Police Tasered an 86-year-old disabled grandma in her bed and stepped on her oxygen hose

[The Straight Story]

'Don't Taze My Granny!'

(CN) - Police Tasered an 86-year-old disabled grandma in her bed and stepped on her oxygen hose until she couldn't breathe, after her grandson called 911 seeking medical assistance, the woman and her grandson claim in Oklahoma City Federal Court. Though the grandson said, "Don't Taze my granny!" an El Reno police officer told another cop to "Taser her!" and wrote in his police report that he did so because the old woman "took a more aggressive posture in her bed," according to the complaint.

Lonnie Tinsley claims that he called 911 after he went to check on his grandmother, whom he found in her bed, "connected to a portable oxygen concentrator with a long hose." She is "in marginal health, takes several prescribed medications daily," and "was unable to tell him exactly when she had taken her meds," so, Tinsley says, he called 911 "to ask for an emergency medical technician to come to her apartment to evaluate her."

In response, "as many as ten El Reno police" officers "pushed their way through the door," according to the complaint.
The grandma, Lona Varner, "told them to get out of her apartment."

The remarkable complaint continues: "Instead, the apparent leader of the police instructed another policeman to 'Taser her!' He stated in his report that the 86 year-old plaintiff 'took a more aggressive posture in her bed,' and that he was fearful for his safety and the safety of others.

http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/06/24/28330.htm

[MichiganVote]

1. Well that's ten wasted public employee salaries.

[bluestateguy]

18. Somehow people like them never get canned when there are budget cuts

nt

[mr clean]

65. Sad, isn't it?

No matter how they f-up, LEOs will always defend their own.

[awoke_in_2003]

105. They will be here soon...

we have a couple

[tblue37]

172. Paulsby always used to defend such things before he got TS'd.

[awoke_in_2003]

174. yep...

there are a couple more out there, but I don't want to be accused of a callout

[Hassin Bin Sober]

202. You could take a screen cap of the gungeon.

[jmondine]

128. Of course not. Police are macho, social services are not.

Our society, and especially the right wingers, have an almost psychotic machismo complex. Until we address it, this will always, always be the case.

[rpannier]

170. They usually make the most busts

Often high profile busts

Often they use evidence they created... I mean placed... I mean found

Then everyone is shocked and appalled that this happened

[Old Codger]

165. actually

10 wasting oxygen...........

[Nikki Stone1]

184. Actually, Michigan, it's about the takeover of police training by DHS

Local police forces have been receiving more and more training from Homeland Security and, as a result, the methods have gotten more and more brutal. Do we know the color and ethnicity of this 86-year-old woman and her son?

[Orrex]

2. Good thing that they tasered her.

She was probably about to jump out of bed and go on a wild, bare-handed killing spree.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

28. The story doesn't say but she was a Brazilian Jujitsu master. Taught the Gracies everything.

[Orrex]

29. I'll bet that she knows a brazillion killing moves.

Say goodnight, Gracies!

[a la izquierda]

154. Iced Tea, meet floor

That's pretty hilarious.

[FloridaJudy]

99. Yeah. She probably would have gummed them to death. eom

[TwilightGardener]

3. How does one take an "aggressive posture" in bed--do you go from

lying to...semi-sitting?

[Bitwit1234]

22. Maybe she shook the hose at them or hissed

about all someone hooked up to oxygen can do. This is one time I would file a lawsuit. Even if they didn't get anything it would bring all the crap to light.

[Hawkowl]

44. She put her heels behind her head

Wait. Is that aggressive or just inviting?

[whathehell]

143. Isn't that kind of

a nasty, disrespectful thing to say about a sick 86 year old woman?:eyes:

[XanaDUer]

150. WTF?

And older sick woman was fucking tased while in her bed. What the fuck is up with you?

[TheEuclideanOne]

191. That is so wrong, but I just can't stop laughing

Yes, I know I will burn in hell.

[Mickeyc1004]

135. Maybe she had that back off

Or "it will get the hose!" Silence of the lambs look in her eyes.


Really, what they did is so pathetic that it doesn't even seem like it could be real. Maybe it really all took place in the twilight zone or on the Outer limits.


When is enough, enough?

[Politicalboi]

153. In the Twilight Zone Robert Redford

Played a cop, but he was actually Mr. Death.

[Mendocino]

77. "But she threw her bedpan at me

and cracked her O2 line like a whip... and threw a bowl of stewed prunes..I feared for my life...I had no choice but to take her out."

[Canuckistanian]

4. I thought this was a joke

But the only joke here seems to be the El Reno Police Department.

Sue 'em Granny.

[Dappleganger]

5. Was she gonna hit them with her pillow??

Aren't they the BIG MAN!!

[Jamastiene]

62. I hope none of those cops have daughters.

I'd HATE to send a kid to one of their daughters' slumber parties. Poor thing would be arrested and tazered for having a pillow fight.

[Yeahyeah]

6. Sounds realistic.

[SomeGuyInEagan]

7. Did they kick her dog as well?

Or did they call in some back-up for that job?

[Bonobo]

8. All SOP, the cops did nothing wrong.

Soft to hard.

What do you want them to do? In the old days, it would have been billy clubs.

You ca't expect cops to put their lives on the line. She wasn't killed, so it was a job well done.

I'll wait for the video/investigation before making a judgment.

Have you ever worn the uniform?

You're being "ageist" if you think that an 86-year old can't kill someone.

Etc.

[MadMaddie]

17. Bonobo in this case a little common sense would have prevailed

this was a medical call, she could have been disoriented. She is using oxygen....

I would also like to hear more about this.

Why not call a woman officer to calm her down.

Tasering someone hooked up to oxygen is not exactly a smart move.

[Bonobo]

20. Sorry you don't support the police.

What if she had a knife or a gun under her pillow?

It is job of the police to enforce the law, not endanger themselves.

If this woman threatened the police, she deserved whatever happened to her and if my grandmother did the same, I'd tell her what a stupid fool she was.

