RIP, Reverend Falwell.

[jobycom]

I can't say I'll miss your opinions or really much of anything you've done. But you tried to do your version of right. And like you or hate you, you were a giant presence in the South where I grew up.

RIP. The world is different now. Some will say better, some will say worse. It doesn't really seem like the time to debate that, though.

And condolences to your friends, family, and admirers.

Flame away. I don't really care what others think.

[KennedyGuy]

1. Thanks..

Like you..I will not miss him or his views, but this dancing on his grave bit is disturbing and will be used to define all of us.
I was always taught to set an example for those I disagreed with.
Some of this is beyond distastful.

[BOSSHOG]

2. God Bless you Jobycom

Its hard to trash a dead man. He's gone, let us wish his family well. We can deal with his legacy later, as well we should. Thanks for posting this.

[wicket]

17. Amen

n/t

[galileo3000]

3. Well Said. Peace

We need those that disagree with us to make our country strong and to show how serious we are to embrace our enemies. Perhaps if we learn to love those who hate us, others will realize that we are not so doomed.

[BuyingThyme]

4. I'm with you, Jobycom.

:thumbsup:

(Except for that part about the time to debate.)

[mudesi]

5. If there is a hell, he's burning in it

http://www.hatecrime.org/subpages/hatespeech/robertson.html

He doesn't deserve respect during life or after life.

[jobycom]

9. I don't believe in Hell.

I believe a person creates their own hell on Earth by choosing to fill their lives with hate.

[shenmue]

30. The fact that he ran a university makes my blood run cold.

Think of all the young minds he ruined with his hate.

[StarryNite]

31. I agree

He deserves no respect. I don't understand how some people all of a sudden respect a vile person once they are dead. He chose to live the life of a hypocrite, so why should we feel the need to show him respect now that he's dead. He was a terrible man.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

6. ...

[devilgrrl]

7. Jerry died with a lot of toys - he won!

:sarcasm:

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

8. Peace

that is the key. Hatred tends to backfire back upon the individual doing the hating. Perhaps that is why wise people from many different traditions suggest that we do not judge, but instead forgive. My condolences to family and friends.

[TankLV]

11. My condolences to the VICTUMS OF HIS HATE!

May THEY rest in peace...

[Gormy Cuss]

12. Forgiveness frees the giver, not the person who did harm.

Hatred on the other hand harms the hater far more than it harms the corpse of person who caused much pain in his life. I agree with you that there may be great wisdom in the traditions that focus on forgiveness.

I can not say a kind word about the man, but he holds no power over me to invoke hatred at a time when those closest to him grieve. To do so would make me feel as hateful and spiteful as the man himself.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

22. Wehlan tahlan minesuna, Ehlan patsam min bisha

Might be misspelled, but this is Aramaic for the part of the Lord's Prayer that says, "Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us." In retreats dealing with the Lord's Prayer, I have learned that the Aramaic is actually saying something more like this: "Loose the ties of resentment and anger I have with another, and loose those ties he has with me." When you are angry or resentful of someone, you are emotionally binding yourself to that person, and if the anger and resentment builds, it can be very difficult to break the tie.

[TankLV]

10. Oh my god - WTF?!?!

The man is pure EVIL.

THE WORLD WAS WORSE OFF FOR HIM HAVING BEEN BORN!

Would you eulogize HITLER, too?!!!

For godsake...

The man was pure filth, scum...

[jobycom]

16. Hatred is the problem, never the solution. nt

[TankLV]

19. Here's your fucking compassion...

http://onepeoplesproject.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=75&Itemid=29

Save it for somebody who deserves it...

Hatred IS the problem... and the poster boy for it was FATWELL/FARTWELL...

Fuck him...

[treestar]

85. Let's see how Fallwell felt about it:

From TankLV's link above:

In 1984 Falwell took a shot at the gay-oriented Metropolitan Community Churches, calling them "brute beasts" and "a vile and Satanic system" that will "one day be utterly annihilated and there will be a celebration in heaven." When gay activist Jerry Sloan confronted him on this, Falwell denied the allegations. When Sloan insisted he had a tape, Falwell promised $5,000 if he could produce it. When Sloan did, Falwell refused to pay, and Sloan successfully sued. Falwell appealed, with his attorney charging that the Jewish judge in the case was prejudiced. He lost again and was forced to pay an additional $2,875 in sanctions and court fees.

