Arne Duncan addressing the (Sharpton) rally NOW. C-span1. n/t

[femmocrat]

[malaise]

1. Pastors if your churches are packed on Sunday

and empty Monday to Saturday you are part of the problem.

I agree 100%

[Catshrink]

3. Even if people have to work, help their kids with homework, etc.?

Typical of Arne, assigning blame when there are other causes. The man can't buy a clue.

[Smarmie Doofus]

6. Bullseye. nt

[boppers]

20. You can't do homework in a church?

When people give up on their job because there are "other causes" for their poor job performance, it's time to find them a new job. Every current teacher/pastor/social worker I know who goes into tough conditions knows ahead of time that tough conditions are *not* an excuse for not doing their job.

[Catshrink]

21. It seems that you missed the meaning of this thread.

Arne is accusing the pastor of being a failure for having an empty church during the week. I suggested that the congregants might be busy with their lives - their jobs, helping their kids, etc. but yet, Arne would still label the pastor a failure because of his congregants other responsibilities.

Your response is nonresponsive to this comment but just another chance to praise Obama and teacher-bash.

[boppers]

33. I think we all might view church in different ways.

I can't speak for Arne, but I think I get his point, a pastor who only contributes one day a week is doing far less than one who contributes everyday... and in this current economy, even more so.

[Catshrink]

34. Saying a pastor only works 1 day a week is like saying teachers only work when their kids are in

class. When does the sermon get written? When does he or she counsel congregants and visit homes or those in hospitals? There is far more to ministry than showing up on Sunday. Again, you missed it.

[boppers]

39. I take it you've never met clergy or teachers like that, then.

Some people of the faith, and education, take it as a serious calling, and spend every waking hour of their lives on it. They're more than willing to die alone, penniless, and destitute in the name of helping others.

Yet, other pastors/teacher/social workers/etc. just "phone it in", and cash their checks. They're more worried about personal comfort than work and sacrifice.

When the latter creeps into the ranks of the former, the institution loses out, as does everyone who depends on it. Arne's calling out the latter, methinks...

[proud2BlibKansan]

67. My uncle was a priest and he worked more hours than anyone I have ever known

And he really wasn't in the church all that often. He was in a small rural parish and only said Mass once a week. But according to Arne, he wasn't doing his job.

[boppers]

75. Was his church empty 6 days a week?

No AA meetings there? No food drives? No scouts? No neighborhood watch? No funerals? No weddings? No Baptisms? No survivors groups?

[proud2BlibKansan]

77. It was a rural parish so yes, it was empty most of the time.

He was in his car most of the time, going out to work with his parishioners. There were a few weddings and funerals every year but not all that often. We spent summers there and had family reunions there too. There were many family events I can remember when we were there at the church and he was gone to help a parishioner 30 miles away.

[bobbolink]

37. !

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Obviously you don't belong to a church, or know any pastors. Don't look now, but I think MLK is about to thunk you on the head...

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Catshrink]

41. Doesn't know any teachers, either.

All pastors and teachers must be condemned because of very small percentage who don't belong in the profession. Yawn. That's a RW talking point that we're hearing far too often on DU - usually by the Obama diehards.

[bobbolink]

43. Hey, come on , now....

Ignorance is fun!

:toast:

[boppers]

45. Who's making that talking point?

"All pastors and teachers must be condemned because of very small percentage who don't belong in the profession."

I didn't try to make that point, you did.

As far as not knowing teachers, I've got 5 in my family, so, maybe you're missing the point I'm making.

[Catshrink]

48. you wrote

Some people of the faith, and education, take it as a serious calling, and spend every waking hour of their lives on it. They're more than willing to die alone, penniless, and destitute in the name of helping others.

Yet, other pastors/teacher/social workers/etc. just "phone it in", and cash their checks. They're more worried about personal comfort than work and sacrifice.

