Why Don't Americans Have Longer Vacations?

[groovedaddy]

Workers in Western Europe have faced some cuts in their social benefits of late, but no one is touching their vacations: four weeks, six weeks, eight weeks, plus those long holiday weekends. It doesn't mean they are all loafing, certainly not the Germans, who are cranking out exports. The German unemployment rate has fallen to 7.6 percent, compared with 9.5 percent in the United States.

Americans have long complained that they have to put in more hours, to please their bosses and save their jobs, and that sometimes they can't take the entire two weeks they have earned.

What explains the vacation gap between the United States and Europe? Are the differences really as stark as they appear?
>
It’s August again. That means that while the French buff their tans along the Mediterranean, Swedes feast on crayfish in the Baltic archipelago and Germans shed their clothes on Ibiza, it’s business as usual for America’s hamburger-flipping, minimum-waged, vacation-deprived drones. Two weeks out of 52, while the Europeans measure their legally mandated vacation time in months. Is there no justice?

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2010/8/4/why-dont-americans-have-longer-vacations/vacations-the-us-europe-gap-isnt-as-wide-as-you-think

[stray cat]

1. If you make it mandatory that one work less and get paid less it helps unemployment numbers

[county worker]

9. How?

That's complete bull shit. You help unemployment by creating job opportunities not taking away opportunities that others have.

This is not a zero sum game.

It is a sick idea to screw people who are doing ok because others are not. Raise everyone up!

[uncommon]

13. Exactly.

[RainDog]

28. that's not bullshit you smell

that's troll.

[laughingliberal]

11. I don't think Europeans get paid less. This length of vacation has been standard there many year

[EstimatedProphet]

67. Why are you here again, exactly?

[alsame]

2. Well, Congress does. We serfs don't matter. nt

[avaistheone1]

They certainly do seem to vacation a lot.

[ipfilter]

3. Our culture values the pursuit of material possessions over

travel and leisure.

[CBR]

6. Yup... nt

[Merlot]

27. Not our culture, our corporate culture

Corporations are the ones who hire one employee to do the job of two people. They are the ones that decreed the 2 week vacations. American workers don't have a lot of option, but I'm guessing if you asked most people if they'd like to work more hours, or work less hours and have more time to spend with their families they'd pic the later. Most people are afraid to even use their sick time which corporations frown on.

[zipplewrath]

4. Because they gave up on the union movement

Europe has strong unions. Even Germany.

[laughingliberal]

7. There's the difference! That, and our country hates us. nt

[JHB]

16. Germany's constitution was written by New Dealers...

...strong labor protections are practically built-in.

[Bozita]

26. +1

[defendandprotect]

60. Let's say, the rightwing propaganda re unions worked . . . .!!

[old mark]

5. Because congress is owned by the manufacturers, and the unions have little

real power despite the right's howling claims to the contrary. The "small people" here in the US are a commodity, and we are used up and disposed of and told we are living in freedom while the RW nazis shits who run the GOP lecture us about creeping socialism and how we should never become like Europe...

We probably do need a revolution here, but not the one the teabaggers envision...

More vacation? Hell, they don't even want you to have basic health insurance.

Work hard all your life, get old and die-the republican plan for you and me.

mark

[defendandprotect]

61. In America, highest unionization ever reached was 39% ... now 7%....in other words...

that floor under salaries -- and working conditions -- is also almost gone!!

[hlthe2b]

8. Because we didn't really outlaw slavery in all its forms....

The oligarchy just extended it to indentured servitude and included everyone not independently wealthy. I remember growing up thinking how lucky I was to be an American--a US citizen. I haven't thought that for more than a decade, given the lack of health care, the indifference to the poor, the growth of power for the corporatocracy, and the systematic dismantling of the middle class.

So effective has the powers that be in brainwashing much of the population, that the majority of Americans will likely defend our system and accuse the Europeans of being "lazy", rather consider that we are being exploited.

[Blue_Tires]

10. funny to think how ignorant i used to be

up until my mid-20s, i thought the "Two weeks paid" was the general standard the world over...Once I started meeting more folks from other countries my eyes really opened...

[AnneD]

14. And then one day you realise....

If socialism is so bad:

Why does everyone else in the developed world have universal health care and we don't.
Why does everyone have so much vacation time.
Why does everyone else have generous maternity leave.
Why does everyone else have quality child care and early education.
Why is their export equal to or greater than ours.

I wish every American had the chance to travel overseas. While there are some good things here, we are fast becoming just another stagnant backwater third world country.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

21. When they are no longer able to say that it's bad or evil or wrong or doomed to failure...

...they suddenly switch to "it's not socialism".