Etc.

[PM Martin]

21. BREAK THE POLICE UNIONS!

Unlike yourself, I will make it clear that I am not being sarcastic. Police are the state and do not need union representation.

[demosincebirth]

23. I don't think there are any unions in Okla.

[CBGLuthier]

64. The cops got a union. And yes, there are still some union jobs here

GM was here until they decided Mexico is a better place to build american cars.

[we can do it]

84. Exactly What Does a Union Have To Do with This?

[EOTE]

95. Unions provide police with a lot of protections.

Protection for when they do unconscionable shit like this. The officers who attacked that grandma need to be locked up for a GOOD long time. With the protections they receive, it's unlikely any of them will do time. The police are a fucking joke. I have zero respect for them.

[Yeahyeah]

27. Those 86 year old bedridden women are notoriously quick on the draw.

And can gut you in 2 seconds with a nail file.

[Jennicut]

34. It was a 911 call. I am a diabetic. If my daughter called 911 for me if I

was experiencing hypoglycemia and then was out if it with the police (and you can become disoriented, confused and even belligerent when your blood sugar is severely low) would it be okay to taser me? Sheesh.

[Bonobo]

35. No, but I might demand you have your sarcasm circuits checked. nt

[Grinchie]

158. When did you have your soul removed?

You don't even know what the poster was talking about and you are pulling feces out of your ass and flinging it.

I guess that's why you chose that image of a chimpanzee to identify with..

Bad Monkey!

[Bonobo]

171. You completely misunderstood the interaction.

But that's okay. I don't really care that much.

It is too complex and convoluted to bother.

[tblue37]

181. Bonobo was sarcastically repeating the defenses that are typically offered for the cop's

actions. The poster with diabetes then posted his/her response in such a way that he/she was technically replying to Bonobo's comment #20. Since Bonobo's comment was intended to be a parody of the cop-defenders' usual lines, the reply by the diabetic poster seemed to be a misunderstanding of Bonobo's sarcasm, treating it as though he/she meant it seriously rather than as a parody.

I don't think the diabetic poster actually meant to respond to Bonobo's post, but because he/she clicked the reply button to Bonobo's post, that is the one he/ she seems to be inappropriately replying to.

[Grinchie]

204. Those are the hazards of Blogging

While it is admirable for you to explain in detail the cause and effect, as a person who knows a Type 1 diabetic, and has seen insulin shock first hand, Bonobo's post was absolutely unacceptable.

Have Your Sarcasm Circuits Checked? Are you kidding me, after he with out any indication spouted off the previous nonsense without the slightest hint that it was supposed to be "Funny"?

It was insulting and insensistive, and only later did he run for cover, like it's our fault for misinterpreting his lack of sensistivity.

1 in 5 Americans has diabetes... People on primitive diets have NO diabetes. Thats one in 20 people that are married to Injections or pill, and needle sticks 3 times a day, including infants.

Diabetics have been promised a cure for 20 years, but there is so much money in the consumables that the cure has never materialized, lest it destroy Billions of dollars of profits for the drug companies.

I have seen my partner suffer insulin shock and go into coma.. It's terrifying. Now throw a Brute cop into the mix and you have a situation.

So while I admire your explanation, Bonobo is on my A-List of insensitive, uneducated apes. His avatar is most appropriate, don't you think?

[Grinchie]

157. Exactly - Insulin Shock is nasty business, and since all cops must be Diabetes free..

They care not, since it's not in their vocabulary.

These brutal, irresponsible and stupid cops are just a sign of the times, a harbingers of the turmoil to come if you ask me. They hide behind Corporation Counsel, paid for with state moneys, are immune from Assault and Battery charges due to their status as LEO's, and, if they are assualted, get enhanced protection from the courts, by law, because you gotta give these poor guys a break, huh?

While commons sense would indicate that this protection via law is a good deterrant, it is occasionally used against the victim of a bull headed, pissed off police offer that abuses his authority for whatever reason.

Every cop that has answered a police call looks frightened like a rabbit out here. It's disturbing when 10 cops show up and they all look like they are ready to draw weapons when responding to a medical emergency.

[tblue37]

198. OMG! I just read the second article about the incident the OP refers to,

and the last paragraph of the article says that the very same police department did tase someone for being in diabetic shock, which they interpreted as being "uncooperative":

El Reno police last faced controversy over using a Taser in November 2008 when an uncooperative driver was shocked after a crash. The police chief said later officers had no way of knowing the driver was in diabetic shock. A video of the 2008 incident was widely circulated on the Internet.

Read more: http://newsok.com/oklahoma-granny-gets-shocked-by-taser-sues-el-reno-police/article/3471297?custom_click=headlines_widget#ixzz0rvURyTij

Don't these idiot police departments provide any freaking training to their recruits?

[tblue37]

180. Diabetics have often been Tased by cops for acting odd.

They typically say the diabetic was "combative" and "seemed drunk."

Cops used to be trained to know the signs of diabetic distress--now they just tase diabetics.

One diabetic in a coma was tased because he was not obeying the cop's orders!

I collect these stories and links to them. I have a huge file of them on my computer.

One 71-year-old deaf, half-blind woman with a glass eye was tackled and tased by cops because she didn't hear them and obey when they told her to stop walking out to pick up an item left over from her garage sale. Her glass eye flew out in the street when they tackled her. When her 94-year-old mother brought out a small Tupperware bowl of water to clean the eye, the cops assaulted her too, because they said they thought she might use the bowl of water as a weapon.

Yes, I have that link in my files. too.

I have so many, and they are so bizarre, that at one time I would not have believe them myself if someone had told me about them--if I hadn't seen the actual articles with my own eyes. Now I believe almost any horror story, since it is ahrd to imagien anything worse than the sorts of things they seem to do automatically.

