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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 09:37 AM
Original message
We Are Cornered: There's No Way Out Without A Fight


by BAR executive editor Glen Ford


A corporate offensive is rolling down upon us, aimed at wholesale privatization of the public sector. If the Left has learned anything in the last year and a half, it should be that President Obama is Wall Street’s guy, having “delivered the highest return on corporate campaign investment in the history of bourgeois democracy.” In this struggle, the people will be left to their own devices.


There is no cavalry coming over the ridge to save the people from massed capital. Certainly not the Democrats, whose self-caged left wing now finds its marginalized encampments under lockdown by their own president’s hostile patrols, while the GOP and its Tea Party irregulars howl from the circling darkness. That’s what happens when progressives maneuver themselves onto the same side of the battlefield as Goldman Sachs, as they did with abandon in 2007-08, deliriously fighting their way into a cul-de-sac in which they are now surrounded.

The leftish brigades rallied to a commander who styled himself an incarnation of Abraham Lincoln, but turned out to be a General George McClellan, the Union’s first commander of the Army of the Potomac. McClellan was great at rousing the troops and putting his army on parade, but constantly overestimated his Confederate adversaries and, in Lincoln’s final estimation, refused to fight. The political roots of his reluctance to crush the Confederacy became clear after his dismissal when, in 1864, he challenged Lincoln on the Democratic “peace” party’s ticket. McClellan never really wanted to win the war, or, at the very least, saw victory in a very different way than Lincoln and Ulysses S. Grant.


It has long been clear that Barack Obama’s idea of victory required decisively defeating the Left of his own party. Everyone to his left is to be neutralized, while those to his right rate an open hand and endless concessions, the scenario from the very start of his health care “negotiations” with the drug and insurance industries. Victory in the racial arena means an end to race agitation, a Black stand-down, which remains largely in place. Success in war, not pursuit of peace, is his goal, one that will surely elude him, but not for lack of trying.


more: http://www.blackagendareport.com/?q=content/we-are-cornered-theres-no-way-out-without-fight

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griffi94 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
1. at this point
i don't even know who to fight.
it's gotten difficult to tell which side is which on a lot of issues.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. It's actually very clear - it's the Ruling Class against the rest of us.
Once you let go of the illusion that party designation matters, the real truth becomes starkly evident.

There's no war but the Class War.

sw
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. The 1% vs.
the 99%. But to put a face on it, I'd use Blankfein's, CEO of Goldboy Sucks. Or the Koch brothers...the mean ones, that is...Charlie and David, Charlie, in particular.

Corporations are the root of the problem, imho. Plus all of those Inherited Wealthy Idiots that have done absolutely nothing to earn that money.
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Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #9
70. That's why Pillars of the Earth seemed so modern n/t
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. You are so correct
The top just wants the bottom to fight among themselves and they can just sit back and watch.
They can then walk away with the spoils.
The far right will not realize what they are giving up until it is too late.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. AND to kill and be killed overseas.
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. And you're either part of the problem (the Horatio Alger-believin' useful idiots) . ..
. . . or part of the solution (DEMANDING this administration does what it SAID it would do).

Trickle Down, the CEO operators and it's Free Traitor advocates have to be kicked in the Laissez Fail grave and buried. That doesn't and never will work. We need to start equalizing America.
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #6
29. Yup. Exactly. Problem identified.
Now we have to do something about it.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
34. "There's no war but the Class War."
Edited on Sat Aug-28-10 02:01 PM by bobbolink
I think some of us have been trying to get that through to y'all for quite a while now.

Even now, on DU, I get chopped for saying that. Get called a "racist", etc., because I say that class is every bit as important as race, and in some ways, is much more difficult to tackle. Which, of course, is exactly what Martin Luther King said.

Now that maybe the muddleclass is understanding that it is about class..... just watch... it will only be about the muddleclass, and we poor will STILL be ignored.

