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Lance_Boyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-02-10 02:38 PM
Original message
New York Hotel Pioneers Birth Tourism
A New York hotel is staking its claim to have invented a new hospitality niche – birth tourism. The Marmara Manhattan offers “an exclusive package for new mothers that wish to give birth in the USA”, with the additional bonus of the newborn child gaining US citizenship.

The hotel, which is part of the Turkish hospitality chain, exploits the 14th amendment to the US constitution, which states that all children born on American soil “are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside”.

...

However the price is a cheap and easy one to pay for US citizenship. Many will eventually use the newborn - known as an “anchor baby” - as a stepping stone for the immigration of extended family.

http://www.breakingtravelnews.com/news/article/new-york-hotel-pioneers-birth-tourism/

Who knew there was a market for LUXURY anchors? At $35,000 this is not an option for most would-be illegals, but it goes to show that the 14th *is* abused, and maybe one is not automatically a vile Republican racist shitbag for recognizing that fact.

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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-02-10 02:42 PM
Original message
Great idea!
Go to a country that is 37th in health care quality, but #1 in health care price to have a baby. What could go wrong with that?
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ParkieDem Donating Member (417 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-02-10 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. No doubt it is abused.
Personally, I would not be opposed to repealing this portion of the 14th Amendment. I believe citizenship involves more than just being born here. We are virtually the only country in the world that has "birthright citizenship," it is a very uncommon practice globally.
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UndertheOcean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-02-10 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Countries that observe "jus soli" are : (To show that you don't know anything about this subject)
Antigua and Barbuda
Argentina
Barbados
Belize
Bolivia
Brazil
Canada
Chile (children of transient foreigners or of foreign diplomats on assignment in Chile only upon request)
Colombia
Dominica
Dominican Republic
Ecuador
El Salvador
Fiji
Grenada
Guatemala
Guyana
Honduras
Jamaica
Lesotho
Malaysia
Mexico
Nicaragua
Pakistan
Panama
Paraguay
Peru
Saint Christopher and Nevis
Saint Lucia
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
Trinidad and Tobago
United States
Uruguay
Venezuela
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Lance_Boyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-02-10 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. birthright citizenship is a relic of its time, and maybe ought to go or be modified
It was included in the 14th Amendment as a means to ensure that former slaves were recognized as citizens.

Rather than eliminating it altogether, I might favor amending it to require that at least one parent be a US citizen in order to be able to convey "birthright citizenship" to their offspring. As it stands now this feature of #14 encourages people to commit a crime (yes, DU - illegal crossing is a *crime*, not a civil infraction) in hopes of benefiting in the future through the anchor's citizenship.

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The Northerner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-02-10 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. +1
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-02-10 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. I support limited birthright citizenship - the only qualifier other than being born here
would be that the mother be in the US LEGALLY.
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-02-10 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Uncommon practice
Except for Antigua and Barbuda, Argentina, Barbados, Belize, Bolivia, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Dominica, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Fiji, Grenada, Guatemala, Guyana, Honduras, Jamaica, Lesotho, Malaysia, Mexico, Nicaragua, Pakistan, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, St. Christopher and Nevis, St. Lucia, St. Vincent and the Grenadines, Trinidad and Tobago, Uruguay and Venezuela.

I could do a few more seconds' research and find some more, I guess. But that list takes in most countries in the Western Hemisphere, where the U.S. is located.
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Lance_Boyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-02-10 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Yeah, wiki up the list of countries where this is not the practice.
See how it dwarfs the list you just wikied. Then head to dictionary.com and look up the meaning of the word "uncommon." :eyes:

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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-02-10 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Copy and paste skills elude you?
Still, jus soli seems pretty common in the Western Hemisphere, what with our two neighboring countries, several Carribbean states and most of Central and South America observing that particular law.

But I know the impetus behind repealing the 14th Amendment isn't racist, because all the white people yammering about it say they aren't racist.
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UndertheOcean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-02-10 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. " but it goes to show that the 14th *is* abused" : Harmless victimless abuse , no need to twist
your panties about it .

And many abuse food stamps and welfare checks , again : so what.
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-02-10 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. How about 'taken advantage of' instead of 'abused?'
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UndertheOcean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-02-10 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. again : So frickin what ?
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Lance_Boyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-02-10 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Damn straight! It's a GOOD THING to encourage pregnant women to make an illegal border crossing.
I'm sure the coyotes ((sub)human and canine alike) tend very scrupulously to these women's needs and well-being. :eyes:

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UndertheOcean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-02-10 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. And I am sure your concern is all about the women .
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Lance_Boyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-02-10 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. So you have no concern for the well-being of those encourage by #14 to make an illegal crossing
while pregnant. Gotcha.

