Immigrants: take our jobs!

[maryf]

I saw something about this a day or so ago here, worth a recap but if this is too much of a dupe, let me know!(and thanks to the specter of george o.):

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100624/ap_on_en_tv/us_immigration_take_our_jobs

Immigrant farm workers' challenge: Take our jobs
By JULIANA BARBASSA, Associated Press Writer Juliana Barbassa, Associated Press Writer Thu Jun 24, 5:42 pm ET

SAN FRANCISCO – In a tongue-in-cheek call for immigration reform, farm workers are teaming up with comedian Stephen Colbert to challenge unemployed Americans: Come on, take our jobs.

Farm workers are tired of being blamed by politicians and anti-immigrant activists for taking work that should go to Americans and dragging down the economy, said Arturo Rodriguez, the president of the United Farm Workers of America.

So the group is encouraging the unemployed — and any Washington pundits or anti-immigrant activists who want to join them — to apply for the some of thousands of agricultural jobs being posted with state agencies as harvest season begins.

All applicants need to do is fill out an online form under the banner "I want to be a farm worker" at http://www.takeourjobs.org and experienced field hands will train them and connect them to farms.

more at link...

[sinkingfeeling]

1. Love it. Great campaign. Second URL: remove the comma at the end.

[maryf]

Thanks so much!!

comma removed :)

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

2. Remeber that McCain said US Americans wouldn't pick lettuce for $50 dollars an hour. nt

[xchrom]

3. love it! nt

[pinboy3niner]

4. What a great way to make a point

Colbert's show on this may well show up in the late night clips aired by cable news shows.

[mrcheerful]

5. Not knocking those willing to do the farm work the migrant farm workers do

But as a person in his teens that did do the farm jobs all I can say is I'd rather clean bathrooms at a truck stop then have to do farm work again. Not only is it back breaking work, you also are out in the sun from sun up until sun down, then theres the chemicals for insect and weed control that you get on your skin as well as breathing the crap, all for wages less then what a gas station attendant earns. There is no health benefits, then if it rains your not going to be out in the fields, so your pay is affected by weather. Yeah, I can see people lining up for this of job.

[glinda]

7. Smaller, healthier,organic farms would create desirable jobs.

America's greatest possible asset is food production. If done on multiple small scales, I think working at them would be far better. And yes, I live in farm country and actually have worked on a farm.

[phasma ex machina]

23. Raising kids is the only thing more fulfilling than bringing in the harvest

then dropping it off with the undocumented



:rofl:

[William Z. Foster]

61. row crops

Row crops are but one aspect of agriculture.

We are talking immigrant workers here, and that means specialty crops - fruits, vegetables, and nuts.

[phasma ex machina]

69. Undocumented workers means the people who operate ADM and Cargill elevators.

Undocumented workers means the people who staff the Holiday Inn.

[William Z. Foster]

73. sure

Not sure what point you are trying to make.

[maryf]

11. Check out this movie

La Misma Luna (Under the same moon), great movie, and touches on some of what you are saying...Thanks for your post!

[Freddie Stubbs]

16. As long as our Government does a poor job enforcing immigration/labor laws

These jobs will be filled by illegal immigrants.

[maryf]

19. And if they are enforced the farmers will be screwed...

they can't get enough "legals" to do the work that needs to be done at the pay they can afford to pay...

[Freddie Stubbs]

21. They would have to raise prices to pay for the higher wages

[maryf]

27. Yes, and the farmers would go under...the whole agriculture meme is a

disaster in itself,...but without the immigrant workers they'd be gone now...

[Hello_Kitty]

37. I guess it means they can't take claims of rape seriously either

http://www.hcn.org/issues/368/17649

It's such a struggle running a farm these days that owners can't be bothered with such trifles as stopping the supervisors from raping female workers.

:puke:

[William Z. Foster]

50. look...

If a teacher raped students, would be attack all teachers?

[Hello_Kitty]

56. Not a good analogy.

Farm owners are not analogous to teachers. This is more like a school owner or administrator turning a blind eye to teachers raping students in their school and then threatening students who complain with expulsion.

[William Z. Foster]

58. yes, I see

Farmers are less like school administrators and more like teachers, but I see what you are saying. My point is that we do not demonize an entire profession based on the actions of a few.

[maryf]

66. on a tangent, one would hope anyway...

lately teachers are all demons, farmers too, and we know how bad the migrant workers are...just an aside here... :hi:

[bobbolink]

68. Watch that talk... some of my best friends are teachers.

:hi:

[county worker]

52. They will never pay higher wages. They would completely mechanize first.

I know a thing or two about the corporate farms in CA's central valley.

