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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 12:53 AM
Original message
As Netroots Nation starts this week, some Democrats warn the liberals.
Okay, I know people here don't like the use of the word liberal, or even the left. However I don't know how else to refer to those who want the party stand up for issues rather than be so bipartisan. In this article Will Marshall and Artur Davis express concerns about the upcoming convention of netroots.

I don't know why they would worry. There are plenty of Democrats of all shapes and sizes and beliefs who will be there.

In addition to Van, you'll hear from Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Majority Leader Harry Reid, Sen. Al Franken, Secretary of Transportation Ray LaHood, Elizabeth Warren, Gov. Brian Schweitzer, Ed Schultz, Sen. Jeff Merkley, Sen. Ben Cardin, Sen. Tom Udall, Rep. Alan Grayson, Rep. Raul Grijalva, Rep. Jared Polis, Rep. Donna Edwards, Rep. Jerrold Nadler, Rich Trumka, Jennifer O’Malley Dillion, Jon Vogel, J.B. Poersch, Tim Wise, Lizz Winstead, Majora Carter, Markos Moulitsas, Tarryl Clark, Bill Halter, George Goehl, Phaedra Ellis-Lamkins, Deepak Bhargava, Gerald McEntee, Eliseo Medina and many more.

http://www.netrootsnation.org/


This article by McClatchy News says the convention will test Democratic activists. Not really sure how that is meant.

Liberal 'netroots' convention will test Democratic activists

Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi will be speaking early on I think.

Activists in the liberal blogosphere face a crossroads: They had tremendous success in 2008 helping to turn voter anger into votes for Democrats, but persuading Congress and the White House to adopt their agenda is much harder.

Starting on Thursday, Netroots Nation will convene for four days in Las Vegas. There its members will quiz House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., among others, about why Washington doesn't move more quickly to end the Afghanistan war or give more help to the millions who are out of work. They'll probably be told that (a) Washington works in complex, deliberate ways, and one should be happy to achieve 80 percent of one's goals, and (b) since Democrats took control of Washington 18 months ago, they've won the enactment of historic legislation on health care, economic stimulus and financial regulation — no small achievements.


Really now, get a load of what PPI/DLC leader Will Marshall has to say about the netroots. Frankly I don't like what he said.

Will Marshall, the president of the Progressive Policy Institute, a moderate Democratic research group, put the dilemma differently:

"Have they matured?" he asked of the netroots. "They have to decide whether they want to make the grubby political compromises often needed to govern effectively."

There's another big question to be answered at this gathering: How does the Democratic Party deal with them


Have they matured? Strange question, indeed.

Artur Davis had some odd words for our sort.

"There is a growing gap between the base of the Democratic Party and the voters who will decide the election," said Rep. Artur Davis, D-Ala., who ran as a centrist for governor of Alabama and lost his party's primary.

While "most Democrats have at least a touch of economic populism," he said, many recoil at being asked to vow blind allegiance to any rigid ideology. The more they fear that Democrats are lurching left, he said, the more they will look elsewhere politically.


Wow, I wonder what he means about looking "elsewhere politically"? Hmmmmm...

You know, this is the first Netroots Nation formerly Yearly Kos that I remember without Howard Dean there. I just noticed he was not on the list of speakers. Seems odd.

I did hear an interview he gave last week to VPR about Vermont's long trail and his role in preserving and hiking it. In that interview he said he was recovering from hip surgery.

The Long Trail: Vermont's Footpath Through History

We return now to our celebration of the Long Trail on its 100th anniversary, with one of the men who helped secure its future in Vermont.

During his terms in office former Governor Howard Dean worked with legislators to conserve much of the trail. He spoke to VPR's Mitch Wertlieb by phone from his home in Burlington, where he's been recovering from hip surgery.

Dean says his first steps on the Long Trail were taken some 40 years ago, before he even moved to Vermont and the experience was unforgettable.


That's a possibility why he is not on the list.

I find myself wanting to answer Will Marshall's question about whether we have grown up. Such an insulting thing to say. I would say to him to define maturity. My definition is that we are able to recognize when we are being talked about as lesser citizens and lesser Democrats.

