The real problem in the immigration & drug situations: Immediacy.

[UTUSN]

The blowhards follow one another, one right after the other, giving their If-I-were-King-of-the-world dictums: "They have to learn English. They have to pay a fine. They have to go back to Mexico. They have to go to the end of the line."

And on and on. Hoops and more hoops to jump through, with the usual Lucy-snatching-the-football-away always a likely possibility.


The real problem on both sides is IMMEDIACY: Business owners and managers want/need cheap labor NOW. The laborers want/need money and food NOW. As for drugs, the byword in Latin America has been for generations: If the United States didn't ASK for drugs, WE wouldn't be sending them." Supply and demand. Same thing about the U.S. manufacture and sale of weaponry: "The BUSINESS of the U.S. is the manufacture of arms. Then they get all UPSET when their customers start SHOOTING."

SOLUTIONS:

* Labor: In the '60s there was a guest worker program. They applied/enlisted/registered, entered to live and work in an orderly manner, and went home and returned the next season.

* Drugs: The U.S. needs to sink the cash into rehab and preventative education programs----or else LEGALIZE the damned stuff and get it all regulated and taxed. In Mexico, the peons do NOT use pot recreationally. They know it is a pain management tool, "When a woman gives birth or a man breaks a limb..."

* Crime: If AZ, or wherever, is infested with drop houses, shootings, kidnappings, dangerous dog neighborhoods-----------arrest THOSE perpetrators aggressively. If they happen to be undocumented, found out AFTER the crime arrest, then deport THOSE. Not a fakey gimmick that goes after everybody (notice the "immediacy" angle).

[TheKentuckian]

1. Crack down on illegal hiring including stings at Lowe's, closing the loophole

that allows small amounts under the table, and on site verification against reported employees and taxes along with ending the drug war and the problem is solved.


Folks don't want to do those things? Then they need to STFU about the situation.

[UTUSN]

2. The "illegal hiring" is part of the "old" problem, what the wingnuts use as a fake "solution"

I am definitely not advocating any wingnut fake solutions, the "crackdowns" approach. This does not address the labor problem.

[Johonny]

4. I don't see how it's a "fake" solution

So businesses wants cheap labor now. I want a lot of things to. It turns out to be illegal to hire undocumented laborers. Hey it's great that they are cheap and all. But it's not like there are not millions of legally eligible to work Americans out there looking for jobs right now. I simply do not buy that there are jobs Americans won't do. There is yet to be found a job so horrible Americans right now aren't doing them. So hey call me old fashion but I believe corporations should have to follow the law. I give not a * if they want to hire illegal people because it's cheaper and they turn a bigger profit, while placing more financial burden on the rest of society. If you can't legally hire people, you should not be in business. Trading what society needs verse what businesses wants so they may save a few pennies here and there is how we get oil platforms that can't be turned off, a collapse in our banking institution...

the only problem we have with labor is that these corporations do not respect our laws.

[UTUSN]

6. Because both the hire-ers and the undocumented are doing THAT right now.

BOTH of them are willing to break laws to get what they want NOW.

The key word is "immediacy." Fast wants and fast "solutions" are the problems and are NOT addressing the core problems and solutions.

You are NOT going to get the Draconian castigate the hire-ers, and if you do, the problem is NOT going to be fixed because the real problems are not being faced.


It's the wingnut way to look OUTSIDE and blame others OUT THERE. It's the Liberal way to self-examine and find out what's wrong inside.

Anybody who wants to can choose to look through DISNEY/rose-colored glasses and DENY. Have you really not known anybody close to you who said, "You'd have to pay me a lot more to do THAT job?"

Why do you imagine that undocumenteds were scarfed up for post-Katrina reconstruction, and for a time were paid regularly, but soon, the undocumenteds were abused, were not paid, and were threatened with the Border Patrol? Do you say that, whatever the numbers of unemployed were at that time, those numbers would have been sufficient to do ALL of the work? I think so.

[Oregone]

3. Guest worker program is a bunch of shit most often

Oh yeah, we need low paid people to come up and labor, but we'd be damned if they need long-term pensions, retirement planning, social security, and other entitlements granted to citizens (aka workers people really care about).

Its the next rung up from indentured servitude and slavery in my opinion.

[UTUSN]

5. Oh well then, continue with the Wingnuts on one side and the undocumented on the other n/t

[UTUSN]

7. HooKAY, I shall KICK and may not R and will/shall wait for generations to be validated. n/t

[UTUSN]

8. I forgotOUTSOURCING.Tothose who say it's false that undocumenteds do the work that U.S natives WON'T

Uh, have you heard of OUTSOURCING?!1 Cheap, non-unionized labor?!1


Yeah, you claim that U.S. natives will do ALL THE WORK. Uh, NO. Not at those prices. THAT's why jobs are OUTSOURCED.

And, those jobs TOO MENIAL to be outsourced are doled to UNDOCUMENTEDs.

[UTUSN]

9. & returning to the topic (IMMEDIACY), whenever the problem OR "solution" have IMMEDIACY

in it somewhere, it's a FALSE proposition.