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uncommon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-10 02:33 PM
Original message
Economic Bill of Rights
Excerpt from President Roosevelt's January 11, 1944 message to the Congress of the United States on the State of the Union:

“It is our duty now to begin to lay the plans and determine the strategy for the winning of a lasting peace and the establishment of an American standard of living higher than ever before known. We cannot be content, no matter how high that general standard of living may be, if some fraction of our people—whether it be one-third or one-fifth or one-tenth—is ill-fed, ill-clothed, ill-housed, and insecure.

This Republic had its beginning, and grew to its present strength, under the protection of certain inalienable political rights—among them the right of free speech, free press, free worship, trial by jury, freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures. They were our rights to life and liberty.

As our nation has grown in size and stature, however—as our industrial economy expanded—these political rights proved inadequate to assure us equality in the pursuit of happiness.

We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. “Necessitous men are not free men.”

People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.

In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

For unless there is security here at home there cannot be lasting peace in the world."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When did we become a nation of people who don't care about each other? I have seen it even in myself and had to take a few steps back and remind myself what life is about and that the people around me, regardless of whatever their circumstances or failings might be, are human beings who deserve to be treated as such.

What the hell are we doing??? What is it about socialism that people don't like? Why do we let the right-wing machine scare us into abusing each other and voting against our own self-interest?
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-10 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. people don't like socialism cause they are comfortable and
think that one day they will be part of the wealthiest 1%
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uncommon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-10 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. How did they convince us of this when 50 or so years ago most people seemed
to understand quite well that it was bologna?
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-10 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. I think it had to do with "Morning in America"
Why think when all is good?

Raygun, GHWB, Clinton, W., and now Obama - they are all supply siders / small government / free trade..

Since it is the only game in town, it must be true..
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uncommon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-10 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I don't want to play anymore...
I just don't see an end in sight. Everyone takes the way things are as gospel.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-10 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. I've been thinking of joining the WFP
I really don't see much benefit from being a dem. I've been thinking of switching parties to the working families party. It is just a labor union cover party, but at least it is a step in the right direction.

peace and low stress. and courage..
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-10 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. Americans don't like the word Socialism thanks to a multi-generational
campaign to demonize the very word but the ideas live on and all but the worst of us will agree on any of these issues.

Just don't call it Socialism at the national level.
:kick: & R

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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-10 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
4. By right do you mean govt. taking money from some other worker to pay for the things you list above?
At the same time if you claim those things as rights then certainly you don't object to government imposing a few of its rights on you such as the right to have no more than one child as China did.

A simple majority vote is all that's needed by the People's representatives to limit population growth to rates sustainable by an economy controlled by central committees that make the decisions involving production.
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uncommon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-10 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Yes, I do. As long as everyone can live and sustain themselves and their families
and enjoy a good and equitable quality of life. People are more productive when they feel safe and fulfilled and like they have worth.

I have mixed feelings about population restrictions.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-10 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. By "live and sustain themselves and their families" do you mean without taking taking money from
some other worker?

Those who "can live and sustain themselves and their families" don't need all the government programs you assert as rights in the OP.

Population is just one example of a right government might impose upon you by simple majority vote.
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uncommon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-10 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I believe in wealth redistribution within reason.
Every human being is a human being and regardless of their ability to earn income should be taken care of on a basic level by an enlightened society.

Socialism is not fascism.

People who work hard every day in this country often do not earn enough income to sustain themselves and their families.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-10 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. You assert "Socialism is not fascism" but both are derived from the writings of German philosopher
Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel.

Socialism has many variations so please define or identify the particular version you support.
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uncommon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-10 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. I think I have been pretty clear -
the original post is quite clear.

I believe that all human beings in a society should be treated with dignity and that it is a sin to hoard wealth or climb to the top on the backs of suffering people.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-10 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. You might think you've been clear but you have not stated who will own the means of production nor
how you will make all the decisions for production, distribution, pricing etc. essential for a modern economy.

Do you plan to pay ever citizen the same wage?

How do you plan to determine wages for each worker when workers are born with different abilities.
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uncommon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-10 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I think the workers should own the means of production.
I think every citizen should be guaranteed a certain standard of living, and then those who choose to try to work for more should be able to do so within reason.

Different abilities does not mean that either person is less human or less deserving of safety, good health, and comfort.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-10 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Understand, workers own the land & other means of production. How will you determine what crops to
grow, what products to produce, at what level of quality, and what price to charge for them?
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uncommon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Lol, why would this be any more of a challenge than it is now?
I think a democratic workplace can make these decisions just as easily as a board of directors or a CEO can.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Your answer is a simple majority will determine. For example, the people would vote to determine how
many acres of each crop to plant based on the following data.

1992 CROP YIELD FIGURES CALIFORNIA

CROP NAME POUNDS / ACRE
ALMONDS, SHELLED 1,150
PECANS, IN SHELL 962
PISTACHIOS 1,490
WALNUTS 2,760
APPLES 25,400
APRICOTS 11,260
AVOCADOS 3,680
CHERRIES, SWEET 6,660
DATES 9,420
FIGS 4,620
KIWI FRUIT 7,860
NECTARINES 16,080
OLIVES 4,320
PEACHES, ALL 31,400
PEARS, ALL 28,200
PEARS, BARTLETT 31,600
PLUMS 10,400
GRAPES 14,770
OATS 2,240
BARLEY 2,833
WINTER WHEAT 4,800
DURUM WHEAT 6,300


How would you cast your vote under your proposal to implement your agriculture plan for the above crops?
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uncommon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. What are you getting at?
I don't know jack about farming, hence I wouldn't be making decisions about crops. I assume you are trying to draw me into some sort of argument but I really have no idea what your game is at this point.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Your #16 "workers should own the means of production" and under socialism that
means all workers have a share in all means of production.

You said #20 "democratic workplace can make these decisions" and since agriculture is production I asked how you would vote in #21.

On the other hand you might mean the workers in each production unit, whatever that is, own the production unit but that is a far cry from socialism.

In the OP you asked "What is it about socialism that people don't like?" and I don't know how you define socialism so please explain what you mean by "socialism" as you used it in the OP.
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uncommon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-10 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. And no, I already said it would mean taking money from other people.
And I am okay with that. And at my income this would likely mean giving up a little to help others as I am lucky enough not to be living in poverty.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-10 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I see in your #9 "wealth redistribution". How do you propose to allocate a nation's assets? An equal
share to each citizen or do you have a better idea?
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uncommon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #12
23. See above where I discussed this. nt
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-10 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
17. Right on. This is so timely.
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uncommon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. It really is.
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