculum. Learning makes more sense to kids when connections to other knowledge can be made. We have lost that in the era of NCLB. And we can still keep standards to meet…just not in isolation.

3. Create multiple pathways/goals for students’ graduation…all of them rigorous. Have it kick in at about age 10 or so…be flexible until age 12 (to be sure the child has made a good personal choice)…and then be the student’s committed choice after that. Some kids may choose science/math, others may go into writing/journalism, others to a third choice. It’s important to design these pathways well…for areas students will need to work in in the future. When they finish, they are job-ready or college ready…but THEY have some buy-in to their future goal (not just their teacher or their parents).

4. Ungraded schools at the elementary level. As some have said here, mastery of concepts should be required to move on. It’s WAY more complicated than that…but clearly passing kids from grade to grade does not work.

5. Find ways to involve parents in their child’s education…ie. Student Led Conferences, Curriculum Fair, technology, etc. The list is endless.

6. Testing for accountability shoud be streamlined. Under NCLB, the testing has become all-consuming. It leaves little time to teach.

If the only test given was for NCLB…once a year…I’d cheer. But, in my county, tests are given three times a year…in reading, math and writing…to be sure state standards are met…in addition to NCLB. We start the school year…we test. We get to Christmas…we test. We return in the spring…we do test prep and test NCLB. After NCLB, at the end of the year…we test again. That’s what I mean. And anyone who has taught knows you don’t just test one day…you have all the hassle because kids are absent/makeups, etc. And then there’s the focus on scoring.

Teacher energy needs to be on the kids and teaching.

7. Use data fairly. Measure growth.

Example: At the start of a new school year, student A reads at 4th grade level. By year’s end, student A reads at 6th grade level. That’s two years of growth, and it is easily tested. Let’s say student A is in a 4th grade classroom. The teacher does well, both on growth…and currently on NCLB. That’s because NCLB wanted that student to read at 5th grade level by the end of the year…target met.

Now, take student B. At the start of the school year, student B reads at 4th grade level. By year’s end, student B reads at 6th grade level. Again, that’s two years of growth and it’s easily tested. But student B is in a 6th grade classroom. The teacher has done well on growth…two years. But the teacher is ‘iffy’ on NCLB, because the target is 7th grade level (ready for middle school).

And then, take student C. At the start of the school year, student C reads at 4th grade level. By year’s end, student C reads at 5th grade level. That’s one year growth, and it’s easily tested. But student C is also in a 6th grade classroom. The teacher has done okay on growth (one year for one year of instruction) by the student can’t meet the NCLB target of 7th grade. That teacher is PUNISHED by NCLB.

That is the part that is unfair. And many excellent, dedicated teachers in underperforming schools are being targetted because of it.

Another example:

Let’s say there are four second grade teachers. Every one of them produces an average of 1 to 3 years growth in their class of students. But they are very different as teachers…one complains about *certain* students placed in their class every year, another teaches ‘GATE’ students (and they get averaged into the total class improvement), another regularly takes kids the others don’t want because of a belief that you work with students as they come to you, etc.

Thanks to the current focus on ‘data’ and ‘results’ (which does have a place) at the end of the year, these four teachers get a number (data) showing average growth of their class. IMO, data is important, but it is ONE measure of each teacher. Remember, ALL these teachers added value. ALL these teachers are good teachers. But administrators…under great pressure as ‘at-will’ employees…see this data. Some (really bad ones) make the data public by handing it out at staff meetings. This pits one teacher against another when we should all be working toward the same goal.

Data is a tool…but only ONE tool. Anyone who has taken a class in statistics will tell you you can twist data to make a case for anything. That’s what has changed under NCLB…successful teachers who help their students grow are NOT rewarded, they are punished because sometimes even 3-4 years growth is still below standard.

Thanks for listening! And good luck to you, Secretary Duncan…I KNOW our country can do better.




Last...read at Ed.gov. http://www.ed.gov/blog/2009/05/secretary-arne-duncan-takes-listening-tour-online-invites-comments-on-raising-standards/#comments

Other educators have some FANTASTIC ideas, if anyone ever asked... ;)

[Better Today]

109. The only problems I have regarding your re-posts are

1. the first section is all about what not to do and what isn't working, that doesn't help.

2. the section where positive ideas are listed, they are all about what the teachers think, see, want. I see no discussion of including parents' ideas, students' ideas, or administrative ideas. Teachers are only 1/4 of the school system in practical terms. . . let me explain that. For each student at any given moment, education consists of four entities who are supposed to be effective to the educational outcome, the student, the parents, the teachers, and the administrators. For each student, these influences to their education are invaluable and necessary in relatively equal parts. If any one of these 4 parts becomes a hindrance, the education will suffer. Parents bring attitude and homework support, administrations bring peace and security to the educational environment, teachers teach, and students commit time and energy to learning, or so it should be. So in my opinion, all four groups need to be listened to and all four groups need to involved in the solutions.