I'd love to be wrong on that, but I seriously doubt it.

Prove me wrong.

Please.
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another saigon Donating Member (450 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #6
36. very well said sw!
'let them eat cake!'



http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts07302010.html


-snip-

The Guardian (UK) reports that according to US government reports, one million American children go to bed hungry, while the Obama regime squanders hundreds of billions of dollars killing women and children in Afghanistan and elsewhere.

The Guardian’s reporting relies on a US government report from the US Department of Agriculture, which concludes that 50 million people in the US--one in six of the population--were unable to afford to buy sufficient food to stay healthy in 2008.

US Department of Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack said that he expected the number of hungry Americans to worsen when the survey for 2010 is released.

Today in the American Superpower, one of every six Americans is living on food stamps.
The Great American Superpower, which is wasting trillions of dollars in pursuit of world hegemony, has 22% of its population unemployed and almost 17% of its population dependent on welfare in order to stay alive.

The world has not witnessed such total failure of government since the final days of the Roman Empire. A handful of American oligarchs are becoming mega-billionaires while the rest of the country goes down the drain.

And the American sheeple remain acquiescent.

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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-29-10 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #36
44. It's FUBAR.
x(
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #6
65. No war between nations, no peace between classes.
That's my motto.

(great post!)
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
2. k & r
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
3. A sign of the times...
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
4. LOL... what a bunch of claptrap nonsense....
"President Obama is Wall Street’s guy"

...which is why they are spending 3-to-1 for the Republicans this campaign season.
...which is why they spent millions trying to defeat Financial Regulatory reform.

"self-caged left wing now finds its marginalized encampments under lockdown by their own president’s hostile patrols"

...which is why the left wing is out there constantly bashing the President... because they're in "lockdown".

"It has long been clear that Barack Obama’s idea of victory required decisively defeating the Left of his own party."

...it's amazing that people believe this shit.




Oh... it's blackagendareport.com... nevermind, I understand now.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. +1,000
wish I could recommend your reply.
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Big Bill Jefferson Donating Member (33 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. The facts speak pretty clearly on this
Four out of Obama's top five contributors were financial industry giants - Goldman Sachs (571,330 dollars), UBS AG (364,806 dollars), JPMorgan Chase (362,207 dollars) and Citigroup (358,054 dollars).

Simply because it was done by bundling contributions doesn't change this fact.

Obama was an act of system legitimizing brilliance. What his campaign did do effectively was neutralize populist dissent and siphon this grass roots energy into conventional party politics.

We've seen the result. Anyone see the anti-war movement lately? How about an anti-corporate movement in light of all the foreclosures and job loss? Nowhere to be seen. People put their faith in Obama and the results there also speak for themselves.

Obama is a company man.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-29-10 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #16
53. +1
"Obama is a company man."
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-29-10 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #16
54. Here's Glen Ford at the Anti-war conference...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_1FwMcs2gc&feature=player_embedded

On the Black is back coalition, The Antiwar movement is coming back too...
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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-10 03:11 AM
Response to Reply #16
58. Well, he had FAR more contributions from regular people and his number one organzation
That contributed was a University. So what if he got some donations of under a million from some corporations. IT's really easy to just point at a list of companies who gave him money and jump to conclusions, but you need to put it in context.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-10 03:38 AM
Response to Reply #16
59. Someone already posted the response.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #16
66. Oh but didn't you hear? It was all the little people at Goldman Sachs doing the donating!
:sarcasm:

welcome to DU! :hi:
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
42. Wall Street puts their money where they think it will get the biggest returns.
They're betting that brand Republican will outperform in the next quarter.