[Hugabear]

42. You are injecting hypotheticals into a situation where there weren't any

She was in her bed. IF she had pulled out a gun or a knife, then perhaps use of a taser might have been justified. But using a taser simply to subdue a woman who is resisting while in her bed? I don't suppose that stepping back, talking to the woman, trying to get her to calm down would have been a viable option, eh? Screw that. TAZE THE OLD HAG.

[tblue37]

182. Bonobo was PARODYING the kinds of excuses and defenses that the

cop defenders' typically use. The post was not meant to be taken seriously. It was a parody.

[SkyDaddy7]

58. Give it a break!

I thought you just forgot to add the sarcasm tag but instead you are one of those "cops do no wrong" people.

Some of us have the common sense to know an 86 yr old woman in bed is little to no threat to anyone!

I have no idea whether to be angered by your blind devotion to idiots just because they wear a uniform or to feel complete sorrow for you...Maybe a little of both.

[Bonobo]

68. I'm happy to have angered you.

That seems to be the most effective way.

I have bashed my head against walls starting OPs and weighing in on these types of threads rallying AGAINST violence by US police.

I think America is living in a fog of fear that has allowed the police to grow into a force of fierce, cruel bullies.

I have watched over the last 20 years as more and more local police forces arm themselves with SWAT units that they don't need and watched as the public allows this to happen because they live in an environment of fear and think it is better to have a strong police force. They do not seem to realize the danger of the growth of the police and prison industries.

So forgive my use of sarcasm to make a point.

I am glad it has worked to some degree.

Fight it people because it doesn't have to be this way. Americans do not need an out of control police force as judge, jury and executioner.

Things have gotten way out of control and Americans are in danger of beginning to sympathize with this needless power trip that cops are on.

We need to start hiring politicians and police to protect and serve us. This kind of madness cannot be allowed.

[SkyDaddy7]

96. Whatever...I think your tactics...

would work better in place where more folks do support the police regardless. I know there are one or two here on DU as far as I have seen and no one takes them seriously as most did not take your comment seriously.

You really got no where with me as I have seen this growth in police brutality firsthand!

The news concentrates on the brutality and not near as much as they should...However, the disgusting behavior can be seen in the courtrooms across this country as cops lie on the stand all the time, most civilians think what a cop says is always reliable, cops talk to each other after taking the stand while the trial is still ongoing and other cops have yet to testify. Cops lie and change police reports, they alter crime scenes and they get away with it.

Judges & DA's work with cops and protect them even when a sharp defense lawyer catches cops lying on the stand or changing police reports.

Politicians are scared to say or do anything out of fear they will be labeled soft on crime or unpatriotic...So, the problem continues to get worse.

Tazzers were originally sold to the public as a means for cops to be able to subdue a drug crazed person without shooting them, folks with knives or trying to commit suicide by cop...But the reality is cops are still shooting these people and tazzing children, folks in wheelchairs without legs, pregnant women, and the elderly...OLD WOMEN IN A BED!

So, whatever it was you were trying to do failed bad! All you did was make several ignore list and mad others mad...You did nothing to make people think.

Maybe you should THINK?

[Bonobo]

101. Okay, then I am sorry. nt

[indepat]

131. Are you saying there is really no need to have the brown-shirts and SS-wanna-bees

running amok? May this old bunny second that? :thumbsup:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

147. I knew you were being sarcastic and echoing exactly the same arguments that others have used

But you probably should have used the sarcasm smiley just to be sure.

[Bonobo]

173. Lydia, I hate that sarcasm smiley.

It kinda defeats the purpose of good sarcasm, which needs to be skating close to the edge to have a real bite.

[droidamus2]

149. Bad training

I think over the years the idea the LEOs should 'control a situation' has warped into the idea that anything that pisses off an officer is reason enough to kick the shit out of somebody or taser them. Cops these days expect you to ask 'how high' when they say jump. The most important thing to these officers in any situation is to be feared and obeyed any indication that you don't fear them is met with force. Even, if like this young man did, you are just trying to calmly explain what is going on if the cop says shut up and you don't then you are 'disturbing the peace' and 'resisting arrest' therefore start checking your medical insurance because you could be in for a beating. As I always add in these cases there are good cops who do an excellent job but any 'good cop' that protects bad cops when they screwup is in the end decidedly NOT a good cop. Do you get the same feeling I do that these kinds of cops have in their mind that they can do anything they want and all they have to do is come up with some half-assed reason and their bosses will back them up?

[Grinchie]

161. Your post number #35 says a lot about your Mea Culpa.

I don't buy it Bonobo, you crossed the line and expect to defuse it by now talking out of the other side of your faces..

It basically just paints a portrait of someone that has no conviction whatsoever, and will say whatever he thinks people want to hear.

Don't worry, you are quite common in today's society.

[Bonobo]

175. Ummmm, your post makes no sense.

And is completely wrong.

But...that's okay.

[tblue37]

185. I wish all of you people jumping on Bonobo would read the post more carefully. He/she is

is obviously parodying the standard defense of cops that outrageously and brutally abuse harmless and vulnerable citizens.

[tblue37]

183. ?? Bonobo's #20 was *obviously* a parody, not to be taken seriously! nt

[northernlights]

67. oh my gawd...

I thought you were being sarcastic above...

Man am I glad you are NOT my grandkid, kid or relation. Wow. Simply wow.

Hopefully you will manage to live to 86. We'll see how dangerous you are, confined to bed and on O2.

[Bonobo]

69. Please see my post above.

[northernlights]

70. just saw it. thank you. phew!

still hope you live to 86 or so :P


The full article is even worse. They tasered twice, causing burns, then injured her further. What a bunch of fucktards. Hope they end up doing hard time. :grr: :grr: :grr:


"He stated in his report that the 86 year-old plaintiff 'took a more aggressive posture in her bed,' and that he was fearful for his safety and the safety of others.