There has been enough of that.

I would like to ask him if it is mature of our party to concede so much to the religious right on women's issues.

I would like to ask him if he thinks it is right to turn public education over to billionaires who really know nothing about educating children.

I would to ask Artur Davis where he plans to look politically, and has he thought about listening to the voices of these people they call netroots and liberals.
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Hawkowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 01:00 AM
Response to Original message
1. I would tell
Will Marshall to go fuck himself. And I mean that in mature, mean, nasty way that only a very angry middle aged man can.

I would tell Arthur Davis that his following his own "advice" is the reason he is a loser.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Face to face with either I would probably not say anything.
I would be biting my tongue.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
58. Good on YOU....Took the words right out of my mouth! n/t
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
2. Seems the 'grownups' are all about fighting wars and further enriching the already rich.
If that's what they think constitutes maturity, they can have it.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Seems that way sometimes.
:hi:
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 02:49 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. They aren't grownups, they are spoiled, screaming brats with their heads in the sand
who think they can get away with bullying, endless greed, and very bad choices forever. They aren't so much children as they are baboons. Actually, baboons, though violent, don't purposely destroy their home. x(
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Umbral Donating Member (969 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 02:06 AM
Response to Original message
5. When someone questions your maturity, they are trying to manipulate you.
Edited on Mon Jul-19-10 02:14 AM by Umbral
There are those who may do this with your best interests at heart, Will Marshall is not one of those people. Neither he nor Lieberman belong to any party I will ever support.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. +1000 nt
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 02:46 AM
Response to Original message
7. Did George W. Bush ever " have to decide whether (he) wants to make the grubby
political compromises often needed to govern effectively"? No, he did not. He decided what he wanted then demanded that the Democrats give him just that, and they did.

I'd say that The more they fear that Democrats are lurching RIGHT, the more they will look elsewhere politically.
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pretzel4gore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #7
76. junyer couldn't even wipe his own butt...
i agree with basic idea, but leave the youngster outta it. likle reagan, he never was a power politician- leading the reactionary right could easily be a job for sara palin or homer simpson- and the fraud is ongoing because vast sums are spent preventing truth etc from being recognised. Stealing candy from a baby is easy, and using our base motives, sexism, racism, greed, avarice, ignorance, cruelty etc, to turn us against our own best interest, has always been the trick used by tyrants to tyrannise their people.
See 'gulf of mexico oil spill' or 'war on terror/drugs' if clinical examples of 'taking candy from a baby' are needed
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Yuugal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 03:13 AM
Response to Original message
9. I would like to tell Will
I'll be smiling when his DLC blue dogs get their asses handed to them this fall. I'm old enough to remember all the DLC tricks from the late 80's and 90's and they haven't even changed their talking points. I can remember the betrayal too. It still stings.

He can booga booga booga all he wants about the "scary" repukes but he and his ilk are just as bad. I guess I just don't scare easy anymore. I just did 8 yrs of the gobp having all the marbles. I lived through it and can do it again while waiting for a real progressive. I did make a mistake voting for Obama but he insisted he wasn't DLC/ppp/third way/new dem and even went through the trouble of having his name pulled from the DLC site......BEFORE the election. Just recently though, Obama was quoted as saying, "I am a new democrat" As if we all hadn't guessed that already.

So we were had. Whatever. I'll keep working toward my goals whatever the DLC turds do. They need to remember to never expect any help from me though, I hate them more than the repukes because at least the republickers are honest about how much they want to steal from us: they want it all. The DLC wants to steal just as much from us but they pretend to be our friends and then stab us in the back every single time and they call it pragmatism, I call it cowardice. I despise betrayal and my local blue dog better not come by and ask to put a sign in my yard or ask for any money this time or I just might sic my own dog on him.....I'm giving my time, my effort and my money to the greens around here until the dems run a real progressive.