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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-02-10 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. That's NOT what this OP is about, is it? Its fancy hotels!!!
Edited on Mon Aug-02-10 03:05 PM by elleng
“What we offer is simply a one-bedroom suite accommodation for $5,100, plus taxes, for a month, with airport transfer, baby cradle and a gift set for the mother.” There are also medical fees of about £20,500.

This is NOT indigent women and coyotes, ya know.
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Lance_Boyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-02-10 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. the hotel's wealthy client and the pregnant illegal crosser exploit the same loophole
It's a loophole that perhaps ought to be re-examined now that its intended purpose has been outlived by several generations.

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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-02-10 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I don't agree 'exploit' or 'loophole.' Sorry.
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Lance_Boyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-02-10 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. What do you believe was the intent of including birthright citizenship in the 14th?
Because it is pretty much universally accepted that it was intended to ensure that former slaves were recognized as citizens. This is obviously no longer necessary.

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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-02-10 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. Who gives a shit what the intent was? Those without racist, xenophobic sticks up their butts
a.k.a. progressives and other intelligent people generally realize that there is no harm, in fact a value added to this country by infant citizens who serve as centerpoints for new (eventually) American families.

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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-02-10 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. Restored the longstanding English common law doctrine of jus solis.
'The Citizenship Clause was no legal in­novation. It simply restored the longstand­ing English common law doctrine of jus soli, or citizenship by place of birth. Although the doctrine was initially embraced in early American jurisprudence, the U.S. Supreme Court abrogated jus soli in its infamous Dred Scott decision, denying birthright citizen­ship to the descendents of slaves. Congress approved the Citizenship Clause to overrule Dred Scott and elevate jus soli to the status of constitutional law.

When the House of Representatives first approved the measure that would eventually become the Fourteenth Amendment, it did not contain language guaranteeing citizen­ship. On May 29, 1866, six days after the Senate began its deliberations, Senator Ja­cob Howard (R-MI) proposed language pertaining to citizenship. Following ex­tended debate the next day, the Senate ad­opted Howard’s language. Both chambers subsequently approved the constitutional amendment without further discussion of birthright citizenship, so the May 30, 1866 Senate debate offers the best insight into Congressional intent.

Senator Howard’s brief introduction of his amendment confirmed its plain mean­ing:

Mr. HOWARD. … This amendment which I have offered is simply declara­tory of what I regard as the law of the land already, that every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Gov­ernment of the United States, but will in­clude every other class of persons.”

***

The wisdom of the Reconstruction framers in placing the conditions of citizenship above majority action was confirmed when exclusionary immigration laws were passed just after the Fourteenth Amendment was ratified. Had the racial animus of the Chinese Exclusion Laws, passed in the 1880s, been incorporated into the text of the Citizenship Clause, the amendment would be a source of shame rather than an emblem of equality.

The current, inflammatory invocation of “anchor babies” by opponents of birthright citizenship further confirms the good judgment of the framers of the Fourteenth Amendment in placing the question of citizenship beyond “consent” of the majority. Indeed, claims of which immigrants were “worthier” of citizenship than others were present at the time the Citizenship Clause was enacted. In his veto message, President Johnson objected to the discrimination made between “worthy” foreigners, who must go through certain naturalization procedures because of their “foreign birth,” and conferring citizenship on “all persons of African descent, born within the extended limits of the United States,” who Johnson did not feel were as prepared for the duties of a citizen. The drafters of the Fourteenth Amendment rejected such distinctions, and instead provided us with a Constitution that guarantees equality and grants citizenship to all persons born in the United States, regardless of color, creed, or origin. The text of the Citizenship Clause grants automatic citizenship to all persons born on U.S. soil so that minority groups do not need to win a popular vote to enjoy the privileges and immunities of U.S. citizenship—they simply have to be born here. . .

the idea that the conditions of citizenship could be modified by the “consent” of Congress, as advocated by those who believe Congress may legislate away birthright citizenship for children born to undocumented immigrants, would have been anathema to the Reconstruction framers. Rather than leaving it to the “caprice of Congress,” the framers of the Fourteenth Amendment intended to establish “a constitutional right that cannot be wrested from any class of citizens, or from the citizens of any State by mere legislation.” The history of the Citizenship Clause demonstrates that the Reconstruction framers constitutionalized the conditions sufficient for citizenship precisely to enshrine automatic citizenship regardless of whether native-born children were members of a disfavored minority group or a welcomed band of ancestors. . .