"Lonnie Tinsley told them, 'Don't taze my Granny!' to which they responded that they would Taser him; instead, they pulled him out of her apartment, took him down to the floor, handcuffed him and placed him in the back of a police car.
"The police then proceeded to approach Ms. Varner in her bed and stepped on her oxygen hose until she began to suffer oxygen deprivation.
"The police then fired a Taser at her and only one wire struck her, in the left arm; the police then fired a second Taser, striking her to the right and left of the midline of her upper chest and applied high voltage, causing burns to her chest, extreme pain and to pass out.
"The police then grabbed Ms. Varner by her forearms and jerked hands together, causing her soft flesh to tear and bleed on her bed; they then handcuffed her.

[Tunkamerica]

156. This whole sub-thread is hilarious.

It is basically a test to see who knows what sarcasm is and who just doesn't get it.

[NobleCynic]

167. It is like an instructional manual for Poe's Law

There is a point beyond which it is impossible to tell if one is a fundamentalist or making fun of fundamentalists.

[northernlights]

168. I know what sarcasm is

I took the initial response as sarcasm. It was the response to the response that led me to think I was mistaken...until I was corrected. If ya know what I mean.

[Bonobo]

176. Why did you think I added "Etc." at the end of both posts?

That didn't make it clear that I was "mimicking" the voices of others' arguments?

[tblue37]

186. He/She IS being sarcastic and parodying the standard defenses of abusive cops. nt

[MadMaddie]

86. Bonobo apparantly you haven't read many of my posts

I am a former police officer. I know what the training is comprised of and I know the situations these officers face everyday.

I will support the police when they do the right thing according to their training. Now it is possible their training maybe greatly lacking.

In this case if you have several large male police officers and a bed ridden woman who is on oxygen, a taser should have been the last thing to be used. (Maybe you don't know oxygen and sparks are usually not a good combination)

If you want to go back and look at the case in Seattle where the office punched the girl that assaulted him I was one of the few who supported the officer.

Law enforcement and the survival of the officers is based on good training, instinct and most importantly common sense.

To wear the uniform is something that I respect. I will leave it at that.

[Bonobo]

87. I don't disrespect the job, just the way it is done.

It is my belief that Americans and police in America live in an environment so permeated with fear that a wedge has been driven between the police and the people they wish to serve and protect.

The proof of this is not only to be seen all over youtube, but is written in the faces of people of color, people with long hair, shabby clothes, etc. whenever the police are near.

Police react too much out of fear for their own safety and not enough out of a feeling of serving people.

Perhaps it is the training, perhaps it is the pool of people we draw on to become police, perhaps it is the society at large.

But something needs to change. I wish things were different.

[MadMaddie]

107. We are in agreement!

The economy is also a factor right now. Police/Fire etc are getting cut as cost savings....too few responders to an increasing call load. I don't have time now but I am pretty confident that there is a direct correlation between the two. Having community stations help build the trust betweet the police and the community, there is no money to do that now.

[liberation]

123. LOL

;-)

Very well played, etc.

[xxqqqzme]

129. What law was being broken and required 'enforcement'?

The grandson calls for medical evaluation and 10 cops show up? What law is that again?

A gun under the pillow is a little off the beam don't you think? Discharging a gun around oxygen? Oh, yea, that would be my first thought as well.

[tblue37]

187. A joke! A parody! Satire! He/She was NOT serious!!!!!!! nt

[HillbillyBob]

139. He called for medical help

Not the law, they cop was clearly in the wrong. I hve yet to see anyone that age with oxygen able to kill any thing unless she was holding a gun.
Or do you just have a reading comprehension problem or did you not read the article at all?
I clearly missed the sarcasm.
Sorry to jump the gun but I was pepper sprayed on my living room floor after a thief broke in and clobbered me with a cast skillet from the stove. Was a former house guest who started smoking crack and I had put him out he came back to steal the rent, then called the police and said I had tried to kill him..all I remember was bleeding all over the floor with a broken cheek, teeth and nose. Then a seizure and came to with them spraying pepper spray in my eyes and mouth while backhanding the shit out of me.. It gets worse. I almost died from infection and no medical care and at the time I was on an IV med for 3 hrs a day.

[Bonobo]

177. Damn, that's terrible.

I am so sorry that happened to you.

By the way, I am with you entirely. My post was sarcastic.

[sam sarrha]

148. THEY ARE OBLIGATED TO BEHAVE AS PROFESSIONALS.. NOT THUGS..

[rustydog]

164. She didn't. by your definition, a police officer can shoot

anyone they come in contact because they MIGHT have a concealed weapon.
Obviously, you do not wear the uniform. If you do, you need retraining.

[tblue37]

188. He was parodying the typical excuses. His post was not meant to be taken seriously!!!! nt

[grahamhgreen]

193. Z

[elias49]

197. self delete

[Chulanowa]

51. Bonobo is being sarcastic

At least I fucking hope to Santa Christ that bonobo is being sarcastic. Around here it can be hard to tell; Kult of the Kop and all.

[awoke_in_2003]

106. the "etc" should clue you in...

he is just giving the reasons that the supporters will claim.

[Bonobo]

178. +1 for careful reading!

I thought it was pretty obvious...

[Matariki]

39. Serious question for you

Do you have some perverse desire for negative attention?

Your post can't remotely be serious, except to try and get a rise out of people.

[Bonobo]

41. No.

But sarcasm can be a powerful tool to get people to re-examine their own beliefs.

[SkyDaddy7]

59. Re-examine their ability to laugh at...

your dark comedy is about all you will get advocating the tazzering of an 86yr old woman in a bed!

[Dr Morbius]

124. True, but sarcasm (especially on the net) is a two-edged sword.

And anyone who pulls out a sword has every reason to expect others to be concerned. It's a weapon.

[proud2BlibKansan]

43. LOL

[tblue37]

189. It was a parody. It was not serious. Read more carefully! nt

[D23MIURG23]

73. Self delete.

[Bonobo]

74. Thanks.

And by the way, I was being sarcastic.

It's sad that on DU, anyone could think that anyone would defend this atrocity.