What good is a big tent if the blue dogs you let in pee all over the canvas and chew on the support ropes?
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 03:19 AM
Response to Original message
10. Oh please, we lived like lambs in a slaughter house under Dick Cheney
8 year rule over America(tm). Dems in charge are still stupid with winning that they forget to ask the actual intellectual part of the party for guidance...hence sticking their heads in the sand and asking the GOP to help them fail in new and unimaginative ways. Need a good helping of lies? No problem John Kerry or John McCain as long as it is slander and you will put up with the embarrassment.

Ya want to fail...then act like aristocratic assholes and fail. Whatever, Bush was a horrible nightmare I can survive anything now.
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Yuugal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 03:30 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Wow looks like we think alike
I think there are millions of us and the people on this site and elsewhere who say we are just a tiny minority are going to be very surprised when their base doesn't show up because none of our issues are being addressed. These people are too arrogant and/or clueless to throw their base any bones. Sad. In a way blue dogs/DLC are much worse than republickers because repukes don't try to steal my party away from me as well as my kid's future.

There already is a corporate party and we don't need two. I hope the door hits the Al From clones real hard in the ass this Nov. No matter who wins the wars will keep going on as well as the looting of SS and so many other evils. The enemy is inside the gates as well as outside.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. I really didn't think much of government growing up because Ronald
Wilson Reagan was in office during my teen years. Thought he was a chump, thought Bush Sr. was a sucker, still do two decades later. I've never really said how I feel about the DLC, but will say this - without the presence of evil they would do exactly whatever liberals told them to. As long as we keep paying them and sending them to serve, we keep an even greater evil out of that seat. It IS a shit sandwich, but nowbody said life was fair. Well rich people say that, because life is very fair to them.

I think it is too late, but hey I'm just being doom and gloom before bedtime. We won't get any bones or table scaps, we never do. The working class always falls for the carrot, because they really hate the stick.
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HillbillyBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 06:09 AM
Response to Reply #12
69. We need to take that stick and beat the hell out of them
the raygun/Carter election was the first I was old enough to vote in and I did vote for Carter.
and the mcturtle is on the screen whining about the dems spending spree. WTF is wrong with the idiots taht keep sending McCon job back to congress?

Of course the pukes keep on about the Ds losing control of house /senate..now Today brings on that turn Neut(er) Gingrich..Thank RCA for comin up with remote mute button!

I have watched our country become KKKuntry where up is down and down is up and
'Alice' would think this so far beyond the looking glass......
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 03:48 AM
Response to Original message
13. William Marshall doesn't want me to "mature", he wants me to drop dead.
lol

Seriously, is that the best argument he has? My kids did better in 7th grade.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 04:01 AM
Response to Original message
14. Will, you have your panties in a bunch
Have you stopped beating your wife?
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 04:09 AM
Response to Original message
15. "Rigid ideology" ? WTF are they talking about?
What is "rigid" about wanting policies that treat human beings with decency? Sounds like something with huge flexibility in implementation and focus.
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 05:55 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Sounds like he is thinking that anything left of Rahm Emmanuel is "Socialism"
...if the centerist Democrats are this fucking stupid, no wonder the far RWers are raving...


mark
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #15
52. They have used words like that for years when discussing us.
I guess they think we are expendable in the overall scenario of things.
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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #15
81. rigid idealogy like socialism for the rich, cold-hearted capitalism for the rest
Every time the "centrists" use the excuse of bipartisanship to move the center a step to the right, the Rethugs move two steps farther right. They're already practically fascists in all but name, how much farther to the right to we need to go?

Does nobody remember our "dear leader" Bush's power grab?
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 05:12 AM
Response to Original message
16. Ray LaHood - Republican will be there
Oh joy, oh rupture
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #16
36. I wonder why?
:shrug:
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-10 03:30 AM
Response to Reply #16
87. LOL
Can I steal that? :D
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 06:14 AM
Response to Original message
18. There was a time when maturity meant doing the difficult things..
Mature people stick to their principles even when the going gets tough.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #18
32. I remember times like that.
Long ago.
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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 06:18 AM
Response to Original message
19. Speaking of "blind allegiance to rigid ideologies"...
Edited on Mon Jul-19-10 06:18 AM by JHB
...how about a little more economic populism and a little less slavish, rigid adherence to neoliberal, free-marketeer, "pro-business"(read: pro-corporate/pro-wealthy) ideology?


