Oakland teen accidentally shoots self to death

[marmar]

from the SF Chronicle:



OAKLAND -- A 15-year-old boy died after he accidentally shot himself in front of his younger brother at their aunt's home in West Oakland, police said Tuesday.

Markell Goodwin was playing with a handgun in a bathroom of the home on the 3000 block of Filbert Street when he shot himself at about 7:45 p.m. Monday, authorities said.

The shooting happened in front of the victim's 13-year-old brother, who was not hurt, said Officer Jeff Thomason, a police spokesman.

It was not clear where the gun came from or who owned it, but it did not belong to the aunt, Thomason said.

A police investigation is under way. No one has been arrested.


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/08/17/BAPH1EV9PR.DTL&tsp=1#ixzz0wuvesBdf

[Motown_Johnny]

1. where is that "do guns kill people" poll when you need it?

oh wait


here it is



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8952332

[Rage for Order]

2. Rule # 1: Treat every gun as though it's loaded

Until you are able to ascertain otherwise. Rule # 2: don't point a gun at anything (or anyone) you do not plan to shoot. Had this guy been taught these two basic rules of gun safety this wouldn't have happened.

[Electric Monk]

4. "Had this child been..." There, I fixed it for you. nt

[obxhead]

10. So being a 15 year old child is a valid excuse for not knowing how

to handle a firearm safely.

[JonLP24]

11. Yes

I didn't know how to properly handle firearm until I was in the Military. The point is someone needs to teach you the proper ways and I was taught by professionals. Maybe if it was class like driver's ed but even then it would only be an elective course.

[me b zola]

24. You joined the military at 15? n/t

[JonLP24]

34. Did I say that?

[me b zola]

35. Apologies

I misread your post to say that 15 year olds ought to know how to handle fire arms.

[Electric Monk]

13. It cost this one his life. Where do you draw the line? Kindergarten?

My dad taught me about handling guns responsibly in my early teens. Maybe yours did as well, I don't know. Not everyone gets that.

Should gun safety become part of the elementary school curriculum, in your opinion?

[obxhead]

16. Basic gun safety is never too early to start.

As early as possible you start with reinforcing the training that if you ever see one of these, don't touch it and tell an adult. As they age you can start with actually showing them how to handle one safely ie it's always loaded and you never point it at yourself or anyone else even if you know for a fact that it's not loaded.

For all the posters coming to flame me on my post(s).

Here's some absolute facts about the US and guns.

First there are guns in the US. Not all of these guns are accountable for. Even if you had a national ban on anything more powerful than a home made stick and rubber band slingshot, there will always be guns in this country.

Guns are a fact of American life and no law made can possibly ever change that.

So ask yourself this. If those facts are true, then shouldn't you teach your child what to do with a gun, even if you don't own one? It is likely your child will run into a gun at some point in their lives. What happens that day will depend entirely on the education and training they have.

Would you throw them the keys to the car at 16 never having been instructed before?
Talk to your kids about sex and use of contraceptives?
Teach your kids to look both ways before crossing the street?

[cleanhippie]

37. Puh-LEASE! I dare you to go to Oakland and call any 15 year old on the street a "child"....

Good luck with that.

[geckosfeet]

7. Had he not had a gun in hands it wouldn't have happened either.

[defendandprotect]

9. Hardly . . . the gun still might have gone off accidentally ...

Guns do kill people -- we need less of them --

[Pavulon]

14. Ignorance.. guns dont go off unless your booger hooker

is on the trigger. People lie and say they do, but no gun made in the last 30 years or so will.

[cowman]

15. Modern guns do not accidently

go off, chances are this kid was playing with it, possibly twirling it and pulled the trigger, bottom line, a kid is dead because of irresponsible playing with a gun. Such a tragic waste of life. How do you propose to make guns scarce? Confiscation, bans, if you try that, you will run into the Constitution.

[defendandprotect]

17. There are safety locks because they can be fired without intending to be ....

because often even experienced people have thought a gun was NOT loaded when it

actually was . . .