[D23MIURG23]

75. Yeah sorry. I feel like an ass.

[Bonobo]

78. No, I'm sorry. Please don't feel bad. nt

[EOTE]

98. Just know that many have.

You may think the sarcasm is obvious, but it reads verbatim to many of the posts you'll read on here and elsewhere. I think unless it's absolutely clear, the sarcasm tag can be very helpful.

Do you remember a year or so ago, the whole "Christian side hug" thing? A different way of hugging for Christians that didn't require the possibility that any groins would sinfully touch? Some Christian retreat organized this elaborate Christian side hug rap that was simultaneously terrible and hilarious. It garnered so much incredulity on Youtube that eventually the organizers of this rap came forward and said that the whole thing was a joke. It obviously wasn't and they were just trying to cover their ass for doing something so ridiculously stupid, but considering that we see this kind of thing from fundamentalist groups all the time and it was coming from a fundamentalist group, it really couldn't be considered satire no matter how much they tried to play it off.

So while it may seem like your words were completely ludicrous and it should have been obvious that it was satire, the fact that it was almost word for word like other posts found on this very site make it a bit difficult to interpret.

[we can do it]

83. Bullshit Plain and Simple. When Someone Calls 911 for Medical Check-up

it is NOT protocal to send cops to attack the person. Retired fire-fighter/paramedic here. What do you base that assinine statement on?

[Bonobo]

85. I base them on the fact that that is the usual bullshit I here

from the serial cop defenders on DU.

So I thought "Well, if you can't beat them, join them!"

:think:

[Hosnon]

88. Something about this doesn't smell right.

Either the plaintiffs are full of shit or the cops are full of shit (or a little of both I suppose).

But if the plaintiffs are telling the truth, I don't see how a reasonable reaction from the cops was to taser her.

[smokey nj]

89. paulsby, is that you?

Well done, sir.

[Truth2Tell]

138. someone had to step in now that one is gone...

:)

[backscatter712]

93. Trollin' for a good cause!

Well played! :evilgrin: :thumbsup:

[niyad]

102. was beginning to think you had forgotten the sarcasm icon.

[phleshdef]

122. Its a shame that people can't detect obvious sarcasm without being told.

Sheesh.

[Bonobo]

179. It's not just a shame, it is a real signal of how f'ed up we all are.

It's a wakeup call!

[Prometheus Bound]

136. LOL. You got all the usual ones.

It would have been better if they had punched her in the head though, because tazers can kill, but punches don't. At least that's what I was told on one thread.

You might advise people who object to the police action to go on a ride-along to see how dangerous sick grannies can really be.

I have heard that bed-ridden elderly people are one of the main causes of cop deaths. I don't have the exact figures handy though. But anyway you can't blame cops for being nervous and not taking any chances.

They probably should have body-slammed her on the hard floor after tazering her to be sure she wouldn't be a danger to the ten cops, but no one important was hurt, so I would have to say job well done. Textbook police action.

[moriah]

146. I think some people missed the invisible "sarcasm" tag....

... At least, I'm praying they did. :)

[rustydog]

160. No it ain't pal...This was a first aid call made by a family member

Not a domestic abuse call, not a fight, suspicious person or burglary in progress call.

When using an Electronic control Device (commonly called by the brand name Taser) It can be used when pain compliance may not be appropriate or if the subject poses a threat to themselves or others. She told police to get out of her house. She was ot under arrest, she was not a threat to occupants of the home.
80 plus frail persons in bed on oxygen is not a threat unless she pulled a knife from under the covers or brandished the oxygen bottle. This did not happen because the news agency would have mentined it in the report and the Officer's present would have mentined in reports the presence of deadly or threatening weapons.
If this pussy of a cop felt hs personal safety was threatened with HOW MANY BACK-UP OFFICERS PRESENT??? on a medicl aid call? He needs to work as a greeter at Wal-mart.

[PSzymeczek]

196. The grandson called for the EMTs.

Why in Hades did 911 send police?

[TriMera]

9. Besides the obvious

brutality of the whole thing, they're lucky they didn't blow the place up. I don't think an oxygen rich environment and sparks mix very well. But, then again, they were stepping on the hose. :nuke:

[SunnySong]

10. I am starting to think Reno 911 is being used as a training tool. nt

[TransitJohn]

11. Where are the cop apologists?

I'm sure we don't have all the facts. :sarcasm:

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bonobo]

31. Self-delete.

[TransitJohn]

36. Wow! I'm sorry I missed it.

Must have been a good one.

[Bonobo]

38. He suggested you and I were lovers.

He said we should go and have a love-fest, you and me but to not take pictures.

Then he want on to call us and other DU'ers who are against police brutality "teabaggers".

[safeinOhio]

12. That is sick

If they can't handle an 86 year old disabled granny, they have no business having a taser, badge or police job.

[Iggo]

13. Yay, Cops!

They're the best!

[BrklynLiberal]

14. Weird combination of stupid and cruel...those policemen.

[madinmaryland]

15. Well, at least I now know where you get this shit from. nt

[Rage for Order]

16. Sadly, this article is not from the Onion n/t

[demosincebirth]

24. At first sight, I thought it was.

[TexasObserver]

19. Some police are simply out of control. This is appalling.

[Hannah Bell]

26. is this a joke? unbelievable.

[taught_me_patience]

30. they should have punched her in the face

...I'm sure she deserved it (according to many on DU)

:sarcasm:

[KansDem]

127. Maybe a choke hold.

Since she's already on oxygen, the cop wouldn't have to choke too much. Say, maybe only half-way...

[flor-de-jasmim]

32. If someone stepped on my oxygen hose, I'd probably get "aggressive", too!

[Maru Kitteh]

33. You are the the f'n expert in flame threads, aren't you.

It was rhetorical.


Congrats.

[Matariki]

37. Fucking hell. Isn't this the script from the remake of Bad Lieutenant?

Tell me this is fiction.