I've seen the switch happen with me own eye, right here on DU.

[defendandprotect]

65. Orwell: Re Communism and Capitalism . . . "a pox on both their houses" . . . !!

Many Americans are also very confused about what socialism is . . .

USSR - United Soviet Socialist Republic!!

No -- J. Edgar Hoover, for one, always made the absolute point of referring to

it as "totalitarian communism." Quite different from socialism.


Also -- In Germany's actual enlightened days, they had a real socialist party in

the NAZI Party -- which concerned itself with women's rights -- reproductive freedom -

abortion -- child care -- health care -- nutritional foods -- etal --

Hitler took over that party and of course changed it completely!

[defendandprotect]

62. We're looking more like GOP "third world America" . . . !!

[valerief]

12. Same reason we don't have single payer health care. Or jobs.

The puppetmasters are busy making more money for themselves and making sure the military protects them from us.

[defendandprotect]

68. MIC --

[Bonhomme Richard]

15. I don't know if you notice that people in power get plenty of...

vacation time. It's the serfs that are the ones getting screwed. As usual. The crazy thing here is that the serfs just roll over and are too cowered to make any stand....unless they want to lose the underpaying job they might have. That and the courts don't take too kindly to boat rockers.
On another note you can look at government workers who do get substantial vacation and health benefits. Why is that? Because as manufacturers could declare war on unions freely government workers were left alone for the most part and they still have fairly strong representation. That of course is all changing now that the government is reducing jobs and cutting benefits. They also get to use the "overpaid, lazy government worker" propaganda geared toward the non government worker who has been getting it in the rear for a long time. Once again turning worker against worker in order to drive everyone down to the lowest common denominator.

[MisterP]

17. 'coz the US hasn't had a left wing on Capitol Hill since 1953

thanks to McCarthy (though Americans for Democratic Action helped)

[defendandprotect]

69. McCarthy Era: Purged liberals and progressives from government . . .!!

[political_Dem]

18. Because Americans are so into the Puritan Work Ethic they want to do away with summer vacation.

The sad thing is now people want to take summer vacation away from their kids.

No wonder we are a stressed out, depressed nation. :(

[BridgeTheGap]

19. I've been working as a temp for 5+ years now. Same job, same pay 5 days paid leave a year +

standard holidays. No other benefits. It sucks but I don't see much else happening on the job scene here.

[asdjrocky]

20. Simple answer-

If you're still lucky enough to have a job your boss owns your ass.

[butterfly77]

22. Like congress and the senate..

[marmar]

23. I was visiting San Francisco, riding on a cable car, talking to this nice couple from Ohio.....

...... and the wife said she had no idea what to do with all of her vacation time (3 wks) and would probably work over some of it.

:wtf:

We've been conditioned to be slaves to work, and feel guilty when we're enjoying vacation time we've earned. ..... I feel no such guilt, however.

[smirkymonkey]

56. I have 4 weeks of Vacation + 2 Personal Days

And I am taking every single day of it. If we don't use it, we lose it and the company encourages us to take it. (they beleive in work/life balance - they know stressed out workers are not very productive).

Sick time is not counted in this - if you are sick, you are sick as long as it doesn't get to be too much of a habit, like every other Monday.

[defendandprotect]

70. "Idleness is the beginning of all wisdom" . . . !!

[Skidmore]

24. Because it hurts productivity....and

we wouldn't want the wealthy to be deprived of earnings. After all, how will they be able to buy expensive trinkets and tax shelters. You know they own tax shelters, not homes, don't you?

[The2ndWheel]

25. Too envious of other people's vacation time?

I'm sure that time adds up.

Take a job with less responsibility. Maybe a job that pays less, but affords you more free time. Move in with friends and/or family. It spreads the risk, it shares the burden. There's a cost, sure, but it's all about compromise right? We're all in this thing together?

Try to change the system. Go for it. While we wait for that, we could try to make it easier on ourselves.

[Kat45]

30. The low paying, low responsibilty jobs usually have low benefits

That means few, if any, vacation days.

[daleo]

29. While on vacation, people get a chance to think

And that's dangerous to the interests of the upper classes. Only the rich are given the privilege of idleness.

[defendandprotect]

71. Observant comment . . . !!

"Idless is the beginning of all wisdom" --

[Mimosa]

31. Some of us can't afford ANY vacations.

Our health insurance costs us $13,000 a year. It's a big expense. No money left over for 'fun.'

[DFW]

32. My daughter just moved from the States back to Germany

Germany has, by the way, neither single payer (more of a patchwork system, though hardly anyone is not covered) nor socialism.