When the latter creeps into the ranks of the former, the institution loses out, as does everyone who depends on it. Arne's calling out the latter, methinks... "

You're doing what Arne does - focus attention on the few who don't live up to the astronomical expectations placed on them and thereby magnifying their abundance in the eyes of those who don't know. The fact that you had to bring up the miscreants speaks volumes.

[boppers]

53. You took "Some" and turned it into "All"

I take it you know those are different things, but you chose to focus on "All", when that (quite clearly) wasn't being said.

So: Straw man.

[boppers]

42. Wall of smilies is wrong.

I've been part of quite a few different congregations, from those clergy working in the trenches everyday, to those who downloaded their sermons off of the internet on Saturday night after spending the week fishing.

The mask of piety is just that... a mask. Sometimes the face behind it actually lives up to it.

Sometimes.

Other times they're just pedophiles looking for an easy supply of children.

Other times they're people struggling just as much as you or I, and may be lazy, greedy, slothful, etc. MLK was in this group, a man with both deep flaws, and great works.

[bobbolink]

44. Beck believes in stereotypes, too.

[boppers]

46. Beck's biggest problem is stereotypes.

"All teachers are good!" is just as ignorant and flawed as "All teachers are evil!".

Both come from shallow, empty, thinking.

[bobbolink]

47. Well, I have to admit.. you were very good at overcoming "all pastors are good".

[boppers]

54. The same applies to teachers.

One of the best teachers I ever had was also one of the worst teachers I ever had... he used to grade while getting drunk, and I once got a B+ for an opening and closing essay page, with 31 filler pages of random words. In class, the guy was fantastic/horrible, pushing kids to the point of tears in an effort to get their critical thinking skills engaged.

He was the also the one who taught me not to confuse generalities, which seems to have come up in this thread. :)

[Catshrink]

56. Ouch. Oh. Ouch.

Says the person who endorses firing all the teachers in a school because of the erroneously reported scores in one subject.

Oh, ouch. How will I ever survive? The horror!

[boppers]

59. Endorses?

Please define.

[Catshrink]

61. You cited this

"Teachers, OTOH.... well, the was that whole Rhode Island dust up, where 92% failure rates were acceptable."

You know what happened, and by presenting it the way you did, you endorsed the mass firing of teachers. It's down thread. Don't you remember, or are you just obfuscating? Sorry. You can't walk back the implication. Sheesh, you're as bad as McConnell saying he'd take Obama at his word that he's not a Muslim.

You're not fooling anyone.

[boppers]

65. Nope, I didn't say "mass firing" was the best resolution.

Maybe that's your brain making connections that mine didn't, and assuming that mine has the same connections. You can't fairly present what you think my view is, if you do not understand it. Maybe you think it has that implication, that seems possible.

Hint: There are more than two possibilities.

[Catshrink]

57. Just as bad as saying Obama can do no wrong.

I know of no teacher, btw, who ever claimed that all teachers are good. In fact, I was instrumental in getting a bad one removed last year.

[boppers]

62. Agreed, somewhat.

How would the teacher's unions feel about firing their worst 5% (for example), though?

How does one go about even accurately *measuring* such a thing?

[Catshrink]

64. Why choose 5%?

Why not 1% or 20%? Oh right, that's what Duncan wants to do. But first he wants to pay publishing companies big big bucks to write tests. People in "ivory towers" who know nothing about classroom education, differentiated instruction, cultural bias in education, etc. writing tests to evaluate teachers - one test to judge them all. St. Arne, with St. Barack's blessing, think this is the way to go. Do you really think you should judge a teacher in a poor urban school with its myriad of social problems the same as a teacher in a wealthy suburban school? By scores on the same test?

Teachers unions believe in due process to avoid arbitary firings due to one parent complaints or personality conflicts with administrators. Doctors and lawyers have more rigorous processes in place to disbar or revoke licenses. Are you aligned with those who think the teachers' unions are big bad evil entities that interfere with education? I know the answer to that.

[boppers]

69. Phrase by phrase:

-"Why not 1% or 20%?"
It was a totally arbitrary number. I work in a field where the washout rate is much higher, about 80%, but to dump 80% of our teachers overnight seems nightmarishly stupid as first glance. So I picked a smallish roundish number out of thin air.