[Zorra]

40. Cops 1, Grannies 0. nt

[Jumping John]

45. Granny had a knife people - well that's the cops version

POLICE TASER EL RENO WOMAN
REX HOGAN
Edition:Sunday, January 03, 2010

El Reno police said they were forced to taser an 86-year-old El Reno woman last week who was threatening to kill herself and threatened officers with a knife.

The incident occurred Dec. 22 at the Elizabeth Place Apartments, 1955 S. Shephard, said Police Chief Ken Brown.

Brown said the woman's grandson telephoned police asking for help for his grandmother, who he said was threatening to overdose on medication. The chief said when officers arrived, they found the woman lying on a bed. He said when the woman saw the officers she ordered them out of her home and told them that she “wanted to die.”

Brown said the woman pulled a kitchen knife and told officers “she was in control of her life.” Brown said officers then tasered the woman and took the knife.

Brown said the woman was taken to Parkview Hospital where the tasers were removed and she was admitted to a mental health center.

http://www.elrenotribune.com/CatIndex.aspx?pageType=1&id=4000

[Rex]

49. She pulled a kitchen knife while laying in bed on oxygen!?

Sure I believe it...cops never make mistakes! :eyes:

"Granny down, granny down...she had a Denny's steak knife and was looking menacingly at Roger!"

Why didn't they just step on her oxygen, why tazer her? Oh yeah...cops are stupid people that only know how to use force to resolve any situation.

[Chulanowa]

52. Maybe she was spinning her bottle around her head like a bolo

'Cause granny just don't give a fuck!

[Rex]

203. You know, I didn't think about that!

Granny 'keeps it real'!

[treestar]

60. there goes a perfectly good reason for more outrage!!

All gone, kaput. What a drag. :rofl:

[Bonobo]

76. So you believe that absolves the cops, do you? nt

[treestar]

91. Why should I automatically disbelieve them?

It is true I cannot make any conclusions from a news story. The jury will hear the evidence and have the opportunity to make a better conclusion than anyone can on this board today.

[Bonobo]

94. For all the reasons that are obvious.

But you would know that if you weren'r wed to one position.

[treestar]

97. No I am not; I really don't know what happened there from a media article

and neither do you - you're the one wed to one position! You're the one pre-determined to believe a particular side.

If she killed herself in front of them you'd be blaming them for letting her do that. This story is not all that clear.

[Bonobo]

100. That's not entirely true.

It is my position, and yes, I am wed to THIS one, that one should NEVER use a taser on an 86 year old disabled woman connected to an oxygen tank.

If she killed herself, she killed herself, but you must START with the rock-solid position that you will not fucking electrocute an old, disabled woman.

If you can't agree to that, I don't want you making any decisions about police procedure, that's for sure.

[Raineyb]

117. Not to mention that sparks, flames, and oxygen tanks don't mix. They could have caused an explosion

and while I'll admit I wouldn't have shed a tear for the assholes, the old woman and her grandson could have been killed and I damn sure care about their well being in this.

[Raineyb]

112. It is obvious that those police officers endangered the life of that woman.

Anything else is pathetic excuse-making of the highest order.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

108. A good police office --

should have been able to difuse the situation without resorting to tasering her.

I watched SFPD subdue a very large, very high man who was on a bad trip and running around naked in my intersection last week. No taser needed. It took a good 15 minutes of subtle work, but it finally happened.

Any cop worth their badge should have been able to work Granny better than tasing her.

[jp11]

116. Oh come on that takes time and effort, it is just so much easier to

'harmlessly' zap people. Police are there to be the equivalent of zombie robots enforcing our laws not actual people with the power to feel or reason.



:sarcasm:

[Hell Hath No Fury]

132. Clearly Granny was wasting their valuable time!

SFPD was just looking at carrying tasers -- the idea was (thankfully) rejected. I feel tasers are used with far too little justification and far too frequently. Being a cop is about much more than pulling a weapon.

[Raineyb]

66. I'm sure she did...

After the cops planted it on her.

[lumberjack_jeff]

104. So she was suicidal and had a knife?

That would help to explain the glaring holes in the OP.

Whether tasering was the best way to get the knife is a debatable question.

[Mojorabbit]

114. I took care of worse than

that as a nurse in the hospital using just my ability to soothe people a lot of which I learned in the psych rotation in nursing school. I used my voice and sympathy.

[lumberjack_jeff]

125. Human relationship skills are under-appreciated by law enforcement. n/t

[moriah]

151. Was gonna post this if somone else hadn't.

Looking at the two sides of the story, obviously it was a very bad judgment call by the police IMhO. But seeing both sides gives one a better way to figure out what likely happened. Truth is always a mixture...

First... look at the medication argument. Grandson says she didn't remember when she took her medication last. There are two ways that could hurt her -- either by her not taking enough of her medicine, or taking too much of it. It was quite possible that when he woke her up when he came over to visit that she thought it was time to take her meds and started to take them, but the grandson wouldn't have wanted her to until they figured out what her actual blood levels were. So when that got relayed from 911 to the dispatch teams, they interpreted the idea that she wanted to take her "medication" as a possible OD situation.

Second, my grandmother had to go into a nursing home recently. She had valued her independence and did not want to go at first, but my mother couldn't afford a live-in caregiver for her while Mom worked, and Mom was an only child. If I'd lived in their town at the time, I would have been happy to have stayed there during the day since I work nights, but I would have been sleeping. Sure, I could have been woken up if she fell by her yelling, but it wouldn't have prevented a fall, and the reason Mom finally decided she couldn't keep her safe was when she broke her hip the second time. Granny was very depressed. She said she just "wished God would finally take (her)". Suicidal ideation, for sure. She told the police officers she "wanted to die" -- that very easily could have been "I would rather be dead than go into a home." "I'm in control of my life, I don't need people telling me what to do.... see, I sleep with a knife under my pillow, I can protect myself, I don't need to go into a home...."

This was a case where a social worker and an EMT were what was needed, not a stun gun.