If people think the farms are going to raise wages and higher people other than those they have now they are sadly mistaken. The only reason there are farm workers is because it is cheaper than mechanization and there is less waste.

Cotton is completely mechanized and so are many other crops.

[jmowreader]

83. Many crops can't be mechanized, though

You can't mechanically pick strawberries, for instance. Tree fruit has to be hand-picked.

Row crops can be mechanically harvested, but not everything is row crop.

[Hello_Kitty]

36. Just because they're accustomed to something doesn't mean they're entitled to it.

[William Z. Foster]

54. entitled?

Workers show up. What you are not entitled to do is deny employment based on race or ethnicity.

This issue is self-correcting. As the economy collapses here local whites are for the first time in decades applying for the jobs. They will get the same pay and benefits and have the same opportunities that the immigrants have. Most will leverage their educational advantages and language skills and literacy into easier work as soon as they can. Immigrants do that too. A few might choose farming as a career. Many immigrants do that, as well. But the work needs to get done if the population is to be fed. The alternative is imported food from places where conditions for workers, and where safety and health and environmental regulations are much more lax.

If I could afford it I would fly you here and spend a couple of weeks visiting a hundred farms or so - you can pick them or we can visit them randomly - where immigrants are working, and you can investigate and ask questions to your heart's content. Being in the community I can get us in and will not be challenged or stopped, and I have contacts for publicizing any violations we are able to find. But conditions are constantly inspected and regulated so it would be difficult for any farmer here to get away with violations. If we are able to find any abused workers or other violations we will report the employers.

Immigrants, and people of color, face tremendous abuse from all segments of our society.

We have a serious crisis in our national food delivery system. Farmers support rebuilding and restoring the public agricultural infrastructure, including more inspection and regulation. Those cutting corners, abusing workers, threatening public safety and evading regulation - especially the food corporations importing food for those purposes - and the industrial corporate farm operations, especially in California, need to be put out of business. We need strong public policy to that effect. Generalized attacks on immigrants or on farmers are not helpful.

[Hello_Kitty]

74. Yes, but tell it to the Farm Bureaus and major Chambers of Commerce.

Who fight any kind of regulation and sanctions tooth and nail. Unfortunately, those organizations have been thoroughly coopted by multinational corporate interests and they have a nearly exclusive audience with lawmakers.

BTW, if I seemed to be making a generalized attack on immigrants (certainly not!) and farmers, that was not my intention.

[William Z. Foster]

75. Farm Bureau

Farm Bureau has long since been hijacked by right wing zealots and does not represent farmers. We fight with them all of the time. The reason why they have big membership numbers is because many farmers use the insurance plan they manage, which requires membership.

People can inadvertently contribute to the ongoing war on immigrants and the war on small farmers. Corporate interests are funding both "sides" of all of the debates on farming, just as they are funding both political parties and so are controlling both sides of the political debate.

[proud2BlibKansan]

80. And one of the most active members here in Kansas is a long time Democrat

He was once the state president of our Farm Bureau. I've met him several times and have heard him speak. He's a member of our state progressive caucus.

And Kansas is a red state hell.

So if we can maintain a left leaning leadership in Kansas . . .:)

[amandabeech]

42. Not knocking those willing to clean bathrooms at a truck stop,

but I prefer to be out in the orchards, at least. I've cleaned bathrooms and I've picked fruit, but I'll take the fruit any day.

Horrible biological smells, human waste products and heavy-duty chemical cleaning supplies do not make for a pleasant work environment, IMHO. Yuck!

I grew up amid farms, so the bugs, dust and ag chemicals somehow don't bother me as much.

To each his or her own.

[Romulox]

6. "If you're against slavery you should try being a slave for a day."

Um, what? :wtf:

[lonestarnot]

8. They should throw a little oil clean-up into the mix. Rotten tomatoes and oil.

[blondeatlast]

9. Love it. Big k/r! nt

[blondeatlast]

10. They are right up front with the demands of the job too. Great site. nt

[Starry Messenger]

12. It's kind of sad it takes a comedy show to make the point

But hey, if it works. :)

[maryf]

22. I do hope the workers

don't screw themselves out of jobs...we should have an open door policy...