-"Oh right, that's what Duncan wants to do."
I'm curious as to where *he* got that number, or if he just invented it (as I did).

-"But first he wants to pay publishing companies big big bucks to write tests."
Oh, I know all about this lobby/industry. They're pretty shameless and and sham-full. It's not just the testing consultants, it's the "turnaround" industry, the "training" industries, the "metrics" industries, the "career education" industries, etc.

-"People in "ivory towers" who know nothing about classroom education, differentiated instruction, cultural bias in education, etc. writing tests to evaluate teachers - one test to judge them all."
This, I haven't seen, as most states seem to be doing different things, depending on the state. There's a general framework, but the different RttT proposals vary *wildly*.

-"St. Arne, with St. Barack's blessing, think this is the way to go."
I'm not too big on religious saints.

-"Do you really think you should judge a teacher in a poor urban school with its myriad of social problems the same as a teacher in a wealthy suburban school? By scores on the same test?"
Nope. Why do you ask?

-"Teachers unions believe in due process to avoid arbitary firings due to one parent complaints or personality conflicts with administrators. Doctors and lawyers have more rigorous processes in place to disbar or revoke licenses."
So, why the disparity in rigor?

-"Are you aligned with those who think the teachers' unions are big bad evil entities that interfere with education? I know the answer to that."
You know what they say about assumptions? Yeah. That.

[proud2BlibKansan]

68. Why set a threshold?

Why not just for the ones who need to go? In some districts that might be 5%, in others it might be only one teacher. In the majority of schools where I have taught, there haven't been any that need to go.

[boppers]

73. It was arbitrary, and invented.

In some districts it might be 95%, in others, 0%.

You have made a good point about it being based on criteria ("the ones who need to go"), though, what would those criteria be?

[proud2BlibKansan]

78. All districts have criteria in place. There are evaluations, performance plans,

job targets. If a teacher fails all of these, the district can then legally fire him/her. The problem is that most administrators don't follow up on their end and get all the paperwork completed. I've seen it many times. Most of the time it's a principal just harassing the teacher and it's a good thing the principal fails to follow through. But last year, there was one who needed to go. And sure enough, she's still teaching.

[boppers]

86. How does one "fire a school", though?

If it's systemically bad from the principal down, how does one institute reform without damaging the career of the art teacher who wasn't corrupt?

[proud2BlibKansan]

87. You don't fire the entire staff

If your math scores are down, getting rid of the cafeteria ladies isn't going to do anything to increase achievement.

We teachers say this over and over but it is true: if you want to improve schools in high poverty communities, fix poverty. Provide social services like health care. Help parents pay utility bills. I've had two phone calls already this week from parents needing help paying electric bills and we haven't even started school yet.

We teach the whole child. If he is hungry, he can't learn. If his tooth hurts, he needs to go to the dentist before he can learn his multiplication facts. Until we recognize those factors and our failure as a society to address poverty, student achievement is not going to rise dramatically.

[Catshrink]

98. I honestly think some people are incapable of understanding that.

[proud2BlibKansan]

110. They think we are making excuses

And the truth is if there were any excuses, we are smart people. We would be offering them. LOL

[boppers]

111. Math-deficient celery is being served!

er... just trying for some levity in an angry thread.

[Catshrink]

112. ...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[proud2BlibKansan]

114. There needs to be a sugar content

Kids like sugary foods. :)

[boppers]

115. Celery with sugar topping?

Maybe frosting?

[Catshrink]

55. That's some fucked up opinion there.

explains so very much.

[MichiganVote]

25. And everyone of those roles KNOW there ARE going to be some lost causes.

The only ones who don't seem to have that figured out are the people who DO NOT do these jobs and sometimes any job at all.

[boppers]

35. "Some Children Left Behind" just doesn't have the same ring to it.

One of the frustrating things about this fight is the near intractable posturing involved.

