DLC vs. Dean: who wins elections?

[MannyGoldstein]

DLC ran the Democratic Party election years 1994-2002:
1994: Republicans took over both houses of Congress for the first time since the 1950s, blamed the Left
1996: Republicans maintained control of both houses of Congress but won the Presidency, blamed the Left
1998: Republicans maintained control of both houses of Congress, blamed the Left
2000: Republicans maintained control of both houses of Congress, lost the Presidency, blamed the Left
2002: Republicans maintained control of both houses of Congress, blamed the Left
2004: Republicans maintained control of both houses of Congress, blamed the Left

Dr. Dean took over for the 2006 election and was venomously attacked by Rahm Emmanuel and company. How'd Dr. Dean do?
2006: Democrats regained both houses of Congress
2008: Democrats maintained control of both houses of Congress

Now the DLC is firmly in control again. Any bets on the outcome in November?

P.S. There are a few footnotes to the above (e.g. one time the Senate was 50:50 but Cheney had the tie-breaking vote), but, to the best of my knowledge, it is all true.

P.P.S. I sure as hell hope the Democrats hold Congress. But I'll be fucked if I'm going to be blamed for the DLC flushing another election down the toilet. When FDR became President he screamed "Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!! I'M A FUCKING DEMOCRAT, I'LL DO DEMOCRATIC STUFF, AND MY ENEMIES ARE ASSHOLES!!!". Oddly enough, Democrats increased their majorities in the next elections. By 1936, only 17 Republicans were left in the Senate!!!

[OHdem10]

1. Present Democrats, work at appeasing the Republicans, even

passing right of center legislation.

[aquafina]

24. and the solution .......

......elect real Democrats

[emsimon33]

28. YES!!!!!

[MissDeeds]

45. Right you are

And welcome to DU!

:hi:

[obxhead]

53. Sometimes that's hard to do.

Look at Obama alone. I was positive he was going to be a real Dem.

Anyway, welcome to DU. :hi:

[liberation]

82. *yawn* so what is a "real" democrat.

There is always another electoral cycle, isn't there?

[Lorien]

104. Someone who acts like a Democrat by working to advance Democratic issues and principles

NOT someone who just puts a (D) behind their name then behaves like a repug.

[Cal33]

66. I must agree with you. Can anyone deny that Reid and Pelosi

were afraid of Bush when he was in power. They're afraid of the Neocons
even when the Neocons are out of power. As for Obama, is he naturally
right of center, or is he also afraid of them? Does he realize that, through
his appeasing them, he is aiding and abetting them in the financial and
moral crimes against the American people?

[liberation]

87. Reid and Pelosi are both neo-liberals.

There is nothing "progressive" about a Mormon fundie from a red state like Reid, and a moneyed socialite like Pelosi. We need to come to grasps in this country with the concept of class: Pelosi and Bush for example, both belonged to the same class the very wealthy. Pretending a socialite is going to go against her interests and will start supporting progressive egalitarian policies is beyond naive. But that is basically what the Dems are requesting from progressives: to literally stop using their brains and to accept a narrative which has little connection with reality.

Neo-liberals and Neo-Conservatives share a majority of ideological leanings, they simply differ in the methods required to achieve their shared goals. The American citizen has been proverbially played for a fool for the better part of the past 4 decades with this bullshit game of good cop/bad cop between the "new" Dems and the GOP.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

90. +1

[Gidney N Cloyd]

2. "Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican..."

"Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for the real Republican all the time" - Harry S Truman

[MannyGoldstein]

3. Indeed

Besides that, it's all the Left's fault.

[readmoreoften]

7. +1. I think they're a worse problem then Republicans. I'll take real enemies over false friends.

I can fight my enemies. False friends are more cunning, more deadly.

[BEZERKO]

46. I think it's time to start triangulating against the DLC.

It's more complicated than what the DLC does in triangulating against the liberal caucus, but it can be done.

[Lorien]

105. That's not the quote.

"Given the choice between a Republican and A DEMOCRAT who acts like a Republican, people will choose the Republican every time"

[MannyGoldstein]

4. Wow. The Unrec-ers have strong powers tonight!

But I have a nice Merlot!

[havocmom]

5. They can't take the truth and they live to try to bury it. Poor miserable souls.

The truth is it was Dean's methods that Obama's team employed to win in 08, and on the slip-stream of the momentum Dean created for the party nationwide prior to 08. It is fact, for all the world to see.

And they are blowing it big time, but you are right, they have already designated the left as the scapegoats.

