If a Muslim community center is a "mosque"... then YMCAs are christian churches

[scheming daemons]

But that's beside the point.


This muslim congregation has owned that property for 27 years. They have every right in the world to build any building that they want, as long as it conforms with local zoning restrictions.


If these teabaggers were as "libertarian" as they claim to be, they would be 100% in favor of leaving this congregation alone.

They're only libertarian when it comes to taxes. In every other instance, they don't want "freedom from government tyranny". They actively CALL for it!

[dkf]

1. They owned a Burlington coat factory building? How odd.

You sure about that?

[aquart]

2. Well, I apologize. I thought they bought it in the fire sale.

27 years. And now they decide this is a good time for a ......................what is it, again?

My YMCA has members of all races and religions. Is that the plan here? Will we be welcome to pray to our gods in the mosque portion of the building? Women, too?

As for right. Someone thought it a poor analogy to say that Newt Gingrich had the right to divorce his wife. He certainly had her a number of years. It was his right. He had the right to tell her about it anyplace and anytime he chose. He had the right to do it. Can you dispute that? I can't. He chose to exercise his right in her hospital room where she was being treated for cancer. HE HAD THE RIGHT.

Sometimes the right isn't right. It isn't right now.

[Hugabear]

3. When would the time be right?

Seriously, how long should they have to wait to build their community center?

By the way, you are aware that it will be open to everyone, are you not?

[Mariana]

28. Good luck getting an answer to that very simple, clear question. nt.

[Bugenhagen]

5. I don't understand your post.

What it is is a community center with a mosque, at least as far as I understand.

As far as your other question, I think they don't make a lot of sense. Is it your contention that anyone of any religion should be able to do whatever they want in any church? Do the Lutherans let the Mormons run rampant? How do the Baptists feel about the Greek Orthodoxist coming in with all that white smoke and stuff? What place of worship lets the Scientologist do their thing (whatever that is)?

Or do you mean that Americans who follow Islam lost their rights after 9-11?

What is this drivel about Newt?


Baffled,
Bugenhagen

[Canuckistanian]

16. WTF? "Do the Lutherans let the Mormons run rampant? "

I wasn't aware that churches "allowed" or "banned" practices of other churches.

Can you give an example?

[bring_em_home_bush]

7. wow it's not even making sense anymore

It doesn't feel like the right time to YOU. And a bunch of teabaggers and fundies. Who cares?

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[spanone]

21. Our Mission - "Improving Muslim-West Relations"

Our Mission: Cordoba Initiative aims to achieve a tipping point in Muslim-West relations within the next decade, bringing back the atmosphere of interfaith tolerance and respect that we have longed for since Muslims, Christians and Jews lived together in harmony and prosperity eight hundred years ago.

Solving some of the most intractable conflicts in the world today requires innovative strategies for cross-cultural engagement. Cordoba Initiative tackles this mandate with forethought, expertise and the ability to leverage contacts in influential positions within the Muslim World and the West. Thinking outside the box about international and intercultural conflict resolution also means thinking introspectively about each side's place within its own historical narrative with a view to devising internally oriented solutions.http://www.cordobainitiative.org/?q=content/our-mission

[Yupster]

4. Thought I read that the YMCA just changed it's name

Now it's just The Y.

Took the christian right out of it.

[AlabamaLibrul]

6. Not quite.

[dkf]

8. I never understood why that was in there.

From what I can see it is pretty much a gym?

[bring_em_home_bush]

9. The Young Men's Christian Association was founded in 1844

maybe you could find out more about its, oh, I don't know, history, or something. But how to do it? Such a mystery.

[MajorChode]

11. They used to be sort of a hostel type place as well

Basically they were a place to go hang out for a while or a few days and do "healthy" things for your mind and body. The idea being that if men were hanging out there they wouldn't be in a whore house.

[Yupster]

12. It is today

It used to be a Christian mission where men could go to get free food and a place to live for a short time.

There were usually pretty strict rules. Before getting a free meal a man had to chop a bit of wood. A woman had to darn a pair of socks. The theory was to show people that however low their current state, they could still help others. To stay overnight you had to participate in their religious programs.

The group started transforming itself during the New Deal and was pretty much a gym by the 60's.

