Methane in Gulf "astonishingly high": U.S. scientist

[girl gone mad]

Reuters) - As much as 1 million times the normal level of methane gas has been found in some regions near the Gulf of Mexico oil spill, enough to potentially deplete oxygen and create a dead zone, U.S. scientists said on Tuesday.

Texas A&M University oceanography professor John Kessler, just back from a 10-day research expedition near the BP Plc oil spill in the gulf, says methane gas levels in some areas are "astonishingly high."

(snip)

In some areas, the crew of 12 scientists found concentrations that were 100,000 times higher than normal.

"We saw them approach a million times above background concentrations" in some areas, Kessler said.

The scientists were looking for signs that the methane gas had depleted levels of oxygen dissolved in the water needed to sustain marine life.

"At some locations, we saw depletions of up to 30 percent of oxygen based on its natural concentration in the waters. At other places, we saw no depletion of oxygen in the waters. We need to determine why that is," he told the briefing.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65L6IA20100622

[dipsydoodle]

1. I would have thought that the normal level

was nil given that methane doesn't disolve in water and is lighter than air so would reaches the surface quickly. If that is the case then a a million times higher than nil is still nil. :shrug:

[girl gone mad]

3. Most of the methane that seeps out of the ocean floor does dissolve..

or is eaten by microbes. Only large blowout plumes reach the surface.

[dipsydoodle]

4. If you search the properties

of methane you'll find the exact reason why it doesn't dissolve in water.

[girl gone mad]

7. A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Anyone who would like more than a little bit of knowledge can learn the Bunsen coefficients for methane solubility in various water temperatures and salinities:

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/je60068a029

It's fascinating that so many people on the internet are willing to repeat what amount to industry talking points, sans citation or fact. BP has also falsely proclaimed that methane doesn't dissolve in water.

[dipsydoodle]

8. BP's proclamations had sfa to do with it

I simply searched properties :

Why doesn't methane, CH4, dissolve in water?

The methane itself isn't the problem. Methane is a gas, and so its molecules are already separate - the water doesn't need to pull them apart from one another.

The problem is the hydrogen bonds between the water molecules. If methane were to dissolve, it would have to force its way between water molecules and so break hydrogen bonds. That costs a reasonable amount of energy.

The only attractions possible between methane and water molecules are the much weaker van der Waals forces - and not much energy is released when these are set up. It simply isn't energetically profitable for the methane and water to mix.

http://www.chemguide.co.uk/atoms/structures/molecular.html

Are you saying that BP have managed to rewrite a pretty much standard chemistry link ?

[girl gone mad]

10. Oh, bother.

Fine, don't accept the word of the scientist who actually ran the experiments to determine the solubility coefficients of methane in sea water.

Here's what geoscientist David Valentine of the University of California, Santa Barbara, writing last month in the journal http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v465/n7297/full/465421a.html">Nature (a prestigious, peer reviewed publication) had to say on this very topic:

"Visual observations of leakage from the ruptured pipe are unreliable because of the turbulent flow and the uncertain water content of the oil-water-gas mixture," Valentine wrote. "Spot measurements of the flux at any given moment can't be scaled up reliably, because the flow may not be constant."

And while satellite photos and boat measurements are helpful to assess the extent of the surface slick, he said, "these measures are also highly variable with time, place, weather conditions and dispersant application."

Spewing from the ocean floor a mile deep is a mixture that, according to BP, is roughly half methane and other gases by mass and half petroleum compounds, Valentine told Discovery News, and while the oil itself migrates unevenly around the Gulf in ways that are difficult to track, the behavior of methane is more congenial to measurement.

"Although methane from surface-vessel spills or shallow-water blowouts escapes into the air, I expect that the vast majority of methane making the long trip to the sea surface from a deep water spill would dissolve," Valentine wrote. "Unlike oil, methane dissolves uniformly in seawater. And the tools are available to measure it accurately and sensitively."

Take your complaint up with whoever taught you chemistry. In the meantime, please don't try to pass yourself off as someone knowledgeable on the subject.