[miyazaki]

46. Maybe those cops freaked when she tried to activate her 'Clapper'?

Clap on, Clap off.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

48. I'm TASERED and I can't get up!

[Rex]

47. A police state? Surely you jest!

She took a more aggressive posture in bed! I guess granny was reaching for that .357 under her pillow! :sarcasm:

[ohheckyeah]

50. Was this the cast from

Reno 911? :eyes: What the hell is wrong with these people?

[coyote]

53. This is fucked up on so many leverls...

I don't know where to even begin. All 10 of them should be fired immediately and have pscyhiatric evaluations.

[ima_sinnic]

54. details of the lawsuit at the very end of the article:

"As a result of the wrongful arrest and detention, the plaintiff Lona M. Varner suffered the unlawful restraint of her freedom, bodily injury, assault, battery, the trashing of her apartment, humiliation, loss of personal dignity, infliction of emotional distress and medical bills."
They seek punitive damages for constitutional violations, from the City of El Reno, Duran, Officers Frank Tinga and Joseph Sandberg, and 10 Officers Does.
They are represented by Brian Dell of Oklahoma City.

I hope all those officers face jail time.
A woman can dream, can't she?

[Mendocino]

55. Her head started to spin

and she vomited pea soup.

THE TASER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU!!!

[cutlassmama]

56. +1 LOL

[eShirl]

57. Thank goodness the 10 cops had thought to bring a tazer to defend themselves.

[Jamastiene]

61. I can't believe this is not from The Onion.

Heads should ROLL over this shit...and to be specific, I mean those assholes who tazered the granny.

What kind of total wimp would be intimidated by "a more aggressive posture in her bed?" And why did they feel the need to send in 10 cops for a medical problem?

FFS, this thuggish police state bullshit needs to stop. Ask for help and get tazered. OMFG.

[christx30]

199. This kind of crap

makes me want to just handle all of my stuff myself and not ever call the cops. They are more of a danger to me than the criminals are.

[saras]

207. it depends on what you're doing

Personally I gave up on police when I called 911 to report that some guys had dragged a barely-conscious guy out of a truck in the middle of the snow and were systematically beating the shit out of him, taking turns. They asked me to go out and see if they had weapons. I kid you not. BTW everyone involved, and the whole city, was all-white.

[Solomon]

63. In the words of somebody famous

"they acted stupidly."

[lunatica]

71. Don't think that because your old and ill and and weak and bedridden

that you can get away with taking an aggressive posture in your bed.

I expect to hear more about this case in the future. Those cops need to be disciplined if not downright fired.

[Mendocino]

72. Tazing an obviously fragile person

could have killed her. Plus electricity sparking and oxygen could have killed everyone in the room.

[FourScore]

118. Those were my first thoughts.

[pipi_k]

79. Like a couple of others, I honestly thought this must be a joke or something

It's that outrageous.


Yes, older people can be violent, and often very strong, even if they're frail.

When my 93 year old MIL had to spend a month in a nursing home, she beat up her (much younger) roommate, and got quite violent. She was small. In poor health. Weak. Frail. But she somehow found the strength to be violent.

However, the entire family would have been up in arms if the police (who were called to the nursing home a couple of times) had tasered Mom.

Absolutely NO excuse for it at all.

[Kingofalldems]

80. I bet they all had cop hair

[guitar man]

81. Good grief

A perfect example of why I avoid that damned town. And so goes another episode of "El Reno 911 ". :(

[Brewman_Jax]

82. She bit her thumb at them

Did you bite your thumb at me...?

[JVS]

90. These cops should be fired.

From a cannon!

[kirby]

92. Quick edit, though the original sounded better n/t

[niyad]

103. excellent thought

[noiretextatique]

109. more appalling police behavior

but, but, but...she had a kitchen knife, took and aggressive stand in bed, and 10 grown men feared for their safety :eyes: what utter bullshit. you'd think the cops could come with a better story. one that doesn't make them sound like complete idiots and cowards.

[asdjrocky]

110. Fuck the police.

Every single day there is another story of the abuse of power. Until people realize they are here from one real reason and that reason is to protect the property of the wealthy, then none of this will change.

[Blue Owl]

111. JFC

Just when you think police brutality has reached an all-time low, then comes this.

[SILVER__FOX52]

126. These Neanderthal cops ...

are not doing this crazy shit on their own, authority. They're being ordered, to act this way and rewarded for this Fascist, behavior. Where not in Kansas anymore, folks. We got some serious problems going on in this Country. The Country is breaking down and it's going to get worse. The scariest part, is that you never hear any politicians, say a word about this crap.

[crim son]

113. delete

I'm only repeating what's been said ten times in the thread.

[beyurslf]

115. Well i hope she learned her lesson. May all the other old bed ridden folks

out there learn it too.

[TK421]

162. I ought to warn my Mom to behave herself while in that nursing home

she just may say something bad about their food!!! oops!! she already does that every day!

[FourScore]

119. 10 police officers couldn't handle a granny on oxygen in her bed? Taser? REALLY? What bozos!

Fire them! They're a disgrace to the heros who are out there REALLY putting their lives on the line.

[joeybee12]

120. Move along, nothing to see here...

am I the first to say, "Well, this is oklahoma, SOP."

[SILVER__FOX52]

121. Jesus Christ...........

Where do these diseased minded police come from? These people are mentally ill, man.

[valerief]

130. Why aren't these people immediately fired? nt

[The Doctor.]

133. EL RENO, OK POLICE PHONE NUMBER (NON EMERGENCY);

[phone]

[Liberal_in_LA]

134. K&R

[OwnedByFerrets]

137. When is everyone going to understand that we live in a Police State

Its not usually as blantant as this situation, but its here.

[NutmegYankee]

140. WTF?

[LiberalFighter]

141. Are Oklahoma City cops that stupid? Or not caring?

[a la izquierda]

155. The cops weren't from OKC, if you read the whole article

they were from El Reno, a small-ish city west of OKC. OKC cops aren't that terrible, typically.

[MrMickeysMom]

142. This could be an episode of Reno 911, you realize...

..."I need back-up... grandmother has informed me to leave..."