[YvonneCa]

110. As I said, I was being lazy yesterday. Those posts were less...

...a response to you and more a way to help you see where I am coming from. I agree we are all part od a team...working on behalf of our children. I've spent a lot of years doing exactly that as a teacher. I also raised two daughters in the public schools and now have a grandson there...so I get the responsibilities of each part of the team.

What I DON'T buy in to is the notion...promoted by some with little knowledge of the teaching role...that fixing teachers fixes everything. It won't. And if, as a country, we go down that path...we will fail again. We can't afford to fail again.

I think President Obama is our best hope.

[Better Today]

111. Sounds like we are mostly on the same page. To you!

[YvonneCa]

112. Thank you. P.S...

...I like Grayson, too.;)

[Hannah Bell]

77. here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7802843&mesg_id=7805413

[Nite Owl]

3. Signed it

this is a very important issue, it could set a precedent.

[Bozita]

6. A professional death sentence for the staff. Yet the same supt will hire the new staff.

Something stinks. If a clean sweep is necessary, how does Supt. Gallo live to fight another day?

[hayu_lol]

18. In the bad old days of organized labor...

management dealt with labor exactly this way. Ultimatums. Threats. Loss Of Livlihoods.

Until management sits down with this union and negotiates, these teachers need to strike(have a no-strike contract)and walk out. The pressure from 70 empty classrooms will affect the board and the board will affect the superintendent. Would be nice if the kids would join the teachers on the lines...and supportive parents.

[Doremus]

9. If they fire ALL administrators then I'll be okay with firing the teachers.

Alternately, provide me proof that teachers are solely to blame.

Then I'll agree with firing them all.

This is a repuke wet dream and I'm amazed there are any progressives who would fall for it.

[Fresh_Start]

13. The principal and assistant principals at the school were fired

as well

[tonysam]

17. That's not ALL of the administrators

Gallo would have to go, too.

[Doremus]

24. I said ALL administrators.

Teachers do not and cannot function in a vacuum. They are supported (supposedly) by an entire cadre of well-paid office suits who operate in relative anonymity. There are suits to perform PR, financial and curriculum functions, special needs, etc., etc. ad infinitum.

They are as responsible as the teachers in the trenches. Fire them all, and fire the superintendent too because the buck stops there.

It won't happen though because teachers are too easy a target and easy feels so good.

[proud2BlibKansan]

42. They aren't progressives

I have to remind myself all the time that this is a Democratic discussion board and not all Democrats are progressives.

[Vinca]

15. I heard a report that half the kids in this school can't read.

Can't read???? I'm not inclined to sign any petitions.

[proud2BlibKansan]

43. LOL and you think that's the teachers' fault?

How many of these kids who can't read speak English? How many have regularly attended school?

Teachers don't sprinkle magic fairy dust that makes kids turn into readers. Get a clue.

[Vinca]

91. You must be a teacher.

[jmowreader]

107. How many of them aren't eating on a regular basis?

How many of their parents have loud parties all night, bicker with each other, are taking care of three generations of the family under one roof?

As for this "highly qualified / not highly qualified" thing...why does that sound like "B is a failing grade"?

[Hannah Bell]

108. link this report.

[stray cat]

19. 85% of the kids who graduate from here can't do basic math - how about offering them jobs

maybe then can learn to read, write and add and subtract on your dollar.

In fact I have a college graduate (biology) who can't divide 10 by 5 - maybe someone will offer her another job in scientific research as well

People want to protect workers but they have to be capably of performing their jobs at least semi-credibly. Do you really want incompetent doctors and surgeons working on you.

[Bozita]

57. You lied in post #20. Why don't you tell us the % of non-English speaking immigrants?

Breaking News Flash: They've got a whole lot of immigrants in Central Falls.

And, how fluent are you in languages other than English?

[zanana1]

23. I used to teach in a rough neighborhood school.

I understand the teacher's frustrations so well. It's pretty hard to get the students to pay attention and study when they're busy shooting up and carrying. Teachers at my school were ordered to break up any fights they saw in the hallways. I weighed about 100 lbs. at the time and the average student was 16 years old. At one time, I had to drive myself to the ER when a student walked into my classroom in a bad mood and threw a book at me. Six stitches. I actually stayed there for six years. I don't know how I did it. IMO, those teachers deserve medals, not firing.

[proud2BlibKansan]

44. +1,000,000

[Hannah Bell]

78. No, you don't understand, all you need is motivated teachers & a good curriculum!

so the lady who sends her kids to a $25K/year private kindergarten told me, & she should know.

i mean, she's read *piaget*.

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

96. blaming the teachers is a distraction for the admins and politicians

I taught for an alternative high school for a few years before I moved on to undergraduate instruction. I was once stabbed in the hand with a ballpoint pen by a schizophrenic student, so I know exactly what you mean.

