i already got in a little tiff with middle school coaches, and the year has yet to start.

[seabeyond]

filling out all the papers in a rush today, to get both boys registered in high school and middle school, i came to a paper saying i "o.k." random steroid and drug testing of my children. i have never heard of this law. i am innately so opposed to children giving up right with this and power taken from parent. i dont know a lot about the law.

i didn't sign for my oldest and was able to get the papers thru. i want to think about it more and research.

i understand why schools are doing this. i dont want any kid to be taking steroids. i also dont want anyone doing anything random with my children that could effect their future without me being aware.

i had the same form in the middle school papers. i said something to the coach and he was really snotty and dismissive. so i was equally snotty in a sorta respectful way. he told me "of course they are going to call the parents and inform them. they would have to in order to prevent law suits."

but it didn't say that in any of the papers

i told him i had to get more information.

later i talked to a couple different moms. neither had a problem with this. one mom i knew well said, "you are so good. you always pay attention to this stuff. i just sign and dont read."

i was thinking about it. feeling bad about already speaking out before year started. i wish i was a parent that just signed. how much easier that would be for all of us. but, then i thought, because all these parents just sign and dont care, it is the reason more and more of these rules are being implemented.

how do people on du feel about this.

thanks.

[villager]

1. you need to speak up -- you nailed it exactly; most remain silent

...hence the growing, metastasizing invasiveness in everyone's lives...

[seabeyond]

26. growing, metastasizing invasiveness in everyone's lives...

that is what i was telling my youngest.

that is why we have stopped flying. this is an important issue for me, an issue i am willing to do without.

not that i would stop sons from doing their sport. but i am not comfortable being a part of the whole in willingly signing. seems like a sell out.

again, if i have to...

[Extend a Hand]

2. Yeah, I think they hope you'll sign without reading

In order to avoid trouble for my kid, usually I'd try to just not turn in any form I really didn't want to sign and hope that no one noticed. This does work some of the time. If it doesn't you can always try delaying and see how long you can last before some consequence requires a confrontation. What a pita. :(

[seabeyond]

19. that is what i did. i didnt sign that paper, in two different places and turned in.

they didnt call me on it. they may.

[w8liftinglady]

3. good question..a parent,nurse,and former steroid-user here...

Steroids are MUCH harder to get these days....MUCH!So,this appears to be a veiled threat used to intimidate.My thoughts alone...I could be wrong.My youngest plays junior high football,and my other two played High School.Never had a random drug test.Of course...this IS Texas.

[seabeyond]

5. i doubt that either of the children would ever be tested. and i STILL dont want to sign the paper.

this is one of those rules that really turn me off. i havent run into a rule yet i cant accept. but this is one.

[w8liftinglady]

6. when I said not tested=I meant i never had a form-so it sounds suspicious...

[seabeyond]

7. really. see you are in texas too. you should be having the same form.

i haven't seen it before this year. one coach said something about last year. i do not believe i had it. i don't think i missed, and just signed. can not fathom me doing that.

i will have to find the info on it

if i have to, you should too.

[Curmudgeoness]

8. I wonder about how hard it is to get steriods, or something like them.

My boss was always a very laid back guy, never got rattled or angry, and if he thought he did, he was so upset with himself. He started to take some sort of "protein drink" to lose weight and get in shape, and now he is bulking up and is always angry---and unapologetic. When I mentioned this once, he said his wife has been saying the same time. So I have suspicions about what is in this drink.

[w8liftinglady]

9. 2 choices-you can have a doc prescribe them for "low Testosterone level" or get them from

an overseas distributor...both of which are exorbitant.Now-there are men that are testosterone deficient and need this...but they are in the minority.just my observation.With the overseas steroids,they require customs approval,which doesn't happen about 40% of the time...and they are expensive...not to mention fake a lot of the time.NOT worth the effort.Sounds to me like he might have gotten his hands on some-reminds me of my old workout partner...

[flvegan]

40. You really don't want to know how EASY it is to get "steroids"

I put steroids in quotes because there's the real thing, and there are still a shitpile of precursors out there.

However, that said, our kids are getting more hormones artificially from their diet, IMO.

