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guardian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 08:48 AM
Original message
Bureaucrats gone mad in Oregon
Can we get just a little common sense these days. With all the problems in the world 'THIS' is what some anal retentive idiot decides to spend his time (and taxpayer dollars)??? Assholes like this inspector should be fired.


http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/portland_lemonade_stand_runs_i.html

Portland lemonade stand runs into health inspectors, needs $120 license to operate


It's hardly unusual to hear small-business owners gripe about licensing requirements or complain that heavy-handed regulations are driving them into the red. So when Multnomah County shut down an enterprise last week for operating without a license, you might just sigh and say, there they go again.

Except this entrepreneur was a 7-year-old named Julie Murphy. Her business was a lemonade stand at the Last Thursday monthly art fair in Northeast Portland. The government regulation she violated? Failing to get a $120 temporary restaurant license.

Turns out that kids' lemonade stands -- those constants of summertime -- are supposed to get a permit in Oregon, particularly at big events that happen to be patrolled regularly by county health inspectors.

"I understand the reason behind what they're doing and it's a neighborhood event, and they're trying to generate revenue," said Jon Kawaguchi, environmental health supervisor for the Multnomah County Health Department. "But we still need to put the public's health first."

Julie had become enamored of the idea of having a stand after watching an episode of cartoon pig Olivia running one, said her mother, Maria Fife. The two live in Oregon City, but Fife knew her daughter would get few customers if she set up her stand at home.

Plus, Fife had just attended Last Thursday along Portland's Northeast Alberta Street for the first time and loved the friendly feel and the diversity of the grass-roots event. She put the two things together and promised to take her daughter in July.

The girl worked on a sign, coloring in the letters and decorating it with a drawing of a person saying "Yummy." She made a list of supplies.

Then, with gallons of bottled water and packets of Kool-Aid, they drove up last Thursday with a friend and her daughter. They loaded a wheelbarrow that Julie steered to the corner of Northeast 26th and Alberta and settled into a space between a painter and a couple who sold handmade bags and kids' clothing.

Even before her daughter had finished making the first batch of lemonade, a man walked up to buy a 50-cent cup.

"They wanted to support a little 7-year-old to earn a little extra summer loot," she said. "People know what's going on."

Even so, Julie was careful about making the lemonade, cleaning her hands with hand sanitizer, using a scoop for the bagged ice and keeping everything covered when it wasn't in use, Fife said.

After 20 minutes, a "lady with a clipboard" came over and asked for their license. When Fife explained they didn't have one, the woman told them they would need to leave or possibly face a $500 fine.

Surprised, Fife started to pack up. The people staffing the booths next to them encouraged the two to stay, telling them the inspectors had no right to kick them out of the neighborhood gathering. They also suggested that they give away the lemonade and accept donations instead and one of them made an announcement to the crowd to support the lemonade stand.

That's when business really picked up -- and two inspectors came back, Fife said. Julie started crying, while her mother packed up and others confronted the inspectors. "It was a very big scene," Fife said.

Technically, any lemonade stand -- even one on your front lawn -- must be licensed under state law, said Eric Pippert, the food-borne illness prevention program manager for the state's public health division. But county inspectors are unlikely to go after kids selling lemonade on their front lawn unless, he conceded, their front lawn happens to be on Alberta Street during Last Thursday.

"When you go to a public event and set up shop, you're suddenly engaging in commerce," he said. "The fact that you're small-scale I don't think is relevant."

Kawaguchi, who oversees the two county inspectors involved, said they must be fair and consistent in their monitoring, no matter the age of the person. "Our role is to protect the public," he said.

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leftofcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yes, we must protect the public health........
those little crumb crunchers may have a bit of dirt on their hands (sarcasm)
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ParkieDem Donating Member (417 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
2. Good lord.
Like it or not, stuff like this gives "liberals" a bad name. See, we just want to exert more and more bureaucratic control over your lives!

Seriously, though, these bureaucrats surely have something better to do than go after some 7 year-old's lemonade stand.
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
3. Time to make the popcorn
There is another perspective on this, as I suspect this thread will reveal.

BTW, "bureaucrat" and "bureaucracy" are not bad words. It's how we get things done to serve the public interest. When it doesn't work right, that's not bureaucracy--it's the failure to live up to what bureaucracy can, and should, be.
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leftofcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Extra butter, please and let's see what happens here.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. No, it's how things DON'T get done, or get done such that it enriches
Edited on Fri Aug-06-10 09:25 AM by ixion
the same group of folks over and over. Buying a house is a great example of bureaucracy run amok.

While in theory a bureaucracy can make sense, in practice, it is usually non-sensical, as we see here.

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guardian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. spoken like a bureaucrat
bu·reau·crat (byr-krt)
n.
2. An official who is rigidly devoted to the details of administrative procedure.


The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
bureaucrat <ˈbjʊərəˌkræt>
n
2. an official who adheres to bureaucracy, esp rigidly
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NV Whino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
4. Let me get this straight...
A $120 piece of paper will guarantee the safety of the consumers.

I mean, what do you do, wave it over the lemonade and say, "All better now. No more germs"?
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leftofcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Hell, I can do that without the paper.
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Stargazer09 Donating Member (625 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. No
It won't guarantee the safety of the consumers, but it will buy off the inspectors.
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Stargazer09 Donating Member (625 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
6. Poor kid
Those "health inspectors" should have looked the other way in this case. Jerks.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
9. Protect the public my ass
they're little control hounds flexing muscle on their turf, and one of the reasons I don't care much for bureaucrats.
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guardian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Yes. I'm surprised the inspector didn't call in his buddy from zoning
to harass the parents about zoning violations of running a commercial operation from a property zoned residential. And then OSHA needs to come in and fine them for not being ADA compliant. And then the Department of Labor should prosecute them under child labor laws. Then the IRS can come after the little girl as she didn't file a tax return or a W-9. It could go on forever.