What they DO have, however, is a system that was instituted after the Second World War where the conservatives
were just as eager to get away from the Nazi era as the left. Adenauer hardly stood in the way of social reform.

The situation ebbs and flows with the see-saw of SPD to CDU/CSU and back, but in reality little changes. The
global and/or EU economic climate has a bigger influence on national policy than which party is in power.

My daughter just graduated with honors from her law school in the States. She would have been willing to take
one of those low-level slave jobs with a good law firm in New York, Boston or Washington, where they give you
two weeks vacation, and then warn you not to take them, or overload you with so much work, you have no time
to take them, and then only dole out your health insurance in doses so as to keep you around for the promise
of more and better care. Instead, they all said, sorry, not hiring unless you were #1 at Harvard or Yale Law.

She didn't even apply to Harvard or Yale Law.

So, it was waiting on tables in New York, or..............

She blew some of her savings on a lightning trip to a German legal job fair in Frankfurt, and so blew away the
German arm of a top British law firm that they sent her to London to interview with the head office. She has
just left the USA, unwillingly, as she loves New York, and her sister is still there. But the job she starts
in September in Frankfurt pays just under six figures IN EUROS (half goes in taxes), she gets 6 weeks vacation,
and is EXPECTED to take the six weeks to avoid burn-out. In addition, she gets FULL health care from day one.

Guess what? The firm is expected to turn a profit. I doubt they would offer all that stuff if they were losing
money by doing so. Happy, healthy employees make for better employees. It seems this is not universally known,
logical though it may seem.

Talk about an offer she couldn't refuse.

When she and her sister were born, the first thing we did was to make sure they got both German and American
nationalities in case the situation should arise that they should find themselves in a situation where it would
be a huge advantage to be able to work in one country or the other.

It arose.

[a la izquierda]

35. I envy your daughter.

I will be applying for every academic job in Europe that I can. I missed the deadline on a job at the University of Liverpool. My dad is in process of applying for his Irish passport. As soon as he's done, I'm applying for mine. It will make getting a job in the EU a bit easier.

[DFW]

36. A LOT easier, I'd say

An EU passport is a ticket to a job application anywhere in the EU. Just make sure you speak the language
of wherever it is you're going. You'd have about as much of a chance getting a job in Germany speaking
only English as you would in Arkansas speaking only German.

My wife is German, and we made a point of speaking our native languages to our kids since birth.

[a la izquierda]

I'm fluent in Spanish, and literate in French.

My German is abysmal. Universities that would hire me would only expect that I'd know Spanish and English (and maybe Portuguese)-I study Latin America.

We'll see what happens. Even Canada is okay with me at this point.

[a la izquierda]

53. Edit Dupe Delete

[LanternWaste]

58. I have two life-long friends working in Germany

I have two life-long friends working in Germany-- one in Essen, the other in Frankfort. Neither speaks German at all.

Granted, they're learning, but it's tough for them as they were both born in a country which minimized the importance of bilingualism, and I imagine that's a tough habit to break.

[DFW]

73. It gets easier with time, but it must be done

All industrialized countries are full of cultural ghettos of foreigners who work there, but never socially
integrate. Long term, it's depressing and unsatisfying, and an irritant to the host country and its people.
Just as speaking only German in America (or Japan, or Ecuador, or wherever) would lead to a cultural and social
isolation, so would living in Germany without speaking German lead to a similar isolation. The language unlocks
the door to the host country, and it must be learned for the sake of sanity if one is to spend time in another
country.

My native language is English, of course, but I've lived in Spain, and if you don't learn Castillian (and, in
my case, Catalan, as I was in Barcelona), you're forever an outsider. Similarly, spending much of my time in
Germany (and married to a German), learning German was a necessity, not an option. French, Russian, Dutch and
the others were optional, but they facilitate travel and communication in Europe, which is one VERY small place
after growing up in North America.

[Blue_Tires]

57. congrats to your daughter...

i just got back from Frankfurt and loved it...

[defendandprotect]

72. Congratulations . . . though, like you, I'm thinking how swell it would be

if my kids were able to move along to other countries -- but also realizing

what it means for the family! We're Irish/German -- so we're reversing

the 1880's-1900's re immigration from Europe!

Remember the Irish sending their children away!!

Right now my sister -- born here -- is living in Ireland -- she had married

a Irish national who had lived in America from the time he was a teenager.

Best wishes to your daughter!

Do you still have family in Germany?

Does your daughter speak German?