Enjoy your wine. Living well is the best revenge :hi:

[MannyGoldstein]

10. Wow! Here comes the calvary!

The unrec-ers tend to use their ammo all at once at the start of a thread. All of the sudden, we're up to 8 recs!

[havocmom]

12. The unreccers don't grasp that they are a small little group

and the majority of us are left of center and damned feisty about bullies.

[MannyGoldstein]

14. But they're quite effective.

They seem to all hit at once right after a post goes up - very effective at sinking the thing.

[havocmom]

16. meh If we keep things kicked for a spell, the majority has time to come through for truth

A peek at the Greatest Page generally shows the left for truth is a majority around here, despite all the noise.

[sabrina 1]

And just like their DLC heroes, they have failed,

If we lose the majority we worked so hard to get with Dean's leadership I know who I will blame and I will be pretty damn angry about it.

They may think they are setting the left up to blame for their failure, but that will not work. Everyone knows that it was Dean who won for Democrats in the last two elections.

If we lose in November, we know whose fault it will be. There will be zero doubt about that.

K&R they cannot even win a rec/unrec contest, how can they win an election?

[Ignis]

48. Gosh, that almost sounds like a coordinated effort.

:think:

I Really Can't believe they'd go to such trouble.

[kenfrequed]

47. Yes.

I have noted it too. There is a concerted effort by a bunch of them to watch the threads and dump un-recs the moment they pop up. If the recommendations stay low enough these people can knock threads down low on the page. I believe the same people run around recommending celebrity nonsense and trivial BS.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[QC]

11. They always fade very quickly, though, since they're so few. n/t

[glitch]

33. Not strong enough... :) nt

[MissDeeds]

44. I'll add my rec

And raise a glass of sauvignon blanc to you, MannyGoldstein! Howard rocks!!!

K&R



:toast:

[ozymandius]

97. I am used to those assholes.

Political alignment is only as intellectually deep as their allegiance to their local sports franchise.

Lefty sheep and righty sheep are spawned from an identically motivated sphincter.

[Bryn]

6. K&R

"by 1936, only 17 Republicans were left in the Senate!!" Wow! If only our democrats would act more like democrats! (example: Blanche Lincoln and Mike Ross)

[asdjrocky]

8. Howard Dean has been missed, and dis'ed.

Never apply common sense to politics, I've found it gives me a headache Manny.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[havocmom]

15. Firmly convinced the DLC likes majority ping pong with GOP

gives them an excuse not to do anything the base of the party wanta done. Months of snark in response to constructive criticism have shown that.

With Gibbs latest snit fit, it is clear they already have their designated scapegoats.

They fool no one but themselves and they look mighty sad with their hand wringing while they fail to use the majority WE gave them.

[PufPuf23]

17. Neo-liberals and Neo-cons are the Good Cops / Bad Cops of 21st century American fascism.

Neo-liberals and Neo-cons differ little in foreign, economic, and domestic social policy.

The Left are easy scapegoats but their views are the source of innovation and and the seeds of otherwise certain hell on Earth.

[disillusioned73]

29. Need to be re-posted;

"Neo-liberals and Neo-cons are the Good Cops / Bad Cops of 21st century American fascism."

Bravo!!! :toast:

[bvar22]

18. Funny how that works.

The DLC New Team
Liberal Democrats Need NOT Apply

(Screen Capped from the DLC Website)

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=254886&kaid=86&subid=85

There are those here who will try to convince you that the DLC no longer exists,
or that it has no money or influence.


"By their works you will know them."

[havocmom]

19. DLC is gone

Like Blackwater is gone. Rebranding in hopes of losing an earned bad rep ;)

One of the big problems in America is TOO much marketing and not enough change.

[NorthCarolina]

68. They prefer the term "New Dems" now. Same ol' shit BUT with a new and improved label! eom

[caveat_imperator]

76. I prefer calling them "Bad Dems".

[liberation]

83. I am partial to the "Old Republicans" moniker myself...

... because that is basically what they are: a bunch of right wingers, too chickenshit to register republican now that their preferred brand is tarnished beyond repair.

There is also the issue of moderate conservatives like Emmanuel, Obama, Clinton et al... who went democrat mainly by default. Not because they agreed with traditional FDR Dem progressive values, but because of the GOP's traditional contempt for their kind (Jews, blacks, and other minorities, strong women, etc). Since they could not bring themselves to join the GOP, they simply decided to turn the Dem party towards their preferred conservative persuasion. Actually Mrs. Clinton was actually a registered active republican at some point...

The rest, as they say, is history....

[AlbertCat]

75. The all look pretty "old" to me.

How can you have a "new" team full of decades old players?