Another interesting thing is that the rules were that boys and men swam naked which is probably why the YMCA was for men only. The women had their own YWCA's, where women and girls did not swim naked.

[Beartracks]

18. I recall reading that same-sex schools did that, too.

I don't remember if it was here at DU or somewhere else... But I read someone's account of growing up back in the post-WWII years, I believe it was. I don't remember, however, if the author was recounting his years at an all-boy's school, or at a school where the physical education classes were merely segregated by gender. Anyhow, the boys would swim naked together, but the girls would not. I think it was just a traditional thing back then, and no one thought anything of it.

----------------------------------

[Yupster]

27. The thinking was that

the filters would get clogged with the fabric of the swimsuits, though it was never explained why girls suits would be any less clogging than boys.

I grew up in the girls must wear swim caps because their hair would clog the filters, though boys didn't need them regardless of their hair length.

[MajorChode]

10. The center does include plans for a mosque

I could give a shit either way if they build it or not, but from what I have seen they do plan to put a mosque inside. While that certainly doesn't make the whole structure a mosque, it does mean there will be a mosque contained within the building.

The libertarian slant of the teabagger movement is nothing more than a Trojan horse for their racist and other various bigotries, but even if they were truly libertarians, I'm not sure that would be an improvement. From what I can tell, they aren't libertarian when it comes to taxes either. Ask any teabagger which government service(s) they would personally give up, or where we should start cutting the military and I doubt you'll get any sort of coherent answer.

[backscatter712]

22. It calls for a prayer room.

A prayer room is not equal to a full-service mosque.

In Muslim areas, people pray either three or five times per day, depending on the particular flavor of Islam, so prayer rooms are available in virtually every public place.

One of my old workplaces had a few Muslim workers, so it set aside a room as a dual-use prayer room/quiet room for those who wanted to use it. Nobody every thought it to be a big deal.

[MajorChode]

23. A "prayer room" that serves 2,000 people?

You're kidding, right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cordoba_House

[backscatter712]

24. Fair point, but it's still within their rights to build it.

This is America, we have freedom of religion, the owners of that bit of real-estate can damned well build a mosque there if they want to.

[MajorChode]

25. I agree completely

I say let them build it, but I just can't go along with saying it isn't a mosque or at least a mosque will be contained within as part of the larger plan.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

14. The center apparently contains a room for prayer.

A "muslim chapel" as the cable news called it. Or a "mosque" by any reasonable definition, IMO.

All the arguments about "it's not a mosque, it's not at ground zero" seem to be mostly about avoiding confrontation with bigots.

[Hugabear]

15. So any place that has a Muslim prayer room is automatically a mosque?

Personally, it wouldn't bother me if they built a mosque there. But that's not what this is.

[BolivarianHero]

17. Why do I care?

There are dozens of Muslim places of worship where I live...

And nobody stops me from drinking, gambling, or violating Islamic mores about human sexual activity. :)

[Hugabear]

19. Because the right-wing is using language deliberately designed to stir up opposition

People like Glen Beck, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, and all those other hatemongers scream "THEY'RE BUILDING A MOSQUE AT GROUND ZERO", knowing that the term "mosque" brings up certain emotions in many of their followers. And now they've gotten the mainstream media following their cue. As a result, they've whipped up a fresh round of Islamophobia, with organizations determined to deny a religious group the right to build on their own property. Sadly, they've even gotten some people here on DU following their cue.

It's really no different than when the hatemongers use carefully selected verbiage (that shouldn't be offensive on their own merits) to whip up anti-homosexual sentiment, or hatred towards Hispanic immigrants.

[BolivarianHero]

20. I read the Ottawa Sun just to laugh at how ludicrous the rhetoric is...

I have more theological and philosophical issues with Islam that most of the wingnuts who attack Muslims and I can see through their bullshit like it's a fucking glass of water.

[MajorChode]

26. Faux news falsely reported that they were going to open it on the anniversary of 9/11.

http://mediamatters.org/research/201007200004

[oberliner]

29. They did not own that property for 27 years

I think you are confusing things:

It is led by Faisal Abdul Rauf, an imam who has run a mosque nearby in lower Manhattan for 27 years.