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If politics is a game,what might game theory say about democratic politics?

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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 10:25 AM
Original message
If politics is a game,what might game theory say about democratic politics?
Edited on Thu Aug-12-10 10:26 AM by HereSince1628
I'll assume that the political arena contains only 2 parties and that politicians may be be hardliners (H) or compromisers (C). For mathematical simplicity, voters who don’t vote are left out of this discussion, Now let’s assume that in response to their legislative performance voters expend their franchise in as much as they approve (+) or dissaprove (-) of their law-makers. As a consequence, political behavior may bring benefits (B) or costs (C) at the ballot box.

The payoff schedule here is that for the well-known HAWK vs DOVE game model and if you are inclined to do so you can explore that via the search engine of your choice.

In terms of politics the payoffs in this game would (under these admittedly very simple assumptions) yield the following:

Zero, for compromisers who always deal with hardliners. The hardliners earn the approval of their base
while the compromisers gain disapproval of their base.

B, for hardliners who only deal with compromisers.

0.5B for compromisers whose opponents are also compromisers (assuming equal winning and losing)

½(B-C) for hardliners who must deal with opponother hardliners


Knowing these payoffs might help to explain why one party would choose to be hardline (i.e. NO-P), in the face of a party that compromises and ends up being the party of Can’t Make It Happen.

It’s easy to see in the real world how a Compromiser may believe that they are being practicing pragmatic statesmanship within the legislature. Americans have traditionally been raised to believe this IS the American way.

Admittedly, this strategy does accrue benefits, and becauase benefites are equally shared, the party with the largest electorate should win the most elections.

But in recent decades, the dems, the party that polls with the largest base, hasn’t accomplished that. And, at least theoretically, it may be because the dems face opponents who are dedicated hardliners. If the electorate is evenly split (as it seems very close to being in the US) it is impossible to get around the reality that B > 0.5 B (What think tank fed Gingrich Game Theory???)

Why despite complaints from the electorate about deadlock in Congress, do the republicans seem unlikely to be moved to be moved by calls from democratic leaders for compromise. Because being a hardliner when the opposition compromises IS a much better strategy (atleast theoretically, and seemingly in recent practice)!

The strategy seemingly UNCHOSEN by the pragamatic democratics in Congress (but repeatedly called for by progressives)is to be hardline in the face of hardline opposition. This strategy will win so long as the democrats accrue more electoral benefits than costs at the polls. This is particualarly feasible when the proportion of the democratic base in the population is larger than the sum of swing voters and republican voters. This is a nation with a polarized electorate, is the swing vote really more important than the discourage portion of the democratic base?


Being a hardline Congressional democrat might result in little being accomplished during a session, but so long as the base approves of the legislative attempts, in theory, it seems to be at an advantage over pre-emptive compromise as was seen on HCR where the democrats electoral base was overwhelmingly approving.

And of course this game begs the question of the importance of the base, relative to the way elected officials percieve the importance of other social components to their political careers, such as their campaign donations, and corruption...
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jaksavage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
1. Chaos theory.
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. Not sure what you are trying to say.
this isn't a chaos theory based model.
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
2. Good Post. n/t
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
3. Computer games explanation for your quote:
"But in recent decades, the dems, the party that polls with the largest base, hasn’t accomplished that."

The electronic vote counters.

That is the main reality the Left ignores. It's as if they are on drugs as they deny the reality that the hardliners took over how votes are counted. They took over and they won, baby, won. And now the drug induced Left that refuses to accept that reality will get played again.
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Yes,
There the game is deliberately very simple, and a variety of factors/phenomena are left out,
but the idea of theory is to look simply, yet rigorously at a problem, and then see how it fits
empirical reality.

Game theory seems to explain more than the equally simplistic explanation of vote fraud.

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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. No, it doesn't
What drug are you taking?

It's not vote fraud, it is vote stealing via computers.

It is the reality that the left ignores. Like you do here: "...simplistic explanation... :puke:"
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Sorry, Mr Gibbs, I am not on any drug.
Vote fraud, vote stealing I'm sorry not to have made a distinction that honors your perspective.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. well
That's why you are underwater with your little game playing to describe why the RW has so much power.

And denial of that reality will mean they will steal again and again and have you looking, again, like you do here >>> over there.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
4. Just add electronic vote rigging to this and you've got American politics. nt
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. pls, see the above response to same concern
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
7. Excellent question. Wish we could explore it by playing Villagers & the Vampires.
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
12. Plenty of implications with this method
and it can get very complicated in short order. I suppose that's why consultants are paid so well.

I might quibble with parts of your setup, but yes, the basics are there and I think we can get some insight by fiddling with the numbers.

First of all, you can make the rewards and penalties asymmetric between parties. If one party has a high value/low risk reward in either of the two values, that will be the preferred option regardless of the other party's choices.

You can also add interest and a lot of complexity by including independent voters in the reward structure and assign penalty/reward based upon the number of non-cooperate instances. Rinse and repeat, over and over, and you can model a case where independents moderate a party's hard-line stance. Given the current political situation it would suggest that Democrats should develop stronger candidates against hard-line Republicans in areas where there is a good population of independents and that running any weak candidate in that circumstance minimizes the penalty.

Overall though, the setup you have here plays out very much like the other cooperate/don't cooperate models. One thing about them is that the results change if they are played recursively, usually suggesting that the best choice is to offer cooperation first, then to cooperate only with other cooperators.

And BTW, cheat/don't cheat can be gamed the same way with election fraud, especially when the risk/reward is very high and repetitions include a probability of getting caught.

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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Talking theory can quickly swamp people and is off putting for many
Moreover, discussion and interpretations built around it have all the limitations of theory emphasizing simplicity and generality for complexity, and specificity, etc.

My comment regarding election stealling as the respondent prefers to call it was simply directed to the point that making an assertion (even if it is true) is not particularly informative relative to either initial conditions or pay-offs.


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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Sure
Game theory has so much to offer and it's a great learning tool for understanding simple constructed relationships. Anyone not familiar with it wouldn't know that the inclusion of irrelevant factors (irrelevant to what you are attempting to model and not necessarily irrelevant to the real world) can quickly turn the whole exercise to mud.

I ran across a couple of online courses sometime back that might be of interest to DUers. For me it's been both a enjoyable refresher and a bit of new exploration:

One is from UCLA, "Politics, Strategy, and Game Theory"
http://academicearth.org/courses/politics-strategy-and-game-theory

and one from Yale, "Game Theory"
http://academicearth.org/courses/game-theory
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I'll be checking out that first link.
Thanks for that
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
14. It appears the Coach and the fans of his team aren't betting on the same team to win.
Edited on Thu Aug-12-10 01:47 PM by kenny blankenship
Other people can be suckers for that action, but I'll be keeping my money in my wallet. When I see a Coach who wants to win and who knows that means the other team has to lose, then I may feel safe again wagering my hard earned on his team.
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