Of course, they were quite successful in getting the White House to water down financial reform. Money well spent.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-10 03:39 AM
Response to Reply #42
60. That's a pretty good response
to the people who think Wall Street donations to Obama somehow prove he's their puppet.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9032267&mesg_id=9033470
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-29-10 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #4
49. FUCK FACTS !!!! /sarcasm
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-29-10 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #4
55. "Oh....it's YOU!"
Edited on Sun Aug-29-10 10:31 AM by chill_wind
>Oh...it's blackagendareport.com.. nevermind, I understand now.<

Obama's not Wall Street's guy? His economic team, from the inside out, his sending in proxies like Laura Tyson during the blank check bailout wranglings before he was even in office, his insistence on Bernanke 2.0, his refusal to listen to any progressive economists anywhere on the planet from day 1, to name only a few hints, would strongly suggest otherwise.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-10 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #55
61. Hey now, let's not let documented facts get in the way....

Know them by the company they keep

or

"Lay down with swine...." }(
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
5. Good.
I'm sick of running from these fucks.
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
7. Do people really believe this crap?
Jeez what a divisive little man who wrote that.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. He's bigger
than you. Plus his eyes are open to reality.

Denial is a powerful tool...as is putting one's head up one's arse.
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Most people are bigger than me, I'm a short person.
I've never needed a windowectomy....that is purely available for those who think believing the negative is a positive. It isn't. Denial you say?
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Reality today
is not so good, shorty. Look at unemployment, outsourced jobs never to return, foreclosures, record-breaking debt.

Are you blind? The Empire is in Decline. Unless of course you're one of those little rich boyz whose done nothing but inherit wealth and shortness.
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. The empire? How quaint.
It's a shame that a deep recession can't be recognized for what it is....but it's easier to demand instant gratification rather than realizing that incremental steps are delivering the way forward.

By the way, I'm female, not rich, nothing inherited.
Thanks for the laughs.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. You call me a republican and then go away mad.
See ya around.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Why Not??? I Myself Don't Think Many Here AT DU Are Looking At
REALITY because they are so busy DEFENDING the indefensible! We are in trouble as a Nation now, real trouble, and if we don't stop laying "follow the leader" I fear for us all!!

Time to take to the streets and DEMAND Democrats act like Democrats have done in the past, and WORK for "we the people!!"

Seems to me that the less fortunate of us are TRULY, TRULY being ignored and as long as we sit by and let it happen, then we are doomed!

Strong words, FOR SURE... but I'm really at the end of my rope!!
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Why not call me a repub? Because I'm a liberal Democrat.
It's too easy to call names and to demand people do what you want...it makes the movement martyr like in assuming no one else wants the end result, but is not going to do the line in the sand bit. I don't know of anyone being ignored on the left, but inconceivable demands aren't the answer. Legislation is that only thing that will get those end results.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. "I don't know of anyone being ignored on the left...." Dean. Howard Dean.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. I think that
I know you well enough to say with confidence that you are a good liberal democrat. I also believe that legislation is very import. However, I also believe that the OP has merit.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. The American Dream -
keep chasing it. It's bound to show up some day.
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Hawkowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #20
41. You have to be asleep to believe it
George Carlin
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JoseGaspar Donating Member (391 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #14
37. There are two "deep recessions"...
There is the bursting of the bubble, accompanied by bailouts, the credit crunch, the collapse of the real estate market, etc. - the commercial crisis... that recession WILL end sooner or later... but not nearly as soon as the unconcerned might wish.

And then there are the underlying causes of that "deep recession": no increase in real income for nearly a generation, the explosion of real estate and consumer debt to compensate for declining aggregate demand, globalization which has come to mean capital export for commodity re-import... even War. That "deep recession" will not end soon, if at all, nor will it result in a return to "incremental steps delivering the way forward", whether that phrase was ever real or not.

You can read a spectrum of economists ranging from Krugman to Greenspan himself on how fundamental the structural changes will be. You can go to sources as moderate as the U.N. to draw conclusions about what the worldwide implications of the "way forward" are now.

Or you can blithely wrap your hopes around a "reality" which has completely changed, and of which, even its nostalgic memory is fading quickly.

Maybe you are exempt.

I doubt it.

In the meantime, think about this: you imply that the demands of those who are hurting are the same as an unreasonable desire for "instant gratification" and that the proper course is to "have patience".

Did your politics begin on such themes... or, have you come so far?

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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #14
67. Incremental steps towards what? The abyss?
Empire is "quaint"? What a throwback from the "70s"? We're all beyond that now, right? :sarcasm:

If you're a working-class female and you're standing by this slaughter by "austerity", then you're a sad fool. Look up the term "primitive accumulation." It's called seizure of the commons and it's what Obama's making possible. No Republican would ever be permitted to do so, but a Democrat--oh, it must be okay! :eyes:
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another saigon Donating Member (450 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
32. at this point
to not believe this "crap", is to do so at one's peril.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
21. K&R nt
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
25. When the Working Class & The Poor realize that...
...we have more in common with each other than we have in common with the Leadership of BOTH political parties, "CHANGE" will be possible.

As long as The RICH Elite can continue to frame the debate as Republicans vs Democrats with the "Centrists" (Obama/Hillary) representing the Liberal Left Edge of the Democratic Party, we will continue to lose.


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone



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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Touche' You Said It, I Believe It!!! n/t
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #25
68. +1
I won't vote for a centrist. A winning vote for a centrist is a vote that lost ground.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
28. Mankind must destroy Capitalism or else Capitalism will destroy Mankind
Our society is barreling head-long into disaster
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Scruffy1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Agreed
Their is no reforming this outmoded system. We keep trying to fix it but when we get it working it is at its most dangerous. This is why the uber rich have become so testy. They know what the real stakes are. The only reason they have so much is that others have so little.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Technological unemployment makes The System unsustainible in any case.
Ideally, improved productivity from technology should cause people to have to work less for the same money, but the dynamics of Capitalism makes this impossible.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #28
69. +1
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
33. knr
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MaeScott Donating Member (295 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
35. K &R. nt
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anaxarchos Donating Member (963 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
38. K&R n/t.
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Panaconda Donating Member (672 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
39. As we study our descent into hell we are told by some
but don't, don't use one regime because we are not even close!

In this case it is the Nazis, who are so outside the realm of history that we should not do that.

The logic-

Well they killed 13 million people in the concentration camp system, give or take two million. I am just using the accepted number.

So what regimes can we use?

Sadam's Iraq? Nope, or we might accidentally validate the GOP propaganda that the place under Sadamn was terrible... never mind that it was... even if we managed to help it go to an even darker night.

Hmm El Salvador? Nicaragua? Nope, they were minor events and our hands were in there...

Chile: The same jerk of the knee reaction our see about Germany you will see with Chile, especially among right wingers in this country (and I may add some of its best special forces and commandos now work for BlackWater USA...)

Hmm how about Red China, oh wait, most folks don't know a thing about it and it is foreign, I tell you...

So if you look for patterns and you use the ones that people are familiar then you get knee jerk reactions.

So where exactly are we?

We are living in a society where fear is quite pervasive

Where the IRS has been used to harass people the same way it was done in 1972

Where we have a chain of secret and not so secret prisons

Where we have torture accepted in law

Where we have surveillance of the population

Where we have random detainment and release

and on, and on and on

But don't let this new reality hit you.

We are free... we like to tell ourselves, since we can post here... with no fear

We are free, since we can go to work on Monday morning and not worry about it

We are free... since it has not affected us

In the meantime we have increasing measures closing our borders

And a method that has been used by all the governments I described above...

Don't pay attention to the man behind the curtain

You are free and you should not concern yourself

After all, since you have done nothing, you've got nothing to fear RIGHT?
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Wow. Welcome to DU
Very nice post. I wish I could recommend it.
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Panaconda Donating Member (672 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-29-10 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #40
48. Thanks
I'll post it.
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
43. well deserved K&R
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-29-10 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
45. Why is this junk posted on a Democratic message board?
Edited on Sun Aug-29-10 12:31 AM by BzaDem
"It has long been clear that Barack Obama’s idea of victory required decisively defeating the Left of his own party."