This is some sick stuff.

[burnsei sensei]

144. The officers should be fired immediately.

They failed to do their jobs. The child called for medical assistance, this was not the scene of a damn crime.
At least it was not the scene of a crime until they came there.

[proReality]

145. Did anyone notice the date?

That report is from Friday, November 14, 2008. Cops wanting to play with their toys seem to have come out of the woodwork during the CheneyBush administration.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

152. K&R unreal

[marybourg]

159. Where I live a call like this would have been answered by

an ambulance and emergency med techs. I question the source and veracity of this story.

[TK421]

163. An 86 year old patient on oxygen with a knife warrants ten police to cover her and a tazer

yeah...this is just beyond ridiculous here

unless the knife was this




being wielded by someone like this






then yeah...use a tazer, but this is SO obviously not the fucking case here

[Prometheus Bound]

166. Which is worse: Tazing her or "Stepping on her oxygen hose until she couldn't breathe?"

Kid should have yelled "Don't KILL my Grandma!"

[AzNick]

169. Isn't the taser supposed to be used as a last resource, in lieu of lethal force?

Just wondering...

[Nikki Stone1]

190. The woman was trying to commit suicide and apparently had a knife

Still no reason to taze, but it makes a little more sense now:
http://newsok.com/oklahoma-granny-gets-shocked-by-taser-sues-el-reno-police/article/3471297?custom_click=headlines_widget

[Prometheus Bound]

201. But the team leader wrote "he was fearful for his safety and the safety of others"

They tazed her because they were afraid OF her, not FOR her.

Gutless wonders.

[Crunchy Frog]

192. That'll show those grannies!

Think they can get away with anything, just because they're bedbound and on oxygen. They need to learn that they're not above the law either.

Next maybe they can raid a NICU and taze some of the preemie babies. Those guys think they can get away with anything too.

Thank God for law and order!

[Name removed]

194. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tblue37]

195. I am severely hearing impaired. I have a website where I post articles about

coping with deafness in a society where our deafness is an annoyance to people who don't want to be bothered to repeat something, or speak clearly instead of mumbling, or take the time to face us to make sure we can read their lips.

The title of one of my articles about the attitude that "hearies" have toward those of us who are severely hearing impaired is "Deaf People Are So Annoying!":
http://deafnotdumb.homestead.com/deafannoy.html

This is the message that one girl left in my guest book:

YOU MIGHT THINK DEAF PEOPLE ARE ANNOYING BUT I HAVE A DEAF BROTHER AND I HAVE LIVED WITH HIM ALL MY LIFE I AM 14 AND NOT ONCE I HAVE FOUND HES ANNOYING SO GO MAKE FUN OF OTHER PEOPLE OR AT LEAST GROW UP AND FIND SUMTHIN BETTER TO DO THAT PICK ON PEOPLE SO FUCK U

This was my response:

Little girl, READ THE DARNED ESSAY.! My point is that I AM A DEAF PERSON, MY TWO SISTERS ARE DEAF, MY MOTHER WAS DEAF, MY GRANDMOTHER WAS DEAF. Now do you understand? The essay is SARCASTIC! I am writing about THE ATTITUDE OF HEARING PEOPLE TOWARD US DEAFIES. THEY are the ones who think we deaf people are annoying. I am a deaf person. I don't think we are annoying. Good lord! Don't they teach you children to READ in school these days? Let me explain SARCASM. When someone does something really, really stupid, and another person says, "Nice work, genius!" That doesn't mean that he really thinks it is nice work and that the person who did the stupid thing is genius. SARCASM MEANS THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF WHAT IT SAYS. By the way, nice work, genius!!

I was astonished and appalled that so many people so seriously misinterpreted Bonobo's obviously sarcastic parody of the standard excuses the cop-defenders trot out to defend these atrocities. I was immediately reminded of the response that reader left on my article. I know she never even read past the title, because the very first sentence in the article is "I have a significant hearing loss." If she had read even the first sentence, she would have realized that I was parodying the attitude of hearing people toward those of us who are hearing impaired. But people have such a hair trigger for outrage these days that they immediately get offended and jump down someone's throat without bothering to take a moment to actually pay attention to what the person has said.

[Shining Jack]

208. tblue37...

When Bonobo registered back in 2003 the vast majority of the people on this thread weren't even members here,myself included (well,duh).And 13184 posts in 7 years doesn't make him a celebrity on a board that host millions of posts, although I recalled the nick for it's originality and the meaning (bonobos don't resolve conflicts with violence but by,let's just say, other more peaceful and enjoyable acts.:) )but I had the same reaction as many,I was sure that he was being serious.I don't remember ever reading any of his posts about police brutality so how,even with a good sarcasm detector,should we see what he really meant? And that thread is a mess,tons of sub-threads inside many other ones so before finally reading a reply that clearly said who he was and that he really was being sarcastic I had plenty of time to get angry.

In post 173 he explains that he hates the sarcasm smiley."It kinda defeats the purpose of good sarcasm, which needs to be skating close to the edge to have a real bite." I agree,I don't like using it either but sometimes I don't have a choice,because people don't know me or my positions on different issues and it's even worse when a thread is already confusing and the OP is controversial then if I want to be sarcastic I'll add that smiley and also,when the conditions are right,a little comment saying why I had to use it.Something like the classic "added for the sarcasm impaired".

I tried to say all this directly to him but the thread is so intricate that I couldn't find a good spot to reply.

Before clicking on "Post message" I read your article.Deaf People are really annoying ! :P

[Swamp Rat]

200. k&r

[citizen snips]

205. Why did he call 911 just so she could get a check up?

I don't think 911 is the right number to call for medical evaluations.

[Skip Intro]

206. There are of course two sides to this story, and we're only getting one.

I don't understand going full tilt without knowing the whole story. Maybe it is a case of a gang of evil cops beating up on a little old bedridden lady, or maybe they're not and there's more to the story. Nobody knows at this point.