There's nothing rigid or radical about wanting an economy that puts those trying to get ahead before those who already are. We used to have that here in this country. It had its problems, but it worked better than anything we had before or since at actually accomplishing the good things we claim about our country and economic system. Then Reagan ushered in a seismic shift in our economic structure, and made speculation and liquidation easier than building and real investment.

I think the DLCers are like generals preparing to fight the last war rather than the one they face. It was formed at a time when demographic shifts had strengthened the hand of the Republicans, fund-raising shifts weakened traditional Democratic sources, and the prosperity of the tech boom let them ignore some of the longer-range problems.

Now, the shift from cities to suburbs has played out, and the Republicans are actively chasing away the immigrant sector. Online fund-raising is still relatively new and developing, an alternative to the DLC's favored big-donor and corporate fund-raising that didn't exist when they formed. And the economy just ain't booming outside of Wall Street. That's going to make a lot of voters receptive to more than "a touch of economic populism", which is squarely at odds with the DLC's base. That doesn't bode well, especially among DLCers who view "activists" through the lens of the late 60's through early '80s -- as (in their view) rigid, radical troublemakers who chased away the center. (without even getting into what exactly counts as "the center").

This does no bode well.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #19
30. "rigid adherence to neoliberal free-marketeer pro-business(read pro-corporate/pro-wealthy) ideology"
well put.
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KakistocracyHater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #30
64. the Sharia of the "Free Market"
dogma sucks, when proven wrong, it blows.
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #19
35. "I think the DLCers are like generals preparing
to fight the last war rather than the one they face."

EXACTLY. That's it in a sentence. They had their place, but their place was 15/20 years ago. I would only add that their not only unprepared to fight the present war, but also unprepared for the NEXT one too.
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ljm2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #19
61. Well said!
The adherence to rigid ideologies is on the right these days, not the left.

Interesting analysis. That Wall Street thing is a real poke in the eye, isn't it.
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 04:19 AM
Response to Reply #19
66. The DLC is really
a right wing stink tank undermining democratic principles in the Democratic Party.
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-10 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #19
88. Amen! eom
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Ruby the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 06:28 AM
Response to Original message
20. "The more they fear that Democrats are lurching left,
he said, the more they will look elsewhere politically."

Says the "centrist" who "lost his party's primary"...

Couldn't be that he wasn't far enough to the left to carry the party. Must be that Dems are suddenly craving RW ideologies.

:eyes:
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #20
57. Let them "look elsewhere politically"...We've been trying to get rid
of these DLC sell-outs for years!
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #20
59. That "elsewhere" sounds like heading right to me.
And once again not paying attention to the ones who worked for this majority.
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Ruby the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #59
62. This dude lost his primary yet STILL didn't get it.
Self-fulfilling prophecy?
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 06:33 AM
Response to Original message
21. George Bush...
... had 8 years of indulgent immaturity but we can't have even one month of maturity.

Fuck that.
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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 06:44 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. You know what they used to call hardline conservatives berating Reagan and GHWBush...
...for being insufficiently conservative?



CNN's "Crossfire".
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 07:20 AM
Response to Original message
23. If you want to control policy, you have to win lots of elections.
This is not new.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
24. Have we matured? How does the party deal with us?
That's insulting. We're not lemmings blindly following our leaders over a cliff . . . like that other party.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #24
31. It appears he equates maturity with following leaders, no matter what.
That is kind of sad.
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Nay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #24
84. If they keep it up, they won't have to deal with me much longer. Nor
many other Dems on this site.
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
25. ArrrrGGGGhhhhhh. The Marginalization! It Buuuuurrrrrrnnnnnns! ArrrrrGGGGGhhhhhh
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #25
55. Indeed it does, Stinky.
It does indeed.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 07:47 AM
Response to Original message
26. And I've got a warning for Mr. Marshall and Mr. Davis and I will
post them this week on my blog. It is time to punch back. I will hard.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
27. Will Marshall is a NEOCON regardless of what he calls his group:
In the introduction to the 2006 book With All Our Might: A Progressive Strategy for Defeating Jihadism and Defending Liberty, editor Will Marshall, president of the Progressive Policy Institute (PPI), promotes what he calls “progressive internationalism” as opposed to the “conservative unilateralism” of the George W. Bush administration. He argues that the Iraq War is part of a larger strategy for “building a world safe for individual liberty and democracy,” and that the “Bush Republicans have been tough but they have not been smart” in directing the course of the war in Iraq. Part of being smart is “using our strengths,” says Marshall. “Democrats must be committed to preserving America's military predominance, because a strong military undergirds U.S. global leadership.”

