We ALL Lost: "The American public has no idea just how terrible we've made conditions in Iraq"

[kpete]

U.S. Occupation of Iraq More Than Doubles Poverty, Sickness -- Leaves Country a Total Disaster
The American public has no idea just how terrible we've made conditions in Iraq.
August 22, 2010 |



Iraq has between 25 and 50 percent unemployment, a dysfunctional parliament, rampant disease, an epidemic of mental illness, and sprawling slums. The killing of innocent people has become part of daily life. What a havoc the United States has wreaked in Iraq.

UN-HABITAT, an agency of the United Nations, recently published a 218-page report http://www.unhabitat.org/pmss/listItemDetails.aspx?publicationID=2917 entitled State of the World’s Cities, 2010-2011. The report is full of statistics on the status of cities around the world and their demographics. It defines slum dwellers as those living in urban centers without one of the following: durable structures to protect them from climate, sufficient living area, sufficient access to water, access to sanitation facilities, and freedom from eviction.

Almost intentionally hidden in these statistics is one shocking fact about urban Iraqi populations. For the past few decades, prior to the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003, the percentage of the urban population living in slums in Iraq hovered just below 20 percent. Today, that percentage has risen to 53 percent: 11 million of the 19 million total urban dwellers. In the past decade, most countries have made progress toward reducing slum dwellers. But Iraq has gone rapidly and dangerously in the opposite direction.

According to the U.S. Census of 2000, 80 percent of the 285 million people living in the United States are urban dwellers. Those living in slums are well below 5 percent. If we translate the Iraqi statistic into the U.S. context, 121 million people in the United States would be living in slums.

more:
http://www.alternet.org/story/147928/u.s._occupation_of_iraq_more_than_doubles_poverty%2C_sickness_--_leaves_country_a_total_disaster/
http://www.fpif.org/articles/what_you_will_not_hear_about_iraq

[wtmusic]

1. War crimes for Bush. nt

[Larry Ogg]

35. So if Bush is a war criminal (which I believe he is)

what then should we call those who refused to investigate, impeach and prosecute?

[wtmusic]

46. Negligent at best, accomplices at worst. nt

[Raster]

50. collaborators and accomplices

[Butch350]

61. Left holding the bag.

[EFerrari]

87. The Democrats did not resist the Iraq war as a group so

they helped fill the bag they are left with.

[Usrename]

62. According to the Nuremberg Principles, they would be complicit.

On a tangental subject, failure to investigate credible accusations of torture becomes a separate War Crime under the UN Convention Against Torture. These people (including the Speaker of the House) have a moral and legal duty here.

[MissDeeds]

63. And what should we call those who

chose to continue his wars?

[Ticonderoga]

91. We'll call them what they are are,

which is co-conspirators. Aiding,abetting, and harboring criminals puts this bunch in that catagory. Very disappointing.

[Vincevega]

92. What do we call the people that voted for these warmongers?

we all have blood on our hands, the citizens, the soldiers and every politician who didn't speak out against these wars. I have never voted for any politician who continued to vote for war funding after 2005 and I will never vote for one as long as I still have my marbles

[Hannah Bell]

2. neoliberal "reform" = poverty & death. disguised with bullshit about women's rights

for the fools.

[jaxx]

3. Was Bush a neoliberal?

That's an odd one.

[Hannah Bell]

7. yes. programs = neolib. neolib = "free market" bullshit.

[jaxx]

10. That's very funny that you would join those two.

Odd but funny.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

13. She didn't join the 2. That term has been around for a few decades. It was

used to describe the Reagan-Thatcher-Friedman type "reforms" which consisted of "liberalizing" or easing market rules and regulations.

[dionysus]

65. love the Dr who pic

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

66. "He be da man." As crazy ass Bachmann would say. ;-). nt

[dionysus]

67. what do you think of the Matt Smith version? tom Baker to me is the ultimate Dr.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

68. It's funny that you say that. Because when I was a kid in Puerto Rico. I used to watch the Tom Baker

episodes. I didn't know how old the show was or that it continued after him. So to me the goofy looking guy with the afro WAS Doctor Who. It wasn't really until last year that I realized that series was still around. So I went back on Netflix to watch every new series episode I could. David Tennant is right up there with Baker. The new guy is alright but he has big shoes to fill.

[dionysus]

95. i was very, very sad to see tennant go. but it was his choice.

[Hannah Bell]

15. it's very funny you don't understand the meaning of neoliberal and are mistaking

it for some kind of smear on "liberals".

Neoliberalism is a market-driven<1> approach to economic and social policy based on neoclassical theories of economics that maximise the role of the private business sector in determining the political and economic priorities of the state.

The term "neoliberalism" has also come into wide use in cultural studies to describe an internationally prevailing ideological paradigm that leads to social, cultural, and political practices and policies that use the language of markets, efficiency, consumer choice, transactional thinking and individual autonomy to shift risk from governments and corporations onto individuals and to extend this kind of market logic into the realm of social and affective relationships.<2>


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberal_economics

[jaxx]

16. No, no, you misunderstood.

It's very funny that bush is brought into this...and odd too.

[Hannah Bell]

21. what are you talking about - you're the person who brought in bush.

if you think it's "funny" better tell yourself.

the wars = neolib wars, the "reforms" instituted in iraq = radical neolib "reforms" -- which are killing people.

[jaxx]

22. No, the second post brought in Bush.

I just asked a question after your post about neoliberals.

Funny how it got all bent out of shape, isn't it.

[Hannah Bell]

23. maybe "it got all bent out of shape" because you addressed it after *my post* rather than the post

which brought in bush.

in fact, i'm sure that's the case.

so it's not funny at all. the only funny thing is your disingenuous confusion of points & issues.

[jaxx]

24. Oh well, I'm not confused at all.

[Hannah Bell]

26. it's a sign of confusion not to recognize that.

or a sign of sheer disingenuousness.

[jaxx]

28. You might want to quit with the personal observations.

That isn't nice.

[Hannah Bell]

32. ? *you* are the person who brought up george bush in this thread with me.

you seem to have trouble with that FACT.

goodbye.

[xxqqqzme]

76. Wasted effort, unfortunately.

I understood exactly what you were saying. Too bad others missed it. I fear this is a prime example of the hot, ready to be confrontational attitude prevailing DU these days.

[RaleighNCDUer]

72. Neo-con developed out of neo-liberal -

essentially (as I understand it) neo-con is just the militarization of neo-liberal economic policies.

[Politicub]

83. For more about how Bushco used women's rights to sell the war, read the Terror Dream

by Susan Faludi. It's an illuminating book about how women's rights were used by people on the right who never have a good thing to say about women and care nothing about their rights.

[indepat]

4. Lincoln's words "The world will never forget what they did here" comes to

mind. :cry:

[jobycom]

80. I only wish I believed it.

We always forget. We destroy nations routinely for getting in our economic path. We forgot what we did to Iran, and then we blamed them for the totalitarianism and the horrible human rights conditions that we forced on them. We'll do the same thing here, I fear.

[indepat]

86. As I opined in my completely rejected/ignored original post, what we have done in Iraq and are

continuing to do in Afghanistan imo, largely defines us as a nation, a government, and a people, but obviously: I'm in a resounding majority of one even on this board. While fervently wishing I were wrong, I also know in my heart and with my whole body, mind, spirit, and soul of the colossal and untold enormity of destruction, inhumanity, and suffering seemingly so callously and cavalierly inflicted on those nations and their people. :P

edited for punctuation

[gratuitous]

5. Very useful information

When we hear (and you know we will) from the Nitwit Brigade about what a terrific thing it was that we invaded Iraq, executed its dictator, and occupied the country for seven years, you might keep this little factoid handy in memory. I wonder how many would think it was a good trade should this have happened in their neighborhood?

[dixiegrrrrl]

6. And the US did that intentionally.[/b]

From the start of the attack they destroyed or permitted to be It defines slum dwellers asdestroyed hospitals, power plants, water plants,
everything a city needed, then imposed curfews so people could not work, barricaded towns and neighborhoods so nothing could move in or out.
Fortunately, at the time and later, all of this was reported.It defines slum dwellers as
Unfortunately, not enough people seemed to care about the reports.

But all the while, as the stories were revealed over the years, I kept thinking:
" This is OUR future. At some point, we WILL be next, in some fashion."

How many people live in Ca.or Nev. or Ariz.or DC., New York, Michigan, etc.meet the definition of slum dwellers:
those living in urban centers without one of the following:
durable structures to protect them from climate, ( the homeless)
sufficient living area,( tent cities)
sufficient access to water, access to sanitation facilities,( homeless and tent cities)
freedom from eviction.

That is 11 million people, if you break down the stats in the article's quoted Census report.

Now add the millions in this country living one check from eviction,

[bobbolink]

38. Thank you. That's a very good breakdown! I appreciate being remembered from time to time.

Although, it is not pleasant to think of myself as a "slum dweller". :(

Wonder when this country will take this seriously, and make sure everyone is housed????

[L0oniX]

8. Heavy Metal in Baghdad - Netfix ...recommend for info on Iraqi youth attitudes.

In 2005, Iraqi heavy metal outfit Acrassicauda put on a sold-out show in Baghdad. A year later, two journalists journeyed to Iraq to interview the band, only to find the rockers -- and the country -- torn apart by war. A fascinating glimpse into the daily life of young Iraqis dodging bullets in the streets, this documentary paints a portrait of a youth culture that somehow persists in the face of sectarian violence and war.

[OnyxCollie]

70. Great movie.

Iraqi metalheads are no different than any other metalheads.

Too bad the US has fucked up their lives more than Saddam. Well, at least now they have plenty of material for songs.

[Greyhound]

9. Too bad we're "looking forward" instead of looking at the crimes committed in our name. n/t

:kick: & R

[defendandprotect]

18. How anyone in our government is sleeping at night knowing probably even

more about all of this, I don't understand --

[Greyhound]

40. I think we've all met them, "It's a job".

There a lot more of them than there are of us.:shrug:

[awoke_in_2003]

47. they sleep on mattresses...

stuffed with money.

[Overseas]

34. Including the rampant war profiteering and massive failure of privatizing our military.

Dick Cheeeeneeeey's Grand Scheme.

[Greyhound]

78. Gotz to keep that gravy train running...

:puke:

:kick:

[onethatcares]

11. all it took was lies

and an upstart country destroyed another that has been around for thousands of years. all for a dumb ass revenge need.

we are not the shining city on the hill anymore dorothy.

[Major Hogwash]

12. Thank you George Bush. Maybe they'll erect a statue of him!!!!!

Since he liberated so many of them from their lives, their livlihood, and any hope of peace.

Saddam offered to leave Iraq before Operation Shock and Awe was launched.

[Major Hogwash]

14. George W Bush is a fucking war criminal!!! And so is Cheney!!!!

They should be arrested and turned over for trial at the Haugue!!

[defendandprotect]

17. Another case of US genocide against another nation ---

and, if Americans had been paying any attention 20 years ago -- or even more --

they'd realize that we had already then begun this process!!!

[Larry Ogg]

44. And all the time the naive and misinformed masses were being led to believe

that we were the beacon of Democracy, freedom and justice etc., but a paradox exist that says our exceptionalism was nothing more than a facade and that we have been being lied too big time, and we are still being lied too. The truth is that American foreign policy of aggression for profit against weaker and defenseless countries has been a disturbing and terrifying reality for many decades, but never mind that. How many times have the voters spoken against corrupt and criminal administrations from the voting poles, and how many elected or appointed criminals have been allowed to walk free, allowed to regroup, allowed to regain power and allowed to have their rain of terror again. Maybe I'm just being cynical but if the above scenario seems to be conventional Americanism, and added to that is denile...

[defendandprotect]

51. What you are saying is true . . . and we need to hear more of that here ....

this isn't "conspiracy-free America" -- and violence is the only way that the right wing

continues to hold onto power in this country --

We have innate wisdom -- each of us -- which whispers a challenge to these lies -- but

right wing propaganda evidently sweeps it away.

From the first insights into the "discovers" and the genocide vs the Native American we

had to suspect -- I remember wondering where those people went.

Unfortunately, we're still in the same gene pool.

Also, remember Reagan reinforcing that notion that we could have taken over the world

post WWII, but didn't.

Keep tellin' it -- !!



Patriarchy -- and its underpinning, organized patriarchal religion --

and its invention: Capitalism

= The Unholy Trinity

[WinkyDink]

19. Qui bono?

[MellowDem]

20. What complete, utter bullshit...

Where does the "fact" that the urban population living in slums in Iraq under Saddam Hussein was just below 20 percent? Hard to believe, considering a couple of things. One, the Iraq-Iran war and the economic sanctions on Iraq since 1990 made the economy of Iraq shitty as hell for decades on end until the invasion. Two, where are the numbers for the Saddam years? Where are they getting them from? Kinda important if you're going to make a comparision saying that Iraq was better off under Saddam.

Well, I checked out the alternet links, and I finally found a page at the UN Habitat site. Here's the link: http://www.unhabitat.org/categories.asp?catid=203

Look at those Iraq housing statistics. What do you notice? Ah yes. For one, they are estimates. And for another, they are estimates from 2001. And the estimate of those living in slums? 57%. So, if you are going to go by this report, the US has IMPROVED the plight of Iraqis! Kinda blows this whole shitty piece up. Also, the definition of "slum" is such that you could have everything but good sanitation, and you'd be living in a slum.

I wish I could also ask for where they got their figures on the doubling of poverty and sickness. But facts don't seem to matter in this propaganda piece.

Now I know to avoid those websites for any sort of fact-finding.

[Barack2theFuture]

25. We employed grotesque overkill in methodically destroying

Iraq's infrastructure since 1990. It is really incomprehensible to the American public just how thoroughly we have broken nearly every element of civilization there. It's truly LeMayesque. We literally bombed most Iraqis back to the stone age.

[PacerLJ35]

59. They are not in the stone age

I have photos of new luxury condos going up in parts of Iraq...nearly every place has electricity...those that do not probably didn't prior to us arriving either (there are some pretty isolated tribal villages in parts of the country). Some aspects of life are worse in Iraq now as compared to 2003, but many are better.

[JonLP24]

79. The roads

of thousands of pot holes and man sized roads. Nearly all the gaurdings you see on the side of the road is twisted and broken. There is destroyed infrastructure everywhere. Condos going up are not a common thing and I don't doubt it would be happening, especially in a dense place such as Baghdad. It wouldn't be happening when the roads aren't properly paved due to roadside bombs. But most of the cities and towns I've been through, you can see very poor conditions and you can see war torn damage most places in the country.

It is not as pretty as a picture you seem to be painting.

[PacerLJ35]

90. I've been through most of Iraq as well

And there are areas as you describe, but it would be disingenuous to describe the entire country like that.

[bertman]

27. Rachel Maddow (Bless her) dealt with this last Friday evening on her show. It's sad that

it came on a Friday night because it was very enlightening and very horrifying to see the condition we are leaving the country in.

The daytime temperatures are as high as 120° yet they do not have electricity to generate power to run air conditioners, make ice, pump water, run fans. The power is so intermittent that when it does come on it often blows out the electrical system in the houses and shops.


Here it's only in the 90's and people are complaining constantly about the heat and the humidity and how miserable it is.


If the old saying "You reap what you sow" is true, then the US of A is in for some very very bad payback.


Rec.

[MellowDem]

29. How did Iraqis survive for thousands of years without air conditioning?

Or ice, or water pumps, or fans....

As for the ol' "you reap what you sow", to believe that tripe you'd have to believe Iraq was one evil bastard to deserve what they got. And obviously the Jews sowed the Holocaust. Like I said, complete bullshit.

[bertman]

33. Oh, and how have Europeans and Americans survived for thousands of years without

air conditioning, MellowDem? Just imagine what your world would be like if you suddenly had electricity for an hour, maybe two, maybe no hours a day. You do realize that electricity powers the pumps that send the water to your tap, don't you? Or do you live on Pepsi Light? You do realize that electricity powers the pumps that pump water and sewage and that helps to clean the water and process the sewage, don't you. You do realize that your food will spoil without electricity or ice, don't you? You do realize that modern societies operate on electricity don't you?

You do realize that Iraq was considered a very modern society until we began our first invasion and followed with sanctions, don't you?

I guess you think that we Americans are entitled to invade any country that we say is a threat to us and purposely destroy its infrastructure, divvy up it's energy reserves, then leave when we think the time is right--not when the people of the nation are at least in some decent condition.

I challenge you to operate your computer without a steady supply of electrical power, MellowDem. Better yet, just voluntarily swear off all but two hours of electricity a day for a month and get back to me.

MellowDem, my ass. You're the one who's spouting complete bullshit.

[Desertrose]

89. Thanks bertman, you said it all for me. nt

[MellowDem]

93. Iraq was considered a modern society? Really?

By who? The statistics don't bare it out. You can pretend Iraq was a great place before the Iraq Iran war, or you can look at reality and realize it has been a pretty rough place for a long time, and never fully modernized.

The only bullshit I was calling out was the whole idea of "you reap what you sow", which is what it is, Old Testament bullshit.

[Diclotican]

98. MellowDem

MellowDem

Before the Iraqi war, when most americans was in frenzy about the posibility to attac " a gulty nation" who, in most eyes was behind 11 sept 2001 anyway, most becouse YOUR leders have been lying to you, from the get go, and many still belive the lies.. It was some, who warned against the war, and who told, really blunt at least on CNN Int, (who are wastly different from CNN USA, as the rest of the world want news, not propaganda) told that if US was to fuck up Iraq, they OWN Iraq, and have to make it posible for them to build their future

Now after allmoust a decade, Iraq is bust, really fucking bust, and US "own" Iraq, becouse of what US did, when they invanded, and in the years forward, have been doing with the country.. US made a mess out of Iraq, and therefore have the responsibility to clean up the acts.. Many americans, and suporters all over the world, are claiming all the chaos who have been more or less the norm in Iraq after "the liberation" in 2003, is Iraq itself gulty one.. But NO ONE TAKE INTO THE POINT, THAT US DOSEN'T HAD ONE GRIP OF IDEA WHAT TO DO AFTER IRAQ WAS "LIBERATED".. The republican Administration under GWB, had NO PLANS what so ever what to do with Iraq, and the plundring, the killings, the sivil war and so on... IS THE RESULT OF YOUR INCOMPETENCE AND IGNORANCE of Iraq from the get go..

US was in better shape in 1945, when they had a plan of what to do with Germany after the victory.. At least then, they had the balls to plan longer than to the victory parad and the celebration of ending of war.. And a decade after Germany was loosing the war, germany was indeed partner to NATO, and have their own military forces again.. (it happend in 1955, just a decade after world war two ended) Now in 2010, after a decade of warmongering in Iraq, the state are in no shape to be called sovernight, Iraq have not the military forces to keep their saftly on their own, and the country are in far worse shape than it was bfore Iraq was invanded.. US failed MISSRABLY IN IRAQ, and should be hold responsibile for their actions..

US OWN IRAQ, to the day IRAQ either can stand on her own feet again, or to you are trown out of the country, and have to flee all your 50.000 soldiers or so, who still are in Iraq, after the official claim that combat troops are out... Iraq are noe free country, as no country with respect for themself have 50.000 forreign combat troops, in large military camps inside their own soil.. Iraq is in any cases, your colonoy in the middle east....

Diclotican

[Diclotican]

99. MellowDem

MellowDem

Before the Iraqi war, when most americans was in frenzy about the posibility to attac " a gulty nation" who, in most eyes was behind 11 sept 2001 anyway, most becouse YOUR leders have been lying to you, from the get go, and many still belive the lies.. It was some, who warned against the war, and who told, really blunt at least on CNN Int, (who are wastly different from CNN USA, as the rest of the world want news, not propaganda) told that if US was to fuck up Iraq, they OWN Iraq, and have to make it posible for them to build their future

Now after allmoust a decade, Iraq is bust, really fucking bust, and US "own" Iraq, becouse of what US did, when they invanded, and in the years forward, have been doing with the country.. US made a mess out of Iraq, and therefore have the responsibility to clean up the acts.. Many americans, and suporters all over the world, are claiming all the chaos who have been more or less the norm in Iraq after "the liberation" in 2003, is Iraq itself gulty one.. But NO ONE TAKE INTO THE POINT, THAT US DOSEN'T HAD ONE GRIP OF IDEA WHAT TO DO AFTER IRAQ WAS "LIBERATED".. The republican Administration under GWB, had NO PLANS what so ever what to do with Iraq, and the plundring, the killings, the sivil war and so on... IS THE RESULT OF YOUR INCOMPETENCE AND IGNORANCE of Iraq from the get go..

US was in better shape in 1945, when they had a plan of what to do with Germany after the victory.. At least then, they had the balls to plan longer than to the victory parad and the celebration of ending of war.. And a decade after Germany was loosing the war, germany was indeed partner to NATO, and have their own military forces again.. (it happend in 1955, just a decade after world war two ended) Now in 2010, after a decade of warmongering in Iraq, the state are in no shape to be called sovernight, Iraq have not the military forces to keep their saftly on their own, and the country are in far worse shape than it was bfore Iraq was invanded.. US failed MISSRABLY IN IRAQ, and should be hold responsibile for their actions..

US OWN IRAQ, to the day IRAQ either can stand on her own feet again, or to you are trown out of the country, and have to flee all your 50.000 soldiers or so, who still are in Iraq, after the official claim that combat troops are out... Iraq are noe free country, as no country with respect for themself have 50.000 forreign combat troops, in large military camps inside their own soil.. Iraq is in any cases, your colonoy in the middle east....

Diclotican

[liberation]

54. I didn't think it was possible to pack so much intellectual dishonesty in just three lines...

... "glad" to see you rose to the challenge.

Heck, you even had time and space to pull a Godwin. Good grief.

[MellowDem]

94. Congrats, you just did!

Intellectual dishonesty at it's finest. Good grief. :rofl:

I already called out the bullshit of the OP and NOBODY responded, least of all you, because they are intellecutally dishonest, or, more likely, just don't give a shit and want to push their side regardless of truth. They like to do what you do, respond with personal attacks and nothing else, and then smugly pat themselves on the back. Good job! You internetz HERO! :silly:

[liberation]

97. And there you go, proving me wrong again.

You CAN pack even more intellectual dishonesty in 3 lines.

Congratulations? BTW, no this is not a challenge for you to go ahead and up the ante, I am already in awe of your capabilities.

Cheers.

[bobbolink]

39. But, but, but..... there are DUers who insist that NOBODY should have AC.

So, you see, the Iraqis are ahead of the game.

It's working out very well for them. :sarcasm:

[bertman]

45. Damn, bobbolink. I hadn't thought about it from that perspective.

"Leading the Way Into the Future Through Privation and Little Or No Electricity."

That could be their new national motto.

Kinda the opposite of the old GE slogan: Progress Is Our Most Important Product.

[bobbolink]

74. "Leading the Way Into the Future Through Privation and Little Or No Electricity."

Absolutely!

That is one thing about me being homeless.... (sing-song along with me...) My carbon footprint is smaller than your carbon footprint... neener, neener, neener....

I actually said that to one person..... I get so damned tired of the criticisms, and sometimes I just can't help myself. :evilgrin:

Between the hatred for poor folk on the right, and the sneering superiority on the left, we don't have much room left to stnnd on in peace.

[Uzybone]

30. "The American public has no idea....

you could have ended the sentence right there. Dumb ass country.

[joeybee12]

31. We Won! We Won! USA! USA! USA!

Wait, you mean screaming that at the top of my lungs doesn't change anything? How is that possible?


KNR

[Rex]

36. Decades of war and oppression will do that to a country.

I think that is why Big Brother is so scared to leave Iraq...then they cannot control the flow of information anymore. Then the true horrors will come out and go viral after the last troops leave...but not before a bloody civil war.

[BrklynLiberal]

37. The American govt has worked VERY hard to make sure the American public stays ignorant of the

horrendous damage done to the Iraqi people and the infrastructure.

Most probably have no idea how many Iraqi civilians lost their lives, their homes, their families..EVERYTHING

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article668840.ece

[BobTheSubgenius]

41. That list of horrors in the first para. is missing something, IMO.

DU

Edit: Uhhh....Depleted Uranium, that is. Just to be crystal clear; I don't think this site is ruining Iraq.

[inna]

42. Wow. I didn't know it was quite that bad.

Thank you again for your (sadly) enlightening posts, kpete.

[kpete]

43. you are welcome

peace, kp

[dogday]

48. Mission Accomplished

:thumbsdown: Another POS production brought to you by the Bush Cartel....

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

49. A glimpse into the mindset of...

the kids sent to commit these war crimes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIJlJkJE7go

[liberation]

53. Holy mother of...

... some of those soldiers don't just sound incredibly illiterate, but as if they were bordering mental retardation. Heck, one of the soldiers at the very beginning looks down right inbred.