[DFW]

75. To answer your two questions

Except for my daughter, who now will be living in Germany for the first time since 2001, I have no blood
relatives there.

I have family in Germany to the extent that all of my wife's relatives still live there, as does she.

As I am more in Europe than I am in America due to my work, this works out fine for us. Actually, as I
write this, she is on her way here from Düsseldorf for our annual vacation in New England.

My daughter, for all practical purposes, IS German. She was born there, grew up there, considers German
to be her native language. She is now fluent in English, of course, and very good in French as well, but
reverts to German instantly when talking with her sister, boyfriend, or mom. She never had school in English
until she was 16, so we consider her achievement in US universities to be pretty remarkable. I will forever
jealous of her experience at HPA. My time in Spain seems dull compared to that.

[defendandprotect]

76. Thanks for the info--

again -- best wishes to all --

[groovedaddy]

33. American management and labor relations has been primarily a contentious relationship. While the

ruling class/management model has evolved over time, ever tightening control, the labor side has lost the substantial power it had gained since the depression and post WWII. Part and parcel of the RW movement to establish itself firmly in mass media, has been the degrading of the American labor movement in general, unions in particular. It still amazes me when I meet working people who think unions are a bad idea!

[WinkyDink]

34. Euros know what the good life is, and are willing to pay the taxes for it. We think WORK is where

it's at.

[CoffeeCat]

37. My husband has a month of vacation time...

...but it's been built up over the years. He never takes it because he's afraid to leave work. He works
for a small, high-tech start up, and they've had three rounds of layoffs. So, he's essentially working three
jobs--making up for the people that they've fired.

Hubby tried to take a few days off last month. He was so stressed out about not being there that he couldn't
even enjoy himself. They must have called him ten times every day, anyway. So he did end up working on his
three vacation days.

The company has orchestrated quite the situation. Workers are responsible for so much that they can't leave.
Plus, there have been so many layoffs that the workers are scared to death of losing their job and healthcare--
and becoming one of the unemployed. So they fear being away for even a day.

I've been a stay-at-home mom while my kids are young. It was really important to our family that I be at home while
the kids are young--especially after school and in the summers. But who are we kidding--that's a luxury in most families
now. I'm ramping up to go back to work this fall.

We no longer have choices any more in this country. You either play by the corporate rules or you're out on the streets. Don't
like the rules? TOUGH!

[pipi_k]

42. That sounds a lot like one of my past jobs working for

a health care place

I was so swamped with work and under pressure that I eventually got ill and had to take time off, then had to quit.

I later heard from one of my coworkers that they had to have three people do my job.

And this was back in 1986 or so...

[bettyellen]

74. X 1000

[pipi_k]

38. Not just Europe..

My last job I worked at a place that sold industrial machinery. I often had to communicate with manufacturers in other countries...mainly Japan.

It was real hard to reach people because they always seemed to be "on holiday" over there.


Even so, the rest of the US seemed pretty liberal with time off in comparison with the company where I worked. The owner was extremely stingy with holidays, and probably would have preferred we all work on Christmas, Thanksgiving, New Years, etc. Those were the only holidays we were given time off for.

[Stevenmarc]

39. Because employees are considered a business expense and not a company asset

[Dappleganger]

40. Because they are losing benefits while being laid off.

And are afraid to ask for more. When dh got his new job I pushed for him to ask for another week of vacation, and they gave it to him!

IMO we need more national holidays where things are CLOSED.

[pstokely]

50. Private sector employees don't get MLK Jr. Day off

neither President's Day

[mmonk]

41. You want a first world country or something?

We need a "growth" economy with high unemployment, low wages, and longer hours. Haven't you read Milton Friedman's books?

[chrisa]

43. Because we are no longer a nation of small businesses.

It's either work for the big corporations, or be on the streets. They like their stupid, obedient little ass kissers, and everybody else can pound sand.

[pipi_k]

44. Actually, I did work for a small business...

(see a couple of posts above) the one that sold industrial machinery and the one where we employees were grudgingly given three days off per year for holidays.

And vacation was just as grudgingly given.


The larger company (the health care place) was way more liberal with regards to time off. We had "flex time", kept track of our own hours, and could convert any overtime we worked to either pay, or more time off.

It really was a great place to work except for the pressure I put myself under to work a job that took three people to do after I left.

:shrug:

[groovedaddy]

45. I work for fortune 500 company and it's actually the best place I've ever worked in terms of stress.

Vacation time sucks though and pay...it's all a trade off in one way or another. I've also worked for small businesses that really sucked!