I bet this whole neighborhood is a hotbed of crime. With a little investigating you could probably discover an unlicensed 'babysitting ring' too.
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. When you have a lot of poorly written laws, one of two bad things can happens.
Either the laws get enforced as the (wo)men inforcing them see fit. There's a lot of whim and caprice and ego involved then.

Or the laws get enforced even-handedly but are oppressive. There's often a lot of ego in this, as well, as the enforcers get their jollies from throwing their weight around.

The alternative is to have a restricted set of laws. The downside is that those we hate and loathe get by with things that we hate and loathe. It's better to be capricious or totalitarian, many believe, than tolerate things we find intolerable.

Since we can never allow discretion--perhaps something the tolerant could never tolerate would happen and society wouldn't be perfectly regulated--we go for zero tolerance policies. Sure, it hurts the innocent, but nobody's ever really innocent.

When we see something happen that is too intolerant and unjust as the result of a law, the impulse is to rewrite the law from 1 page to 300 pages to make sure that we've covered every possibility and contingency, while allowing no discretion to the enforcers. Of course, we're not omniscient, so we screw it up; people react in unpredictable ways, and we decry their unconscionable response to our wonderful plan to order and control a society and make it truly free, and so we need to write more laws to achieve our goals. Eh. Naturally governmental and regulatory oppression is the consequence of living in a free society. Freedom through tyranny. It's a common fallacy when you get things turned around. The question is in the definition of "freedom."
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. That's the point. The PTB want everything so complicated that you could be harassed for anything.
Most regulations are a corporatist scam.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Exactly. Spot on...
on the nosey!!

On all counts. :applause:
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JBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
11. Interesting looking at the County regulations on this -
http://www.mchealthinspect.org/tempfood.html

She wouldn't need a license if she was serving coffee or tea, and wouldn't need a license to run the lemonade stand for a closed group (like at a church picnic).
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
15. the PTB don't want us peons thinking we can start our own businesses.
Edited on Fri Aug-06-10 05:16 PM by Odin2005
They don't want competition, even if it is from a kid's lemonade stand.

In the capitalist system as it actually exists the PTB have their politicians enact "regulations" are primarily for protecting the oligarchs from competition, any positives are mere side benefits and/or PR.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. How do you think food inspections are paid for?
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. Taxpayers. Why?
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-07-10 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. They come out of licensing and permit fees
Edited on Sat Aug-07-10 02:21 AM by depakid
Read what the teabagging bozo's have to say in their usual spam about the story in the Oregonian's comment section:

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/portland_lemonade_stand_runs_i/4053/comments-8.html

The vitriol is impressive (and impressively stupid) -which is why the Oregonian trumped up the story in the first place- to rile them up.
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
17. post only 4 paragraphs
not DU OK
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
19. What the knee jerk government haters miss is the fact that this is public event
that draws a sizable crowd. Vendor at these events get licenses. That's how it works, whether you're a little girl or a 40 year old woman.

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guardian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. "vendor" at a "public event" my fuzzy ass!
It's a goddamn lemonade stand run by a 7 year old. Get a fucking grip. We don't need government officials 'saving' the public from oversweetened lemonade, or telling kids they can't put a playing card in the spokes of their bicycle because it's a "safety hazard" or violates a "noise ordinance".

Anyone who wants to control other people to that degree is a pathetic little worm with no life of their own.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. You get a grip with the ridiculous libertarian hyperbole
Next thing you know, you'll be telling us that food vendors in street carts shouldn't be inspected and have permits. Next it'll be restaurants.

Read the story you posted. No one's interested in front lawn lemonade stands.
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guardian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Apparently YOU can't read
Jon Kawaguchi, environmental health supervisor for the Multnomah County Health Department was "interested in front lawn lemonade stands". IMO Jon Kawaguchi is a pathetic overbearing little worm bureaucrat with no life of his own.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Of course he's going to say that
In practice, it's not going to happen- as the inspectors themselves noted.

The only reason the issue got raised at all was that this was a business at a public event- where all the other businesses are expected to have permits.
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Didn't you read the bleeping article you posted?
This was a Last Thursday event. Since you don't know anything about Portland, it is a large public event that draws hundreds of people.

It's a street fair. Ever heard of food contamination?

These aren't kids selling lemonade on their front lawn; there are numerous food carts and cafes and restaurants there.

Plus, your source is The Oregonian, not exactly the last word in news. It's a crappy newspaper.

Do us Portlanders a favor and don't criticize something you know nothing about and post it on DU hoping to score right wing points.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #19
29. Bullshit. It's a bunch of kids with a lemonade stand.
I don't "hate government", I hate bureaucratic stupidity that requires KIDS WITH A LEMONADE STAND to get a fucking permit. That's bullshit.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
21. This is the kind of stupid shit government will do...
... when it's too lazy to do the important shit - like promote the general welfare.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. Yep- making sure that people don't get food borne illness doesn't promote the general welfare
Guess that's why there's recall after recall in the United States, and millions of people with food poisoning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foodborne_illness_outbreaks_in_the_United_States#2009
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