[Starry Messenger]

26. I don't think there will be a rush for the jobs.

It would require too much relocation. Plus, it is tremendously hard work. I just meant it would perhaps shut up a segment of society that keeps yapping about "illegals". Maybe. I can hope?

[maryf]

28. I hope so too! We're in sync...

that thought just hit me... I think its a great way to prove a point...I sent it to a person as a response to an email about the "scary" immigrants in Arizona... :hi:

[William Z. Foster]

57. it is happening

I haven't seen it since the 60's, but this year local whites are applying for farm jobs. We are a "third world" country now. Local farms here have had ten times the applicants they need.

The farmers would much rather hire locals than immigrants, especially in this police state climate regarding immigrants. Of course. It is amazing to drive around this year and see young white people in the fields for the first time in over 30 years. Back in the 60's I was one of those white kids working in the fields and picking fruit. Conditions and pay today for immigrants are vastly better than they were for us back then, by the way. But that was just reality, stretching back thousands of years in history and I don't remember questioning it. There were good and bad farmers to work for, of course. But none of the farmers did - or do - make much money, either, and they were and are always working right along side of us dawn 'til dusk when the season demanded it. People have to eat, and farm work is long and hard and kids have worked in orchards since the beginning of time. Everyone in the family pitches in - it is a way of life.

Small farming is collapsing, the immigrants are going home, food is all being imported, and local whites are now - in this collapsing economy - "willing to do the work." So the immigrant haters should be happy - all of their dreams are coming true.

[Starry Messenger]

71. Wow, that is a huge shift in a short amount of time.

I wonder if this is happening in CA. The immigrant haters might be "happy" but this is a bad sign.

[L0oniX]

13. I used to work the fields, the trees and bushes. I would do it again rather than live on welfare.

Farm work is good work ...always has been.

[mrcheerful]

15. How much are they paying today as when I worked the local farms I was paid anywere

from $60 to $90 a week depending on what you were doing and how productive you were.

[lumberjack_jeff]

14. Excellent. I hope it works really, really well.

There are lots of young adult citizens who need work.

[maryf]

17. As a high school teacher...

I'm sorry to say most young adults in this country wouldn't do this type of work, its too hard for them and doesn't pay well enough...that's kinda the point of the site...

[blondeatlast]

24. Exactly. There's plenty of such work here in AZ in the summer

but teens here don't do it.

It's going to be 111 degrees in Coolidge/Randolph, AZ today. Plenty of work out there but I don't think my neighbors' kids are going to pile in the car to head there and do it.

[SunnySong]

81. Honestly most of them wouldn't be hired. Farmers are not interested in legal workers. nt

[William Z. Foster]

82. simply false

Why make such a statement?

Farmers do not know and cannot know who does and who does not have documentation issues at any particular time. The vast majority of immigrants enter legally, and then get caught up in a hostile and complicated bureaucratic nightmare.

I know thousands of citizens who are working on farms. They are not paid more than anyone else for the same work.

For illiterate and uneducated people, entry level farm work has always been a stepping stone to a better life, if not for them, then for their children and for their family back home. 30-40 years ago it was largely dust bowl refugees, whites, doing this work. 150 years ago, it was how Abraham Lincoln got started in life as he educated himself for a better life.

Why would we deny people access to the first rung on the ladder?

[Booster]

18. Just sent this to my unemployed nephew who is always bashing

the illegals. let's see if he accepts the challenge - I'll bet not.

[maryf]

20. +1

Let me know if he bites! :)

[maryf]

25. this reminds me of a bookmarked DU post from months ago...

great thread to review too...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7372653&mesg_id=7378660


What gets to me is people thinking America was once a great country with a moral compass? When was that? I must have missed that part of history. From the massacres of Indians, to slavery, to Hiroshima, Vietnam, to its policies in Latin America, to its support for the creation of the terrorist state of Israel, to supporting the Shah of Iran, to supporting Saddam with intelligence and chemical weapons against the Iranian people, to these modern day Middle East debacles, America has by far the worst track record. They just have a very powerful propaganda machine to show they are the land of the free.

"We" stole half of Mexico by armed force -- the nice parts with rich deposits of gold and silver (and, as it turned out, oil -- though "we" didn't actually recognize that at the time.)

"We" made sure that "our" influence over Latin America was such that wealth would be steadily transferred from their countries to ours. "We" sent the Marines to Nicaragua, Haiti, & Guatemala often enough to insure that life in those countries would be a permanent living hell for most of the inhabitants. "We" imposed military dictatorships in almost every Central & South American country, stunting the aspirations of their people, & imposing conditions from which some of those countries will never recover. (So if some of the people want to escape from the living conditions in those countries, "we" had very much to do with creating those conditions.)

