Currently, There Are Only Two Methods For Creating Jobs In This Economy

[Yavin4]

1. Institute a massive federal jobs programs and employ people directly.

2. Create massive trade tarriffs on goods and services from overseas.



On point 1, Nothing else can or will create jobs at this point. You can cut taxes on the wealthy to zero and throw in free oral favors, and that won't create any new jobs.

A massive new federal jobs program, if done correctly, would not only stimulate the economy, but it would also reduce the deficit in the long run if the jobs were in areas that would lead to increased savings. For example, employing people to ensure that federal buildings and other properties are energy efficient would lead to increased government savings over the long haul.

Additionally, a federal jobs program could entail building more schools and keeping them open year round which would lead to less crime.


On point 2, massive tarriffs on imported goods and services would lead to inflation, which would be a good thing since the biggest economic threat facing us is deflation. Globalization is a hoax. It's nothing more than currency gamesmaship. China cannot be a world economic super power and pegged their currency to below the dollar.

Even the threat of tarriffs may push China into appreciating their currency which would open their markets to our goods.

[dkf]

1. We already had a great big infrastructure program.

Asking for more in the light of our huge success or lack thereof makes me laugh. Are we capable of doing this? My confidence levels are pretty low. That is what happens when you show poor results.

[ThomThom]

15. mostly what we did was give tax breaks

time to for some real stimulus programs, fast trains, green technology to start if all states and federal government departments bought electric vehicles that alone would create enough jobs to jump start our economy especially if they were required to be completely made in the USA.
on edit
the stimulus was a success, the economy would be a lot worse, don't fall for that republicon spin

[Donald Ian Rankin]

2. 2 is insanity. Hawley-Smoot was one of the main causes of the great depression.

1 is probably a sensible idea, though.

[lib2DaBone]

3. I dont disagree.. but why would it be a bad idea to ban cheap made in China Junk?

Multi National Corporations pay no taxes, build no factories, provide no jobs. If we stop them from bringing poison dry wall into the U.S., what do we lose?

How is Build American-Buy American a bad thing?

[Indydem]

4. I don't know...

Maybe because China holds a HUGE amount of our debt, can call that debt in at any time, and/or refuse to loan us any more.

If you want to bankrupt the country, go ahead and throw a tantrum and shut our borders to foreign goods; see how long we survive.

[Hannah Bell]

19. china doesn't hold a huge amount of our debt; and we don't need it to lend to us.

china holds $867 billion.

the government owes US workers three times as much.

http://www.ustreas.gov/tic/mfh.txt

the us doesn't need to borrow a dime from china; they do so because it's making money for elites.

[ThomThom]

21. they would be foolish to call in debt even if they could

the debts are being paid now they have no complaint. If they sold off debt to other countries it would just hurt their bottom line so that is not going to happen. What is going on is that foreigner are having to buy up American assets to spend those US dollars which is pushing up values and taking more money out of our country. We need a balance in trade. We need to make something to sell to the world besides weapons,mortgage backed securities and McDonald's franchises.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

5. Because everyone else responds in kind. N.T.

[Hannah Bell]

20. whole different scenario when multinational corps (rather than domestic corps)

dominate the global economy.

[Donnachaidh]

10. I'd rather see our government STOP incentivizing offshoring and start taxing

offshore profits made from American companies. They want tax breaks? Then start firing up production in THIS country and we'll give them a few.

Then we can start reviewing all these NAFTA CAFTA treaties and start walking away from the ones that screw the middle class.

[hfojvt]

6. your theory of the Great Depression comes straight out of Reaganomics

I have studied lots of economics and the only place I ever saw the GD blamed on Smmot-Hawley was in Jude Wanniski's classic of Reaganomics "The Way the World Works"

[Indydem]

7. Or the state department...

"The Smoot-Hawley Tariff was more a consequence of the onset of the Great Depression than an initial cause. But while the tariff might not have caused the Depression, it certainly did not make it any better. It provoked a storm of foreign retaliatory measures and came to stand as a symbol of the "beggar-thy-neighbor" policies (policies designed to improve one's own lot at the expense of that of others) of the 1930s. "

http://future.state.gov/when/timeline/1921_timeline/smoot_tariff.html

[Raineyb]

18. Do you really expect the State department of a government that is

invested in the theory of free trade to say otherwise?

[hfojvt]

22. same difference. A state department staffed by free trade ideologues

from Reagan, Bush SR, Clinton of NAFTA and China's MFN status, and Bush JR. Exports were a mere 8% of GDP even in 2006. To say that a tariff war had a huge impact, does not seem to be reality.

[Donnachaidh]

11. whoops

busted :rofl:

[ThomThom]

23. I don't get that. Most countries but us protect their important industries

and good paying jobs. What is busted is that we do no protecting at all, in fact we are a give away to the rest of the world. For us to have people in IT that can't find good jobs is ridiculous.

[Raineyb]

16. Jude Wanniski being the one who gave the Republicans the "Two Santa Clause" theory where

when Republicans are in power they cut taxes up the ying yang while spending like drunken sailors then when Democrats are in power cry, wail, and render sackcloth over the deficit.

