When fact isn't fact

[proud2BlibKansan]

Thursday, May 13, 2010

When fact isn't fact

I've been carrying on an altogether civil e-mail discussion with writer Nancy Jane Moore about how to engage in political debate with folks who refuse to see facts as fact. How does one compromise or come to any kind of resolution on a political issue, for example, if one side looks at the math and declares that 2 + 2 = 4, and the other side looks at 2 + 2 and declares that the answer is "blue!" (That is from a joke about a former Kansas governor, but I digress.)

Today Hunter of Justice blogged about a Yale University study that did a terrific, and somewhat frightening, job of highlighting the problem.

Among opponents of gay and lesbian adoption who base their opposition on the welfare of children, only 22% say they would change their mind if shown convincing empirical evidence that children raised by gay and lesbian couples are just as likely to be healthy and well-adjusted as children raised by heterosexual couples.

That's painful. How can we resolve political debates if facts mean nothing to a large number of participants? The good news is that the Yale Cultural Cognition Project, which conducted the study, is working on finding solutiona to that problem. I look forward to seeing what they do.

http://hopeandpolitics.blogspot.com/2010/05/when-fact-isnt-fact.html

[CreatureFeature]

1. We see the exact same thing in several issues.

It is a problem with people on the right and the left. Many people are simply unwilling to acknowledge even the most obvious facts that contradict their own opinions.

[Catshrink]

2. Prime example: the Birfers

[zipplewrath]

3. I find it vastly more on the right

It's not that I don't find it on the left, but if nothing else, at least those on the left are uncomfortable or embarrassed when the facts don't go their way. On the right, they just ignore them and assert their belief.

[woo me with science]

4. LOL

Talk to the homeopaths.

[zipplewrath]

9. Oh boy

I could probably make a list of folks in this category. I'll resist because I'm not really trying to "call out" people here. But even on the left, you'll find "true believers" on certain topics that can ignore facts pretty easily. I just find it vastly less often than I do on the right. At the very least, they tend to be easier to embarrass with facts than the right.

[CreatureFeature]

5. I really think it depends on the person and also upon the issues being discussed

[zipplewrath]

6. I think it depends upon their general reliance of belief

One tends to find "faith base" thinking more on the right than the left, although there is definitely alot of "faith" in various aspects of the environmental movements. Even there though, I tend to find more embarrassment when the facts don't align with their "beliefs".

[woo me with science]

10. Are you kidding me?

Check out the woo forum here. Especially, check out the post count there as opposed to the other DU groups.

[bobbolink]

11. I would really like for you to be correct on this, but it isn't what I see.

Big example.... "progressives" keep going along with the meme that many if not most homeless people are "mentally ill". When shown the facts to the contrary, they not only AREN'T embarrassed, but they then follow up with a personal attack.

We would like to think we are different from the RW, but it is a difference in content, not in process.

[Odin2005]

7. Perfect example of "I reject your reality and substitute my own!"

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. Exactly

[walldude]

12. This worries me...

I was married to a pathological liar. She would say anything to be "right". Anything to win a debate or argument. It ended up ruining our marriage. I stayed with her for 15 years trying to get help, trying to make it work but I just couldn't do it. And that's what worries me, people like that don't "come around" they see what they want to see, they hear what they want to hear and they believe what they want to believe, and nothing can change their minds. You gotta figure that at Bush's lowest point he still had like 25% approval. Which means one quarter of Americans have no clue and never will, and they are proud of that fact.