Interestingly, "we" started doing all this at the same time that "we" were exterminating the indigenous people here, AND using black slaves from Africa. What a loveable, righteous people "we" are, here in the "Land of the Free"!!

"We" came here somewhere in the early 1600s. "We" found this Promised Land, rich beyond imagination with fresh water and fertile earth and abundant game and timber for the felling. And to "our" further delight, it was largely uninhabited--if "we" didn't count the Red Ones.

"We" didn't see too many of them at first; they avoided our noise and the smoke from our fires, which were always too big. But soon enough, "we" were here in such numbers that they couldn't go around us anymore.

"We" were shocked--SHOCKED, I tell ya--that there were Savages in "our" Promised Land! So "we" set about exterminating them. "We" killed them whenever "we" saw them, "we" drove them from their land and their homes, "we" slaughtered their food supply and left the buffalo bodies to rot in the sun by the hundreds of acres. "We" gave them blankets full of smallpox, murdered their children and raped their women before "we" murdered them as well. "We" rounded them up into concentration camps and ate their food while they starved. "We" made them cut their hair, wear britches and beat them to death if they wouldn't speak "our" language.

"We" stole a whole fucking continent from them and paid them in Genocide.

[dajoki]

29. What a great idea...

now let's see who really wants those jobs. Great post Mary!!

K&R

[maryf]

30. Thanks dajoki! Here's a song for the workers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2eO65BqxBE

[bobbolink]

72. I just got that song by Joan Baez!

Here is a great, short clip on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj4ya_Gyq80&feature=related

The quote at the end is one we should live by... what a man. :patriot:

[MellowDem]

31. Horrible idea...

All this does is shift to the old, tired, bigoted assumption that these immigrants do jobs "Americans won't do". Well, they won't do them because they're shitty ass jobs that don't pay crap. And the only reason companies get anyone to do the jobs without having to raise the wages they pay or the safety of the job or quality of the work environment is because they get illegal labor to do it.

The focus should be on why the farm owners pay their workers like shit and are willing to hire illegal labor, not blaming Americans for being "lazy". This is one point that Colbert gets consistently, horribly wrong. It shows a bigoted mind, not to mention a rather provincial view of Americans.

The farm workers themselves should not be demonized, I understand, but to respond by demonzing unemployed Americans basically at the benefit of asshole farm owners is rather perplexing. Of course, it's not that they're "farm workers", it's that they're illegal labor. It's like scabs coming in to break a union strike, then "daring" the now unemployed union members to do their old jobs with lower wages, less safety, etc. It's fucking insane and it's a damn shame Colbert is behind this.

[maryf]

32. Many farmers are really having a hard time of it...

they shouldn't be demonized either...blame Capitalism, blame NAFTA, a friend wrote this in a reply to me regarding the root cause of all this:

Consider.

Immigration is essentially driven by America's OWN grievously immoral, underhanded, fraudulent and criminal actions under a policy of neo-liberal exploitation that has occasioned massive theft, political intrigue and election-tampering, coups, propping-up of corrupt dictators and brutal autocrats, blackmail, assassinations and death-squads, institutionalized terrorism, IMF/WTO/World Bank-imposed privatization and 'restructuring' and subsidized agricultural exports that have displaced huge numbers of small farmers, 'drug-war' skullduggery and forced de-funding of critical social services and public infrastructure -- the concept of 'illegal immigration' falls-apart. It is actually economic and political self-defense.

Illegal immigration is a wedge issue primarily because most Americans are ignorant about, in denial, or unwilling to face the fact that America has taken outrageous advantage of and abused the basic civil and human rights of Latin American citizens in order to prop-up America's bloated standard of living and overextended debt. The principles of rule of law governing allowable and acceptable economic trade practices and respecting the sovereignty of foreign nations have been consistently violated by America's appeal to its imaginary sense of exceptionalism -- which constitutes a huge nationalistic blind spot.

Americans in general tend to be astonishingly uninformed and misinformed about genuine history and the real consequences of American foreign policy-- thanks in large part to its disingenuous mass media and the co-opted public education industry. For all the popular rhetoric about America's National pride, honor and sense of values, and championing the causes of freedom, peace and justice, to a very large extent the American public is clueless about how hypocritical and self-serving the US has been, and how complicit they are by not holding their leaders and policymakers accountable for America's devastating Imperialist pretensions.

