Zing! (Toon on Volt)

[n2doc]

[Romulox]

1. Unrec. The Volt is an excellent automobile, and the analogy is therefore bogus.

By all means, enjoy your "Nissan Rogues" and "Hyundai Elantras". :hi:

[n2doc]

2. Way to miss the point! n/t

[Romulox]

3. There's *never* only one point.

The cartoon seeks to defend the President by slurring the Volt. It would be OK, but it's not accurate. :hi:

[Soylent Brice]

5. i took it as

they're slamming Rushbo for having an idiotic and narrow-minded viewpoint of technology, like most did about cell phones when they first came out.

:shrug:

[NV Whino]

6. I think I have to repeat

Way to miss the point!

How on earth do you interpret that as supporting Obama by slurring the Volt?

[Gold Metal Flake]

8. Way to miss the point twice!

But keep it up! :rofl:




:hi:





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:hi:

[Atman]

7. Besides totally missing the point of the cartoon...

What the hell is wrong with a Hyundai Elantra? It's a great car that gets 32 miles per gallon and is recommended by Consumer Reports. It may not be electric, but neither are all of the other cars you chose not to mention. As usual, Romulox, I don't get you.

[Romulox]

9. It's made in Korea.

:hi:

[Atman]

15. No, it's made in Alabama.

:hi:

[Romulox]

18. "Assembled"

Take it up with the FTC if you don't like it--but "made in the USA" is a legally regulated term. :hi:

[SidDithers]

26. By Union labour...nt

:hi:

Sid

[Romulox]

29. Hyundai ads claim their cars are "built" (not "made"!) by "sons of the soil"

in Alabammy.

Now who's lying, you or them? Both? :rofl:

[SidDithers]

34. Hyundais made in Korea are made by union labour...

that's my only point. Those made in Alabama, obviously, aren't.

Much like GM cars made in the US and Canada are union-made. GM cars made in Mexico aren't.

[Romulox]

44. So...you care deeply about Union Labor, except as to American workers.

You're schtick isn't terribly internally consistent. You are a neoliberal, which is why you like Korean unions, but are a critic of domestic unions.

[SidDithers]

47. To me, American workers and Korean workers are both foreign workers...

Which is why I find your America first, last and only "schtick" so amusing.

You cloak your nationalism behind Labour, but it's still nationalism.

Sid

edit spelling

[Romulox]

50. Which is why it makes no sense why you support Union labor in one country, but not the other.

Fact is, you putative "support" of the Korean union (which you couldn't name to save your life without the aid of the Googles) is as phoney as the rest of your schtick.

Now I suggest you RETREAT to General Discussion: Presidential where you can trade platitudes with Prosense and LOLzocco without any chance of anyone puncturing your flimsy rhetoric with anything resembling logic or a fact.

[SidDithers]

52. I support the labour unions of all countries...

Whether it be the UAW, CAW or Hyundai Motor Workers.

Truly hilarious, tho, that you deride me for supporting Union labour in one country but not another. Pot meet kettle. :rofl:

Sid

[Romulox]

53. Then you MUST demand that people not buy "built in USA" Hondas, Toyotas, and Hyundais

None of these are "built" by union labor.

Logical consistency: how does that work?

[SidDithers]

55. I don't DEMAND that people do anything...

they're free to make their own choices. Me? I've chosen to buy union-made vehicles when possible. The only non-union made vehicle I've ever owned was a 1998 Toyota Corolla, that I bought used, and drove a bit less than 2 years. I've owned union-made Dodges, Hyundais, a Ford and a Mercury. My next vehicle, once my 2005 Caravan SXT (made by union labour in Windsor) dies, will be a Ford Edge, union-made by Ford Motor Company of Canada about 5 km from where I live.

Again. It's your logical inconsistency that I find enduringly entertaining. Your support for unions stops at your border.

Sid

[Romulox]

57. I'm not playing games with you--you consistently advocate for Neoliberal economic policies

I couldn't care about your biography. :hi:

[lame54]

11. You may want to re-think that response...

in the meantime I'll balance out your un-rec

[Towlie]

13. But it's not specifically about the Volt, it's about "electric car technology."

[Vickers]

19. WHOOOOOOOOSH!!!!! n/t

[blondeatlast]

21. WTMTP x 3. nt

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

22. The heavy-ass cellphone was good enough for its time, too.

Don't you think there's gonna be progress?