***

Attempts to amend, abolish, or similarly undermine the Fourteenth Amendment’s provision regarding birthright citizenship should be rejected by lawmakers for at least five reasons:

It would be the first time since the infamous “three-fifths clause” that the Constitution has been written to restrict civil rights rather than expand them.

Altering this provision, especially through legislation, would encourage further subjecting of individuals’ rights to the political process, opening a Pandora’s Box that could significantly redefine the rights of current citizens. This would undermine the founders’ intent in creating the Bill of Rights, which places fundamental rights beyond the boundaries of simple majority rule in order to protect them against a sometimes-fickle public opinion.

It would strengthen the hand of nativist and racist organizations.

It would create a two-tiered society consisting of those with full access to the political, economic, and social institutions of the nation and those permanently excluded from them. American-born children of undocumented immigrants, for example, would be unable to obtain a legal job, a driver’s license, or financial aid for college. The result would be a class of stateless peoples—those with no legal U.S. residency or hope of legal residency, yet with no real ties to any other nation. Such people would be forced to work in underground economies and live in unstable, clandestine conditions, a situation that encourages crime and discourages becoming part of the broader American culture. It remains unclear what exactly would happen to such stateless persons if the United States were to catch and deport them, as no other country would be legally obliged to accept them.

Finally, there is no reason to believe that eliminating birthright citizenship would be effective in stopping or slowing illegal immigration; for there is little evidence that attaining citizenship is the main incentive for immigration to the United States. Most undocumented workers come to the United States in search of economic opportunity, with the intention of returning home. “Anchor babies” are a fictitious problem that has little actual impact on immigration trends today.


***

Eliminating the birthright citizenship rule would affect not only the citizenship of the children of unauthorized immigrants, but the citizenship of the children of more than three hundred million American citizens. After the elimination of birthright citizenship, all American parents would, going forward, have to prove the citizenship of their children through a cumbersome bureaucratic process. The United States has no national registry of its citizens, and most Americans today rely on the birthright citizenship rule to establish their citizenship. Documents evidencing birth in America are created by thousands of state and local governmental entities as well as the Department of Homeland Security and the Department of State. In Barack Obama’s case, for example, his birthright citizenship is proved by means of a birth certificate issued by the State of Hawaii and showing his birth in Honolulu; he subsequently obtained a U.S. passport. Many Americans, however, do not routinely obtain any Federal governmental documents—such as a passport—confirming their citizenship status. A survey by the Brennan Center at New York University found that more than 13 million American adults cannot easily produce documentation proving their citizenship. At least birthright citizenship can be proved by producing a valid U.S. birth certificate, something that most birthright citizens can obtain without too much expense or difficulty if they are forced to do so.

If birthright citizenship were eliminated, however, those born in the United States would lose their access to easy proof of citizenship. Instead, they would find it necessary to turn to the exceptionally complex U.S. rules for citizenship by blood (the majority would be unable to qualify for the immigrant visas necessary as a prerequisite for citizenship by naturalization). Yet the rules for derivative citizenship are so complicated that it can take an experienced immigration attorney more than an hour to determine whether someone is a U.S. citizen by derivation. The lawyer must inquire about grandparents as well as parents, about marriage dates and the birth dates of ancestors, about the place of birth, and about the time that one’s parents or grandparents spent in the United States prior to one’s birth.'

http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/perspectives/made-america-myths-facts-about-birthright-citizenship








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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-02-10 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Oh, that's just more o' them pesky facts!
Obviously, you have no compassion for those millions of late-term pregnant women forced to make the arduous trek over hill and dale and gully to make it across the border. :sarcasm:
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-02-10 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. Think about Japanese exclusion during WWII. 'Obviously no longer necessary?'
Edited on Mon Aug-02-10 06:38 PM by elleng
Not so much.
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-02-10 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
18. Groan
More fear-mongering meat for the xenophobes.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-02-10 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
19. As if on fucking cue. What the fuck, does the GOBP pay these people!?
Edited on Mon Aug-02-10 03:19 PM by xultar
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Sen. Walter Sobchak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-02-10 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
21. This has gone on for decades
It was especially popular among South Africans, South Vietnamese, Taiwanese and Filipinos, now it is the Chinese who are really getting into it. There are private clinics in Southern California just to cater to the Chinese market.
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-02-10 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
26. That hotel must really be hurting
it's right on top of the Second Avenue Subway construction, which has been going on for a year, well into the night. And it's far up on the Upper East Side (94th and 2nd), so its market is for long-term stays, not tourists. So I guess this is what their marketing geniuses came up with.
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