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

If you think that the left of the Democratic party is somehow being "defeated" by Obama, you should wait until Republicans take power. Then you will re-learn what "being defeated" really is, up close and personal.
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-29-10 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #45
47. You have an odd sense of humor.

None of what you said is funny in the least.
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-29-10 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #47
50. It's only funny how false the quote is. n/t
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-29-10 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #45
51. Please explain, with details, how either party
will help folks with incomes under $250K per year. Please be specific and give concrete ECONOMIC examples of things Obama has done. And, no, Lily Ledbetter does not apply here.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-10 03:05 AM
Response to Reply #51
57. lol. lily ledbetter. she's everywhere.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #57
72. OH! The Lily Ledbetter Signature! That bold act of statesmanship....
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #51
62. HCR will help people with incomes under 250k/year more than any other bill since Medicare.
It provides 200 billion per year in subsidies for people making up to 88k/year for a family of 4. That dwarfs anything Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, or Bush II ever did.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. Why would anyone want subsidies for the purchase of a shitty useless product?
Where in HCR does it say that insurance companies have to pay any particular claim?
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #63
64. I don't know, perhaps because the product is mandated to not be shitty or useless?
Edited on Wed Sep-01-10 01:51 AM by BzaDem
Have you ever thought of that? Or are you just repeating talking points to help your narrative?

HCR mandates what benefits will be covered under each category of plan, it bans denial of coverage based upon pre-existing conditions or rescinding coverage when one gets sick, and sets up independent appeals boards to review particular claims that get denied. It also allows plans to be banned entirely from the exchange should they violate the rules.

Then again, that would contradict your non-reality-based narrative, so the cognitive dissonance will cause you to come up with some more inaccurate statements about the law.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #64
71. And the benefits are shitty for untermenschen who can only afford to be Bronze or Dirt people
Banning rescission is utterly useless. California has done this for many years, and the mass murderers who run insurance companies rescind anyway because the fines are cheaper than paying for the health care of the expensively sick.

Almost as useless is an appeals board. The insurers will always deny claims if they have good reason to believe that the patient will die before the appeals process. See Nataline Sarkisian, for instance. CIGNA changed its mind, but she died before that.

In the reality based world, private health insurance is s useless industry of bloodsuckers who add no value at all to health care, and not allowing us an alternative is in effect fascist.
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #71
75. It's becoming quite clear that basically the opposite of everything you say about HCR is correct.
So much so that a post by you to the contrary is evidence by itself that HCR works in the exact opposite way that you pretend it does. You are basically spewing propaganda at this point.

For example, HCR allows the BANNING of insurance companies that rescind from doing business in the exchange. This goes way beyond whatever state law fines exist. But the mere fact that you claim that the anti-recission part of HCR is useless is evidence on its own that it is actually useful and enforceable.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. "Allowing" isn't the same as "requiring"
There is no enforcement mechanism at all, and given the power that insurance companies have demonstrated in preventing any regulation by medical loss ratio by states so far, they will use that power to prevent state insurance commissioners from banning them. If there are only a couple of companies offering any benefits in a state, what do you think would happen to an insurance commissioner that banned one of them.

Shitty insurance does NOT give you access to health care, period. If you have to pay 40% of your costs, you will avoid neccessary care because you don't have the money for it.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-29-10 01:29 AM
Response to Original message
46. Kick - already rec'd. (nt)
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-29-10 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
52. Kicking this...
sorry I missed time to rec.
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-29-10 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
56. k
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IScreamSundays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 02:22 AM
Response to Original message
73. Who didn't see this shit coming??
I fucking give up
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 04:20 AM
Response to Original message
74. K!
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