[Romulox]

24. I think "it's a shitty car, but it'll get better" is accepting Limbaugh's framing of the issue.

:hi:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

Limbaugh makes two points: (1) it's crappy now; (2) it's not going to get better.

He's wrong in both counts, but the cartoon focuses on (2) only.

People are way, WAY too sensitive sometimes. Jeez.

[Romulox]

32. Right, but conceding point 1 is accepting his frame.

It's called "triangulating" when our politicians do it, and it is disastrous.

"People are way, WAY too sensitive sometimes. "

Disagreeing with something is not the same thing as taking offense at it. I am just pointing out that it's a poor cartoon, in my estimation, and the reasons I find it so.

[Statistical]

38. The volt isn't "Crappy" anymore than the 2lb cellphone was in 1980.

However the 2lb cellphone didn't make sense for everyone. Actually it only made sense for a minority of people. However that adoption paved the was for mass adoption in following product generation. The first PC weren't crappy but they sure as hell werent for everyone. Those early adopters paved the way for generations of improving products. That was the point of the cartoon.

The Volt is much the same way. It does have some serious limiations. One would have to be blind to not see that. However it is "good enough" to sell out the production line. The 2012 Volt will be better and hopefully lower price and it will be good enough to sell out the 50,000 unit product line.

By the 4th generation the Volt will make sense for a lot more people. By the 7th generation and a public support via off peak pricing of electricity, lower cost batteries, public charging centers, etc it will make sense for most people.

Eventually much like cellphone had killed landline vehicles like the Volt will be the norm.

IF the Volt was as cheap as it ever is going to be and as functional as it ever is going to be that would be disappointing. The point is that it will get better.

Does the Volt make sense for everyone? Of course not. Is that a reason to blast the vehicle for it's shortcomings (like Rush did)? Only if you also think the Commodore 64 and 2 lb cellphone were stupid products as well.

[Romulox]

51. The analogy is bogus, not the least which because the Volt

has equivalent (if not arguably superior) characteristics to existing cars. If the Volt was a Hummer stuffed with Li-Pos, then situation would be much more comparable.

"IF the Volt was as cheap as it ever is going to be and as functional as it ever is going to be that would be disappointing. The point is that it will get better."

Pure-bread strawman. I am referring to a comparison as between the Volt and other existing cars on the road (which also must presumably improve over time, regardless of their powerplants.)

[LanternWaste]

54. a wonderful addition to the Hoover Dam workforce.

You appear to be quite an expert at digging an absurd hole ever deeper and deeper. I imagine you would have been a wonderful addition to the Hoover Dam workforce.

It's got to be performance art on your part-- a cross between Laurie Anderson and John Cleese.

[Romulox]

56. One thing I learned a while ago--don't lead with your chin.

It's pathetic for you to attempt to interject yourself into this subthread. It's obvious that when you act this way, you are doing so from a place of being wounded (presumably by me in a previous encounter.) :hi:

[Gold Metal Flake]

31. Triple-down!

:hi:




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:hi:

[Statistical]

30. Also if nobody bought the first model there would have been

the sucession of better, faster, lighter ones.

Nobody (not even anyone in GM) thinks the Volt is the be all end all of EV technology. However it is a starting point for GM.

I have no doubt that the 2015 model of the Volt will not only be cheaper but have a longer EV range, and even more efficient generator.
Win-win-win.

[SidDithers]

25. Wooosh...nt

Sid

[MedicalAdmin]

35. Hey Robin Hood - put on your glasses.

Turn around. The target is the other direction. Stop shooting at the crowd.



It's a riff on Rush's comments about "government" motors and the volt.

[Romulox]

46. I think you mean "William Tell". Robin Hood doesn't make sense here. nt

[Matariki]

41. doh!

:dunce:

[DirkGently]

4. Excellent. And yes, it's a fair analogy.

[lame54]

10. .

[brendan120678]

12. So, is the cartoon implying...

that the Volt is a crappy car, but give it about 20 years and it'll be better?

[MrScorpio]

14. It's a dig on Limpbags

As if the limitations of a 1st gen car are going to be around forever.

[Gold Metal Flake]

16. FFS

The cartoon is implying that technology advances constantly and electric cars will become better and cheaper in time just like radio ($400 battery sets in 1922 to $10 shirt pocket transistor radios in 1960), computers ($5000 "portables" in 1980 to $300 laptops in 2010) and televisions ($3000 50" HDTV in 1998 to $800 50" HDTV in 2010). The Volt is a great product. In a few years there will be better and cheaper such cars. Electric and hybrids will become ubiquitous. They are not anomalies as Limbaugh insists they are.

