Oh Boy! Mitt pissed off the fundies by not denying Evolution at the debate

[n2doc]

The Brody File


David Brody
CBN News Capitol Hill Correspondent


Mitt Romney's Campaign on Evolution
May 5, 2007



Kevin Madden, Mitt Romney's spokesman has responded to The Brody File question on whether Mitt Romney believes in Evolution. I wanted to know his thoughts about it because at the debate the other night only three candidates raised their hand expressing doubt about Evolution. Romney was not one of those candidates. Here's the Romney campaign response:

"Governor Romney believes both science and faith can help inform us about the origins of life in this world."

With all due respect, what does that mean exactly? It leaves me with more questions. I have asked for further clarification which I assume will be forthcoming here at the Brody File. I have now asked the Romney campaign specifically if he believes in Darwin's theory of Evolution or does he take the Creationist view? The answer above suggests that he may believe in both. I'm not saying he does. I'm just saying I'm a tad bit confused by the answer.

Here's the key point. The majority of Born Again Evangelicals take the Creationist viewpoint. Some Evangelicals already have concerns about Romney's Mormon faith. He needs support from Evangelicals to win. That's why this issue is an important one that needs to be cleared up. I don't think this is an issue that Romney can avoid. I believe his views need to be clear.

I understand Evolution can mean different things to different people and it can be a complicated issue. But Darwin's theory of Evolution is more clear cut. It is considered a "religion" of sorts by fundamentalist Christians. I fully realize that a Commander in Chief will not be making any "executive" decisions when it comes to Evolution. But since many Evangelicals are looking for a candidate with solid social issue conservative beliefs, Evolution enters the equation along with abortion and gay marriage. What say you? As a believer in the Creationist viewpoint, do you want to hear what Romney has to say on this or do you even care? I'll post your comments.


http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/152174.aspx

Come on, Mitt- Join your fellow luddites!

[YOY]

1. I refuse to believe that a strong percentage of the population accepts this shit

To me it's a hands-down turn off for a candidate and I can't see why any non-fundie republican would even consider someone so damn stupid...

Then again they are republicans...

[NewJeffCT]

2. Why can't they just say

God's Hand is what caused evolution and guided the creation of Man? If not for Him, the world would be a pile of sludge that never became life.

[mwb970]

7. Some of the Intelligent Design folks may be open to this idea.

(Which is close to the way I think of it.) But once you have a 6000-year-old Universe, evolution has got to go.

[xultar]

8. No kidding. They could say God is the big bang or set it off. But they

would rather think some crazy shit. I'm sure thee three monkeys take prescriptions. I'm sure they go to the doctor.
What ignorant asses. They should pack up their fuckin campaign offices.

[NewJeffCT]

11. Hasn't the Pope even said that?

or, am I mistaken? Something like God being the Cause of Causes?

I'm an atheist, so I'm not up to date on the pronouncements of religious leaders unless it's something that stands out in my mind.

[Prophet 451]

18. Something like that

The Pope said something like "the Catholic church accepts that evolution is now more than just a theory" in the mid-nineties. Ex-cathedra, he's also elaborated by describing God as the "Prime Cause", the instigator of the Big Bang.

Which makes sense to me and as a believr (although not a Christian), is more or less how I pictured things. If you can predict how things will turn out, what's a few billion years to a supreme being?

[spoony]

23. Sort of like watching your child grow

versus adopting a thirty year old :)

[Prophet 451]

38. More or less

Although now I have a mental picture of God saying "oh, bless their little hearts, they've discovered fire"...

[yellowcanine]

30. I believe there has been some backtracking on that with Pope Benny. Could be wrong, but I

thought I read something to that effect. It was John Paul II I believe who laid down the marker in favor of Darwinian evolution, though he may have made an exception for humans, I am not sure.

[TahitiNut]

13. The answer is easy. "Anthropocentrism." If they admit to evolution ...

... then they'd have to admit that 'homo sapiens' probably isn't the culmination -- that we're STILL evolving. Since their 'theology' is based on some God whose sole objective was to place 'man' at the pinnacle of all Creation (that's a 'God' subordinate to 'man'), the notion that some future species would evolve from homo sapiens would tend to contradict the anthropocentric view of Creation.

Think about it. It invalidates the perverted tenet of a secularized 'faith' that subordinates God and Creation to Man ... a perversion that's been used to give license to all manner of corruptions, including the rape of the planet and the eradication of other species.

[n2doc]

17. And..the world was all created so that we could be here for a short time

before being "raptured" up to heaven forever. Seems like a lot of work to make something as complex as the Universe just ot have it all destroyed 6000 years later, don't ya think? :silly:

[DBoon]

24. Evolution means change is inevitable and is good

to the fundamentalist, the laws and workings of their universe are unchanging, otherwise all of their absolute moral precepts are open to question.