Why is this migration taking place? It's not taking place because suddenly a bunch of people from Guatemala decide they want to take an eco-tour of the strawberry fields in the San Joaquin valley. It's because their communities are being destroyed through the theft of the land. If you don't want these people moving up here then don't steal those people's lands, pretty simple solution.

Yes it is a xenophobic sleight of hand but it is used, as it has been for centuries in America preceding Republican-Democrat nonsense, to point the finger at the victim so as to keep the eyes averted from the horrors being perpetrated upon those victims and to ignore or rationalize the colossal banditry for the beneficiaries. The liberal class is particularly hypocritical and criminally ignorant on this point.

The problem is really quite simple as is the solution.

The problem: El Norte is pushing them there "illegals" off of his ancestral lands so as to steal the resources that reside in Chiapas e.g.

The solution: Stop El Norte from stealing the resources of the people in Chiapas e.g.

NAFTA is merely the latest acronym-IMF the latest international syndicate-World Bank only the latest MoneyChanger in this ongoing colonial conquest.

[MellowDem]

33. The farmers ARE Capitalists, they are businesses, they are corporations...

I never understand how farmers get such a free pass in the US. I guess it's because they have good PR? Farmers are imagined to be family run businesses that barely scrape by. But the truth is a lot of farming anymore is done by megacorporations. And any farmer that hires illegal labor is essentially anti-labor. Not to mention engaged in illegal activity.

It's pretty much complete and utter bullcrap to claim that immigration is driven only by the sins of America's past. It is driven by market forces, by domestic policy of those nations, by population shifts, by industrialization. If you love Nafta, you should love open borders. Free trade and free labor; it's about as libertarian as you can get!

Also, illegal immigration is mostly from Mexico and Latin America because of proximity, not because of the evils of America's dealings with Latin America. Indeed, Latin America is looking up in many many ways and is growing quite rapidly. But America still is the better place to live in many ways, especially for the poor. These places are poor because they have as of yet to industrialize. They are behind in terms of development. But many of them are quickly catching up and even surpassing the US in some ways. Just look at Brazil. And you don't hear of too many Brazilian illegal immigrants here.

The problems in many Latin American countries nowadays are purely domestic. Do you think that millions of Europeans came here in the first place because America was exploiting Europe? Oh wait. It's because the domestic situations of Europe were so shitty, not to mention overpopulation and industrialization causing huge societal chaos, that people migrated. Your argument doesn't hold up or make sense. Not to mention, back in the day when America was REALLY fucking with Latin America, how come there wasn't HUGE amounts of illegal immigration then? It's because today's immigration is a reflection of a more connected world in terms of economics, and a much more populated world with less to no opportunities for many in countries that don't have much more than an agrarian economy. Industrialization is driving migration, population is driving migration, not the US. The US does encourage illegal immigration with lax borders though and looking the other way from corporations that hire them. There is a reason for that.

Your solution makes no sense. There are going to be bad places in the world without the US having anything to do with it. And people there will try to get away and to better places. It's the proximity. The solution is to crack down on corporations that hire illegal labor. Then no illegal labor could get hired and the reason for coming here illegally would go away.

I've seen your argument before, that immigration is caused by continued American imperialism of some sort or other, but it just doesn't hold up under more scrutiny. There was immigration before imperialism, and it is mostly traditional factors that have always driven human populations that are driving populations today to migrate.

[Hannah Bell]

34. "not because of the evils of America's dealings with Latin America. " - both.

[MellowDem]

35. Perhaps...

but I think the case is overstated here.

[Hannah Bell]

38. mexican immigration jumped several magnitudes due to neo-liberal policies in mexico &

the peso crisis, both of which pushed people out of their former occupations, small-holdings, etc.

that policy is straight out of dc, & both the us & mexico know precisely what they're doing & what the results will be.

[William Z. Foster]

40. don't worry

Farming, especially small family farming, is on the verge of collapse in this country and will soon be gone. Then all of the farming jobs will be in the countries from where the immigrants now are coming, and other places, grown on large corporate plantation farms, employing the same people at much lower wages and with much lower health and safety standards. You will be eating imported food, and wages will be depressed globally by the movement of food production to the poorest and most corrupt countries.

So, no need to be so angry. Your dreams will soon come true.