[Posteritatis]

15. They're probably actually looking for something mundane like pot. (nt)

[seabeyond]

18. this is what i kinda feel. i told the boys, IF (and they haven't) but IF say

they had taken a couple puffs of pot, had a random test, anything could be tested. and what.... ruin their future? no way. what about in a room with pot smoker and saying no to drug, still contact high.

that was fun putting out for kids. was a really? really? on the contact high. just another bet of reinforcement with knowledge on repercussion with choices they make.

but that is part of it, honestly. i dont trust.

[TK421]

4. I've never even heard of this...something stinks here

investigate it

[MadHound]

10. Steroid use among school athletes has become a problem

It started becoming more prevalent starting ten years ago, and has risen ever since, especially among high school age athletes.

This has come about due to the fact that too many parents either don't notice (witness your moms who didn't even notice the legal language) or don't care.

[azureblue]

11. you need your own "form"

That says the school and coaches will be held liable if your offspring is tested with out your written permission PER TEST OCCURRENCE, and the school will be held liable for any and all costs should such testing result in injury or harm to your child.

[seabeyond]

29. i am going to get more information

see if it is local or state. the coaches mentioned across texas. sounds state, yet another poster with son in texas schools didnt have the form. that makes me woner.

but i like this idea. thanks

[yellerpup]

12. You did the admirable thing by standing up, even in the face of pressure

and even though you would rather have taken the easy way out. (Who wouldn't?) But, you didn't take the easy way out and that was a brave thing to do. I don't have children, but I wouldn't allow strangers to subject them to random drug testing if I did. You'll be glad in the long run that you followed your instincts.

[d_r]

13. imho you did the right thing

[jberryhill]

14. Funny... not a word about your kids' opinions

Are you worried about their rights or your control?

[seabeyond]

16. you are right. it isn't about my kids making this decision. it is my parental obligation to

consider things that effect or could effect my kids and their future. that is my job. whether i feel it is a situation to ask for their opinion, i do. we discussed this issue. they know how i feel and why i feel as i do. they also trust my parenting that i will see the outcome is best for them. they trust me. that is 15 yrs and 12 yrs of trust that i have built up with my kids.

they both know that i will not cause undue complications for them in their life. again, 15 and 12 yrs of me doing just that.

i am not worried

but i am equally concerned about both their rights and damn straight,.... my control. i am not shy in saying that a parent should have the decision making power and not the school or the state in these individual rights. be it an adult, or a child. since the child does not have the "right" to voice, as a parent, i do, for them.

on edit: we talked at the dinner table tonight. i wanted to hear how hubby felt. he, too, has an issue with random testing with no parental notification. i have listened to all in my family. and still, i am thinking, and will deal with situation if i am called out for not signing the paper. in the meantime, i will educate myself.

[Posteritatis]

20. How dare someone defend the rights of their underaged children on their own initiative?

Oy.

[jberryhill]

21. Yeah... the abortion folks are pretty much the same way

At 12 and 15, mine were all perfectly capable of understanding the trade-offs here between consenting to random tests or not playing on the team, and I would expect them to be able to reach an informed decision.

And, yes, I would value their own opinions over even my own on something like that.

They are adults now, and oddly enough, they are very careful about making informed decisions for themselves.

It's called practice. I allowed my kids to make a lot of their own decisions, and always challenged them, required them to explain them, and respected them when it appeared they had reached a reasoned decision, even if it was one with which I would disagree.

Otherwise, you get robots. Or the "good kids" who turned into raging alcoholics as soon as they got out on their own. Seen plenty of that too.

I was simply observing that in the telling of the story, the children here have a cameo role. They don't even appear in the script during the dinner table conversation.

[seabeyond]

23. have i said, anywhere, in any post, or implied, i would stop them from playing sports

before signing that paper?

i could equally jump on that you have the control because you "allowed" (form of control) kids to make a lot of their decisions, giving them the practice necessary for adulthood.

do you KNOW that i do not do the same. or are you making assumptions. a productive way argue on the net.....

i am clearly asking others how they feel about this policy, and i have stated i have not made any decisions.

i would never stop either boys from particpating in their sport. oldest has been working too hard, all summer, and it means too much to him, with his cross country.

that is not the point.

[jberryhill]

37. "how do people on du feel about this"

Nobody is "jumping" on you.

You told a story and asked for reactions.

You got mine. Since nowhere in the story are their opinions mentioned, that struck me as a significant feature of the story.

Next time you want reactions from an audience of thousands of people you don't know, be sure to specify that you don't want reactions that piss you off.