The contrast of the American soldiers lack of intelligence and callousness and the level of destruction they are able to bear on people is just mind blowing. It is just too much to take, I could not finish the video honestly. What have they done in our name, and what have we allowed them to get away with.

[Axle_techie]

55. It is called mental conditioning

and one must undergo it and lose your sense of humanity to join our armed forces, these days.

[texastoast]

77. Orcs n/t

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

75. It is extremely disturbing when one starts...

...actually looking closely at the horrific crimes that have been committed in our names.

I can't imagine any true healing for the U.S. without an open official acknowledgment of our culpability, massive reparation payouts, and war crimes trials -- not holding my breath on any of this.

It is said that history repeats itself -- that's because it does:

http://www.crisispapers.org/Editorials/germany-1933.htm

[Kablooie]

52. And the conservatives are working on bringing this kind of "freedom" here to us now.

If they get their way, they will dismantle all social services, eliminate taxes for the uber-rich and totally de-regulate all large corporations and financial organizations.

Rampant poverty and illness for the majority of the country is a dream come true for the conservatives.

[Shining Jack]

56. K&R

[DeSwiss]

57. K&R n/t

[Enthusiast]

58. "You ain't seen nothing yet."

If the Pukes regain power expect another big war, this time in Iran. They have been crying for it for years now.

[4dsc]

60. Bush's Iraq is a disaster.

Let the world not forget what happened here and who is to blame.

[valerief]

64. And they care as much about us here as they do the poor folks in Iraq.

They only care about their money. Who's they? The world's puppetmasters and their agents.

[Javaman]

69. How will all of this play out 20 years from now?

we abandoned Afghanistan after the Soviets pulled out. They didn't forget us for doing that to them. When no one helped the hungry and destitute in that nation, in swept the taliban to take up the slack. Preaching the evils of America.

Will the same happen here in Iraq and again in Afghanistan?

We have certainly painted ourselves into the same corner, yet again.

We have laid havoc to both nations. And both nations have long memories.

At some point, like all empires, the US will collapse. Oh how I hope I'm long dead before that happens, because It won't be pretty.

[Submariner]

71. As Cheney says; "So"......Don't we all feel much safer with Saddam gone?

No...not really.

We never learn. LBJ lied us into Vietnam. The SCOTUS stole the election for a punk who got us into this Iraq mess.

You can bet there are now some pissed off parent-less Iraqis' thinking about getting revenge and killing Americans for decades to come, or blowing the new GW Bush Liebary to smithereens with an IED.

Thanks Bush.

[fascisthunter]

73. But "We are Bringing Them Freedom"

free to die, starve, hide to keep from being shot and desperate enough to beg for work. Just the way the right wing likes shit.

[DirkGently]

81. And this was all calculated to REDUCE terrorism? We have been

in the business of CREATING it. Which may not be an accident.

[LatteLibertine]

82. Meh

our nation largely created Saddam and Osama. They certainly funded them at the beginning.

On a side note, search the School of the Americas. They call it The Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation now.

Some of the graduates.

Argentina- Leopoldo Galtieri, Roberto Eduardo Viola
Bolivia- Hugo Banzer Suárez, Luis Arce Gómez
Chile- Raúl Iturriaga
Ecuador- Guillermo Rodríguez
El Salvador- Roberto D'Aubuisson
Guatemala- Marco Antonio Yon Sosa, Efrain Rios Montt
Panama- Manuel Noriega, Omar Torrijos
Peru- Vladimiro Montesinos, Juan Velasco Alvarado

[bullwinkle428]

84. But we got rid of Saddam, so it was all worth it!!

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[Blue_Tires]

85. The invasion was never about improving the lives of Iraqis in the first place....

It was to make certain people much, much wealthier...

[Desertrose]

88. You've got that right...how sad & how easy it was

to get the American people to go along with it...well...too damn many anyhow.

Not all of us actually ever bought that line of lies.

[Kalyke]

96. Sadly, I know all this. My ex husband's family is Arabic, ergo, my son is.

Many of them still live throughout the Middle East.

I don't speak much to this because... well... because it hurts so much. I can't physically watch the children in Iraq because they remind me of my son - who is safe, smart, in honors classes in middle school and worried about his thick curly hair.

Hhhhhhuuuuhhh...