[pipi_k]

64. Yep, it's a crapshoot...

The little place I worked at was a family owned business. One of the owners seemed quite proud of this when he told me at my interview. Yep, when you work here, you become "part of the family"...

Well.

Some families are just waaaaayyyy too dysfunctional for most normal people to deal with...

:scared:

[mainer]

55. I think small businesses work people harder

And the owners of small businesses work the most hours per year.

[1monster]

46. Two weeks out of fifty-two? What dream world are you living in?

Many, many jobs (fast food) don't give vacation hours to their employees. I know someone who worked ten years for a fast food company, quite often 50 to 60 hours a week, and never earned one hour of vacation time. In fact, no benefits at all. He got $8.25 per hour when he quit.

My husband has acrued six weeks of vacation time (his employers stop allowing acrued time at 240 hours) and the company refused to let him leave two hours early on the day before his vacation so he could make the train departure time.

This is the first real vacation we were taking since 1990. He did use his acrued time twice before: once for a arterial stent placement (two weeks) and once for a triple bypass (six weeks vacation and six weeks Family Leave). And we can only take four days away because my job starts back to work five days after his two week vacation starts.

[BridgeTheGap]

47. Wage slavery is real. Too many people working 2 - 3 jobs to make ends meet.

The fat cats have their game down pat. We working people just suffer the consequences and seemed to have lost class consciousness sufficient to organize ourselves and put an end to this shit!

[Greyhound]

48. "I freed a thousand slaves,

I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves"

We never account for the power that delusion has over so many.
:kick: & R

[SammyWinstonJack]

51. +1

My brother has worked in the same limestone plant for 37 yrs now.

He gets 8 wks vacation per year. He spreads it out. He is fortuante to have that much time off and he has earned it.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LongTomH]

52. I had 4 weeks accrued vacation - when I was laid off in 2005!

Actually, since my company was going through round after round of layoffs, most people didn't take all of their vacation time. They got paid for the vacation time they didn't take when they were let go.

On my last contract job, I didn't get paid vacation, paid holidays, or paid sick days. If I took a day off, I just didn't get paid. If I had been able to keep the position another few months, I would have gotten up to the 'Silver' classification - meaning I would at least get paid holidays.

[LibertyLover]

54. I get 30 days a year, plus 12 sick days, plus 5 family emergency days

We also get US federal holidays. There are some years I use all my vacation days and others when I don't. Right now I have about 20 accrued. If we have more than 60 accrued, we begin to loose them as they are translated into sick days. When I retire I get some terminal leave as well, I believe it will be about 60 days. After all these years of decent vacation time, I'd hate to go back to the usual 2 weeks given by most US companies.

[defendandprotect]

59. Because we've been more under corporate domination . . . and kept dumb/stupid ...!!

And, yes, it's essential to the elites that they also cave European benefits -- they've

been working on that -- and destroying their unions -- for decades.

Just as an aside . . .

It doesn't mean they are all loafing, certainly not the Germans, who are cranking out exports.

"Idleness is the beginning of all wisdom" --


And -- didn't the Germans shorten their work day week because of unemployment?

It's also what we should do -- and I think Hartmann the other day said that

government was subsidizing some of this?

Immediately after the coup on JFK, word came down that vacations were a luxury and

work was more important! In fear, Americans began long ago to deteriorate their

own working status - work week/hours --

Always will be ak's who will hang around late and come in early -- but, progressively

there were pressures put on many employees to do much more than their normal days' work.

And eventually, we've been losing the 9 to 5 day. Some employees have found it necessary

to come in on Saturdays and even Sundays on occasion.


We also know many families have members who work more than one job!

Many Americans didn't know how out of it they were with only two weeks vacation time --

we were progressing to a more usual 3 week -- and then four and five weeks based on years

worked -- but again that was blown up not too long after JFK.


Americans have been sold a bill of goods that corporations are everything -- know everything,

do everything -- and America is best!

Someday they may wake up from that non-reality?


Royals/Elites simply now hide behind or have morphed into corporations --

same thing it ever was -- elites wanting to own and control everying and everyone!!

[4lbs]

63. Blame the Socialist policies in Europe for their workers getting 4+ weeks of vacation and we

in the U.S. getting barely two weeks if we're lucky.

Yup, that darn Socialism. It doesn't work, I tells ya!

;)

[EstimatedProphet]

66. Because we're supposed to be cogs

The purpose of the American worker is to provide profit for the American owner. If we took vacations we would be letting them down, wouldn't we?

[lynne]

77. Vacation, hell . . . I just want a JOB!!!

I've been on an eight month unwanted and unneeded vacation. GIVE ME WORK!!!