By the way, specialty crops are where unskilled labor is needed, and that is still dominated by thousands of small family farms of a couple hundred acres or so. Row crops are where the big players are and that is all mechanized. But don't let any facts get in the way of your angry tirade.

Another little item - there is a shortage of people interested in farm work and farming life at all levels, including farm owners. Immigrants from Latin America are the fastest growing group of new farm owners. Immigrants are not locked into unskilled labor positions.

[MellowDem]

62. I never said that small family farmers...

didn't employ illegal labor. I just said that many farms nowadays are owned by giant corporations, so the sympathetic view of farming families isn't exactly true. I'm sure that small family farms do hire illegal labor. Doesn't make it right.

[William Z. Foster]

64. no such thing

There is for all practical purposes no such thing as "illegal labor" and no farmer can or does intentionally or knowingly hire people or not hire them based on their legal status.

Specialty crops - which are where there is a need for labor - is still dominated by small family growers not "giant corporations." That is one of the last bastions of small family farms. Fear not, though, they are on the ropes and will soon be gone.

Corporations definitely control our food supply, but the money is not in growing, as anywhere from a penny to at most a dime from every consumer food dollar goes to the farmer. If farming were so lucrative we would not be seeing fewer and fewer farmers every year and fewer and fewer acres under cultivation.

There is nothing inherently "wrong" with people working, nor with people hiring others.

[William Z. Foster]

41. some more observations

The "go after the owners" approach is not decreasing the horrendous police state pressure on people of color, rather that pressure is increasing. "Go after the owners" was always a astalking horse for increasing police powers and having new ways to harass immigrants and those "suspected" of being immigrants - brown people - while getting liberals and Demicrats to go along with it.

With rural economies in free fall, we now have local young white people applying for farm work for the first time in decades - ten times more than we can hire. $10 an hour, health care and housing is now attractive to people who are not immigrants. Of course most people do not stay in entry level unskilled farm work - it is hard work (all farm work is hard and dangerous) - and people, virtually all people, try to move up to skilled labor positions as soon as they can. The locals will be able to do that more quickly. Why? Because they are educated and literate, because they can speak English, because they have grown up around equipment and vehicles, and so they can move on and up. But the right wingers are busy dismantling public education, so that will level the playing field. We do have young local whites interested in learning t drive a tractor and to trim and plant trees for the first time in decades. Farm life gets in your blood, so maybe this is where the next generation of farmers will come from.

Who knows, at the rate things are going, perhaps some day you will be applying here for a farm work position. Your ignorance of agriculture tells me that you would be best suited for an entry level position so you can learn from the ground up. That is how everyone starts, and at peak harvest we all have to pitch in. Should that day come, you and I can have a nice conversation and reminisce about the day we had this discussion. That will be good for some laughs.

[MellowDem]

63. Your condescension is showing...

You know, it is pretty much the excuse of all businesses everywhere that when someone doesn't like something about their industry, they just look at them condescendingly and say "well, you don't know anything about it!" Already heard that a million times. I don't know how my understanding of agriculture has anything to do with my understanding that illegal labor hurts legal labor and benefits business owners.

I guess we should be glad that the economic conditions have gotten so bad in this country that industries which long ago abandoned American workers for cheap, illegal labor now have a pool of citizens that are willing to work for their bad pay and work conditions. There are many jobs out there today that are even worse than being a farm worker, but they are jobs that Americans continue to do because they are unionized or because they pay well. Coal mining, what steel industry remains, etc., these pay very well, though in many cases not as well as they should, because they are dangerous, tough jobs.

I've already done my share of competing and working alongside illegal labor in my time. I know what it is all about. It is all about profit and shutting down labor.

[William Z. Foster]

65. don't be silly

All employers must at all times get the maximum return, for the cheapest labor available, or go out of business. That is the system. Capitalism is the problem - a system for buying and selling Labor and profiting from that. If you are going to attack farmers upon that basis, you are challenging our entire economic system. I think you should challenge our entire economic system. If you are unwilling to do that, and harbor some "regulated Capitalism" ideas, then farming is one of the best examples of a highly regulated industry, with Farm Credit eliminating real estate speculation, with an intensive regulatory and instruction regimen covering all aspects of the work, with price stabilization controls and limits of profiteering, and with comprehensive conservation and environmental impact programs in place.

I am not an owner, as you assume. I am not in favor of Capitalism in any form, as you assume. I support farm workers organizing. I support public subsidies for food production. I oppose any involvement whatsoever by Wall Street in the food system. I support public ownership of all farmland.