[gatorboy]

15. You know, when I asked this question in Catholic school.

That's essentially the answer I got. They even told me that the 6 day creation timetable shouldn't be taken literally.

Why do these other folks have to take this stuff so literal?

They probably don't even realize that folks were burned alive when they originally tried to translate the Bible into English.

[Marrah_G]

3. My father was a Math and Science teacher

Also a devout Catholic who spent a couple years in the seminary. He has no problem rationalizing faith and evolution together. It doesn't have to be an either or thing. Science should be taught in school, religion in church. That is how I was raised. I am no longer a catholic (never really was) but even today I have no problem mixing science and faith. I thank my parents for that.

[Clark2008]

6. Bravo!!!

It was never an issue when I was growing up: it was accepted that evolution does occur and that God guided it. Not an 'either/or' proposition.

[NewJeffCT]

10. While the Catholic Church has had its problems

and certainly is not infallible, they were a center of learning in Europe for centuries, and some top notch universities in this country are Catholic - Notre Dame, Georgetown, Villanova, etc. Somehow, I doubt they teach their students to deny evolution at those colleges.

[Skidmore]

16. A fair amount of learning happened in spite of the Catholic Church

and its attempts to stifle scholars and books over the centuries.

[spoony]

22. Well, more not than so.

When Christianity became part of the Roman Empire it became an institution of learning. If it were not for the tenacity of monks copying manuscripts, between the savage pillaging by Germanic and Nordic tribes, most classic texts would have been snuffed out.

[Little Wing]

4. Someone tell me "CBN News Capitol Hill Correspondent" is just a made-up title

and the Christian Broadcast Network News doesn't get its own WhiteHouse liaison

[tanyev]

5. Litmus kit! Get yer fundie litmus kit!

[zbdent]

9. You know, there's ample evidence that we are descended from apes

I mean, look at Scalia ...

[YOY]

25. As an Italian American I take offense to that

Not that I bear too much else in common with the man.

[zbdent]

26. Not intending to insult Italians

but geeez, look at the man ...

[YOY]

29. He looks like my dad.

My father is nothing like the man in personality, but I can't deny the resemblance. I'm probably going to look like that in 30 years, but with a much better disposition. We're no prizewinners, but we hardly resemble gorillas.

and Catholics (even the most idiotic hardliners) do not believe in creationism bs, so please don't connect Italians (albeit RW assholes) to the fundies!

Not to be snippy here, but I rather take it personally.

[zbdent]

31. You are the one tying my reference to Scalia as being

an attack on Italians ... I'm making the case that the guy looks like he just got his knuckles off the ground.

If his name was Joe Smith, I would be making the same observation!

You should have your dad pose in a black robe in amusing situations and pass them off as "Scalia" in embarassing situations ...

:)

[YOY]

33. I guess when you've had family told to sleep in the 'colored' motel down South in the 50s

you learn to sympathise a bit when someone compares your phenotype to a knuckledragger.

I really don't think my father would do it (swing voter...whereas the rest of the family aside one cousin are dems.)

Although I must admit that the image would be priceless.... :)

[YOY]

28. He looks like my dad

My father is nothing like the man in personality, but I can't deny the resemblance. I'm probably going to look like that in 30 years, but with a much better disposition. We're no prizewinners, but we hardly resemble gorillas.

and Catholics (even the most idiotic hardliners) do not believe in creationism bs, so please don't connect Italians (albeit RW assholes) to the fundies!

Not to be snippy here, but I rather take it personally.

[yellowcanine]

34. Well I don't know where you place Brownback but he is a Catholic convert

and a creationist. Rick Santorum also is Catholic. And Santorum was a vocal supporter of ID, a stalking horse for creationism, in the Senate. So I think you might need to qualify that. There are some prominent conservative Catholics pushing creationism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santorum_Amendment

[YOY]

36. I can and I will

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creationism

"The Roman Catholic Church now explicitly accepts the theory of Evolution,<11> as do Anglican scholars of which Rev Dr John Polkinghorne FRS is a prime example, arguing that evolution is one of the principles through which God created living beings. Earlier examples of this attitude include Frederick Temple, Asa Gray and Charles Kingsley who were enthusiastic supporters of Darwin's theories upon their publication,<12> and the French Jesuit priest and geologist Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, saw evolution as confirmation of his Christian beliefs, despite condemnation from Church authorities for his more speculative theories. Another example is that of Liberal theology, which assumes that Genesis is a poetic work, and that just as human understanding of God increases gradually over time, so does the understanding of His creation. In fact, both Jews and Christians have been considering the idea of the creation history as an allegory (instead of an historical description) long before the development of Darwin's theory of evolution. Two notable examples are Saint Augustine (4th century) who argued on theological grounds that everything in the universe was created by God in the same instant (and not in seven days as a plain account of Genesis would require);<13> and the 1st century Jewish scholar Philo of Alexandria, who wrote that it would be a mistake to think that creation happened in six days, or in any set amount of time.<14>"

"Man on Dog" Santorum and Brownass are assclowns who are reaching out to fundamentalist Protestants. No Catholic school I have every heard of teaches that bullshit. Most Catholics laugh at the silliness of the ID. Anyone who tells you otherwise is an idiot and is not nor ever has been Catholic nor have they even studied Catholic beleifs.