[jgraz]

13. HEY LOOK AT ME!!! I'm much more compassionate than you are!!

No thanks. I'm glad the evil fucker's gone. Save the self-righteousness for sunday school. :puke:

[jobycom]

18. Project much?

:shrug:

[jgraz]

20. Psychobabble much?

I'm sick of all these "let's be nice" posts that appear every time some inhuman monster finally kicks it. Let's at least acknowledge that fact that this guy was a walkiing horror show and his death means one less advocate for ignorance and hatred.

[jobycom]

24. You attacked me.

I didn't criticize you or say you couldn't attack Falwell, I posted a sincere statement about my feelings. You attacked those feelings, calling them insincere. If you've got an issue with Falwell, say what you feel you gotta say about him, but attacking me showed you have other issues.

So I repeat. You're projecting onto me. You felt threatened by my post, which did not criticize you or anyone. You attacked me, not Falwell. That's projection. I could analyze further, say you are a decent person who is not comfortable being filled with hate, who then sees a post from someone not displaying such hate, and you felt wrong, so you challenged the sincerity of what I said, so you wouldn't have to feel bad about your own feelings. But I don't know you well enough to say that. All I can say is that I attacked no one in my post. And you attacked me for it. Something caused that. Projection, is usually the culprit.

I wasn't trying to "be nice." I was saying what I felt.

[jgraz]

34. In fairness, you did say "flame away" ;)

But honestly, I don't understand the motivation to go to a liberal board to post well-wishes to someone like Falwell. The guy was pure evil and he got rich off of poisoning our society. I really can't see what drives posts like yours, other than the desire for an ostentatious display of self-righteousness.

When we finally cure AIDS, will someone post an RIP HIV eulogy?

[Moochy]

53. You nailed it

Ever heard of the Sadducees? They seemed to love public acts of piety too.

[CreekDog]

65. Moochy, now you are implying that Joby is dishonest and insincere

Not quite enough for you to simply disagree with Joby regarding a simple RIP message. You don't have evidence that it was a pietistic act.

Take it back unless you can prove it.

Lest you become the thing you hate.

[Moochy]

74. Prove it? hmm nah.

Lest I put you on ignore for presuming to know the things I hate.

[jobycom]

54. Fair enough. :)

However, I can honestly say I don't understand the motivation of going to a liberal board and expressing hatred for someone who has just died, and who's friends, families, and supporters are still grieving in shock. We've all gotten our blows in against Falwell, and we'll do so in the future. Today is not the day.

And let me try to explain my post. It isn't that I have a sudden fondness for Falwell, although, and I don't know how to explain this, I do have a sense of loss over his passing, if just because he was such a large part of my southern upbringing. It's that I have a respect for people going through the grieving process of losing a loved one, or even an admired figure. No matter the person, no matter the grievers, that process itself is universal. Karma, the Golden Rule, and the essence of every great spiritual endeavor based on a respect for human decency dictates that we don't treat other people going through this process in ways we wouldn't want to be treated ourselves. We should have enough respect for humanity to not attack a man on the day he passes, no matter how much we dislike him.

It has nothing to do with "ostentatious self-righteousness." It has to do with human decency and human interconnectedness. As an atheist, it's all I believe in.

[jgraz]

78. Do you really not understand the motivation to villify a twisted, evil bastard?

However, I can honestly say I don't understand the motivation of going to a liberal board and expressing hatred for someone who has just died, and who's friends, families, and supporters are still grieving in shock. We've all gotten our blows in against Falwell, and we'll do so in the future. Today is not the day.

Today is absolutely the day. Those friends, family and (especially) supporters share in his evil legacy. They had a chance to stop or at least impede this psychopath and they didn't. In fact, they likely benefitted from the wealth he accumulated through his message of hate. If our celebration causes them even more pain, then I say "good on us".

Maybe there is some innocent little child who loved Falwell and is hurting right now. In that case, I suggest her parents keep her from logging on to DU.

[jobycom]

92. It went right over you, huh?

That's fine. Feel good about your hatred. You just lose the right to be taken seriously when you complain about Falwell doing the same thing you do, only to different targets.

[shenmue]

29. Me too.

Name me anything Falwell ever did to show the love of Christ.

Can't do it, can you?

[Guaranteed]

38. Well, your "gladness" is fucked up.

It is nothing but fucked up to be glad when someone- anyone- dies.

[jgraz]

43. Why? Justify that knee-jerk assertion.

I defy you to do it without resorting to "how your momma raised you" or "what Jeezus says".