[bobbolink]

87. Excellent piece! Most people aren't really wanting to know the root causes, though.

That would mean that they would have to change, and change is what most people really, down deep, do NOT want.

:(

[county worker]

53. I wonder if you ever worked in the farm labor area or are you saying what you think is happening?

[MellowDem]

59. I wonder if you want to ask rhetorical questions or discuss something?

[Hello_Kitty]

39. This idea, while well intentioned, sorely misses the point and possibly adds gasoline to the fire.

And don't count on a big paycheck. Farm workers are excluded from federal overtime provisions, and small farms don't even have to pay the minimum wage. Fifteen states don't require farm labor to be covered by workers compensation laws.

Excuse me, but it seems the solution lies in changing THAT situation rather than engaging in more of this divisive "Americans are too lazy to work hard" rhetoric. This isn't going to change hearts and minds. It's going to piss people off. Meanwhile, the horrible exploitation of human beings on US farms will continue as clueless liberals wax poetic about the superior work ethic of "those people".

[William Z. Foster]

43. a few thoughts

Immigrants are illiterate and lack education. That is why farm work represents an opportunity for them that would otherwise be unavailable, while it does not represent and opportunity for those born and raised here - white or brown. The children of immigrants who have worked for the same farming families for 20 years or more here are now working on the farms as office help and in supervisory and sales positions. They have reading and language skills.

You say "the horrible exploitation of human beings on US farms" as though this were a fact. Farm work is hard and dangerous, always has been. All workers in this country in all industries are "horribly exploited." There are bad employers in farming just as in every other industry. No group of workers in this country can more dramatically improve their circumstances than immigrants can. Their children are eating and getting an education.

You say "clueless liberals wax poetic about the superior work ethic." Sorry, but people willing to travel thousands of miles into hostile territory in order to improve life for their families are a self-selecting highly motivated and determined group of people, and yes, it is true, that many Americans take the advantages the have for granted.

As I said in another post, we are seeing local white kids applying for farm work for the first time in decades as the economy collapses around our ears.

No one in farming makes any money and there is no industry more closely, strictly and frequently inspected, monitored and supervised for safety and labor violations by a wide variety of state and federal agencies than farming is.

[Hello_Kitty]

44. Care to comment on this?

http://www.hcn.org/issues/368/17649

Let me guess: "That happens in every industry!" :eyes:

[William Z. Foster]

47. yes

Thanks. Good article.

California is awful for farm workers. Not sure why that is the case. Larger corporate farms? Absentee land owners? Larger and more segregated populations? Racism in the Central Valley? Racism there is worse than I have ever seen it anywhere else in the country. Florida and Texas are not far behind.

Of course sexual harassment happens in every industry and of course the lower skilled people and poor people are always more vulnerable.

Many good comments in that article:

"The failure of Congress to pass a pragmatic immigration policy or to create legal pathways to naturalization for the people - many with children - who have lived and worked in this country for decades only intensifies the challenges these women face."

Yes.

"In the absence of federal policy, some Western counties and cities have passed punitive anti-immigration ordinances. An increasing number of communities require English-only signage, prohibit renting apartments to the undocumented, and fine or revoke the licenses of employers caught hiring those without papers."

This is an important factor. The anti-immigrant hysteria is out of control.

"The threat of deportation and separation from their families makes these women even more reluctant to report sexual assault." Agreed. This is a strong argument for amnesty."

Absolutely.

""I hope this will help the broader public - people who don't work directly with farmworkers or sexual assault victims - become more invested in the issue, " says Heather Huhtanen of the Oregon attorney general's Sexual Assault Task Force, which is hosting bandana displays at two locations in Salem."

We will contact this organization and pledge our full support, and spread the word among the hundreds of small farmers we know and work with.

[Hello_Kitty]

48. The passages you quote are relevant but not, IMO, the most important aspect of the story

This is:

In several recent cases brought before federal court in California, women who resisted advances were fired or suspended without pay.

Those cases show that owners KNOW it is happening and allow it. Those sainted family farmers are basically giving women to supervisors as rewards. That's not the fault of a lack of a federal immigration policy. Why do you need a federal policy to not let your supervisors rape the workers?

[William Z. Foster]

49. yes of course

That is a problem everywhere. We need much stronger protections for all workers, especially women and people of color. Many immigrants being in legal limbo makes them more vulnerable. Of course.

In those cases those employers should see serious jail time. Of course. Speaking of which, rape is epidemic in prisons and in immigration detention centers.

