I really hate to say this, but tonight Howard Dean is full of shit.

[Bozita]

This doesn't sound like him at all.

[malaise]

1. I agree

Very sad

[liberalmike27]

26. Yea I Was Extremely Disappointed

I was looking for this, but posted another on this. I just could not believe that Dean seemed unaware that the "they" in that "they crashed the planes into 9/11" was terrorists, and not the Muslim religion of Islam.

I was a group leader here in Mobile when he ran, I've got great respect, but I hope he changes his views on this. No matter how he tried to water it down as a conversation, he pretty much took Newt's opinion on this.

It's a sad day when something like this happens.

[nc4bo]

2. I was just thinking the same thing. Keith's really on him about it. nt

[dogman]

3. It is not new.

He sold out the Democratic Party in Florida and Michigan with this same desire to just get along. His line of thinking is the reason I am no longer a Democrat.

[DURHAM D]

6. And as head of the DNC he -

with help from his CEO (Leah) sold out the LGBT staff and our community.

[truedelphi]

14. And about six months ago, someone here at DU

Spilled the real cat out of the bag - apparently dean had received substantial monies fromthe pharmaceutical industry in order to make his run as governor.

[MrScorpio]

4. Agreed nt

[SargeUNN]

5. Howard please shut up

You couldn't be any more wrong and while I see the thought used I also saw a similiar situation in my hometown. Had the church in question then used Dean's idea, they would have lost any hope of a church in that town.

[Taverner]

7. Agreed nt

[mithnanthy]

8. I also agree.......

he's full of shit. What a disappointment. Just because he's a doctor doesn't mean he has common sense. I was raised by a "doctor" and those degrees don't prove intelligent or 'smarts'! I can't see why people fell for him. He's OLD FASHIONED and a cheap skate.....dont get me started how these guys fly inder the radar and just get 'respect' because they have Doctor degrees.

[butterfly77]

9. Kicked&Recommended!!!

[Freetradesucks]

10. I'm ready for the dog pile...but

He is right. It's not a matter of legality, nobody disputes their right to build. It's a matter of judgement and sensitivity to the victim's families.

[ProSense]

11. "It's a matter of judgement and sensitivity to the victim's families."

These families?

The emotional issue is an excuse. If they really wanted the healing to continue, they wouldn't be so adamantly opposed and the RW arguments would be rejected.

[marmar]

13. "Use pain as a stepping stone, not a camp ground."

wise words from Alan Cohen

[JerseygirlCT]

16. But why?

The need for sensitivity is based on ignorance.

These people have as much connection to the 9-11 terrorists as you do, or I do. They are being scapegoated. And then accused of being insensitive?

What the 9-11 victims who object need is education, not capitulation.

[uppityperson]

20. how the HELL is promoting peace and tolerance insensitive to anyone?

Seriously. How?

If they wanted healing, they would embrace healing and not bigotry.

[Karenina]

25. I'm just STUNNED. A similar feeling to havig the n-bomb

drop from the mouth of a white friend...

Let me see if I understand the good doctor correctly. A community of Americans who have been demonized, slandered, persecuted, blamed (and hold relatively few positions of power) by the dominant culture is being asked to validate the latter's BIGOTRY by being "sensitive" to it?

Dean wants the sand-n****** to PROVE THEY ARE REAL SINCERE AMERICANS by, at least, being willing to move so as not to upset the BIGOTS???

Maybe I should have been willing to leave Ms. Houston's classroom because seeing my face sho' as shit upset her sensitivities and worldview.

[pinboy3niner]

21. But it's okay to be insensitive to MUSLIM 9/11 families?

It's okay (and sensitive) for Dean to say that it's an 'affront' for these victims' families to have a religious center and mosque in an area where OTHER religious centers and houses of worship are perfectly fine?

The 'sensitivity' argument is a smokescreen that exploits 9/11 families to serve a different, ugly agenda.

[sabrina 1]

30. It's NOT a matter of sensitivity to the families.

Many Muslims died that day, two of my neighbors died that day also.

This has nothing to do with 9/11 or the families, it is a fabricated wedge issue thought up the far right, no doubt in my mind that the group behind it is probably Dick Armey's group because this is what they do.

But aside from that, it is a Civil Rights issue, and just as Senator Byrd was on the wrong side of that issue in the '60s when it probably wasn't too unpopular, he lived to regret it all of his life.

Dean is on the wrong side of this. Just look at who he is siding with if you have any doubts. Newt Gingrich, who is lying about the people involved.

I am very, very disappointed in Dean but it's always better to know as much as you can about the people viewed as leaders.

[Forkboy]

12. We all have our moments.

I barely even agree with myself 100% of the time. :)

[carolinayellowdog]

24. for me a moment of realizing I've been wrong about his character

This is not a mild aberration, but a shocking revelation.

[Forkboy]

27. I've never found a politician that I agree with on everything.

The ones I like the most, Dean included, probably hit the 80% agreement level at best. He's wrong on this, but he's right on a whole lot more.

[JerseygirlCT]

15. Yes.

It's sad. nt

[Change Happens]

17. I did NOT tune in on purpose, I knew I would not like what was going to happen...

your post may have confirmed my fears...I got on here to see what the professional left was saying.

[obliviously]

18. Oh no!

[donheld]

19. k & R I love the good Doctor, but he's dead wrong on this one.

[DeltaLitProf]

22. Me too.

The hysteria against this moderate cultural center is cynically contrived and should be called out as such. Dean is so effective on so many issues, but in this case he's giving too much ground to those in this country who would tear down every step toward pluralism we've ever taken. He legitimized some of the crazies tonight.

[LooseWilly]

23. Sounds like the Dean moderatism that led me to vote for Kerry in the primaries back then.

I'd started to think I must've been delirious back in the day.

Sad to see Dean trying to placate what amounts to 'Islamophobia' (did I hear that term coined on The Daily Show?)... he cites statistics, as if the 65% polling suggesting discomfort makes the phobia reasonable, rather than just an epidemic.

His fundamental idea, of a dialogue between participants of good faith, makes some sense on its head... but how does one, in good faith, exclude those who are obviously (though not quantitatively) not acting in good faith? Do the organizers of the "open minded dialogue" just autocratically dismiss interested participants as being 'not in good faith"?... Will effort be wasted to draft a policy position regarding the pre-requisites to qualify for "good faith"-dom?

it is ridiculous and tortured logic that can only be explained by an attempt to play political twister and keep everyone happy... or, more cynically, a judgement about the comfort levels of Vermonters with Muslims. (Just a potential theory given voice... not one that I endorse with regard to Dean... but one which I can't help but entertain as a possibility suddenly.)

[bvar22]

28. The Doctor is a good Democratic Party soldier,

and will go to the trenches to defend the Democratic Party Line.

Dr Dean, and the Democratic Party is WRONG on this issue.



Vivian Jones certainly had the RIGHT to enroll in the University of Alabama in 1963, but she should NEVER do so because THAT would offend the sensibilities of Alabama's racists.


The "New Democrat" Party of today is NOT the "Democratic Party" I joined in the '60s. :cry:

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

29. Agree. I was very disappointed with Howard last night n/t

[DirkGently]

31. Didn't think it sounded like him either. What gives?