[Guaranteed]

49. He was human. He was weak and subject to primitive mentalities.

He did a lot of fucked up things, just as we all have. But, you've done bad things, haven't you? Have you ever said something that made someone else feel bad? Maybe you've even done it more than once.

It is difficult for people to gather the strength it takes to rise above hate and do only what is compassionate and right. But we have to try if we're going to make our world better. That's the principle, and you can apply it wherever it seems appropriate.

[Maven]

70. No, sorry.

WRONG.

He was an active agent of HATRED. He sowed hatred and conned millions.

How dare you even compare the grotesque nature of this man's entire legacy with an average person "making a few mistakes."

How dare you? I find posts like yours disrespectful of the millions that bigot hurt--directly or indirectly, but INTENTIONALLY--during his lifetime.

[jgraz]

75. Sappy, pious claptrap

"He did a lot of fucked up things, just as we all have."

No, not like we all have. I don't equate my speeding on the way home or snapping at my girlfriend once or twice with cheering on gay bashers and abortion clinic bombers.

"But, you've done bad things, haven't you? Have you ever said something that made someone else feel bad? Maybe you've even done it more than once."

Not like Falwell, I haven't. And when I've done it I had the decency to feel good and ashamed of myself. I didn't build a multi-million dollar industry around it.

"It is difficult for people to gather the strength it takes to rise above hate and do only what is compassionate and right. But we have to try if we're going to make our world better. That's the principle, and you can apply it wherever it seems appropriate."

I can almost hear the organ music playing. This whole schtick, complete with the salvationist "rise above" language, is a holdover from bronze-age superstitions. Practically, there's nothing immoral about rejoicing in the death of an asshole, any more than it's immoral to work on the sabbath or take the lord's name in vain. In fact, publicly villifying someone after their death may even have a deterrent effect on other evil shits who worry about their "legacy".

If this is what you need to do to feel like a good person, go for it. As for me, I'll concentrate on doing things that actually make a difference.

[RetroLounge]

82. No it is not...

it's actually called for in this case...

RL

[Left Is Write]

93. You know...

Jerry Falwell bears a huge responsibility for the culture of conservative Christian fundamentalism that has permeated our country and our government today. Why should we mourn his passing?

[Xenotime]

50. Why all the fucking hatred!?!

[jgraz]

83. Which part of "evil twisted homophobic pig fucker" don't you understand?

[BlooInBloo]

77. No me! I wish he was alive so I could wash his feet! LOLOL!

[mitchum]

14. EWW...

Eat Well Worms

Good riddance to that grifting scumbag

[Phredicles]

15. Bon appetit, worms!

Eat hearty, eat well...

[firefox_fan]

40. Yum.

[Javaman]

21. he was born, he stole lots of money from people and like everyone else

no matter how much crap you collect in your life you still leave the earth naked.

ewwww that was a thought that just made my brain hurt.

you can't take it with you no matter how hard you try.

I want to see how many people now fight over his will.

:popcorn:

[EFerrari]

23. If you don't care what others think, why post the thread?

:crazy:

[jobycom]

25. Same reason everyone posts threads

To say something. I don't care what others think about what I say.

Did I attack you? If so, how? If not, why attack me?

[EFerrari]

26. I'm not. It just makes no sense to me to post a thread

and get replies you aren't interested in. If you aren't interested in the replies you get, to whom are you posting? I thought we were have conversations here but that's silly. DU also likes shouting matches.

[jobycom]

32. Eh, good questions.

DU is also good for graffiti, at times. :)

[Swamp Rat]

45. Exactly!! ...

:D

[CreekDog]

62. There are hundreds of posts against Falwell

What's the harm in a handful that just wish him Rest In Peace?

No one is lauding the man, just wishing him eternal rest.

Big deal. Stop jumping all over people for this simple sentiment in the face of the great equalizer --death.

Those that want to celebrate his passing, go for it, but you don't have to jump on people that just want Falwell to RIP to have your celebration.

[EFerrari]

63. Jumping? I asked a question. And I for one don't wish him

eternal rest even if I believed in such thing.

[Jack Rabbit]

27. Thank for posting, Jobycom

Falwell was morally ambiguious, just like the rest of us.

Next time one of our heroes passes on, no doubt some Freepers will be making tasteless remarks on a thread and dancing in the streets. Let's see if the most shocked at their celebrations aren't the same people flaming you here.