[Sal Minella]

37. Nicely done. n/t

[n2doc]

17. All "electrics" and hybrids are imperfect

They generally cost too much and don't go far enough on electricity. But they will get better, especially with actual products on the market to drive innovation. If you think spending 40K on a car that can only go 40 miles on pure electric power, or even 26K for one that can go 100 miles (but no further) is the best we can ever hope for, you are the pessimist.

[Romulox]

20. Ayep. nt

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

23. Only crappy in comparison with cars that don't exist yet.

Was the Apple II crappy? The Ford Model T?

[DirkGently]

33. It's implying that's it's silly to condemn modern electric cars

on the basis of the shortcomings of early generation examples like the Volt. Reading it as an attack on the Volt is beyond a stretch.

Likewise, though, there is no basis to say the Volt is a great product at this point. They're not even on the road.

As in all things, it doesn't serve anyone to pretend that an early, primitive, or poor example of something that could, with more work, be great, is already great. .

[txlibdem]

36. It calls out the hypocrisy of the right

Rush does not use a cell phone that weighs 2 pounds. He uses one that works far better, much clearer communications, far longer battery life, far smaller, lighter and "prettier." In short, the Rushbo is an idiot who doesn't practice what he preaches (and never has).

Similarly, Limpbooger doesn't drive a low-tech car. He drives a $500,000 Maybach. It's a gas guzzler but it's a very high tech car. So once again he shows his hypocrisy.

Here's a link to Rush's car:
http://www.leftlanenews.com/maybach-57s.html

[Statistical]

39. About as "crappy" as the Ford Model T. n/t

[SidDithers]

27. K&R...

thanks for posting.

Sid

[Uncle Joe]

28. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, n2doc.

[J-Lo Biafra]

40. I'm writing a thesis titled "Applying Utter Humorlessness to Political Cartoon Analysis."

There are some great subjects in this thread.

[Romulox]

45. Like all puns, your name isn't funny.

Puns are the second lowest form of humor, right after prop comedy. :hi:

[benld74]

42. GM is doing their electric car the same way they approached increasing MPG

with tiny baby steps,,,,,

[Statistical]

43. Actually I would say Honda, Ford, and Toyota took baby steps in the hybrid.

A parallel hybrid is a no risk approach. Take an engine make it slighly smaller then attach a small "booster" electric motor. Slap on a tiny battery pack, and some regenerative braking. Add some tweaks like cutting motor when idling. Tada a parallel hybrid.

Low risk = low payoff. There is a limit to how efficient you can make it.

Chevy Volt uses more aggressive design. Make the car run 100% on electric power. No internal combustion engine. Bad news battery packs are expensive. The 240 mile battery pack in Tesla Roadster in $36,000. No motor, no car, just batteries = $36,000. Someday they will be cheaper but not today. So each mile of range cost roughly $150.

Now 90% of the time people drive a short distance so having 200, 240, 300 mile range is "wasted". So put a small battery pack (but 10x that of a parallel hybrid) in the vehicle. That saves $30,000 but it can only go 40 miles. Now extend the range with a high efficiency generator (50mpg) and small gas tank. Best of both worlds.

The Nissan leaf is a baby step IMHO. 100 miles = 50 miles roundtrip however the range isn't guaranteed. Depending on temp, AC/heating, driving style, and traffic that range can be as little as 60 miles = 30 miles round trip. That is a baby step.

In a couple generations battery tech will get cheaper but right now it is prohibitively expensive.

[Fumesucker]

48. The 240 mile range on the Tesla is subject to the same caveats..

Particularly if you actually drive the car as the performance vehicle it truly is you're not going to get anything like 240 miles range.

Have the lights, the AC and the thumping stereo going while in stop and go bumper to bumper traffic and you're going to cut the range even more.

The Tesla is an awesome piece of machinery but if you "drive it like you stole it" you're not going to see 240 miles out of a charge. I've been flying electric R/C planes for about a decade now and you can get fantastic performance or long flight times but not both at the same time. There are electric R/C planes that will go 175 mph but it's only for a few minutes.

[Statistical]

49. Agreed. Mileage will vary.

However when you start from a baseline of 240 you got more watts to play with.

I think the Leaf pushes that limit too far. When you start with a 100 mile theoretical and real world can be as little as 60 miles I wouldn't be comfortable going somewhere 30 miles away.