As bad as it is...I think we're on the cusp of change

[IndianaJoe]

I'm 61. I was born when Truman was president. I've endured Eisenhower, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, and the two Bushes. It has been a long, long time and the Consies have always been with me.
The same old game...always the same old shit. The Blacks are to be feared; welfare queens are taking your hard earned money; big gummint is taking your freedom; the UN is a plot to ruin America; we gotta have a big bad military; the Japanese hold all our bonds; wealth will trickle down to the poor if we give the wealthy people a tax break; unions are why America can't manufacture anything anymore....

All my life it's always been the same. And the problems of the country -- and everyone knows what they are -- never get addressed for the same old reasons.

But I really think we're close now. The demographics have changed. We're a multiracial country now and the Blacks haven't forgotten what Roosevelt, Kennedy, and Johnson did for them (after they took the bit between their teeth and changed things themselves). And the Latinos now know they'll never get any kind of a normal life for their relatives from the Republicans.
And gays know the same. And the young aren't afraid of a black president, or Latinos, or gays.

Two years ago we won the Presidency, the House, and the Senate...not by enough...not enough to really do what needs to be done. But that tells me we're really close. It won't be long. We'll have truly universal health, we'll do something about energy, global warming, wealth distribution, Wall Street, jobs, a clean environment, and education. I really think it's coming because the old, stupid farts that have blocked any kind of reform for so long are dying off. And their old stupid ideas don't carry any weight any more. They don't work.

All those Tea Party types are OLD. Like me I guess. And soon enough, they won't be around. And we'll have the numbers we need to make this country a better place.

[MichiganVote]

1. Yup...Korea,VietNam, Gulf War I, Iraq, Afghanistan...sick of war, sick of war, sick of war

Goddamn, I'm sick of this country going to war. It has defined my generation.

[IndianaJoe]

11. Right...all the people that died...

All the money we spent on those wars...Just thinking about it makes me so sad.

Remember why we fought those wars...because Communism was this big behemoth that was going to gobble up Asia...The "domino theory" in Nam and then in Iraq because Saddam had all those horrible weapons of mass destruction...and now because of the "War on Terror" and because we can't let Al Quaeda retake Afghanistan.

The reasons for all those wars don't seem like they were such great ideas now.

[MichiganVote]

16. The reasons for these wars was bullshit. All about the economy of the billionaires.

The generation of death, that's how we have been defined through no fault of our own. They ate us from the time we were born.

[Jackpine Radical]

2. I was born about a month before Roosevelt won his last election.

I'm 65 & headed for 66 in a little over a month. I'd really like to think you're right. I dunno, though, if the game can be won on the political playing field. I think we need to make some deep & profound changes in values very quickly if we're going to survive as a species. I'm waiting for people to start seeing what's going on & come together in massive ways that the Overlords can't control.

[safeinOhio]

3. I see it the same way.

Short term, bad. Long term, way better. Same age and I have watched the right hang themselves every time they got enough rope.

[dixiegrrrrl]

35. The right may hang themselves over and over

but they keep getting elected!!!!

I really thought we had learned after Nixon.

Nope..we got Ford, we got Raygun, we got Bushwahs ....

they keep dumbing down the country, exporting the latinos, imprisoning the blacks, and ignoring the women.
These guys know the demographics are changing, so now they are on the way to impoverishing all of us.

The Right may be shooting itself in the foot over and over, but the Dems are not rushing to take advantage of it, IMHO.

[RKP5637]

4. About the same age and have seen/heard the same old RW sh** decade after decade. Yes,

hopefully change is coming. I know I'm really tired of playing the same old tapes in my head.

Everytime I hear a teabagger and the like talk, it's just like the same crap we were fighting in the 60's. Oh, I surely hope change is on the way!