[Catshrink]

36. NO, the frustrating thing is the non-educators telling

those who've been teaching successfully for years what works in education. You wouldn't have the audacity to say these things to a medical or legal professional, would you? Go ahead, tell a doctor he or she isn't doing the job right and that you know a better way or that they only work when YOU happen to see them talking to a patient.

:rofl:

[boppers]

50. When 92% of a doctor's teenage patients die, they should expect scrutiny.

They don't hide behind a doctor's union, demanding that their medical records should be free from any scrutiny, and complain that any additional training, or examination of their work, would constitute an undue burden.

Teachers, OTOH.... well, the was that whole Rhode Island dust up, where 92% failure rates were acceptable.

Lawyers can get disbarred, Doctors can lose their medical license, and teachers...?

[Catshrink]

51. Again, you're buying the RW talking points.

Do you know what was going on in that school? Do you know the gains that were made when measured by other methods? No. In fact, great progress was made. Why did the art teacher get fired? And the lunch lady? What role did they play in the RI school? Do you even know the issues?

Your ignorance is showing.... "bad" teachers do get fired, more easily than doctors and lawyers. You're just using this as an opportunity to union and teacher bash.

I get it - all praise Obama, the most perfectly wonderful president ever.

[boppers]

58. Assumptions are dangerous things.

-"Do you know what was going on in that school?"
Yup. Huge migrant population, most of the kids spoke Spanish, most of the teachers didn't. That kind of makes things difficult.

-"Do you know the gains that were made when measured by other methods? No."
Wrong, their scores *were* slightly improving year over year, but they were still incredibly low.

-"In fact, great progress was made."
"Great" is relative.

-"Why did the art teacher get fired? And the lunch lady? What role did they play in the RI school?"
Because rather than teachers working more hours for the same pay, the union said that they wanted to be paid more. Since there are 4 options invoked for a failing school, and one of them is to fire *everybody*, and then re-hire up to 50% of the staff, that was the option taken, as the "we work more" option was being refused by the teachers.

-"Do you even know the issues?
Yeah, I followed this one pretty closely.

-"Your ignorance is showing.... "bad" teachers do get fired, more easily than doctors and lawyers. You're just using this as an opportunity to union and teacher bash. "
I wasn't talking about being fired, I was talking about being banned from the profession entirely. Doctors and Lawyers get fired too, I was talking about losing your license.

[proud2BlibKansan]

70. No, the additional work option was NOT refused by those teachers

You need to get your facts straight on this story. The teachers did NOT refuse to work more hours. They had the audacity to expect to be PAID for additional work. Just like a doctor would be paid for working more, or a lawyer, or an accountant. Or a clerk at 7-11.

The district eventually agreed to rehire the teachers and pay them for the additional hours. If it was such a horrible demand, then why did the district agree to it?

[boppers]

76. If you read my posts before responding, the conversation is more effective.

"Because rather than teachers working more hours for the same pay, the union said that they wanted to be paid more."

That's what I, and you, have said. There is no conflict here, or facts that need to be straightened.

They refused to do additional work for the same pay.

[proud2BlibKansan]

79. It was additional work for no pay.

Would you agree to work more hours for no pay?

[Catshrink]

81. I've concluded something important here.

Quicksand.

[boppers]

83. I do *lots* of work for no pay.

Look at the top of your screen, in the URL bar.

It likely ends with "php", and then some arguments.

I, and thousands of others, did that. We created a new programming language for the internet.

For free.

Did MLK or Ghandhi demand "hazard pay"? Did FDR demand "overtime" if he worked over 40 hours a week?

No.

People who care about the future sacrifice, and often do it for a meager wage, and give away their time.

We're thinking about more than ourselves.

You can do it too!

[Catshrink]

84. You're saying that teachers should work for crap wages to sacrifice?

Is that what you think? Do you think doctors should sacrifice and work for minimum wage. Lawyers and accountants too?

You don't think teachers should be paid a salary that allows them to cover their housing, transportation, utilities, and other living expenses? Just who do you think would teach? How many teachers do you think you could attract? Oh you'll get plenty of the Teach for America types, with 5 weeks of boot camp. Is that how much you value the education of our children?