The church has a good many faults. Pushing the BS that is "creation theory" is not one of those faults. I'd like to think they learned a thing or two from what they did to Copernicus.

Now if you want to be nasty to the Catholic church I reccomend getting pissed at the molestor priest cover ups and their overzealous anti-abortion work. But don't paint all Catholics in the ligth of the worst.

[yellowcanine]

37. Whoa - I merely pointed out that your statement, "Catholics (even the most idiotic hardliners) do

not believe in creationism bs,..." was not correct, and cited two notable examples, Brownback and Santorum. I said nothing about Catholics in general or about the Catholic Church, so your quotation of the official Catholic Church on evolution is not relevant. I said that you may want to "qualify" your statement about even the most idiotic hardliners not being creationists, not prove to me what the Catholic Church position is. You are beating the wrong drum here in your zeal to defend the Catholic position. The fact is, there is a small group of Catholics (and not just Catholics, Anglicans and Episcopalians) who are increasingly aligning themselves with fundamentalist Protestants on social issues based on a literalist reading of the Bible that goes well beyond the Vatican teaching. I never said nor even implied that this was a general position of the Catholic Church.

[YOY]

39. Not really zealous to defend the "Catholic position"

Just pointing out that in 13 years of Catholic Schooling, 22 years of Catholicism, and 10 years of jaded agnosticism (all in a highly Catholic region) I have never once met a Catholic who believes in literal interpretation of Genesis.

And trust me all those Catholics I met, there were some scary folks. There were scary ultra-pro life people, gay bashers, creepy priests, and other assorted nastiness in addition to the primarily well intentioned majority of Catholics.

What Brownback and Santorum say to the Republican base and what they believe are two different things. These are Republicans we are talking about.

[MaineYooper]

12. It is considered a "religion" of sorts by fundamentalist Christians.

Well that's just because they don't know their a** from a hole in the ground when it comes to science.

Bill Maher put it best. You don't have to give "both sides" of a story when one side is utter bulls***.

[Blackhatjack]

14. When you depend on fundamentalists to elect you, then you have to go all the way....

I am betting that he got a 'dressing down' by Falwell and/or Dobson, or one of their staff, after that debate.

It is interesting that a Repub could be 'sunk' for not promoting an idea that his fundamentalist base insists must be upheld that the majority of the American people do not embrace.

Someone who wants to sink Romney could easily come up with a list of Mormon beliefs that would seriously tick off the fundamentalists. And I would be willing to bet that the Repub opposition research already has that list -- ready to be used if Romney does not tank on his own.

[elocs]

19. I think the majority of fundamentalists believe that Mormonism is a cult.

They believe that it pretends to be mainline Christianity, but it is really a wolf in sheep's clothing, masquerading in order to deceive people that it is Christian, which in their eyes makes it worse than if it was a non-Christian religion. No, it is not a cult to them where people are killing themselves or doing bad things, but in their belief Mormonism is risking souls. When push comes to shove, some fundamentalist will trot out a list of Mormon beliefs which Romney will have to deal with over and over and over again. He loses either way.

[rurallib]

20. Repukes in a pickle here. If they say something rational their base

goes nuts. Once they get the nomination they will have to retreat from all the shit they said to get picked.

[xultar]

21. Fuck'em. Cement the lid on that pickle jar and put it in the darkest corner of the basement.

[yellowcanine]

27. Hoisted on the wannabe wingnut petard. Good. And saying "I believe in both"

is a bit of a copout. That wasn't the question. The honest answer would have been, "The scientific evidence points to Darwinian evolution and I trust the science." The question was not about origins of life. Once again waffleboy is trying to have it both ways.

[kwolf68]

32. Damn idiots

"That's why this issue is an important one that needs to be cleared up. "


Nothing about feeding the hungry, curing the sick, bringing peace to the world??????? Damn right-wing Nazi freakas Christofascists. If we could just stamp out evolution, these idiots wouldn't care if we nuked the whole damn world.

[Ganja Ninja]

35. OK! Well I guess that pretty much says it all conservatives.

You can't be a conservative and believe in evolution. The evangelicals have spoken. How do you like your Republican Party now? Sorry but I think you're stuck with them as long as you keep voting for politicians that insist on pandering to them.

[derby378]

40. And besides, evolution was invented by the Jews...

:sarcasm: