Are you for the death penalty ?

[steve2470]

Poll question: Are you for the death penalty ?

Personally, I'm not. However, no one I know has ever been murdered. I'm not sure how I would think and feel if I knew a murder victim.

Mods, if this is against the rules for GD, my apologies.

[Jackpine Radical]

1. Not only no, but

HELL NO!

[cleanhippie]

2. I think that this will be a travesty of a thread

if anyone answers differently that what the majority does.

Seems like flamebait to me.....

[hlthe2b]

4. Really? I've been anti-DP since a teen, but I recognize differences

in attitudes, especially if a family member had suffered a violent death... I think it is an honest subject for debate.

I must admit that lately, some of the most horrendous crimes--especially those involving repeated violence towards helpless children and animals-- have tested my convictions... But, yes, I am still staunchly anti-DP.

[cleanhippie]

19. I agree with you

It SHOULD be a subject for honest debate, but here, on DU, when it comes up like this, one side gets TRASHED for having a dissenting opinion, thats all I meant.

[steve2470]

51. I respect the way you approach these debates

You and I discussed the open carry issue. We were both respectful. I give you kudos for that. I actually changed my mind because you and the others were respectful.

[cleanhippie]

58. Sweet! Its the new "me" at work!

Glad my new approach was effective. Maybe public office is in my future?

[GodlessBiker]

59. Like abortion should be a subject for honest debate here?

[cleanhippie]

61. Yes, it should be.

Even people on the left have differing opinions regarding that subject. When it does come up, the minority dissenters get piled on and the insults fly!

There are many subjects like that that are keeping Dems/libs/progressives from having meaningful dialogue and coming to a compromise in order to advance the bigger agenda. Truly sad.

[GodlessBiker]

70. To many, discussing abortion and the death penalty is like discussing segregated water fountains.

Sure, we can have an honest debate on it, but, come on...

I suppose each of use decides when an issue becomes obsolete to debate.

[cleanhippie]

77. But, come on what?

Sure, we can have an honest debate on it, but, come on...

Come on, what? I can take that to mean several different things. Can you explain?

[GodlessBiker]

93. But, come on, for the same reason you wouldn't waste your time...

to debate a person who believed in segregated water fountains, likewise would it be a waste of time to debate a person who didn't think a woman had the right to choose.

It's just, I mean, so late in the day for that.

[cleanhippie]

97. But what about the discussion that can be had within that context.

it be a waste of time to debate a person who didn't think a woman had the right to choose. Agreed. But what about the differences in opinions within the context of choice? Shouldn't we be discussing that, as well as fathers rights? I just mean to say that there IS room for discussion within the basic parameters that define us as liberals/progressives, no?

[steve2470]

63. If everyone is respectful.... I think it could be discussed

I have to admit, though, I've never seen a discussion of abortion go well.

[EFerrari]

103. The death penatly can prolong the suffering of a victim's family.

This opinion piece speaks to that:

Another murder victim’s family opposes death penalty
By Mary Shaw
Online Journal Contributing Writer

A Philadelphia suburban district attorney has announced that he will not seek the death penalty against a woman and her lover for the June murder of the woman’s husband, Kevin Mengel.

Chester County DA Joe Carroll said the case does not meet the conditions required to pursue the death penalty.

Carroll also noted that the victim’s parents did not want the death penalty for their son’s murderers. And that is why I am writing this.

Whenever I write or speak about my opposition to the death penalty, I invariably hear from death penalty proponents who argue that killing the killer serves the best interests of the victim’s family, giving them closure. But not all families are thirsty for revenge. This Chester County case is one example of that. So are the cases of the many family members who form the organization Murder Victims’ Families for Reconciliation (MVFR). Founded in 1976, MVFR actively works for abolition of the death penalty in all states that still use it.

These enlightened souls offer a wide variety of reasons for their opposition to the death penalty:

* Endless trials reopen emotional wounds and put off the time when real healing can begin.

* The vast resources and attention spent on the death penalty is better spent supporting crime victims and their families, and preventing crime in the first place.

* The risk of executing the innocent -- something that appears to have happened in more than one known case -- is too high a price to pay.

* Biases of geography, race, and class plague the system.

* Executions create more families who have lost a loved one to killing.

* And many think it is just plain wrong for the state to kill.



http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_6204.shtml

[Liberal_in_LA]

5. Not flamebait, just reasonable poll question

[cleanhippie]

20. Yes, the poll is good

Its the discussions that follow......

[Kerrytravelers]

7. If you feel this way, then you should hit the alert button on the OP and let the Mods know.

However, as the OP is written, there is nothing in it that is at all considered flamebait. The responses have been fine, no reason for alarm. If someone does violate a rule, then their post would be removed.

[steve2470]

8. I can respect others' opinions

I would hope we can agree to disagree in a civil manner. I understand the argument for the death penalty. I just do not agree. As I said, if my son were murdered, I do not know how I would feel. Life in prison, to me, is actually worse than the DP.

[Taitertots]

28. What makes you think that life in prison is worse than death? n/t

[steve2470]

30. I worked in a prison

I saw how they live. It's horrible, to me. Yes, they are alive, but I'd rather be dead. My opinion. I suppose others would rather live like a caged rat than be dead.

[Taitertots]

39. So why do people oppose the death penalty during sentencing?

If it is preferable to life in prison then why don't people prefer it when the chance is available?

If anything it would seem like most people go to great lengths to avoid the death penalty.

[steve2470]

44. I have no idea

I don't want to die, but then again, because of my religious beliefs, I'd be ok with dying as opposed to being in a rat cage. I'm not going to discuss my beliefs or argue them. Everyone is entitled to theirs or lack of them.

We're all different. Some people would rather live like a rat. Not me. Give me a decent life or just let me die.

[Taitertots]

65. If you are not going to discuss your beliefs then we will have to agree to disagree

It seems like the vast majority of people disagree with you.

[steve2470]

68. I think you are correct

I'm ok with dying, if prison is the other option. If everyone was like me, there would be no death row.

[aikoaiko]

10. This thread will be fine. We take the pulse of DU on this topic every 4 - 6 months.

We're alright. ;)

Welcome to DU. :hi:

[LostinVA]

13. Not flamebait at all

And, lots of DUers have always been pro-DP.

[cleanhippie]

21. I know

but the minority opinion on this subject has historically brought down hellfire and brimstone from the majority opinion. The poll os fine, its the discussions that usually get out of hand.

[LostinVA]

54. So, preemptively call any OP on an uncomfortable subject "flamebait"?

And,m honest question: how would you know?

[cleanhippie]

114. It was MY opinion based on previous experience.

"Seems like flame bait to me" is what i wrote. Pretty obvious that this is only my opinion. I am entitled to that, no?

[dionysus]

94. you seem to be the only one trying to rustle up an argument in this thread.

:shrug:

[cleanhippie]

115. No, I am not.

I am not looking to rustle up an argument. Are you?

[Caliman73]

107. I think that people begin to get upset when the discussion turns from reason to passion.

There may be reasoned positions on both sides but inevitably we get pro-DP people who say, "Fry the motherfuckers" or anti-DP people who say, "Anyone who agrees with the DP is a murderous motherfucker" then it goes down hill.

[cleanhippie]

117. Exactly, and it usually does not take long to get there.

[Renew Deal]

40. We've had these threads before and it's OK.

Just don't act like an a-hole and you'll be fine.

[cleanhippie]

48. Thanks, but its not me I'm worried about

[John Q. Citizen]

76. oh yeah? Seems like a chance to discuss the death penalty, pro and con, to me.

I'm agin it but I've known a lot of people who are for it. I've found that many for it are under the mis-impression that executing someone is cheaper than incarcerating them for life. They often express disbelief or skepticism when I point out that it costs taxpayers far more to execute than it does to incarcerate for life.

[Festivito]

106. Instead, a flamebait warning branch became, ironically, a flamebait travesty.

And, if a majority post a majority opinion against a minority opinion, isn't that called democracy on occasion?

[cleanhippie]

Actually, I have had three perfectly reasonable and rational conversations

in this "travesty" of a sub-thread, thank you very much. Care to add to it?

[Kerrytravelers]

3. Not only am I and my family against it, we have made specific requests that if it should come to

happen that someone may be facing the death penalty for the murder of one or more of us, we do not want the state killing in our name. If someone killed Mr. kt, I would not want the death penalty, and would be very publicly vocal about that request. Prison time, yes, of course, depending upon the actual situation in terms of prison time. However, absolutely no death penalty. Period.

[Parker CA]

6. Absolutely not. nt.

[dionysus]

9. in theory i'm fine with the death penalty for say, hitler types, but because so many people get

falsely executed, i'd be fine with abolishing it.

[cleanhippie]

What is a "hitler type?"

[wtmusic]

25. You know - little mustache, likes to paint, into genocide. nt

[cleanhippie]

27. Seems like that would be a policy directed at one specific group of people and therefore

unconstitutional.

[wtmusic]

29. Murderers have always received special consideration under the Constitution

As for the mustache/painting part, that's why the Constitution can be amended.

[cleanhippie]

31. Correct, however...

if it is only for "hitler" types, such as you described, that creates a sub-set of murderers that do not get equal treatment as other murderers.

[wtmusic]

41. There is a whole laundry list of special circumstances

which are taken into consideration in sentencing, so in reality "equal treatment" is a myth.

I'm just proposing adding "painter with stupid little mustache" to the list.

[cleanhippie]

46. Do you think you will get pressure from the "painter with stupid little mustache" lobby?

That is one group of people you don't want to mess with!

[wtmusic]

50. True, and IMO our next fanatical despot will have a "soul patch" anyway.

Scary.

[cleanhippie]

53. Scary, indeed!

:toast:

[dionysus]

87. i think you missed the whole point of my post

[cleanhippie]

89. Yes, I did.

What was it? And I do want to know what you mean by "hitler types".

[dionysus]

92. while there are henious crimes deserving of the death penalty, the fact that innocent people

have been put to death means that i have no problem if the death penalty were to be abolished.

[LostinVA]

11. Murder is murder, even if it is by the State

It's either right or wrong.; Also, too many Death Row people are innocent of the charges.

I am for life in prison without the chance of parole.

[Xenotime]

123. Those who kill are really people who are suffering and need help.

[aikoaiko]

12. Yes, I prefer that it be an option for heinous crimes where there is certainty of agency...

...and no compelling mitigating circumstances.

[wtmusic]

14. Q. Would you accept the death penalty

if the money which would have been used to keep murderers alive would be allocated to homeless shelters to keep people on the street alive?

I'm trying to figure out the difference between knowingly allowing 60,000 helpless (and innocent) people to die every year, and state-sanctioned murder. I'm coming up a little short.

[steve2470]

47. As much as I am for care of the homeless, I have to say no

There's too much chance of the state making a mistake. Personally, also, I do not believe in the state taking a life for a life. Life in prison until the person is completely dead and buried or cremated. I've worked in a prison, and it's horrible. It's like slowly dying every day.

[wtmusic]

55. They can be considered as taking a life for a life right now.

Is dying from exposure, hunger, and neglect any better? Prison is bad, but you know where your next meal is coming from.

[steve2470]

60. I respect what you are saying

We agree to disagree, I think. Homelessness is really bad. To me, prison is even worse.

[wtmusic]

62. Likewise.

My opinion is in a constant state of flux on this. If I had been shaped by your experience I probably would agree with you.

[Upton]

15. Yes..

some crimes are so heinous that the perpetrators deserve it. Such as this one:

http://www.king5.com/news/local/Judge-rules-Carnation-murder-defendants-can-face-death-95654514.html

[cleanhippie]

26. What makes this any worse than any other murder?

Why is THIS case so horrible that they deserve death but other murder cases do not?

[Upton]

43. Actually...

I don't believe the death penalty should be taken off the table for most murders. I was just using this family's murder as an example, because for me it's local and their truly deplorable nature..

[cleanhippie]

45. Yes, it does hit close to home.

I'm in the north sound area, so I remember this very well.

[Booster]

38. I agree. Little Samantha Runion comes to mind. I'd pull the

switch myself on that guy.

[mitchum]

16. I used to be, but now I just don't care

[Fire1]

17. No. n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

18. I've known several people who were murdered and I'm strongly against the death penalty.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

22. No. And the corruption and incompetence at NC's SBI is one major reason.

SBI audit energizes death penalty foes

"Death penalty opponents have renewed calls to repeal state-supported executions and to commute the sentences of all death row inmates to life in prison, in the wake of a scathing audit of the State Bureau of Investigation.

The audit, released last week, found flawed laboratory work in the cases of death row inmates, including three who had been executed before the revelation came to light."

....

"The troubling findings come on the heels of new studies by researchers at the Michigan State University school of law, the University of Colorado in Boulder and Northeastern University in Boston that show racial disparities in the trials and sentencing of death row inmates."

Read more: http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/08/22/639509/audit-fires-up-death-penalty-foes.html#ixzz0xM5YntJA

~~~~

I don't trust that other states are doing it "right" either, besides the issue of state-sanctioned killing.

[proteus_lives]

23. Yes.

Sometimes it is applicable and deserved.

[Bitwit1234]

24. Although there are a couple of GUYS I would gladly vote

YES on if they ever came to trial. Guess.

[Taitertots]

32. I'm for the death penalty, but it is low on my list of penal system priorities

I'd much rather see the people who are going to be released receiving mental health care in an environment free from sexual abuse and violence.

As opposed to what we do now which can only be described as locking them in a situation that makes certain that they will be physically, mentally, and sexually abused while receiving no treatment.

[Yeshuah Ben Joseph]

33. Not exactly a fan.

Innocent people do get executed. Sometimes it's as much a matter of an angry mob mentality than an actual penalty of law.

[grantcart]

34. with the possible exception of someone who continues to murder

prison guards and other prisoners after receiving life without parole.

If they continue to murder in confinement there may be no other option to safeguard life.

[suzie]

113. Or attempt to murder people while in prison.

I think the general population doesn't distinguish between the person convicted of murder who eliminated the one person on earth that they disliked or that abused them, and the individual who kills because that's just what he does.

[Va Lefty]

35. Yes and No

Yes, in extreme cases (Gacy, Bundy, Ng etc). No, in the way it is most often applied. So I guess that's a qualified yes.

[LWolf]

36. A firm, unyielding NO.

I'm not for authoritarian punishments, period, let alone for becoming the monster by killing for any reason but immediate self defense.

I AM for legal, assisted suicide; for people having the right to choose to terminate their own lives.

[Chan790]

37. I am not for the death penalty...

I think it's pretty grotesque.

I very adamantly believe that life-imprisonment in lieu of execution must be whole-life and unconditional though. Incarceration until natural demise. No release because you're really really old. No release because you've got cancer or because you've been in prison for 60 years.

[petronius]

42. I am weakly against it. IMO the expense, chance of error, unlikelihood of

it being a deterrence, and probability that it will be unevenly applied should preclude its use. However, I have no particular moral or ethical objection to it...

[Political_Junkie]

49. My favorite aunt was killed when I was 13.

Her husband killed her. The murder was so gruesome that the trial was covered in detail in all of the local papers.
I loved her, and she was gone. She was a sweet woman and he hurt her repeatedly.
They don't have the death penalty in my home state and that's just fine. I didn't want him dead. I just wanted him off the streets where he couldn't hurt anyone anymore. The death penalty wouldn't have brought back my aunt, it wouldn't have taken away the pain she felt at his hands, or the pain our family felt at losing her.
She died alone, in pain and afraid, no one deserves to die like that, not even him.

[Warpy]

66. My family member not only made the papers

the story was splashed all over one of those lurid crime magazines of the 50s and 60s, the cover story. I have the magazine, my dad had it in his things.

I'm still against the DP. Locking him up made it impossible for him to do it again.

[Political_Junkie]

83. Yep, it hurts, but we all felt better knowing he was locked up.

I'm sorry you had to go through it too.
:hug:

[Warpy]

90. People who haven't been there never really know.

I wish no one on this board would ever really know.

[Political_Junkie]

99. Yeah, me too.

:hug:

[TheKentuckian]

52. No, and increasingly against as guilt is lost in the public bloodlust and the focus goes to the

severity of the crime rather than the culpability of the accused and prosecutors are allowed and even encouraged to harp on the crime and conflate it with guilt.

I wouldn't trust my fate to the least aware and most emotionally driven people that can be found that can't get out of jury duty and therefore don't trust anyone else's fate to the same mad fuckers that would be out Teabagging if they didn't get called to service.

None of that even touches on the institutional racism and the influence of wealth.

I also find it strange that people you wouldn't trust to properly understand 2+2=4 or to connect the most basic dots are just fine to decide if someone lives or dies. People that wouldn't trust the general public on the color of the sky are first in line to trust the same morons to understand complex issues in an adversarial system where the state had unlimited resources and the accused gets an overburdened public defender with 50 bucks are confused or are out for revenge regardless of who actually committed the crime, in my opinion.

[TexasObserver]

56. No

[Silver Swan]

57. I am against capital punishment

But in certain cases, I think cruel and unusual punishment would be a good thing. Too bad it is unconstitutional, but the death penalty isn't.

[Warpy]

64. Someone in my family was murdered

He was suspected in three similar murders in the same small city. Having him killed in my name would have made the whole thing worse. I wanted him locked away so he couldn't do it again, preferably to die locked away. I got my wish and he eventually did die in prison.

I was sixteen. I haven't changed my mind about it. I'm still against the death penalty.

[Taitertots]

69. I'm sure all the people he abused, raped, or killed, in prison are happy for you n/t

[Warpy]

72. Once he was separated from alcohol and drugs

he might have turned out to be a reasonable human being. Then again, he might not have. However, this guy was more in line to be a victim in prison than a predator, trust me.

[Hissyspit]

73. Wow.

You mean he might have murdered some murderers who we should kill so they won't murder some murderers who we should kill?

What a ridiculous twisted logic. Probably the worst argument I've ever seen here. And pretty damn offensive response to the poster on top of it.

[Taitertots]

82. Do you understand the difference between....

Sexually abusing and/or painfully murdering someone and killing them in a humane way after full due process of law?

[Warpy]

84. What makes you think sexual abuse was part of it?

Talk out of the wrong orifice about things you don't know anything about much?

Never mind.

Moving on.

[Taitertots]

86. You are being intentionally naive about the American penal system n/t

[Warren Stupidity]

112. a truly fucked fact free opinion.

nice.

[Taverner]

67. No - Having said that, I didn't exactly shed a tear when John Allan Muhammed was put down

[Vehl]

71. I am....for certain crimes. like Child Molesters/muderers of children nt

[Locrian]

74. only for corporations - n/t

[SOS]

75. No

Certain crimes are richly deserving.
The Connecticut home invasion comes immediately to mind.

But 125 factually innocent men have been released from death row.
Nothing can justify the first-degree murder of innocent men by the state.

As long as there are criminals masquerading as prosecutors in this country, the death penalty cannot be countenanced.

[RufusTFirefly]

78. Countries that permit the death penalty

We're in interesting company...

* Afghanistan
* Antigua and Barbuda
* Bahamas
* Bahrain
* Bangladesh
* Barbados
* Belarus
* Belize
* Botswana
* Burundi
* Cameroon
* Chad
* China (People's Republic)
* Comoros
* Congo (Democratic Republic)
* Cuba
* Dominica
* Egypt
* Equatorial Guinea
* Eritrea
* Ethiopia
* Gabon
* Ghana
* Guatemala
* Guinea
* Guyana
* India
* Indonesia
* Iran
* Iraq
* Jamaica
* Japan
* Jordan
* Korea, North
* Korea, South
* Kuwait
* Laos
* Lebanon
* Lesotho
* Libya
* Malawi
* Malaysia
* Mongolia
* Nigeria
* Oman
* Pakistan
* Palestinian Authority
* Qatar
* St. Kitts and Nevis
* St. Lucia
* St. Vincent and the Grenadines
* Saudi Arabia
* Sierra Leone
* Singapore
* Somalia
* Sudan
* Swaziland
* Syria
* Taiwan
* Tajikistan
* Tanzania
* Thailand
* Trinidad and Tobago
* Uganda
* United Arab Emirates
* United States
* Vietnam
* Yemen
* Zambia
* Zimbabwe


Read more: The Death Penalty Worldwide — Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777460.html#ixzz0xMGU3OXj

[RufusTFirefly]

79. Countries that don't permit the death penalty

.. and the year it was abolished

* Albania (2000)
* Andorra (1990)
* Angola (1992)
* Argentina (2008)
* Armenia (2003)
* Australia (1984)
* Austria (1950)
* Azerbaijan (1998)
* Belgium (1996)
* Bhutan (2004)
* Bosnia-Herzegovina (1997)
* Bulgaria (1998)
* Cambodia (1989)
* Canada (1976)
* Cape Verde (1981)
* Chile (2008)
* Colombia (1910)
* Cook Islands (2007)
* Costa Rica (1877)
* Côte d'Ivoire (2000)
* Croatia (1990)
* Cyprus (1983)
* Czech Republic (1990)
* Denmark (1933)
* Djibouti (1995)
* Dominican Republic (1966)
* East Timor (1999)
* Ecuador (1906)
* Estonia (1998)
* Finland (1949)
* France (1981)
* Georgia (1997)
* Germany (1949)
* Greece (1993)
* Guinea-Bissau (1993)
* Haiti (1987)
* Honduras (1956)
* Hungary (1990)
* Iceland (1928)
* Ireland (1990)
* Italy (1947)
* Kiribati (1979)
* Liberia (2005)
* Liechtenstein (1987)
* Lithuania (1998)
* Luxembourg (1979)
* Macedonia (1991)
* Malta (1971)
* Marshall Islands (1986)
* Mauritius (1995)
* Mexico (2005)
* Micronesia (1986)
* Moldova (1995)
* Monaco (1962)
* Montenegro (2002)
* Mozambique (1990)
* Namibia (1990)
* Nepal (1990)
* Netherlands (1870)
* New Zealand (1961)
* Nicaragua (1979)
* Niue (n.a.)
* Norway (1905)
* Palau (n.a.)
* Panama (1903)
* Paraguay (1992)
* Poland (1997)
* Portugal (1867)
* Philippines (2006)
* Romania (1989)
* Rwanda (2007)
* Samoa (2004)
* San Marino (1848)
* São Tomé and Príncipe (1990)
* Senegal (2004)
* Serbia (2002)
* Seychelles (1993)
* Slovak Republic (1990)
* Slovenia (1989)
* Solomon Islands (1966)
* South Africa (1995)
* Spain (1978)
* Sweden (1921)
* Switzerland (1942)
* Turkey (2002)
* Turkmenistan (1999)
* Tuvalu (1978)
* Ukraine (1999)
* United Kingdom (1973)
* Uruguay (1907)
* Uzbekistan (2008)
* Vanuatu (1980)
* Vatican City (1969)
* Venezuela (1863)


Read more: The Death Penalty Worldwide — Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777460.html#ixzz0xMHcpQrF

[LostInAnomie]

80. Hypothetically, I'm against it.

That being said, if someone murdered one of my loved ones, I can't say how I would feel.

It always seemed a little unjust to me that some people who commit some of the most depraved and horrendous crimes would be allowed to live.

[gulliver]

81. I'm for it in an unbiased judicial system not run by idiots.

So, I'm against it at this time.

[Iggo]

85. Not this shit again.

[wtmusic]

95. If you stay around here long enough

you could say that about any thread.

[Iggo]

98. Yeah, but this one comes up a LOT.

[Fla_Democrat]

88. Yes

:smoke:

[FunkyLeprechaun]

91. I knew a murder victim

She had recently broken up with her boyfriend and had settled for the night with her father to watch a movie. She heard the doorbell ring and it was her ex, stabbing her to death right there on her own doorstep. I remember the police sirens, etc. These days there is nary a peep of her from the family, although her brother knows that I know about the murder.

I feel that the family has moved on but it is sad that she is not mentioned ever. I don't think they are for the death penalty and no matter how disgusting a crime could be, I don't think the death penalty should be applied.

David Brom was a well known incident in my hometown and he was committed to the mental institution near my hometown. He just snapped and killed almost all of his family members, including running after his younger sister and beheading her. And yet I don't think he should get the death penalty. He was very mentally ill when the crime was committed. I didn't know him but I knew Luke Helder, who committed attempted murder in 2002 and he is in the same institution as David Brom.

Some people don't really understand that the death penalty doesn't stop crime happening.

[LeftishBrit]

96. Against it.

We haven't had it in the UK for 45 years, and I am glad of this.

It is not an effective deterrent, and it just turns all of us into collaborators with state murder.

I have not directly known a murder victim, but I have known children whose mother was murdered, and the disastrous effects on them. It still doesn't make me support the death penalty; that cannot restore the victim's life.

Also, there is always the danger of executing an innocent person.

[saltpoint]

118. In addition to agreeing with you on all counts as usual,

I really just wanted an excuse to say good morning and to wish you a great end-of-summer going into the autumn.

:hi:

[Irishonly]

100. I Have Known People Who Were Murdered

I am still against the death penalty. I have no problem with life w/o parole.

[Jester Messiah]

101. I am, but I think it should only be applied rarely and under specific circumstances.

Those being where guilt is admitted or established beyond any shadow of doubt (confirmed by DNA evidence, multiple witnesses of good character). I don't support it as a retributive measure, as I think life in prison is a worse fate than a swift end. If the guilty person would likely resume their habits upon escape, being the subject of compulsion to do so, then I would suggest death as a means to end the threat.