-snip

A core member of a neoconservative-like vanguard within the Democratic Party establishment, Marshall has been instrumental in creating organizations that have worked to move the party to the right on everything from foreign to economic policies. With Al From, in 1985 Marshall cofounded the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC), an important bastion of center-right Democrats that was once chaired by Sen. Joseph Lieberman (D-CT). In 1989, Marshall founded the PPI, a think tank that is affiliated with the DLC. Marshall and From were both staffers for Rep. Gillis Long (D-LA), who was the chairman of the House Democratic Party Caucus in the early 1980s. Marshall served as Long's speechwriter and policy analyst and was also senior editor of the 1984 House Democratic Caucus policy blueprint, “Renewing America's Promise.”

-snip

Marshall was one of 15 analysts who co-wrote the PPI's October 2003 foreign policy blueprint, “Progressive Internationalism: A Democratic National Security Strategy.” Using language that closely mirrors that of the neoconservative-led Project for the New American Century (PNAC), the PPI hailed the “tough-minded internationalism” of past Democratic presidents such as Harry Truman. Like PNAC, which in its founding statement warned of grave present dangers confronting America, the PPI strategy declared that, “Today America is threatened once again” and is in need of assertive individuals committed to strong leadership. The authors' observation that, “like the Cold War, the struggle we face today is likely to last not years but decades,” echoes both neoconservative and Bush administration national security assessments. As the “Progressive Internationalism” authors explain, the PPI endorsed the invasion of Iraq “because the previous policy of containment was failing, because Saddam posed a grave danger to America as well as to his own brutalized people, and because his blatant defiance of more than a decade's worth of UN Security Council resolutions was undermining both collective security and international law.”



http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1295
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #27
39. You should post this as an OP
Marshall is a neocon enabling ass.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #39
46. here you go:
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #27
50. Will Marshall's "Progressive" Internationalism was part of the DLC's "Democratic" platform in 2004
Edited on Mon Jul-19-10 01:10 PM by Sebastian Doyle
and was one big reason why so many didn't see the point in voting for Kerry over the Chimp.

That election may have been stolen in Ohio, but it was lost in Iowa. :evilfrown:
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
28. And it's funny I just did a piece on him, the DLC, and the Catfood Commission.
Edited on Mon Jul-19-10 08:15 AM by mmonk
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
29. "I would say to him to define maturity." I think he did define maturity, right after that quote.
Edited on Mon Jul-19-10 08:19 AM by BzaDem
"They have to decide whether they want to make the grubby political compromises often needed to govern effectively."

Seems like a pretty straightforward definition to me.

(It really isn't a left-right thing either. After all, even Bernie Sanders and Dennis Kucinich voted for HCR and FinReg.)
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #29
33. Yep. To him maturity is not standing for beliefs, it is compromising.
Some things are worth standing up for.
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #33
54. You can stand up for all of your beliefs all of the time when you are in the minority.
I think many people here would love that.
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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #29
38. The dispute, then, is as to which grubby political compromises are made.
Edited on Mon Jul-19-10 11:24 AM by JHB
And to what is done to push the terms of the compromise in the desired direction.

There are plenty of activists and Netroots attendees who understand perfectly well that compromises are necessary. However, the raw condescention and dismissiveness by the president of PPI calls into question his own maturity and ability to govern effectively.

This guy doesn't know when to vent in private and when to put on the public smiley face? I'll be the first to admit my own private business ventures haven't been successful, but we could tell damn well who were the loose cannons you kept away from the clients. Why is one running PPI?

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #29
56. I fear our side does all the compromising out of fear of their side's wrath.
That worries me a lot.

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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 06:03 AM
Response to Reply #56
68. Can you name one important bill where we compromised out of fear of anything other than the bill
failing?

For the stimulus, we got exactly the number of votes required to pass and not a vote more.

For HCR, we got exactly the number of votes required to pass and not a vote more.

For FinReg, we got exactly the number of votes required to pass and not a vote more.
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
34. much safer to only appear before the Business Roundtable
or if they are in a daring mood, the Chamber of Commerce.
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #34
42. So true.
Nothing like a nice friendly audience, eh?
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
37. Have they matured? Perhaps maturing to him means, accept the
policies we construct and advance, even when you know how they will impact most Americans.

How does the Democratic party deal with them? I'm all ears pal, how are you going to encourage a percentage of Democrats to support you
as they do understand what your policies will do for the majority of Americans, and refuse to shut up about it.

I can't wait to find out!

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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
40. DLC is running scared and for good reason.
Edited on Mon Jul-19-10 11:51 AM by Individualist
More and more voters are becoming aware of DLC's neocon enabling agenda. However, DLC still won't accept the political realiy that their bullying, insults and condescension will get them nowhere.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. which is why I will only vote for Dems that are progressive & working in behalf
of people. It enables them when national/state parties throw their support behind corporate candidates and attempt to crush progressives in primaries. Once primaries are over they're calling saying "would you rather have a Republican win?" If we keep voting for these DINOs then the circle continues. I'm done with that. I will only work/contribute/vote for candidate that are working on behalf on people.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
41. "mature" = accepting "grubby political compromises" that kill people.
It's like the military saying, "Sacrifice few to save many". Which is jim-dandy as long as you're not part of the few.

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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
43. Calling people names is just so mature!
Expecially people whose votes you will need whether you like it or not. Maybe our question should be 'are people like him willing to accept the grubby reality that when you betray the voters, THEY tend to go look somewhere else'?

Immature is what these people are, temper-tantrum throwing, no-one-knows-anything-but-me children. I've met a few of them online, operatives who have no clue how to get people on their side, and who still haven't figured out that Democrats won in SPITE of them, not because of them last time. We were mature enough to overlook the boorish, controlling, name-calling etc. to do what we thought was right. But that was then, this is now.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
44. Here are the other speakers, many pages. I know very few of them.
I really must be out of touch lately, as I recognize so few of them.

:shrug:
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
47. Will PNAC Marshall has no right to tell any Democrat or Liberal what to think
As a founder of the DLC & a PNAC signator, he has been proven 100% WRONG about every stinking piece of shit that comes out of his diseased mind.
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. Hear, hear!
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #47
65. Thank you for the reminder. Instead of spouting off he should be spending time with his family. nt
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
49. Guess what, Will Marshall. We're only Bloggers. We don't have to make grubby compromises
It's the people in power that have to do that. It's our job to push them as hard as we can.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. "It's our job to push them as hard as we can."
Good point. :hi:
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
53. k&r
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
60. Have they matured?" Oh yes, demanding rights is soooo immature.
This statement is the hallmark of a bully.
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #60
74. That was the sentence that pissed me off too
Another insult. Like it's immature to expect social justice out of the Democratic Party. And immature to expect leftist positions REPRESENTED in the Democratic Party. The party that's ALWAYS been (in the past) more the party of the people.

Just another fucking centrist insult to the actual base of the Democratic Party.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
63. Oh, really? And how many "grubby political compromises" did Bush make?
And somehow, HIS ability to "govern effectively" have NEVER been questioned, either during or since his reign of error.

I fact, SOME have pined for his "governing style".

What a steaming, fetid load of you know what.
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cornermouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 05:32 AM
Response to Original message
67. Kicking back to the top.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 06:28 AM
Response to Original message
70. kick
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pattmarty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 06:42 AM
Response to Original message
71. Say what you want about "liberal" (or whatever "WE" are called now)......
people in the party, but without US, YOU fucking lose. The belief that Obama was the "liberal saviour" is what got out new, young and liberal voters to put him over the top. Now, a majority of those voters will probably stay home in 2010. I really truly believe that the "party" has to return to its roots of the poor, working, middle class and small business to retain control of government. If they can't or won't do this then we are fucked. You will basically have two parties of "bad and worse".
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 06:53 AM
Response to Original message
72. Politician

Hey now baby, get into my big black car
Hey now baby, get into my big black car
I wanna just show you what my politics are.

