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don't tell me america's economy isn't a planned economy. all economies are planned.

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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 01:25 PM
Original message
don't tell me america's economy isn't a planned economy. all economies are planned.
some "planned economies" are tightly and centrally controlled, sure. but all economies (at least, where government has any meaningful power at all) are planned, because government can choose to enact OR NOT TO enact policies that heavily influence the course of the economy.

we made a huge decision when fdr created the works programs and the social safety nets. this had a dramatic effect on the course of the economy because it was a plan for attracting workers to america, creating a strong middle-class consumer sector, and so on.

we made a huge decision when eisenhower created the interstate highway system. this had an enormous impact on our ability to delivery goods within the country, helped populate the non-costal regions, and boosted popularity of automobiles, in turn creating urban sprawl.

we made a huge decision when kennedy promised to put a man on the moon and return him safely to earth. that commitment (especially the second part; we take it for granted now, but at the time, a different president might have asked for volunteers to give their life for the mission) led to the invention and enhancement, directly or indirectly, of everything from pop-tart wrapping and freeze-dried food to long-distance phone calls, microchips, and cordless tools. businesses jumped on all these free inventions and innovated tons and tons of consumer and business goods.


we made more huge decisions when reagan decided to bust patco, denounce unions, tell regulators to back off, to approve mergers, and so on. as a result, we have seen steadily decreasing labor bargaining power, lower wages and benefits, and greater and greater business consolidation and excess.

we made more decisions when clinton continued the rush toward free trade, further eroding labor's power and thereby keeping profits high and inflation low and the dollar strong.

we made still more decisions when shrub decided to piss away trillions on tax cuts for people who already didn't know what to do with their wealth and on wars with no military purpose, serving only to fund a hulking military industrial complex. laid the groundwork for the coming idiotic decisions to slash the budget and our social net. this will further trash the middle class and leave businesses to find a new, burgeoning consumer base in india and china.



perhaps none of these decisions were made by a group of people with a "plan" for the economy, but as they say, to fail to plan is to plan to fail. decisions like these have a major impact on the course of the economy and no one can just dismiss their impact by with any crap about the "free market" or "capitalism" or whatever you want to call it.

business plays on the field created by government. businesses aren't going to play football if the government creates a baseball field. government can LEAD.



if government gives massive aid to the poor, businesses will develop to figure out how to better delivery goods and services to poor people in order to extract that extra disposable income.

if government puts a high tax on luxury yachts and cars while subsidizing green technology, then businesses will tend to stop developing specialty, high-end, limited production, gas-guzzling collectors items for the ultra-rich and start developing more and better environmentally-friendly cars.

if government supports unions and discourages outsourcing and puts limited protective measures on imports (particularly from countries with governments providing their own heavy subsidies), then it will put unemployed people here back to work and help rebuild our middle class.

if government reaffirms regulations and ensures they are enforced aggressively by people committed to the law, then our economy will produce more honest advertising and more safe, quality products.


republicans don't believe in letting the market decide, no matter what their rhetoric says. they believe heavily in government funding and support for businesses, they just have a different plan. they like the oil industry. they like the military industrial complex. they like the ultra-rich, and they don't give a crap about the rest of us. they plan for an economy that suits their constituents. they send the military around the globe to ensure and extent our control of oil. they weaken workers and benefits to keep profits up for the ultra-rich. they shift tax burdens from the rich to the poor and cut support for the poor.

what kind of economy do you want?
what do you think government can or should do to encourage that vision?

me, i want economic justice. i want real competition among businesses, not just a few behemoths offerring virtually identical products, differing only in branding. i want rich people to have to earn their wealth. i want the government to guide the economy to ensure that all americans are taken care of. not as a "nanny state", but as a moral duty to its citizens. i want a military that protects us and ensures a peaceful nation and, where sensible, world, but not one that simply extends private business interests. i want there to be a cost to anyone who injures (e.g., by pollution) an uninvolved third party -- a cost that reflects no only the actual damage but also a penalty for failing to get consent.

i want the government to create and economy that works for all americans, not just the ultra-rich.


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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. The basic assumption of business being superior to the individual was made in the 19th century,
That has determined our trajectory ever since.
:kick: & R

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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. and i don't think the timing near the freeing of the slaves was coincidental
after the slaves we freed, the ruling class of the former slaveowners went in search for a way to reassert their authority over others. they found their path in business and a nearly continuous consolidation of power.
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Newest Reality Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. Good to see that you
are answering the wake-up call.

You have only just begun and what you can learn by looking deeply into the projections of The Simulation will shock you and make you dizzy, and, if you are not careful in how you word your realizations, it might even alienate you.

Congratulations on some good hits.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. It's in capital's interest for people to believe the economy has its own, random life, & layoffs
& racheting down of workers' wages is an unfortunate but unavoidable occurrence, with no one to blame but the workers themselves -- for not being skilled enough.

lol.
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. not sure if "unfortunate" is the right word -- it's part of the plan.
Edited on Fri Aug-06-10 02:11 PM by unblock
that is, it's not an unfortunate consequence, it's an intended consequence.

if capitalism were working the way it's "supposed to", then anyone with a good idea and enough gumption would easily have or be able to get the financial resources to give it a go. instead, many great ideas that people have can't possibly get off the ground without finding an ultra-rich sponser who will charge majority (and then some) ownership and control for their involvement.

that's what adam smith would call a "barrier to entry" and a disservice to the economy as a whole.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. it's intended, but it's not in capital's interest that people think so. they should think it's an
unfortunate side effect necessary for the greater good.
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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
4. But by whom?
I would say that the chief planners of the American economy are the Waltons (no, not John-boy's family, Sam's spawn). They plan for millions of people to buy the crap they import from China, they plan to pay their employees next to nothing, and they plan to keep as much of the profits for themselves as possible. So far, the plan is working and they didn't even have to run for office.
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Ozymanithrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
5. Piss poor planning isn't a command economy. n/t
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. agreed, it's not tightly controlled. but it is planned, poorly.
when republicans talk about "planned economies", what they mean is tightly, centrally-controlled economies, such as china.
but that doesn't mean that our economy isn't planned. they just like to pretend it isn't.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
6. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
7. Not just planned. Micromanaged.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
8. Got yer planners right here.


"One of the things that is interesting about reading conspiracy theory is that much of what folks think is conspiracy is really many people acting in concert to make or protect their money." -- Catherine Austin Fitts.
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EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
9. An unplanned economy is called anarchy.
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-10 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
14. The invisible hand is the false god they make people believe in.
It's a bunch of crap. Trying to tell people that who might benefit from that myth is like trying to deprogram a brainwashed cultist. Hell, my brother and cousin are out of work and have been for months and they *fight* me on this shit constantly.

I want an economy that provides everyone with the needs for life, education free, and time to pursue skills and talents. People should be able to do what they are able and happy to do, instead of being crammed into tight little boxes trained only to labor to provide obscene profits for a few.
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