For those with nothing to say about Jerry Falwell now that one wouldn't want somebody to say at his own funeral, I extend an invitation to join me in a long, long moment of silence.

[Bluebear]

33. Falwell was MORALLY AMBIGUOUS?

Oh, Lordy.

[EFerrari]

48. You know, today I wish I was a true believer just to know that

the good reverend is going to his just reward. But, I don't have that comfort unfortunately.

[Moochy]

89. You are not fortunate enough to be a person of faith

Purportedly said by Karl Rove when asked about his Atheism. :)

[EFerrari]

46. Wtf?

Morally ambiguous? No, he wasn't.

[Arugula Latte]

47. Falwell was morally ambiguous, just like Stalin was a little misguided

And the KKK is a little confused. :eyes:

[bullwinkle428]

64. "Hitler was good in the beginning, but he went too far"

-Marge Schott

[Jack Rabbit]

88. Addressing Bluebear, sfexpat and Oregonian

Jerry Falwell was morally ambiguous. I would say that about Hitler, Stalin and members of the Ku Klux Klan as well.

In Hitler's case, for example, he liked children and animals; he was not a coward and was decorated for his service in World War I. He was a self made man and, while not the genius he fancied himself to be, he was a talented artist.

I'm sure Jerry Falwell had his fine points. There are people who could actually stand to be around him. It is my understanding that Teddy Kennedy was among them, so at least the pastor when to be hospitable to a guest and put away trivial matters that separate them.

I am not of Jerry Falwell's faith. I don't believe in original sin, and there is little empirical evidence to support its opposite. Thus, the human condition is moral ambiguity. Every one is morally ambiguous: Each of you, me, Hitler, Mother Theresa, the Grand Dragon, Martin Luther King and Jerry Falwell.

To call any one morally ambiguous is standing on safe ground, and there I stand.

[shenmue]

28. He tried to do his version of right?

I'm sorry, there's nice and then there's pushing it.

He tried to ruin people's lives.

The things he did to gay people in this country, and abortion rights...

:grr:

Come on. Stop handing out the warm fuzzies and stand up and say when people are just wrong.

[jobycom]

39. Okay.

People who are bashing a dead man on the day of his passing while his supporters are grieving are just wrong. :shrug:

[Maven]

71. No, you're wrong.

How nice for you that you were able to look upon that man's actions and beliefs, and the actions and beliefs he inspired in his followers, with "disagreement" or even chagrin. How nice that you weren't a direct target of his hatred.

There is a difference between wishing someone dead and simply acknowledging the fact that the WORLD IS BETTER OFF without him. I never did the former--but don't you dare tell me I should be ashamed for doing the latter.

[jobycom]

90. You should be ashamed of it.

You've made the world a lesser place. That should shame you.

And you know nothing of me if you think I wasn't the target of his hatred.

[Maven]

95. Well, I'm not, Yoda.

I'm not ashamed of telling the truth, and I'm not so soggy with my own schmaltz that I can't be honest about how I feel.

Incidentally, guilt-peddler, you're sounding more and more like someone we all used to know! How appropriate.

Turn down the violin music and come back to reality.

[Catherine Vincent]

35. RIP, Rev. Falwell.

n/t

[AspenRose]

36. May God have mercy on his soul.

That's all I have to say about that.

[Guaranteed]

41. For sure.

I mean it, too.

A just God is a merciful God.

[firefox_fan]

37. So, how can one tell if somebody is NOT trying to do his/her version of right?

Seriously...

[RetroLounge]

42. Hey look at ME, I am Compassionate!

and I don't care what other's think, but don't attack me, boo fucking hoo.

What a load of horse shit...

When an asshole dies, what you have is a dead asshole.

:puke:

RL

[Guaranteed]

44. And we remain who WE are, as well. nt

[jobycom]

57. And

when an asshole posts, what you have is a posting asshole.

[RetroLounge]

80. That is true

But I wasn't going to be so harsh about your OP, but since you mention it...

But I don't know you well enough to think of you as an asshole.

Jerry Falwell, by his words and deeds was indeed an asshole, and I am not sorry he is dead, and I will not show some fake compassion for some fake period of time. I hope the evil bastard burns in his version of hell.

But you feel free to eulogize him. enjoy it...