Experienced people can still be killed with their own guns -- happens all the time --

someone else handling it, with or without permission, and boom --

And, of course, we see that the NRA Congress tries to ensure that gun manufacturers will

be held accountable for none of it --

The effort to blame a teenager for a society which has been made gun nuts by the NRA and

right wing propaganda is shameful. We have more guns now in America than we have people!!







Modern guns do not accidently
Posted by cowman
go off, chances are this kid was playing with it, possibly twirling it and pulled the trigger, bottom line, a kid is dead because of irresponsible playing with a gun. Such a tragic waste of life. How do you propose to make guns scarce? Confiscation, bans, if you try that, you will run into the Constitution.

[LAGC]

30. Why should gun manufacturers be held accountable for negligence on the part of the user?

Can you say: frivolous lawsuit?

[defendandprotect]

31. They should be held accountable for the overall damage their guns do to society....

damage which every taxpayer pays for -- not much different from cigarettes --

Should manufacturers of any dangerous product simply walk away from the damage/costs?

[Pavulon]

33. Ford and Budweiser first. Then doctors

who dont get sleep. They all kill more than guns. The person on the trigger owns the act. No one else.

[Pavulon]

32. One less now. Illegal gun possession and stupid equal dead.

the morons want to make manufacturers responsible for stupid people. Pull trigger bang, dead.

The NRA has no bearing on this discussion. He was either gang banging or the aunt lied and it was her unsecured gun. Either way a criminal act.

How exactly is this relevant to breaching my civil rights?

[cleanhippie]

39. Whats with the end of your post? Seems like a legit statement to me.

Cowman is spot on. You, OTOH, are not even close.

[defendandprotect]

41. You don't see that the poster is trying to "blame the victim". . . ???

He even imagines how it happened . . .

... chances are this kid was playing with it, possibly twirling it and pulled the trigger, bottom line, a kid is dead because of irresponsible playing with a gun.

and proceeds based on his imaginings tries to blame the teenager for being "irresponsible."

Our society teaches young boys to be fascinated with guns, rarely showing the damage they cause.







There are safety locks because they can be fired without intending to be ....
Edited on Wed Aug-18-10 01:25 AM by defendandprotect
because often even experienced people have thought a gun was NOT loaded when it

actually was . . .

Experienced people can still be killed with their own guns -- happens all the time --

someone else handling it, with or without permission, and boom --

And, of course, we see that the NRA Congress tries to ensure that gun manufacturers will

be held accountable for none of it --

The effort to blame a teenager for a society which has been made gun nuts by the NRA and

right wing propaganda is shameful. We have more guns now in America than we have people!!

And then quickly switches into GOP/NRA fear mongering about guns being "confiscated" or

"banned"...

How do you propose to make guns scarce? Confiscation, bans, if you try that, you will run into the Constitution.

Rther, the answer to that is that we use our intelligence -- and understand that violence

only breeds more violence.

That innocent citizens like this young boy are frequently the victims -- and often family members.

Oftimes the owner will use the gun to commit suicide.

That we need to end the Drug War -- and the Class War --

Poverty breeds crime --








Modern guns do not accidently
Posted by cowman
go off, chances are this kid was playing with it, possibly twirling it and pulled the trigger, bottom line, a kid is dead because of irresponsible playing with a gun. Such a tragic waste of life. How do you propose to make guns scarce? Confiscation, bans, if you try that, you will run into the Constitution..

[cleanhippie]

43. I see what you are getting at, but....

cowman IS right about modern guns. As to whether he is "blaming the victim", I see your point, but since he was his own victim, the young man WAS irresponsible and did cause his own death. You can blame culture and society if you want, and there is some culpability there, but in the end, a 15 year old is old enough to know better.

Did you address his question? How do you propose to make guns scarce?

[defendandprotect]

46. No, you don't . . .

and/or ... you're being disingenuous --

Modern guns will still go off accidently -- which is why the gun industry doesn't

want to be held accountable for their product. And, why gun safety organizations

have fought for locks.

Evidently, "blaming the victim" is another concept you either don't understand or

prefer not to understand. NONE of us has any idea how this happened so anyone

pretending to know that the teenager was "irresponsible" in some way is alibing for

the gun loving industry.

You can blame culture and society if you want, and there is some culpability there, but in the end, a 15 year old is old enough to know better.

