Something about conspiracies

[Ardent15]

I was watching an old episode of Bill Maher's "Politically Incorrect" from 2001 (pre-9/11), and George Carlin and some Republican tool were among the guests.

When Maher and Carlin argued that there were severe conflicts of interests with Bush's picks for Cabinet positions, the Republican was quick to say, "there is no conspiracy to buy elections and grab power" or something like that.

Carlin then said, "You don't need a formal conspiracy when interests converge. These people (the Bush/Cheney people) went to the same colleges, they sit on the same boards of directors, they're part of the same country clubs, and they know what's good for them."

I'm not much of a conspiracy theory guy. But Carlin's words from 2001 are still relevant today. Interests converge throughout history, and many horrible things happen because of shared self-interest. Of course, many good things happen as well.

[ProgressiveVictory]

1. I don't like the arguments about they went to the same schools and know the same people

That sounds just like beckkk and his stupid ideas.

[hughee99]

2. Yes, but it's okay if you're talking about repukes. n/t

[ProgressiveVictory]

3. oh ok

[starroute]

4. There's an asymmetry between the left and right

The rich really do all go to the same schools, belong to the same country clubs, and marry into each other's families. It isn't even conspiracies with them so much as just friends doing favors for friends.

Grassroots activists, in contrast, come from all over and don't necessarily know each other. But the right, in its well-known pattern of blaming the left for everything it does, has to make up conspiracy theories in which all kinds of unrelated individuals and groups are plotting the downfall of Western civilization together.

This is why it's perfectly sane when the left accuses the right of colluding -- but total batshit crazy when Glenn Beck accuses the left of elaborate multi-generational conspiracies.

[leveymg]

13. It sounds like C. Wright Mills. The politics of social affinity groups isn't exactly a radical idea

or anything new. Read Plutarch's Lives, and you'll see the same class conflict, and intra-class warfare, at work in the Roman Empire.

[glitch]

5. Carlin was correct, as usual. To equate his statement with Beck's is ludicrous. nt

[nashville_brook]

6. [phone]

[Hydra]

7. You might want to take a deeper look at various "Conspiracies"

You'll have trouble sleeping at night, but you may have a better idea of what's going on behind the scenes.

I wasn't alive at the time, but the Gulf of Tonkin was probably considered a "conspiracy theory." Given enough time, most of it comes out.

[Hannah Bell]

8. i was alive. it was indeed considered a conspiracy theory (though that phrase wasn't used) to claim

that the gulf of tonkin incident was a fraud.

some wild-eyed nonsense found in obscure leftist papers.

other conspiracy theories:

the us helped overthrow various latin america & middle eastern governments.
the us government did experiments on prisoners, medical patients & developmentally delayed without consent.
us government/intelligence actors involved in drug dealing
financial speculators' actions hiked grain prices in 2008
us government spied on mlk
us government engaged in covert actions to undermine the black panthers & students movements
us had plans to commit terrorist acts & blame them on other actors

etc.

crazy stuff.

[Hydra]

9. *nods*

Thanks Hannah. You didn't even get into my pet favorites- MKUltra among them(although that may count under "experimentation").

As you say, crazy stuff. Makes me wonder just how big the black iceberg is when we're just seeing the tip.

[Hannah Bell]

11. those are all ones that were rumors, or found in obscure leftist papers,

or speculated to be the case before they were found to be the case. maybe there's ones so weird they're not even speculated about -- truly under the radar.

i really don't understand how people can roll their eyes about "conspiracies". conspiracies are ubiquitous in social life, from the time the three little girls get together & say "let's not talk to betty" to the grave. in business, in politics -- people conspire all the time, in small & large ways, for good or evil.

[canetoad]

12. There's a rule on DU

That broad brush smears are not acceptable. Thus it surprises me that the term 'woo woo' is allowed when describing topics ranging from alien abduction to the examples you presented above.

[laughingliberal]

10. That is so right on. Their interests converge & they know what is good for them.

Thus, when they gain power, they know what to do.