Who is talking about "sainted family farmers?" Farmers are no better than any other employers. Why would they be?

[Hello_Kitty]

46. How about this?

http://www.hcn.org/wotr/14481

Gosh, these kids don't seem to be working in the office or in supervisory/sales positions! Then again, when you have a neat deal where pesky child labor laws don't apply to you (nor do minimum wage or overtime laws) you don't really have to worry about being "...closely, strictly and frequently inspected, monitored and supervised for safety and labor violations by a wide variety of state and federal agencies...", do you?

[William Z. Foster]

60. good grief

All children work on the farm. At one time most of the children in this country worked on the farm.

There is absolutely no advantage whatsoever to hiring children for fruit picking. Most farmers at one time allowed workers to bring their children with them. Fancy white folks call that "bringing your child to work day." That was by choice of the parents, Did the kids want to help and pitch in? Of course. But no child can pick fruit efficiently or carefully.

Farm labor is so tightly regulated, the rules and paperwork are so complex and exhaustive, that it would be impossible - as well as stupid and bad business = to hire child labor or violate the law, It is not happening for all practical purposes.

Teenagers on farms go to safety schools, tractor training, can drive, and work their asses off. That has been true since the beginning of time.

The laws that apply to farmers regarding workers are different than in other industries, yes. They are more strict and more tightly enforced.

[treestar]

45. Well that's true

No type of work should be exempt from any of those protections.

[county worker]

55. Where did you get that quote?

[Hello_Kitty]

67. From the article in the OP. eom

[SunnySong]

84. Thank you labor laws and protections should apply to all. nt

[county worker]

51. About 7 years ago I was the controller of the largest farm labor contractor in the San Joaquin

valley. We had a payroll of over 3000 each week. People were constantly coming in to apply for the jobs in the fields. The corporate farms did not hire workers directly, they contracted for them. We supplied the tools, training and workers comp insurance. We paid 8 to 10 dollars per hour with health insurance benefits and paid time off.

I was there for 3 years and never once saw an Anglo apply for a job in the fields.

[maryf]

77. no surprise...

thanks for the info!

[amandabeech]

79. About 7 years ago, there were lots of jobs.

Now, a huge number of those are gone from the U.S., and the people who sent those jobs away tell us that those jobs are never coming back. Our leadership, which gets nice campaign donations and cushy post-governmental jobs, won't lift a finger to help us.

We can lay people off from their jobs, but we cannot lay them off from citizenship. It may not happen overnight, but your area may end up like my home town--anglos looking for farm work.

My guess is that these days, if you advertised in the papers or on the internet in areas that have been hard by unemployment, you'd get some takers with Euro-American backgrounds. Getting group health insurance would be a huge draw these days.

[Artie Bucco]

70. I know some have said it but young people are soft

I work at a UPS warehouse. It is very physical work it has good benefits and is a union job but despite that it has a very high turnover rate. I have been there for nearly 4 years and I have seen a revolving door of young people come and go. This was my first job and it still is but I will admit that the job has helped me out a lot. I get $1,500 for school per semester and I am due to graduate with two degrees along with a teachers certification next spring. If young guys can't stand a job like that than I really don't see them lasting at a job like this.

[maryf]

76. Amen.

Some of my students have a problem keeping jobs in fast food...and they are being taught no practical skills.

[Name removed]

78. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gjp]

85. minimum wage

If legal U.S. citizens apply for the jobs they would have to be paid minimum wage or they could turn in the employer.Think their gonna be hired? I think not.So all this is gonna do is make it look like there were no applicants.Not many legal citizens are gonna work with a crew of illegals because of the feeling of being an outsider in thier own country.There are chicken processing plants in this area dominated by illegals. Noone wants to work in them now because of the feeling of being an alien in your own city. The owners pushed out locals when hispanics became the majority by advancing them and then "cutting" back saying that since they hadnt been on a line they wouldnt know how to run processing anymore.How would you feel if you were in management and you were told you werent needed anymore because you had been in management too long? My son and his friends,who are in high school picks up hay, cleans chicken houses and lots of other farm work,so dont tell me younger people wont work.

[William Z. Foster]

86. welcome to DU

"Not many legal citizens are gonna work with a crew of illegals because of the feeling of being an outsider in thier own country."

Thanks for admitting that the issue is all about "feelings" about "them."

[treestar]

88. Um, they'd refuse a job because they'd be surrounded by brown people?

That's what I'm getting out of this.