Going after teachers is an easy way for politicians and administrators to avoid looking at the real causes of ignorance: poverty, malnutrition and America's current (and terrifying) embrace of anti-intellectualism as reaction against political disenfranchisement. You want test scores to improve? Feed your students more nutritious food and focus on creating a culture that values education. Help the students reach the understanding that knowledge is real power over their own lives.

None of this will happen, of course. It is much easier to blame a small group of hardworking, dedicated and drastically underpaid teachers than to make any real changes.

[Starry Messenger]

26. Done.

For the curious:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=rhode+island+teacher+firings

[JuniperLea]

28. Sweet trick! eom

[Bozita]

35. I'm sure the "need more information" group is busy using your link.

:sarcasm:

[Starry Messenger]

36. :)

You can tell by their touching silence.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Starry Messenger]

104. People are just really cowed and won't stick up for labor.

I was blown away by a friend on Facebook who is a liberal and works for the state gov't here in CA. He thought the teachers should suck it up too and used very similar language to what I've seen here. The anti-teacher propaganda has been very effective across party lines, I'm afraid.

[proud2BlibKansan]

45. LOL

[amborin]

29. done

[upi402]

31. "The buck stops here" used to mean - at the top

Now all the underlings take the fall for rot at the top.

[Ishoutandscream2]

37. AFT member here. Gladly signed petition

Thanks for bringing it here to DU. Solidarity!

[proud2BlibKansan]

46. AFT member here too

Solidarity indeed :)

[LWolf]

38. Glad to do so, of course. nt

[hayu_lol]

48. Really nice google link...

How many of the underachieving students were behind upon entering high school. In other words...were these students properly prepared by their junior high and elementary schools.

If the students were that far behind, then what could the teachers do? Scores were coming up in several areas showing change was taking place.

I still say the teachers should vote to strike and walk out leaving the school district with some very severe problems.

[proud2BlibKansan]

52. They should fire the elementary teachers too!

:sarcasm:

[Hannah Bell]

86. in fact, both math & reading scores had risen over the last two years. reading something like 25%.

it's nothing to do with the students. it's about getting rid of the teachers & the union, period.

they start with the poorest, most politically unorganized districts & move up.

it's planned & deliberate.

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[proud2BlibKansan]

92. +1

[JVS]

59. K&R

[mbperrin]

93. AFT member signed on and pleased to do so!

Highest poverty school in Rhode Island, and scores up 21% in the last two years, so fire everybody? Amazing.

Even more amazing - the super gets to fire those who were actually communists or something, because they expected to get pay for working!

I can assure you, after three decades in teaching, that those teachers work plenty of hours off the clock, at home, grading, attending events in the community, judging at contests, sponsoring activities and many more. There's a reason why 50% of new teachers nationally will leave the profession forever after 3 years - the job is extremely difficult, emotionally draining, and vastly unappreciated.

Let me give you just one example of why "one size fits all" solutions don't work. My first year teaching, I had a young man in one class (I teach high school students) who just couldn't sit still. He fidgeted, he stood up, he even walked a few steps in any direction and sat down again very often during class. No student actually complained about him, but our district policy was "butts in seats" and the first thing you're supposed to do is talk to the student. I did that, he looked sheepish, but kept moving about, so I did the next thing, a parent call. Father assured me he'd take care of it. He did. Three days later, the young man returned to class with a broken wrist and two black eyes. He told me he was sorry he had been such a bad person and that he would try to do better.

I THEN did what my young, unimaginative ass SHOULD have done in the fist place - give him jobs to do. He became the person to hand out papers, return work, sharpen pencils for tests, run the attendance to the office, all things that are actually time users for teachers, but that he loved to do. I felt such shame (and still do) for his injuries that it makes my throat hurt now to think how stupid I was about nothing at all.

The young man? He's now a grade level principal at the school where I teach, very well known for turning "problem" kids around.

That's a success, and it feels great that I might have been a piece of it, but there's plenty else. I have two students who have died in the current useless wars for profit overseas; I've had many others drop out to go to work, some I could never get to participate at all or to let me understand what it would take to get them involved; in short, a mixed bag.

The hardest thing about teaching is that you don't really know how you did until 10, 15 years later, and even then, you were just one small piece of the puzzle. What I can assure you is, it is not possible that this school has the best super in the world and the worst 93 teachers in the world. But the suits want easy answers, so that is the one they use.

[proud2BlibKansan]

94. Well said. Thank you very much.

:hug: Solidarity.

[G_j]

95. thank you

for offering some real sanity to the discussion.

[Starry Messenger]

99. Great post!

That's the part the suits never get--the human factor. It's too threatening to their corporate mindset. If they were to recognize that the students were humans with individual needs then they'd have to do that with everyone involved. If they stick to their fake numbers they only have to examine the bottom line.

[Vidar]

106. done.