Granted -- everyone should have a fear of guns -- even those who keep them . . . because

they are often the victims of them. However, we haven't yet found it necessry to train

teenagers in our schools in how to handle a gun. GOP/NRA insanity has extended that far as

yet -- though I'm sure it would like to be in our schools.

A 15 year old, never having seen or handled a gun before, will rightly be curious.

And, that sad reality, is more likely the reason for his death.



Did you address his question? How do you propose to make guns scarce?

Did you read the post?

Perhaps you're preoccupied with trying to defend the gun lobby?


Here it is again --

How do you propose to make guns scarce? Confiscation, bans, if you try that, you will run into the Constitution.

Rather, the answer to that is that we use our intelligence -- and understand that violence

only breeds more violence.

That innocent citizens like this young boy are frequently the victims -- and often family members.

Oftimes the owner will use the gun to commit suicide.

That we need to end the Drug War -- and the Class War --

Poverty breeds crime --

[Rage for Order]

44. "Our society teaches young boys to be fascinated with guns, rarely showing the damage they cause."

Did this boy not have parents to teach him things as well? If one leaves it up to society to teach their children everything they need to know things will not turn out so well. My dad taught me gun safety when I was 8 years old.

[defendandprotect]

47. Do you know how many experienced with guns, trained in their use, use them

to kill themselves -- see their family members killed by them --

or friends or neighbors?

How many guns are stolen and used in crimes/murders?

You seem to be trying to suggest that parents are required to train children in

"gun use"? Preferably, most parents are trying to teach non-violence rather than violence!

And our schools the same!

Obviously, that doesn't suit the needs of the gun industry or those crazed with paranoia.

As we've seen from GOP/NRA gun propaganda -- and guns -- it has a negative emotional impact

on intelligence --

[cleanhippie]

38. Less what, people?

You are right about that part.

[Canuckistanian]

3. This is meaningless

He could just as well have accidentally clubbed himself to death.

This is just anti-gun propaganda.

[marmar]

5. selfdelete, I think I missed the sarcasm on second observation

nt

[Canuckistanian]

8. I don't use the smilie anymore

I'm a profesional.

[Pavulon]

12. Has not shit to do with me or my twice affirmed legal right to own a gun

supervise your fucking kids. If they drown in the pool, it is still not my problem. At least he only shot himself fucking with a gun he illegally possessed, probably stolen.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[proteus_lives]

21. Real story, posted here for propaganda purposes.

[SammyWinstonJack]

36. ...

:evilgrin:

[Crunchy Frog]

6. Well at least there's a reckless gun user who's

managed to eliminate himself before killing or maiming somebody else.

[flvegan]

18. I was either 6 or 7 when my father taught me about respecting guns.

I used to gaze into his locked, lit guncase and wonder what action those weapons had seen (23 years in the military, he had quite the collection). The history. Not once did I ever consider opening that case, not that I could, nor would I have ever "played" with a gun.

Thanks, Dad.

My heart goes out to the family of this kid.

[proteus_lives]

20. Same here.

Been shooting since I was a kid and I never disrespected firearms.

The first thing my father did was instruct me in ethics and safety and threw all that Hollywood bullshit out of my head.

I had full access to firearms from age 10 on and I never even thought of "playing" with them.

[proteus_lives]

19. Ban accidents. It's the only way we'll be safe.

[Vickers]

22. "playing with a handgun"

Dumbass.

[ConsAreLiars]

23. Of course, the irrationals will use the "every gun is human controlled, so every killing

is either a deliberate hit or an unfortunate miss," and so more gun training is the cure.
Apart from the fact that the number of such chances for bullets being shot is proportional to the number od dead, the faithful gun cultists might recall a few recent stories:

Police instructor shoots self during gun demo: http://www.oxfordpress.com/news/crime/police-instructor-shoots-self-during-gun-demo-645223.html

8-Yr-Old Boy Shoots Self at Gun Show: http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=6121915&page=1

NRA Instructor Shoots Student: What Can We Learn?: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dennis-a-henigan/nra-instructor-shoots-stu_b_680349.html

Marine shoots self while 'playing' with gun: http://www.jdnews.com/articles/gun-73094-deputies-marine.html

Just as dumbassed true believers as the religiously insane, facts don't matter, faith trumps reality.

