Logic dictates that progressive policy needs a vigorous Capitalist system, right?

[GSLevel9]

So I've been thinking about it...

In the search for social justice... the quest for economic equality...

The transferral of wealth is necessary. Problem is... some seem to feel that transfer can exist one-dimensionally, just withdraw cash from wealthy folks checkbooks. There aren't ENOUGH wealth people.

So... a good progressive government needs money. It needs money to fund programs and social programs to benefit all Americans. How does it get the money? Taxation of course.

The funds brought in taxes are a portion of people's "excess" money, right? So if that's true... don't we ALL need high earners to KEEP earning a lot of $$?

Why doesn't the government do EVERYTHING it can do to HELP industry and corporate America make TONS of money so they can be properly taxed to fund the governments social obligations?

In addition... look at your neighbors. Let's look at the landscaper, the accountant, the bank teller, the swimming pool contractor and the waitress.

If the accountant gets the swimming pool contractor to come in for tax preparation and payroll and bookkeeping work, the acccountant has more money in th ebank.

The accountant has enough money to fix up the front yard at his house so he hires the landscaper to plant flowers and shrubs.

The landscaper takes his family out to dinner that night and leaves a better tip for the waitress.

More people are making more money and the local bank hires a new teller to help with customer service.

So why do SOME declare a WAR on prosperity? Prosperity is the fuel for social and economic justice IF the right administration is there to spend the money responsibly and not on wars and bombs and billion dollar airplanes...

care to discuss?

I'll throw out a possible new tax law...

Tax wealthy earners on their SAVINGS investments. Encourage people to spend money. Rich guy finishes the year with a million in earned income in the bank, he pays 50% tax... rich guy buys 1,000,000 worth of home remodel, construction, swimming pool, carpets, windows, doors... he pays 30% tax on those earnings instead. MAKE people spend cash...

[DJ13]

1. You've listened to Robert Rubin too long

[JVS]

2. No. The capitalist system is antithetical to justice.

[GSLevel9]

3. let's talk about it...

How do you fund economic justice with no cash? Print the money?

[JVS]

7. Production and consumption happened before the capitalist system and can happen after it.

You might as well ask me how society can function without a king, princes, counts, dukes, and knights.

[blindpig]

4. Capitalism is antithetical to 'progress'

If by progress one mean the improvement of the human condition.

[zipplewrath]

5. Control of wealth

Our taxation is based predominately upon income, although there are a fair amount of consumption taxes (gas, alcohol, tobacco, etc.). Prosperity also tends to produce "pooled" wealth, or "stored" wealth, which tends to keep it from taxation. Prosperity that is founded upon wealth is rarely taxed heavily. That which is based upon wage income is. The equation that is needed is that wealth is not accumulated by avoiding taxation, but what is left over after the obligations are paid.

Much wealth often comes from the explotation of resources, whether oil, land, or labor. We need to ensure that the communities share of those resources are not wasted, and that the community receives compensation for their use. Wealth cannot be allowed to be hoarded and stored because it is witheld from the community that deserves access to it.

And we do that with minimum wage laws, capital gains taxes, royalty fees on land use and resource mining, and other manners of access to wealth. That isn't a "war on prosperity", it is an attempt to garner the communities share of created, or maintained, wealth. Prosperity occurs AFTER the community has been cared for.

[GSLevel9]

9. good points...

but if you want "Hopeville, Any State, USA" to prosper... they need a tax base. They need shopping malls, auto dealerships, home subdivisions and manufacturing.

So... IMHO, wealth production should be nurtured... then taxed.

And please see my first post about taxing "stashed cash"...

[county worker]

6. It takes money to do the things we want the government to do.

The government revenue comes chiefly from taxes.

From a lot of the posts here at DU I think a lot of people don't understand that money has to be earned before it can be taxed. That's why it's called income tax. It is tax on income. There is also a property tax and taxes on consumption of certain items.

When ever I see a post calling for free education or free housing etc. I like to reply that nothing is free. Someone has to put out the effort to earn the income that is taxed. Someone had to put in the sweat equity to learn the skills to provide the services that are so easily demanded for free.

No there is nothing free and yes we need the capitalists to earn the revenue that is taxed.

Also social justice does not mean economic equality. It means equal access to opportunity.

[GSLevel9]

11. outstanding reply, thank you. nt

[ThomWV]

8. Actually you have to give up some of the independence of capitalism to progress

Because if each man is an island onto himself, then the islands go to war for limited resources. But when we progress to come to civil agreement we give up some of that singular individualism in favor of an improved society. So Capitalism and progressive social agendas are not at odds with each other, but they are on opposite ends of the balance scale. Do you know the correct definition of the word complement? It refers to the part of something which is not the part that you have in hand, like the Yin and the Yang fitting together to make a perfect circle. The capitalism and a progressive agenda are like that, they work together for perfect harmony, with each having their place and neither dominating.

[JVS]

12. "The capitalism and a progressive agenda are like that, they work together for perfect harmony,...

with each having their place and neither dominating."

How can you type such a thing? What a joke! Capitalism has been strangling the progressive agenda for over 30 years. Perfect harmony my butt!

[GSLevel9]

13. that's the whole problem.

A progressive agenda is expensive. To pay for that agenda you need a vigorous economy generating a LOT of income AND CONSUMPTION.

[GSLevel9]

14. another example...

an area is very successful... malls move in, businesses come, subdivisions pop up.

Property taxes fund the building of high quality new schools with a fair number fo teachers and modern learning equipment. Businesses pledge funding of parks, subdivision builders build lakes and roads to get the permits.

Low income people live in an apartment complex in this city. Low income people enjoy the benefits of the high quality schools, the parks, the clean streets and the well run police and fire dept's... and if their income is too low, it should be subsidized.

[Taverner]

10. Either Capitalism has to be drastically changed, or we need something else

I'm a Socialist, personally - but that day is many years coming

It will eventually become the norm (maybe 1000+ years from now) - since that is the only way for the Human race to survive long-term

[TheKentuckian]

15. Half or more of the "progressive agenda" is a response to the excesses of capitalism

Civil Right and liberties are relatively inexpensive.

[Boojatta]

16. .

Brezhev's nightmare