[Overseas]

20. K&R Already! Millions of people crossed over and voted for the Party of FDR.

We need more Democrats to rise up and take back the party mantle. Exposing Republican lies. Undoing the disastrous plutocracy their policies have established here. Rebalancing our lives with just a bit more economic justice.

The Right has hated FDR for decades and worked on undoing his legacy.

Too many Democrats were bought out in the meantime.

We need them to remember their civic duty to put the country's needs above their own screaming need for millions in campaign donations (bribes) to continue their work.

These are perilous times.

[Dr.Phool]

21. Kick and Rec. I stand with Dr. Dean.

[The Green Manalishi]

60. +1

Me,too
K&R

[Stinky The Clown]

22. K&R For Doctah Howie for DOIN' IT and Mistah Manny for sayin' it.

[Waiting For Everyman]

26. +1

[jgraz]

23. Dean CRUSHED IT in 2006

Rahm and Dean went to war with each other in 06, with Rahm's DCCC supporting overtly corporatist, right-wing Democrats over Dean's picks. In many cases, Dean's candidates won primaries over the DCCC darlings and went on to win in the general (Jerry McNerny, Keith Ellison, John Hall, Carol Shea-Porter, etc, etc, etc).

Rahm's candidates -- like Tammy Duckworth -- fared much more poorly. If only DCCC candidates had won that night, the Pukes would have held Congress. And if only Dean's candidates had won, we still would have taken Congress.

In short, Rahm is a disaster as a political strategist. Anyone who listens to him is, to borrow a quote, "fucking retarded".

[MannyGoldstein]

25. According to the DLC, Dean LOST in 2006

Clinton mouthpiece Carville said Dean showed "Rumsfeldian incompetence" in the 2006 election:

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/washington/washington/entries/2006/11/15/carville_says_d.html

[jgraz]

32. According to the DLC, monkeys are flying out of my ass.

Fuck those lying shitbags.

[YOY]

50. And we got one right down below us spouting his usual!

n.t.

[liberation]

84. You damned progressive hippies and your insistence in trusting your lying eyes!

Seriously, what is wrong with you! Take a shower hippie, right after the mandated lobotomy. And you'll embrace the "new and improved" talking point reality.

[nashville_brook]

30. eggsactly.

[Yukari Yakumo]

27. Complete obliteration.

Karma for the so-called "change". :grr:
Probably not enough to lose either the House or the Senate, but possibly close.

However, I'd gladly lose Nevada in a heartbeat.

Personally, I hope Dean runs either in the primaries or as a third party candidate in '12.

[patrice]

95. He has already said he won't and as much as I love him. I'd fight him if he threw

MEDICARE REFORM under the bus.

[Yuugal]

31. K&R

[Laelth]

34. k&r for The Good Doctor. Well said. n/t

-Laelth

[midnight]

35. The Dr. knew what needed to be done.

[Ysabela]

36. Dean / Grayson 2012! n/t

[amborin]

37. K&R

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

38. They both win elections

(Maintaining those victories is another matter). It's just that one of those 2 turns around and completely fucks us with their "Reagan Democrat" bullshit. Guess which one that is. We need a good 30 or 40 Alan Graysons and Marcy Kapturs to start turning this around.

[Eyerish]

39. K&R

[laughingliberal]

40. K & R nt

[nashville_brook]

41. kicking just for the hell of it.

[SlingBlade]

42. These guy's are Democrats ?

Who Knew ?

[Ignis]

54. Inasmuch as that word is in the name of the organization, yes.

In all other ways? :shrug:

[NJmaverick]

43. Incorrect the DLC is not in charge, rather many of Deans followers

are now working against or have abandoned the Dems. I am pretty sure the results of those actions will be less than beneficial to our nation.

[BlueMTexpat]

69. On just what do you base the statement that "many of Deans (sic)

followers are now working against or have abandoned the Dems" anyway?

I am a dyed-in-the-wool "Deaniac" and very proud to admit it. I recognize several from DFA heydays who are among the most positive and prolific contributors to DU. Believe it or not, we continue to work in the trenches and most of us will do so until our dying breath because we understand exactly what's at stake - even though we also acknowledge disappointments along the way. I am personally affiliated with ADACH (American Democrats Abroad - Switzerland) because I reside in that country. Right now, I'm in Maryland and a big "O'Malley-Brown" sign is in the front yard of the house where I stay because I asked to have it put there.

It does sound as if someone wants to blame "the left" for something again - already.

[Winston Wolf]

106. "And When You Hear Something Like That...

