What kind of witnesses could be called to the stand to defend gay marriage bans, by showing damages?

[Sparkly]

Boies and Olson called 18 witnesses, and I imagine there could have been many more describing how the ban on same-sex marriages has harmed them. But witnesses to say allowing same-sex marriage harms them somehow? I can't imagine what the two people they called had to say.

Defense lawyers argued at trial that the ban was necessary to safeguard the traditional understanding of marriage and to encourage responsible childbearing. But they called just two witnesses, compared to the 18 put on by the plaintiffs, claiming they did not need to present expert testimony because the U.S. Supreme Court had never recognized a right to same-sex marriage.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100805/ap_on_re_us/us_gay_marriage_trial

So what kinds of witnesses could be called?

- A neighbor: "I figured they were having gay sex over there, but I had to be sure so I got out my binoculars and looked, but I still couldn't see everything so I was leanin' out my window to get just the right angle when I fell out of the window and broke my leg."

- A coworker: "So I was having coffee at work, minding my own business, when I heard that two gay people in our office had gotten married -- to each other!! I was so shocked and startled, I spilled hot coffee on myself and suffered 3rd-degree burns."

- A random person: "I had a great marriage until gay people were allowed to get married, too. I just figured, what's the point? So I started having affairs and now my life is ruined."

Help them out -- post your own!!

[bigtree]

1. the judge ripped those two's credibility

One response from one of them was, "I got it from the internet." :rofl:

[Sparkly]

2. What did the two actually claim?

What a hoot!

[bigtree]

8. I saw this on Rachel last night

Other testimony they gave included excerpts from a group session in which everything that came into participants minds was recorded as fact.

Rachael says the judge spells out these absurdities in his written remarks. I haven't seen them yet. Just excerpts on her show which were detailed and incredible. He dismissed the prosecutions assertions that they were experts. These two witnesses were apparently the only ones left standing after others backed out and refused to testify.

I think this is a path to the ruling: https://ecf.cand.uscourts.gov/cand/09cv2292/

[bigtree]

10. here's an excerpt from the ruling

United States District Court
For the Northern District of California

The credibility of Miller’s opinions relating to gay and
lesbian political power is undermined by his admissions that he:
(1) has not focused on lesbian and gay issues in his research or
study; (2) has not read many of the sources that would be relevant
to forming an opinion regarding the political power of gays and
lesbians; (3) has no basis to compare the political power of gays
and lesbians to the power of other groups, including
African-Americans and women; and (4) could not confirm that he
personally identified the vast majority of the sources that he
cited in his expert report, see PX0794A.

Furthermore, Miller undermined the credibility of his opinions by conceding that gays and lesbians currently face discrimination and that current discrimination is relevant to a group’s political power. Miller’s credibility was further undermined because the opinions he offered at trial were inconsistent with the opinions he expressed before he was retained as an expert.

more: https://ecf.cand.uscourts.gov/cand/09cv2292/files/09cv2292-ORDER.pdf

[Sparkly]

11. Thanks for that!!

"Proponents elected not to call the majority of their designated witnesses to testify at trial and called not a single official proponent of Proposition 8 to explain the discrepancies between the arguments in favor of Proposition 8 presented to voters and the arguments presented in court.... (snip) Proponents' counsel stated in court on Friday, January 15, 2010, that their witnesses 'were extremely concerned about personal safety, and did not want to appear with any recording of any sort, whatsoever.'"

About this guy Blankenhorn: "... he has no degree in sociology, psychology, or anthropology despite the importance of those fields to the subjects of marriage, fatherhood and family structure... and his study of the effects of same-sex marriage involved 'read(ing) articles and hav(ing) conversations with people and try(ing) to be an informed person about it.'"

:rofl:

[arcane1]

3. It will be a challenge to find people willing to commit perjury

since lying would be the only way they could show "damage"

[Deep13]

4. There are no witnesses on appeal.

Factual review is limited to ascertaining whether or not the trial court's decision has some reasonable support in the record (mainly the court reporter's transcript of the trial.) Other than that, the Court of Appeals mostly concerns itself with the correct interpretation of law.

[Sparkly]

5. Ohh... Fun to think about anyway. Consider it what they COULD have said, then.

:D

[lunatica]

6. The exact same witnesses they already brought forth

Aren't they renowned for doing the same thing ad infinitum hoping the outcome will be different?

[asjr]

7. I never understood the Prop 8 mess. How

can a state or a group of individuals declare that two people of the same sex can't get married because it would mess up traditional marriage? That goes way beyond reason. If that is their stance then their "traditional" marriages must be in trouble to begin with. So, if a "traditional" husband or wife wants a divorce all they have to do is blame it on the gays? They are trying to blame their racism and bigotry on others.

[sarge43]

9. My answer to that one is

only two people can mess up my marriage - me and the hubby.

[Sparkly]

12. A kick for the night crowd -- come on, suggest some witnesses for them. They need the help.

More witnesses:

- A rightwing radio listener: "I was drivin' on the interstate when I heard gay people could get married and how people could be marryin' turtles and all. I started thinkin' real hard about how sex would work with a turtle, and what other critters might be better, and I didn't see that truck... This gay marriage thing has got to be stopped."

- A parent: "I was putting my little ones to bed, when Betsy and little Biff started asking me about Peter Pan and some 'fairy!' Yes, they used the word, 'fairy.' I was so shocked to realize that my own children were corrupted, I ran out to call 911 and tripped on the stairs, breaking my arm. All because of the, you know, fairies."

- A building contractor: "So there we were, working on this roof, when Joe said something about my tool. I thought he was coming onto me on account of the whole gay marriage thing, so I threw a few things at him and walked off the job. Now I'm unemployed."

- A politician: "I am not gay. I never have been gay. I have a wide stance. If gay marriage became legal, my whole life's work fighting homosexuality could be rendered meaningless -- a desperate, pitiful attempt to escape my own - uh ... I am not gay."