(edit one typo)

[proteus_lives]

25. "Cultists"

The ignorance burns.

Shall I google-flood you with stories of firearms being used properly? Or will you accept that millions of Americans handle, carry and use firearms every day with no mishaps?

What other Rights are you eager to be rid of?

[ConsAreLiars]

26. Give it a try and an attempt at some insight.

Last I recall is ~60,000 killed, Correct me if that is off, Tell me about the odds of being killed by by guns in households with guns versus those without. The fact I might often accurately fire a round at an edge -mounted playing card has nothing to predict about the nest time I shot some target.

[proteus_lives]

29. How many killed by automobiles?

Give it a try and attempt some insight.

And once again, what other Rights will you gladly give-up?

[cleanhippie]

40. I smell a Kellerman reference coming,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[defendandprotect]

48. Gun damage isn't rare -- $38,000 per wounding -- and taxpayers pick up the bill for it!!

[LooseWilly]

28. Unfortunately, there are a lot of guns in West Oakland... and they're played with like baseball bats

in the nice suburbs...

15 year old might or might not have been involved with the dealers. Someone associated with the house was obviously involved with the drug trade, and there was a gun there. Irresponsible drug dealers/enforcers who don't teach gun safety (like irresponsible militia-ists who don't teach gun safety) is just one of those things that is part of being an American.

Welcome to some specifics of the gun death statistics.

Ironically though, the dealers in West Oakland do need guns to defend themselves from the other dealers in West Oakland, as well as dealers in East Oakland, or even Richmond, who might try to move in on territory.

As long as there is no other economic hope in the neighborhoods.... dealing is going to be popular. Unfortunately, with the crappy economy... the dealers are all going to be squeezed for customers (back in the dotcom boom... the dealers were loving life... there were users everywhere... and the dealers were tipping their cabbies driving them across town with their stores... serious recession leaves them with a lack of customers)... and when the dealers are squeezed for customers, the need for guns to protect customer retailing territory is going to be increasingly necessary.

Peripheral casualties will occur. Obviously.

Hopefully his little brother will be able to figure out a way to function, and figure out a way to pretend that school is a reasonable alternative for his life from whatever was going on that left a gun in their hands... I have a hard time imagining him managing to cope well enough to pick up much education amongst the absurdly over-populated 38-42 per class schools in Oakland after this sort of trauma... but I can hope. Maybe his brothers "rep" in the neighborhood (or whoever the gun belonged to's "rep") will be enough to help him shut the over-crowded classes up enough so he can actually learn something. Maybe.

[JonLP24]

42. +1000

I especially love this line "As long as there is no other economic hope in the neighborhoods...".

That is so right. It reminds me of a David Simon quote-For 35 years, you've systematically deindustrialized these cities. You've rendered them inhospitable to the working class, economically. You have marginalized a certain percentage of your population, most of them minority, and placed them in a situation where the only viable economic engine in their hypersegregated neighborhoods is the drug trade. Then you've alienated them further by fighting this draconian war in their neighborhoods, and not being able to distinguish between friend or foe and between that which is truly dangerous or that which is just illegal. And you want to sit across the table from me and say 'What's the solution?' and get it in a paragraph? The solution is to undo the last 35 years, brick by brick. How long is that going to take? I don't know, but until you start it's only going to get worse."

You and him are so right and I agree with everything else you say. In fact I haven't found anything you've said I disagree with and I know I've never said anything to you and you probably don't know who I am but I feel like my IQ goes up every time I read your posts. I've added you to my buddy list which seems like the only it's good for is journals which you don't seem to add to very often but I do read the entries you add. :hi:

[Javaman]

45. "There's one more kid that will never go to school. Never get to fall in love, never get to be cool"

One dead and the other fucked up for life.

some world we live in, huh?

[w8liftinglady]

49. my ex-husband shot a hole through our roof-in front of 2 sons

not everyone should have guns...luckily,it freaked him out enough that he locked them up.

[KamaAina]

50. If the 13-year-old had had a gun, too...

oh, screw it.