I'm a political man and I practice what I preach
I'm a political man and I practice what I preach
So don't deny me baby, not while you're in my reach.

I support the left, tho' I'm leanin', leanin' to the right
I support the left, tho' I'm leanin' to the right
But I'm just not there when it's coming to a fight.


Hey now baby, get into my big black car
Hey now baby, get into my big black car
I wanna just show you what my politics are.



Hey, hey now baby, get into my big black car
Hey now baby, get into my big black car
I wanna just show you what my politics are.

I support the left, tho' I'm leanin'to the right
I support the left, tho' I'm leanin' to the right
But I'm just not there when, when it's coming to a fight.


Political man and I practice what I preach
Political man and I practice what I preach
But I'm just not there, when you're in my reach.

Hey now baby, get into my big black car
Hey now baby, get into my big black car
I wanna just show you what my politics are.

Hey, hey, hey
I wanna just show you what my politics are.

Jack Bruce, Pete Brown
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
73. Arthur Davis lost his Primary. So why is he handing out advice?
To advise me, you have to win. Your theories have to have lead to proven victories, not to whining as a failed 'centrist' whatever the hell a centrist is, other than half GOP. Davis failed. He was rejected by the voters. Democrats took a pass on Davis. And yet he blathers on as if he had actually shown the skills to win.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
75. The weaklings speak!
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rurallib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
77. The DLC is now the republicans of 1994
how do I know? Look at the health insurance bill.
I know not who Will Marshall is, but the more the Dems want to be republican lite, the more they will get whipped.
Compromise is one thing, caving is another. Giving away the store before you negotiate is also a very bad strategy.

Right now the only reason I am voting for many Dems this fall is that Republicans are so bad. But sadly our candidate is not a hell of a lot better.

I am liberal and damned proud to be liberal. And if the Dems do not want my ilk any more, I am sure I can be appreciated somewhere.
Where are the people who followed the philosophy of FDR and HST?
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
78. "progressive Policy Institute"--
The very name bespeaks "Leftwashing."
The Democratic moral equivalent of the Clear Skies Initiative.
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on point Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
79. "More Mature" means getting "real" and joining in on the corruption game
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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
80. Right on!
Bravo for the great post, Madfloridian! And bravo to netroots!

We liberals have been pushed to the side for far too long.
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theFrankFactor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
82. Gee, Nancy and Harry Were UNSTOPPABLE During the Bush Years!
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
83. THIS liberal is warning Democrats
Stand up for your party's platform or you will be gone. That includes you, Ms. Speaker and you, Mr. President. Stop (and this is aimed more at Obama and the Blue Dogs than at Pelosi) catering to corporations or you will be gone. Enough said.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
85. Why do those we elect always ignore
what has been said and proven over and over. Truman is supposed to have said: "If you give the people a choice between a watered-down Republican and a Republican, they will choose the real thing every time."

Why do they always think that the middle will get them elected. No one thought Obama was the middle. This country thought he was going to change the way the republicans did things. Instead, he has codified it, made their wildest dreams come true. It hasn't gotten him one republican vote. It has cost him the support of the most massive grass roots volunteer army I have worked with in my forty plus years of working the elections for Democrats. The crew I worked with in 2008 has disappeared. They have either told me to forget calling them this time or have simply gone off the radar. Yet again and again, Obama and his advisors seek to win the approval of those they who will never approve, while losing the respect of those you trusted him.
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-10 03:27 AM
Response to Original message
86. I wonder what, exactly,
Edited on Wed Jul-21-10 03:35 AM by Cherchez la Femme
the difference IS between "base of the Democratic Party
and
the voters who will decide the election"


By my reading, I take he's talking about strictly the Democratic Party, so seriously, :wtf:?
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