[yowzayowzayowza]

102. Timmy McV certainly deserved it. n/t

[Stinky The Clown]

104. I voted no, but there IS a death penalty I favor.

Man does not have the moral right to kill another man. Period.

I HIGHLY favor, however, a corporate death penalty. If a corporation is proved to have intentionally provided a product or service they knew to be deadly and still sold it, they should be seized by the state and their assets sold. If they destroy the economy by their actions, the same should happen.

[Festivito]

105. Other: Only for people we cannot incarcerate.

That could be the incarcerated who kill, death-penalty under life in forfeit escapees, and escapees who kill.

I also want as higher standard for death penalty of life in forfeit, reasonably beyond even a single hint of possible redemption., that these people would be summarily ready for execution should the facility holding them be overrun. The standard would allow the prisoner to be available to any psychologist or psychiatrist FOR STUDY or re-evaluation and would have to be retried at the request of any interested party at a maximum of every month or only yearly if given a psychiatric team re-evaluation. A planned execution could only continue after a final life in forfeit determination and, one last hurdle, that there is no further value to the state especially in terms of a study using the prisoner or future possible worthwhile information the prisoner alive could give.

That was long.
EDITED to add Other: in title, and that the death penalty we currently is employ I see as inadequate. But, I think you could have surmised that.

[Caliman73]

108. I voted NO

I am personally against the DP for the following reasons. I think that it is not justice but revenge and that people convince themselves that it is justice because it is administered after a legal procedure. It does nothing to deter crime. It ties up a great deal of legal and financial resources. It's administration has been unequal in terms of race and socio-economic status. It goes against the idea of having 10 criminals go free rather than have an innocent man punished. It cannot be taken back and there have been people exonerated while sitting on Death Row, therefore it can be assumed that innocent people have been killed by the state.

I am not naive enough to think that every person who commits crime can be rehabilitated. There are some people who need to be incarcerated to protect society. Killing them however, is not that protection and only serves to lower us to their level of utilitarianism.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

109. Only once the courts are run by angels.

I am undecided on whether or not there are some people who have done things so evil that killing them is an appropriate and just response - I think there probably are, but I'm not certain.

However, I'm 100% certain that any policy set up to kill such people and run by fallible mortals will also sometimes kill people who don't deserve it, and I don't think that's a price worth paying.

[sendero]

110. I'm tolerant of the death penalty...

..... only in open-shut cases where there is not only no reasonable doubt, there is no doubt whatsoever about the guilt of the defendant.

That means, at least 3 eyewitnesses or other incontrovertable physical evidence. None of these dodgy cases put on by fuckwad prosecutors who ought to be sentenced to death themselves for their willingness to send someone to their death based on the flimsiest of trumped up bullshit.

[flvegan]

111. No. It's not punishment. It's relief from punishment.

Stupid to even think about. The bloodlust for the DP is human emotion, and has nothing to do with justice.

[saltpoint]

116. No.

Under any circumstances.

[TBF]

119. Against, there is too much danger that an innocent person could get executed -

not one of us is perfect and mistakes are made in the judicial system at every level. For this reason I would say "life without possibility of parole" would be the preferable treatment.

[blueamy66]

120. I am in favor of the DP in cases

of confession and overwhelming DNA evidence.

I don't care about all of the arguments against.....if you commit a murder in a state where the DP is allowed, you take the chance of being put to death.

What is the problem?

It is not a deterrent....it is a punishment....plain and simple.

[spanone]

121. murder by the state is still murder

[uncommon]

122. I think there are circumstances in which it is warranted.