:hi:

RL

[Madspirit]

51. What a Crock

Hitler tried to do his version of "right" too. Big Fucking Deal. I'm a lesbian. Falwell thought I should be dead. Falwell accused ME of being responsible for 9/11. Falwell said AIDS was God's punishment for being gay. Falwell can rot in hell.
Lee

[StarryNite]

52. If I were to say

anything nice about Falwell, that's when I would become like him, a hypocrite. I will not do that.

[Guaranteed]

You don't have to say nice things. But you can show compassion. nt

[StarryNite]

66. If I were to "show" compassion

for him then I would be a hypocrite just like he was. I feel no compassion for him. We all die. Some people live good lives and others are terrible people. Falwell was a terrible excuse for a human being. He had not one humane bone in his body. Sorry, I just don't feel compassion for him. My bad.

[Guaranteed]

55. nt

[Guaranteed]

56. nt

[depakid]

60. That's about right

I pretty well wish for he AND his family about what they'd wish for me or most any DU'r.

Seems to me we all know what that would be.

[Maven]

72. Thank you.

That one word sums up this thread: hypocrisy.

[Zenlitened]

58. What a disturbing post.

"...you tried to do your version of right..."

That can be said of Charlie Manson, too. Talk about moral relativism. :wow:

[zulchzulu]

59. What does the "P" in RIP stand for...

I'm thinking puke.

[CreekDog]

61. Everyone is entitled

If Joby wants Falwell to RIP that is Joby's decision. I think that is the respectful thing, since we are all equals in the face of death.

As for Jerry's eternal fate, he said he believed, as other Christians do, that he would only get to heaven on Jesus' merit. His own goodness or righteousness alone would put him in hell. That applies to the rest of us too.

I didn't agree with Falwell on anything and I do think in particular, his statements on South African apartheid were very destrutive. Nevertheless, I do hope he RIP and that his family is comforted.

[JitterbugPerfume]

67. thank you Jobycom

I have such respect for you today (and always);

and I am embarrassed by the behavior of some of our fellow DUers.

[sheerjoy]

68. Bless your heart.

You make me happier to be a Christian today.

[Seabiscuit]

69. RIP??? Falwell deserves an eternity of something not remotely resembling "peace".

[Kurovski]

73. I pray that his family

comes to Jesus and recants the thieving corporate con that Falwell created. I pray his son disavows it and turns away from such dangerous charlatanism.

I pray that his followers come to see Jesus as well, and stop tossing money to con artists who prey upon their loneliness, desperation, fear and hate.

Then I will express wishes that they be comforted in any grief.

There are lessons we all learn in life, and the important ones rarely come easily. Sending ten bucks to a gyp-Jesus, power-mad, money-hungry hypocrite does not grant one a shit-bit of grace.

There is compassion, and then there is merely being a tool, a masochist, an enabler, and a pretender to deep feelings.

Give me twenty years or so and I might come to love my abuser.

But not now, and never, never will there be respect.

[Mr. Ected]

76. He Came, He Soured, He Cankered

We may all just be mammals. We all may just be human beings.

But we are judged by our words and by our actions.

This man tormented those he disagreed with, and used God as his shield from reality.

My judgment of him took place a long time ago. If there is such a thing as Judgment Day, Mr. Falwell will now know whether he was tormenting the right people.

[karlrschneider]

79. I wouldn't dance on his grave.

I would piss on it, though...
:D

[Deja Q]

81. I wish I saw your post before I posted mine.

There is no better way to say it.

[RetroLounge]

94. Falwell wished you DEAD...

What the fuck are you doing defending him?

RL

[theHandpuppet]

84. Is this really what "the South" admires?

"But you tried to do your version of right. And like you or hate you, you were a giant presence in the South where I grew up."

One could also say that of Nathan Bedford Forrest. Or George Wallace. Or David Duke. Want to eulogize them, too, for their "giant presence in the South"? For the legacy of hatred and bigotry with which they smeared and twisted Southern hearts and minds?

Sorry, but I'd prefer to save my tributes to those who have truly contributed to the legacy of "the South" -- men like Jimmy Carter or Martin Luther King. But then, in your own words it's obvious you "don't really care what others think." That statement in itself says a lot about why you made this post, doesn't it.

[misanthrope]

86. Food for thought**nm

**

[brettdale]

87. Because of Falwell

Falwell helped Bush get elected twice and now thousands of people are dead, its a clear cut FACT, the world would of been better off without him.

[Rex]

91. I don't care that he died, so what.

And I don't give a dam what people think either.

[bugbones]

96. Good luck, Jerry

You'll probably need it.