...the left side of the brain turns to the right side of the brain and says, "It's dark in here, and we may die." - Lewis Black

Yeah, it was DEAN that called the Left, "Fucking retarded." Oh yeah, it was DEAN that suggested that those on the left that take issue with Obama's right of center policies should be drug tested.

Thank you for such a well thought out and articulate response. How constructive of you.

[Ignis]

49. K&R

Thanks for speaking truth to power, Manny. :patriot:

It's amazing how many assholes-in-Democrats'-clothing would rather see Dean fail than Democrats succeed.

[Kermitt Gribble]

51. K&R! The Dems could have made republicans extinct

after 2008. Instead, they play up the illusion of bipartisanship, embolden the republicans, and bring them back from the brink so they have a shot at winning seats this year. That tells me the 2 parties (the leadership, anyhow) all play for the same team and need each other to support the good cop/bad cop dog and pony show.

[metapunditedgy]

56. Not just *Republicans* but *Republican policies*. With all the momentum Obama had,

we could at least have come very close to a single-payer solution, to name just one example.

We could have had some real change in this country, and instead... we're still stuck playing red vs. blue.

[kenfrequed]

59. Well.

It was in the DLC's interest to carry the repukes an extra couple of rounds and help them get pumped up.

If the repukes and gone down harder then who the hell would the 'Democrats Loving Corporatocracy' triangulate with?

[NuttyFluffers]

52. this is important. reminds me of the saying about those who ignore history and all...

time to stop bickering with known failures. until they can prove their case (and they cannot), what's the point letting them create divisive fissures within the democratic party? qui bono?

[myrna minx]

55. I stand with Dr Dean. K&R n/t

[LaPera]

57. I always stand & support the brilliance & perception of the great Howard Dean

The DNC isn't the necessary powerhouse as it was under Dean's leadership to aggressively stay on top and attack the republicans deceptions and their usual onslaught of lies, smokescreens & smears - The DNC is NOT suppose to be just about simply raising money - Tim Kaine runs the DNC like a lost ship floating aimlessly.

I send my donations instead to Howard Dean's Democracy For America {DFA)
http://www.democracyforamerica.com /

[Melissa G]

58. "Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!! I'M A F***ing DEMOCRAT, I'LL DO DEMOCRATIC STUFF...

When we actually act like Dems and stand for what we believe in. WE WIN!!!

[Wednesdays]

62. Is that a verbatim quote by FDR?

If so, I've got even more respect for him than I did before!
:rofl:

[David Zephyr]

61. We have Kobe Bryant sitting on the bench while amateurs are running & ruining the Democratic Party.

Howard Dean is a proven champion at winning elections, at building the party from the ground up, at energizing the base and at grooming and helping candidates win.

It's like having Kobe sit on the bench while high schoolers play.

[DFW]

63. One other thing we did in 2008 of minor importance

We also took the White House. Sometimes, we even act like it.

Rahm is an emotional hothead. Howard is cool as cucumber, ten times smarter, and, at this point, has absolutely NOTHING to lose.

Rahm made sure Howard was excluded from the Obama administration completely. Not too swift on Obama's part to let him get away
with it. Not only did the Obama administration miss out on Howard's very welcome voice speaking out on their behalf, but they
cut him loose from any inhibition he may have had from letting loose with both barrels when he had something to say. It is no
coincidence that Howard is in HUGE demand by Democratic (or similar) parties overseas for advice on how to energize their
base and start to win elections.Look at what just happened in England. Don't believe for a second that Nick Clegg came out
of nowhere. The man from Burlington was there advising him, and instead of being a footnote, Cameron can't govern without Clegg.

So, if progressive parties outside the USA think they need Howard's skill and advice on how to organize and win, HOW COME THE
DEMOCRATS HE LED TO VICTORY 2 FOR 2 IN THE USA SUDDENLY DON'T?

("Curiouser and curiouser," cried Alice........)

[EFerrari]

64. Well done.

:loveya:

[GreenTea]

65. Fuck the corporate philosophy of the DLC & Dems need Howard Dean back as leader of the DNC!!

[Cal33]

67. A very good and valid point.

[Kurovski]

70. K&R. (nt)

[valerief]

71. DLC -- Democrats Lose Congress. nt

[arikara]

72. Well as an outsider (Canadian) observing your politics

it looks like the game plan is to lose. Because they actually did win last time and then they had all kinds of excuses as to why they couldn't do what the people want. If they lose a few seats, their job to look after corporate interests will be far easier. So other than a few good people like Kucinich and Dean, there really is no difference between the parties.

This by the way holds true for the Canadian government too. The opposition has had many opportunities to bring down the government, but they wont because the neo-Conservatives are doing exactly what the so-called left would be doing anyhow. Which is no doubt why we have such apathy in the political process here in Canada.