[seabeyond]

39. i appreciate your perspective, though off base. nt

[John Q. Citizen]

17. You are being responsible to ask questions and take some time to decide before just signing away

your kids search and seizure rights.

If you do some googling, you will probably find some cases, as I did about 10 years ago, where schools are way out of hand on their policies as regards search, seizure, and students.

In my case our school sent home a notice that they were going to institute a K-9 drug dog sniffing sweep program where they hire a dog handler who comes in randomly to dog-sniff the students and their lockers/packs/etc.

While I appreciated the intent was to keep drugs/contraband out of the school, I was worried the method was stupid, wasteful, and ultimately counter productive. I googled and found numerous cases of School Districts in litigation with students and parents over false alerts, mistake alerts (like a dog alerting on Midol in middle-school or high school girls, students planting small amounts of pot (like a twig or a seed) in or on another students pack or locker. It looked potentially problematic on a number of levels.

I favor a pro-active approach for at risk kids and would use the money to fund life skills and wilderness education/life saving/climbing/pack animals/ kind of activities over a punitive enforcement strategy.

My wife and I (since divorced) both went to the meeting but we arrived separately. She had our kids with her, and i got there a couple of minutes after the meeting started and sat down as unobtrusively as possible in a nearby seat. So no one at the meeting knew that I was with the woman and the three kids. there weren't very many parents there, maybe 3 or 4 different families represented at best. When the presenter asked for questions, I brought up some of the problems I'd found with similar dog/school district contracts, and asked about the potential ramifications.

Later I found out from my wife that the Superintendent of Schools was rolling his eyes and making mocking faces, literally behind my back since he was seated behind me in the row, about the fact that I was asking questions.

Not too professional, IMHO.

[Born_A_Truman]

22. I would also be concerned with false positives ...

http://www.drugpolicy.org/law/drugtesting/

Unfortunately, many of the newer drug testing technologies are not sufficiently reliable and yield a significant number of "false positive" test results - that is, drug screens that appear to show drug use when none has taken place. In addition, an increasing number of prescription and over-the-counter medications and even foods produce positive drug test results even though the person being tested did not ingest drugs. The unreliability of many drug testing technologies is a matter of grave concern, particularly when the negative consequences that flow from positive drug tests are so enormous.

[Texasgal]

24. My younger brother is a high school

football coach here in Texas. I am going to ask him about this.

Stay tuned!

[seabeyond]

25. ah... do. lol. thanks. that would be great

would appreciate the info on it, texasgal.

[mrmpa]

27. Do what I do whenever I have papers to sign & don't agree

I take a sharpie and cross out totally what I don't agree with, sign the paper and make a copy of it. I've never been called on the carpet for it.

[seabeyond]

28. ooooh, that is good. lol

hm, interesting. i will keep that in mind.

sending the papers in unsigned, i figured they would call me on it. they didnt. maybe i am not the only parent and they let it go.

but i will remember your suggestion for the future. i like it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

30. Good for you

I would also refuse to sign this. I would also have a conference with the principal and a school board member.

[seabeyond]

31. really

see, i didnt expect that from you. and your opinion matters, seeing that you are in the system. interesting....

thanks

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. I think it's a violation of privacy

I support schools searching kids for weapons and other controversial issues when the safety of the kids is involved. But I don't see how drug testing makes kids safer at school.

You might not be able to get your kids out of being tested. But you should at least let them know you disagree with the policy.

[seabeyond]

33. the thread has helped me clarify my issue. these are kids. still under parents supervision.

they are not adults, or professional athletes. i understand the problem. but the issue should not be handled in an adult manner. random drug testing. they arent adults. if they have concern for a partiular child, and all adults should be aware of signs, then they should be addressed thru the parent.

they are handling this like they do adults. they are not adults.

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. That's exactly what you should tell the principal. And the school board.

The school is overstepping its bounds here, IMO.

[seabeyond]

35. thumbsup. thanks. i appreciate it and all that helped

me to get where i was bothered with this.

[rucky]

36. Wow. Your middle school can afford coaches?

And drug tests?

[seabeyond]

38. they are the p.e. teachers, math teachers, science and there is an athletic program

for 7th and 8th grade. this school has 5th thru 8th.

as far as the drug testing program i dont know who implements it, who decides or how often they do it, if they do it, or if it is just a threat that they can do it, as a deterrent.