[dipsydoodle]

11. Wasn't trying

to pass myself of as anything unlike some of the barrack room lawyers, cigarette pack accountants etc etc here on DU. I had simply searched some weeks ago to see if the methane did disolve in water. I guess the link I found which referred to non sea water.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

19. You shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet.

Particularly from amateurish sites like that.

Yes, methane is soluble in water to some degree. Yes, ammonia is more soluble in water for the reasons describe. No, sea water or pure water don't have anything to do with it. Yes, if you'd searched just a little more you'd have found your error.

[girl gone mad]

21. delete

sorry, my error.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

18. Methane, like any gas, will dissolve in water.

The solubility of methane, however, is rather low.

I'd imagine the normal background of methane in sea water is particularly low, and the ability to detect has more to do with extraordinary detection limits of modern instrumental analysis. So the claim 1,000,000 times higher doesn't really offer much perspective on the problem.

[Swamp Rat]

2. BLAME THE ENVIRONMENTALISTS!!

:grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr:

[Hubert Flottz]

5. EeeeeeeeYIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

It's the son of Herman Munster.

[Swamp Rat]

6. Way'at Hubert Flottz!!

:hi: Just sitting here waiting for the the Corexit to suffocate me before the methane gas bubble sends a super tsunami to wipe us out. la-dee-dah! :party:

[Hubert Flottz]

9. Everywhere in America is a shit creek these days...

and I had to quit drinking' absolut!

I don't think the Mother of all Lemon Drops could cheer up America.

I lived on the Gulf a while. This is really sad to watch. No more wading and fishing the flats...DAMN! Maybe when the tar balls hit the topless beach, the magnitude of this calamity will register in the tiny greed soaked brains of guys like Joe Barton (r) Texas.

[Swamp Rat]

12. Some folks, especially the U.S. government, do not give a fuck about us in Louisiana

I learned this the hard way during Katrina. This attitude is about to bite everyone else on the ass real hard.

If politicians and their corporate masters really cared, the illegal occupations in Iraq and Afghanistan would have already ended, and OUR resources would be put to good use.

What helped me keep my sanity was the outreach of the good people here at DU. Unfortunately, this disaster is on a much greater magnitude and will affect us all. :(

[tnlefty]

13. Gack! When I saw the top of this pic, I thought what a beautiful

place, until I scrolled further down and saw the deadly, ugly at the bottom.

I'm in a state of extreme anger, frustration and sadness. I can't imagine what it's like for Gulf residents. :hug:

[Hubert Flottz]

22. The forces of blind greed are eating away at our country and everything

good in it. As long as the "have mores" have control the speed of our downhill slide will intensify. Baby dolphins and whales death songs mean little to the monstrous bastards who only hear the bells of the cash register. Does the Gulf and every creature in and around it, not have a "Right To Life"?

I wish you good luck in the months ahead.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

14. "Astonishingly high" Really?

How could it be? What could possibly be the cause?

[Lochloosa]

15. Stike a match?.

:shrug:

[cwydro]

20. You're a funny one.

Not too much on the environment are ya there bub?

[Subdivisions]

16. Same old song and dance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKYJNTJs7Jg

EPA Administrator Christine Todd Whitman announced to New Yorkers, shortly after the 911 attacks on the World Trade Towers, that "their air safe to breathe". Now, thousands of people are ill.

The ongoing chemical attack on New Yorkers has not been given as much attention as other aspects of the 911 attack. Thousands more people will die because of the irresponsible behavior of our own government.

The response to 911 may be the model for future responses to national disasters and terrorist attacks. Our heroes, volunteers, first responders, and thousands of just plain folks were caught in circumstances beyond their control, while were those who had the power to control the outcome of those circumstances, chose to disregard public safety. This is a crime. The American public needs to know, for their own safety and well being.

The film "911: Dust and Deceit at the WTC" is not a pretty picture - it paints a sad and grim portrait of another callous crime against humanity.

[amborin]

17. K&R