Your post was encouraging!
:toast: :toast: :toast:

[enough]

5. I've been thinking this a lot lately. I'm 66. I see change coming just as you say.

The conservative/reactionaries won't be able to do a thing about it. Demographics will do it, no matter how much they try to stave it off. Not that it will be easy or without violence, but it is going to happen. Maybe they actually know this themselves, which is why they're getting so desperate and crazy these days.

Something as minor as the polls concerning the "Mosque at Ground Zero." They show older people overwhelmingly opposed to it, and younger people supporting it. That's about all you need to know.

[calimary]

8. The same way older people hugely opposing gay marriage and an end to the "war on drugs" etc.

The younger people ALL support these things and look with befuddlement on their elders who don't. I hope and pray. I hope I live long enough to see all those stale old ideas and obsessions go the way of the dinosaurs.

[TBF]

6. Historically most of the substantive changes seem to come from movements,

and of course the revolutions that come from time to time. Not much changes through the voting booth. But the biggest obstacle is capitalism itself - how do we make the changes we need ($$$ for butter instead of guns) - as long as we're still propping up this dying Empire.

[calimary]

7. From your mouth... and all that.

I find myself clinging to the observation that many of the teabaggers ARE old. Old and predominantly white and whiny about those "good old days" when blacks and women knew their place and Hispanics stayed in the fields so they were basically non-existent. They SAY they want their America "back." What they really want is their America BACKWARDS.

[handmade34]

9. I hope you are right n/t

[Fire1]

10. True but they won't die out soon enough. Remember, they

taught their kids that same stupid shit and IF and WHEN it does happen, I don't think we'll be around to see it.

[Nostradammit]

32. LMAO!!! Why do I get the sense, "Fire1"

that you don't want it to happen?

[Fire1]

41. Maybe b/c I'm a pessimist or realist. Either way,

I don't have much faith in humanity.

[Radical Activist]

12. 2/3rds of voters under 21 voted for Obama.

Under 30 was about 60%. A generational shift is happening.
I don't know what the corporations will do to divide people next. I suspect the recession happening now is their latest effort to permanently lower the standard of living.

[pipi_k]

13. I graduated HS in 1970...our class song was...

"Aquarius"


We had such hopes back then.

WTF happened?

[izquierdista]

20. Nixon

[Radical Activist]

33. 18-21 year olds vote Nixon over McGovern.

It was never the majority like it is now.

[socialist_n_TN]

40. Yuppies. The Boomers (of which I am one)..............

bought into the capitalist dream of Reagan with ALL of their dollars. And now we're reaping the whirlwind. Anytime "practicality" wins out over ideals, everybody loses.

[Marr]

14. Things won't change as long as people think electing a certain party is the solution.

That alone doesn't change much, as the past few years have shown. The established order always does what it can do preserve itself. Things improve for regular people when the establishment decides that the only way to preserve itself is to compromise.

[IndianaJoe]

15. Sometimes a party can embody the hopes and aspirations

of those that want change. That's what I'm hoping for. Something Rooseveltian. It might happen, especially, and as you say, if there is a public groundswell behind it. I dunno. I probably won't be around to see it. But I hope it happens.

[Radical Activist]

34. It can provide more opportunity for progress.

The most I expect from Obama or any President is someone who's more responsive to popular movements than Republicans are. Obama provides an environment where change is more likely to happen. I don't expect or event want any President to be the source of dramatic societal change from the top down. Sitting back and expecting any party or President to do it for us is a mistake. Even Obama said that on election night.

[raccoon]

37. Wish I could rec your great post. nt

[raccoon]

38. sorry, dupe. But it is a great post. nt

[craigmatic]

17. You're talking about 30 years from now. But in the immediate years this country is fucked.

Next year we'll have a dem majority in congress too weak to push our president's agenda. Things will stop completely because they'll be too scared to do anything. The economy will be worse and it'll give the repubs a fighting chance to take the white house by 2012.

[unkachuck]

18. "...their old stupid ideas don't carry any weight any more."

....there is something in the air....

....today I was talking with a relative who's a staunch puke and voted for the chimp, twice....I asked what he thought about November and a Republican take-over of Congress....

....he said he thought all the talk about a repug landslide in November wasn't going to happen....and people may not be happy with the Democrats but they don't want to go back to what brought us here (depression) in the first place....

....I was surprised....this win-at-all-cost, die-hard Republican was actually pessimistic about his boys in November....

[blue sky at night]

19. you are a very smart cookie!

You have it just right as the demographics have changed, the young are just not going to vote the way the right wants them to. Everything needs to change because fundementally the world has changed.....GREAT POST and you are right on the money. Thanks and Recommended!

[whoneedstickets]

21. Thanks for providing some perspective!

Its easy to get myopic and think we're doomed. But you're right. The reality of public policy in this country has trended toward progress. For many, not fast enough certainly. But life today compared with the 1880's, 1920's, even the 50's for women, minorities etc. has vastly improved and will continue to if we remain committed.

[riverdale]

43. We had a lot more rights and freedoms in the groovy 70s

It seems that every time a change is made, it is not in the direction of more freedom.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. I hope you are right

but it is movement politics where it will (is starting to happen).

Just like the 20s labor FINALLY seems to be waking up. Yes, isolated reports of a strike here, and there... but that is what truly gives me hope.

And that is one of many examples.

The empire is dying so if the collapse is sudden, IMHO all bets are off.

[pnwmom]

23. But it only works if younger people vote in proportion to their numbers.

And the expectation is that they won't.

[TheKentuckian]

24. Time marches on but isn't necessarily on our side in all matters

The generational shift helps mightily with social issues but the economic ones having another ten, twenty, thirty, or fifty years bodes extremely poorly.

There are wounds that time may heal but there are certainly some that will be much worse.

Now is our time, the world we leave behind is our responsibility and it is not for us to rest well knowing that someone else will fix it.

[starroute]

25. Trouble is the right knows it too and they'll try to kneecap us while they can

I'm about your age, and on one level I agree with you completely -- but on another, I see those same hopeful signs as a source of great danger.

Just look out there at what the right is doing and see how much of it makes sense as an agenda designed to prevent the emerging majority in this country from ever exercising power.

The calls to repeal the 17th amendment, which provides for popular election of Senators, and hand the job back to state legislatures is perhaps the most blatant bid for permanent minority rule. But there are any number of other approaches to the same goal:

- Disenfranchising as many minority voters as possible by methods ranging from "vote caging" and intimidation to permanently canceling the voting rights of ex-felons.

- Discrediting or defunding groups which represent minority or liberal interests, with ACORN being the most visible example.

- Undercutting, weakening, or infiltrating traditional liberal institutions, ranging from labor unions to progressive churches to universities. Arousing resentment of government and other union employees among other workers, using privatization to cut out the teachers' unions, closing union factories while keeping non-union ones open.

It hasn't yet gotten to the really fascist stage of violent intimidation, political arrests, and withdrawal of civil liberties -- and I don't know whether it ever will or not. Probably the most dangerous situation would be if the right manages to hold power well past the point where they have any democratic claim to it -- which would give them both the means and the motivation to do away with democracy altogether.

But what this means is that we have to fight back now, while we're still free to do so -- to defend everyone who seems vulnerable, to take a stand on issues that we can't yet see the point of but which clearly matter a lot to our opponents, and to play it like a chess game where the long-range goal is to control the board.

[IndianaJoe]

26. Well said. They won't go away willingly. I know that for sure.

As you put it (way better than me), we have to make sure the demographics will matter.

But I don't see Latinos liking clever Consie ideas like repealing the 14th Amendment. Or blacks putting up with being disenfranchised again. Or the young throwing their lot in with the same people that handed them the mess that they're going to have to deal with after guys like you and me are dead and gone.

If the Consies try to fight change like that, they'll lose.