Just so you know, teachers work incredibly long hours for no pay -- doctors, lawyers, and accountants bill for their time, teachers can't do that. So don't hold yourself so fucking superior.

Incredible, absolutely incredible. A low-wage, union despising Democrat.

Hmmmmm will she walk that one back? Try to wiggle out? Deny saying any such thing?

[boppers]

88. I think you should work for the wages you want, and be treated that way.

If you make the US average wage (25k a year), that's one thing. If you make more than that, expect scrutiny.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States

I think doctors, lawyers, and accountants should be accountable to their wages, as well.

I think teachers should be paid commensurate with their workload. A particle physics teacher working with 20 post-grad students... and a kindergarten teacher with 20 students learning letters... have *very* different workloads. They also require very different backgrounds, and amounts of knowledge.

That being said, I have never met a homeless teacher.

[proud2BlibKansan]

90. I've worked with homeless teachers

One just last year.

How many free hours should she have put in?

[boppers]

96. How many "free hours" did she have?

I try for at least half of my free time, but if she was homeless, she might have less.

Alternately, she might have more. Dunno.

We give what we can, when we can, hopefully.

[Catshrink]

99. What kind of la-la land do you live in?

That you can condescend to tell others how to live their lives? You are seriously one screwed up individual.

[boppers]

103. Ah, judgement.

Wheee!

[Catshrink]

104. Right. You are much more fluent in rendering judgements about other people

what they should earn and do with their time. Other than that?

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[boppers]

107. Well, your field of smilies made deciphering your argument harder.

Are you saying that people shouldn't charge a wage, or what?

[Catshrink]

108. You're saying people should volunteer. I'm saying teachers should earn a living wage.

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[boppers]

109. Hint: repeating an argument through a smilie is not making a point.

If I ROFL 100, 200, or 5000 times, the discussion does not advance.

[Catshrink]

113. ...

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[Catshrink]

100. No clue.

No fucking clue.

[proud2BlibKansan]

89. Like I don't already??

Would you like to know how many hours I worked off the clock this week alone? Or today? On a Saturday? You know how many teachers were in my building working today?

Should I get out my receipts for school supplies from this past week alone?

I have furnished for my classroom a TV, VCR, printer and air conditioner. Paid for out of my pocket. Then there are way too many books to count.

Fuck you and your implication that teachers who expect to be paid for hours their employer orders them to work are just selfish. What the FUCK have you ever done to help the kids in YOUR community? Or are you too busy bitching at the teachers??

And there are people here who actually wonder why we teachers are so pissed off. :grr:

[boppers]

95. Fuck *me* for caring about others?

You're directing your fire in the wrong way.

I can absorb it, no problem. Having done everything from wiring up every classroom in schools to working on an OS and GUI designed for K-12 kids, I can take it.

You're angry. I hear it.

I'm not your target.

[Name removed]

97. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MichiganVote]

93. So tell us, do you buy shoes, clothing and other materials for your clients?

Do you visit their homes after hours?

Do you relinquish your lunch or dinner hours?

Get screamed at?

Lied to and about?

Do your clients threaten you? Shoot at you?

When you do your work are there 30 to 40 clients in the room expecting the same or better service?

Is your salary or medical information published for public view?

Are your clients deaf, visually impaired, emotionally impaired or cognitively impaired?

Do you lack privacy on an hourly basis?

Does your job entail extra duty such as monitoring your clients over lunch, at sports events, at after school events?

Nah, you don't do any of these things and you know it.

[boppers]

101. Assumption is a stupid thing.

It sounds like you work a hard-ass job.

I direct honor to you for doing it.

(BTW, I lack privacy on a per packet basis, and my past clients have direct access to thermonuclear weapons, so, you're kind of short on the assumptions.)

[Catshrink]

102. ...

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[boppers]

105. ...