Odd that people would try to avoid tariffs. They work fine in China which still uses it. Do people really think that China lets our country export goods into their country to compete with their manufacturing? Hell no! They slap a big fat tariff on foreign goods. They don't even let foreigners own companies in their country without a Chinese partner (and you can bet the partner maintains controlling interest) Free trade is a farce and as long as we refuse to recognize this we will continue to devolve into neo-feudalism.

[Yavin4]

13. Actually, It's Not.

Today's world is much different from the world of Hawley-Smoot. China and India are growing their economies be deliberately lowering the value of their currencies on the open market which is creating a deflationary economic spiral in the U.S. as our consumers curtail spending.

Tarriffs are inflationary, which may be a good thing in this economy.

[ThomThom]

17. I agree with the above(lib2DaBone) tariffs are imporant to protect American jobs

and industries. We will have a real problem if we had to fight a real war like WWII and all of our manufacturing is done by China or other countries out of our control.
We need to bring back good jobs, if companies don't want to hire and manufacture here then they should pay to us cheap labor with tariffs if they want to market their products to us.
Th Great Depression was not caused by tariffs, the depression was caused by the same things that brought our country to it's knees under the last 4 Presidents, deregulation, speculation, and bubble economies.
If we want to have a real economy we have to make something not just hamburgers.

[Elwood P Dowd]

26. Why do DUers keep posting this BS?

International trade was only about 4% of GDP when Smoot-Hawley was passed AFTER the beginning of the Depression. International trade eventually dropped to 2% of GDP, but then all trade was falling. DIdn't make any difference if it was international, interstate, intrastate, or intraneighborhood. Smoot-Hawley had almost NO effect on the Depression. This is a republican/corporate talking point to push more job-killing free trade shit that only benefits the filthy rich corporate CEOs and investors.

[county worker]

8. I had a thought. If everything that any federal, state or local government purchased was

made in the US, that might create a demand that would increase manufacturing in this country.

Any state, or local government that uses federal dollars on services and items from outside the US should lose those dollars.

Our county buys cars made overseas. I would only want cars that were mostly made from parts built in this country.

[Booster]

9. Somehow our government needs to figure out how to

tax corporations that have outsourced jobs to the point that it would be less expensive for them to bring the jobs back to the U.S. Now, a lot of corporations are even subsidized for doing business overseas and that is just insane. Add in the fact that these same corporations have their headquarters in places where they don't even pay taxes is even more insane. You would think these same corporations would figure out that if Americans don't have jobs then they can't afford their stupid products/services, etc., but they are so damn greedy they don't seem to care.

[Newest Reality]

12. I don't see any political will

or action to indicate enacting measures that will do anything substantial in bringing about a true "recovery" that will revive and enrich average folks.

It is my opinion that, for a multitude of reasons, the so-called economy is now in the process of a permanent transition. That process will obviously include a plethora of boondoggles. By necessity, the spin and outlook will continue to maintain a convincing facade designed to obscure a progressive collapse, (for most of us) as long as possible.

There will be much calls for hope and there will be plenty of change, but none of that will succeed in resurrecting the system as we "knew" it. To make situation this clear, (other than by acts of omission as well as commission) might be essential to those of us on the common level of life, but it would also hasten that collapse.

This is a pivotal time. Living is going to be very different from the non-sustainable orgy we have known. The only question is how it will proceed and how we can survive it. The only optimism I can find is that there is a minuscule potential for adaptability and creativity in moving away from the oligarchy and finding a more direct way of life. Sadly, I think that the powers that be will do everything they can, (with the great resources they have obtained riding the people's backs) to interfere with, exploit, and control what is about to emerge.

[Yavin4]

14. I Agree With Your Assessment And If A Republican Takes Over the WH...

They will simply not count the long term unemployed in the U3 number. They'll create a new U category and count them there.

[bvar22]

24. "And everybody has a share," shouted Milo...

...as the American Planes began dropping bombs on their own base!


Protectionist?
DAMN STRAIGHT,
because some things are worth protecting!

BULLETIN:
There is NO such thing as "Free Trade".
There is NO such thing as a "Free Market".
There is NO Giant "Invisible Hand".

The RICH made that shit up, and used smooth talking politicians to SELL it to a gullible America.
CAPITAL will ALWAYS be able to outrun Human Rights, Labor Rights, and Environmental Protection.

If you Work for a Living, do NOT trust ANY politician (Democrat or Republican) who espouses a dogmatic (religious) belief in Free Markets, Free Trade, or a Giant Invisible Hand.
That politician is NOT you friend.

[JoeyT]

25. I wish I could rec this more than once.

It's not as if we couldn't build public support for #1. It wouldn't be hard to drag out a ton of stories of people killed and homes destroyed by our rapidly crumbling infrastructure, and draw parallels between our electrical grids, green energy, phone systems, internet, etc and the rest of the modern worlds'.

Who wouldn't be in favor of faster and cheaper internet, reliable phones, less brown/blackouts, long term sustainability, better roads, safer bridges, and dams/levees that don't fail catastrophically? Besides elected Republicans. But they're against ANYTHING useful.

Any steps towards #2 would be even easier to sell. "Your jobs were shipped overseas. We're going to fix that."

[RainDog]

27. Great thread. n/t

[Hawkowl]

28. Tariffs used to finance the ENTIRE US government

Until the income tax amendment was added to the constitution. So tariffs could result in more American made goods and jobs AND reduce taxes!