[freebrew]

73. I'm with Howard....

screw Rahm..

Oh yeah, K & R

[Enthusiast]

74. Nice one, MannyGoldstein! K&R nt

[eleny]

77. Democratic Liability Central

K&R MG!

[derby378]

78. Howard Dean knew how to get shit done

I think there were probably too many entrenched Party veterans who got scared at the pace with which shit was getting done and got cold feet. The DLC was never on board with Dean to begin with because Dean refused to kiss Al From's ass.

[hulka38]

79. FDR held no illusions. n/t

[Greyhound]

80. They are, and always have been, the fifth column within The Democratic Party.

They came into being as St. Raygun was finishing his reign of destruction to proselytize the myth of supply-side, "open" trade, and general corporate dominance over our nation.
:kick: & R

[Dr.Phool]

81. Yeah, all those conservative dems that switched to Reagan in 1980.

Then they turned around and blamed Carter's defeat on liberals, progressives, and "Professional Leftists".

They know how to revise history for sure.

[Octafish]

85. Same mindset.

The self-interested mindset, a form of economic solipsism. They may hear "win-win," but it's always "mine-mine."

[Greyhound]

107. The DLC was founded in 85, specifically to bring "conservative values" into the Democratic Party.

Nice try though.

[BrklynLiberal]

86. Makes me feel very nervous about November...VERY nervous...

With a 60/40 majority in the Senate, it was like pulling teeth to get anything done.

I cannot imagine what it would be like with fewer Dems.

[liberation]

88. It is very easy to imagine: it will be exactly the same with fewer Dems.

The GOP and the Dems have for the most part a set of shared goals, they simply differ in their necessary MOs to achieve these goals.

Dems approach is very simple: there will always be another electoral cycle. If they are in the minority, they will tell us we need to elect more Dems to gain majority and then things will get better. When they have the majority and it is clear things are not getting done, then we're told we need to elect more "real" (or "better" which is really funny if you think about it) Dems and then things for sure will get better. If then we elect more of those "real" Dems and the hubris is still too obvious to ignore, then we will have to elect more "doubleplusbetter" Dems... and then, tripleplusbetter, and then we will be told that unless the Dems have a 99 vote tally in the Senate with quadplusmorethanawesomesuperduperreal Dems nothing can get passed. Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

The GOP's approach is far more straight forwards: we need more tax cuts in order to fix whatever it needs to be fixed. Healthcare crisis? Tax cuts. Terrorism? Tax Cuts. Economic crisis created by massive tax cuts? More tax cuts.


At least on a personal note, I am quite bored with this bullshit kabuki play. The fact that it has been going on for a few decades is a testament of how monumentally stupid and prone to denial a large portion of the American population really is.

[BrklynLiberal]

98. Very sad, and very true.,

[bluestateguy]

89. False choice

Democrats who fight, defend their principles, fight back when attacked by the GOP smear artists and raise money win elections.

I have seen liberals and DLCers alike pass and fail at those objetcives.

[JamesA1102]

91. Well said nt

[KharmaTrain]

96. +1000000

[Utopian Leftist]

92. Enthusiastic Recommendation!

Bring back Dr. Dean! And blame the hell out of the right wing.

[patrice]

93. Agreed & Dr Dean believes there's a difference between your "hope' the Democrats hold Congress" &

YOUR role in making that happen.

My grandmother would say "Wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one has more meaning."

[John Agar]

94. I love and support Dr. Dean. He did a great job.

Kaine seems weak so far, based on what I have read and seen.

I hope he is better than he appears so far.

[JamesA1102]

99. This is "Ergo Hoc Propter Hoc" logic

It shows no causal link and ignores all the other factors that played in to each of these elections from the economy to Cliton's scandals to the behavior of the media. It's like when Republicans state that we were never attacked by terrorist after the invasion of Iraq so therefore because we invaded Iraq that stopped terrorist attacks.

[MannyGoldstein]

100. Clearly, it disproves that the DLC wins elections

So either they have no effect, or a negative effect.

[JamesA1102]

108. It clearly proves nothing.

It is just a broad brush without any specific data to back it up.

[democrank]

101. A standing ovation

for Howard Dean

[craigmatic]

102. DLC isn't in control now. There's a few of them in the administration like Rahm, Clinton, and the

treasury guys but Obama himself isn't DLC. Niether is Biden. People act as if the DLC is the illuminati they have a web page.

[Roland99]

103. DLC = Dem Lyin' Crooks

I actually have another word for the "C" but I'm trying to be nicer in my insults. :)