:shrug:

[MichiganVote]

121. Perfect! You're the ideal TFA teacher candidate for a classroom full of kids.

No experience necessary anymore. Unless you belong to a teacher's union, then you're required to be highly qualified.

Don't worry about the privacy / packet thing. Most kids in the HS science classes regularly hack into teacher's personal accounts and that little thermonuclear thing---they'll love you. As soon as they can use the weapons that is.

Enjoy!

[MichiganVote]

52. Oh please...Doctor's and Lawyers avoid malpractice like the plague

And they are very successful at it. While you do not supply a source for your reference of 92%, it is clear that you choose to lump that entire sum on teachers. The fact that you do reveals that you know nothing about education administration at the national, state or local levels.

Most children like and even love their teachers. Too bad you didn't.

[boppers]

60. The Rhode Island kerfluffle is where the 92% came from.

If you choose to lump that on all teachers, you're making a mistake.

[Catshrink]

63. Nice try

to duck and walk back. We all know what you were referring to and your efforts are in vainly pathetic.

[boppers]

74. Well, I guess you know everything about me!

Being psychic is cool, yes?

[MichiganVote]

66. Uh sure. Sorry you've lost credibility with me. Fail.

[MichiganVote]

49. Funny thing, public employees feel the same way about the public.

You all act like you're the bad type of CEO's we otherwise complain about here and everywhere.

[Yeshuah Ben Joseph]

2. Why is he there?

I didn't realize that privatizing schools was a civil rights issue.

[femmocrat]

11. "[Education] is the civil rights issue of our generation."

At least that is what he said-- a couple of times.

[MichiganVote]

26. Arne, Arne, Arne...its been a civil rights issue since before slavery brainiac.

[Smarmie Doofus]

4. Oy. nt

[femmocrat]

5. Well, that was a lot of nothing. Paraphrasing:

Teachers: Stop making excuses. These are our children.
Parents: Turn off the TV and read to your kids.
Community members: Tutor, volunteer, coach, mentor.
Students: Take education seriously, work hard, go to college.

"Education is the civil rights issue of our generation."
Demand excellence.

He spoke for about 5 minutes.

[Smarmie Doofus]

8. He's soooooooo....... *deep*. nt

[madfloridian]

12. A whole bunch of meaningless jibber jabber fed to him by "reformers"

[Catshrink]

13. But don't worry, folks,

If the parents, community, and students do nothing and your kid fails, I'll still blame the teachers and fire them because they're the only ones accountable.

[WinkyDink]

15. Go to college, eh? With what money? For what jobs? Those "Teach for America" 2-yr jokes?

[Brickbat]

7. Brickbat addresses Arne Duncan NOW.

"Dude, STFU and resign."

[Catshrink]

9. +1

[femmocrat]

16. +2

:rofl:

[bigwillq]

38. ......

:thumbsup:

[Starry Messenger]

40. Zing!

:thumbsup:

[LWolf]

116. + 1,000,000

[Dinger]

118. What Brickbat Said . . .

:patriot:

[madfloridian]

10. He's there because he works with Sharpton on school stuff....

They call education "reform" a civil rights issue, which it is not.

Timeline of Sharpton, Klein and Bloomberg's educational political machinations

This is a timeline of how Bloomberg, Klein, Sharpton all got on board with the "reformers"...the groups being strongly enabled by Arne Duncan.

[Catshrink]

17. And financed by Gates, et al.

[femmocrat]

18. Great article, madfloridian! Newt is in the mix, too!

Thanks for the link.

[madfloridian]

24. Newt is finally getting his free-market schools after all these years.

;(

[sabrina 1]

14. I'm surprised he wasn't at the Beck rally. Seems to fit better

with the rightwing anti-social programs crowd.

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. He's really a shitty public speaker

Al should tutor him in how to hold a crowd's attention.

[WinkyDink]

22. This Admin is replete with admonishers.

[MichiganVote]

27. This administration has more shit to say to public employees than the effin' CEO's

[activa8tr]

23. You SHOULD HAVE SAID THE "SHARPTON" rally.. .people here think

he's speaking at the Beck rally.

Please be specific when starting threads.

[QC]

28. Would you really have been surprised if he had?

Really?

Just think how wondrously, bipartisanly reachy-outy that would have been!

[femmocrat]

29. I changed it.

I did say where it could be found. It's over now anyhow. He only spoke for a few minutes.

P.S. Who is watching the Beck rally? LOL

[ibegurpard]

30. wrong rally Arne

the conservatives are down the block.
go peddle your privatization schemes to them.

[DailyGrind51]

31. Hey, Arne, your rally is over there!

[madrchsod]

32. union buster arne....great choice for a speaker

[Angry Dragon]

71. What happened to seperationof church and state??

Who is this duncan to tell a church how they are suppose to be run??

Perhaps he needs to go back to basketball instead of telling everyone else
how they are not doing their job.
I think it is time for all of us to send letters to the President and give
duncan his job performance review.

I would give him a F- and that may be generous

[Catshrink]

72. Obama and Duncan are joined at the hip on this.

Obama won't listen to criticism of Duncan from anyone - that's why public education is doomed under this administration. I'm still in shock that it's being done by a Democratic administration.

[proud2BlibKansan]

80. In all fairness, I understand what Arne was trying to say.

He just did a piss poor job of making the point.

We need the community to be involved if we want our schools to educate our kids well. And preachers are a part of the community. But Arne came off as an inarticulate doofus ordering preachers to help.

[MichiganVote]

82. Arne was making an appeal to the black community vote.

Black Americans have a very conflicted relationship with the public school system in most communities. This is understandable but hardly the fault of teaching staff alone. In part this is why there is a push for the charter school model among this administration and among black Americans. Having said that, however, linking arms with the charter school corporate movement is going to ultimately result in another ass screwin' 10 years down the road.

[proud2BlibKansan]

85. I completely agree

As a teacher in an urban district this is very frustrating.

[MichiganVote]

91. Believe me, I know. And I've worked in rural,urban and inner city urban.

[amandabeech]

92. Good for you for teaching in a tough area.

I just hope that you and others like you don't get pushed out by bad administrators or give up in frustration.

My mom was a teacher and a good one. She taught in a poor rural school, and it wasn't always easy to help the kids who just weren't supported and prepared by overwhelmed parents and parents who just didn't care about their kids' education.

You have it much worse than she did, I think.

I sincerely thank you and wish you the best for your choice of vocation and avocation.

[proud2BlibKansan]

94. I think rural teachers have it worse

Those kids are so isolated and removed from social services. I've taught lots of kids over the years who moved to the city and their families are amazed by how much easier it is to live poor in an urban area.

[amandabeech]

106. That may be.

One of the biggest problems in rural areas is transportation.

It is impossible to live without a car, and a reasonably reliable car cannot be had for the $500 that the poor can maybe put together. A new problem is that cars now cannot be fixed by a hobbyist. All the computer chips and electronics mean that it has to go to a well equipped and expensive shop instead of to Uncle Bob when it breaks down.

Without reliable transportation, parents can't get or keep jobs and they can't get into town to get to the services that are available.

I once read about an experimental program in a rural area that provided reasonably reliable vehicles to the poor, who often live way out in the sticks in shacks or dilapidated mobile homes because that's all they can afford, and offered a loaner or a ride when the vehicle did break down. It enabled its clients to stay employed, and it was worth every dollar. It was pound wise and not penney foolish, and thus probably killed during the reign of the idiot king.

[Starry Messenger]

119. Bingo.

The economy needs deep structural change. Charter schools are just a band-aid--the kind that insurance companies bill $500 bucks for. The whole thing is really evil. The charter school movement is being created in large part by the same assholes who tanked the economy. It's like the mafia. Take away all of the common resources and then sell back their version of "choice". I don't blame families that are frustrated and want something better for kids, but don't shovel this onto teachers.

[MichiganVote]

120. The modern day equivalent of Carpetbaggers&Scallywags

[Dinger]

117. Charter Churches?