[Skittles]

27. I hope it is change for the good

:o

[sofa king]

28. I concur. The demographic is changing fast now.

To me, the election of President Obama was the obvious point where things changed. Blowing the racial barrier out of the water was a nice start, but the guy turns out to be brilliant, highly competent, an administrative master, apparently tireless, and totally unflappable. He seems hell-bound and determined to make the world a better place (but not the way I want to see it done), and he has all the tools he needs to do it in spite of Congress and the Republican Media Wurlitzer.

In other words, he's actually qualified to hold his job, which is a refreshing change.

Sure, he's an American moderate, which makes him an international right-winger, and that pisses me off every day. But he's setting a standard of excellence which will forever be associated with the Democratic party and by extension, us, even if we don't entirely agree with his politics.

He's not enthusiastic about war, greed, hatred or deceit, so whatever he is, he ain't a damned Republican, and I must be one of millions who will forever associate those qualities with the Republican Party, and vote against it every chance I get.

But it will be up to us to hold his feet to the fire on progressive goals, to prevent the party from being hijacked by the DLC and its corporate masters, to stand up to the Vatican as we draw in more Hispanic voters, and to maintain the Democratic edge in Congress. We can't let our success condemn us to becoming the new Republicans.

[Lugnut]

29. I'll be 65 in about two weeks.

You would think people would learn something from this country's history. The Republicans royally screw things up and the Democrats are left to clean up the messes they've left behind. Then the Dems are blamed for making the hard choices that are required to clean up these messes and the cycle continues.

I would like to be as encouraged as you are but I'm not seeing it. I hope I'm wrong and you are right.

[stevedeshazer]

30. I agree with you.

:thumbsup:

[KamaAina]

31. Silly Joe. It's the Chinese who hold all our bonds.

They're the ones whose slant eyes point upward, not downward.

:sarcasm:

[IndianaJoe]

36. Right. All my life strange foreigners have held us in thrall.

That was the meme. First it was the revengeful Japanese, then the demented Saudis and those oil sheiks from the Gulf. Now it's the inscrutable and Communistic Chinese! It's like Dr. Fu Manchu is off somewhere now as we speak, sitting in his pagoda in Shanghai, cackling evilly as he computes interest and counts up the face amount of our bonds.

I've heard all my life that this indebtedness to foreigners meant we were a frivolous country, that spending had to be reigned in, that budgets had to be balanced at any cost (usually on the backs of the middle class by higher taxes or through the effects of reduced governmental spending); that countries were just like households and that if we couldn't afford something (unless it was a war) the only "responsible" course was to tighten our belts and do without. Budgets must be balanced at all costs and at all times! Sooner or later a day of reckoning would come. Spending more than we took in would bode ill for us. The sinister foreign gnomes that held our bonds would someday call all their loans -- like a landlord suddenly demanding an unpaid rent check -- and all our possessions would be tossed into the street. We would default. Then the whole American economic edifice would crumble away. We would be reduced to third-world status, and no one would ever loan us money, or take us seriously as a nation, again.

I've heard this scenario from the Republicans (the party of "Fiscal Responsibility") whenever it suited them to present it all my life. And it's never happened.

[CanonRay]

39. We've been at war almost my whole life

I was born in the middle of the Korean War (the headline on the day I was born was "Seoul In Flames"). Then Viet Nam, a whole shitload of Grenada's/Dominican Republics/Panamas( I can't even remember them all), Bosnia, Lebanon,Iraq I, Somalia, Iraq II, and now Afghanistan. It seems like that's all we do anymore. What kind of place could this country have been, had we not spent all that treasure (and of course, lives) on this bullshit.

[Blue Meany]

42. While I agree that change for the better will come,

and largely for the reasons you say, I think the road to change is going to be hard and bitter and possibly violent. This is not what I want, but what I see are the last gasps of an unsustainable system that is structured to funnel disproportionate amounts of wealth to a very few, increaingly through manipulations on Wall Street, an industry which produces nothing. Although politics has always been a dirty business, with monied interests having unfair influence, it was possible at critical junctures in history to make significant change through populust outcries and moral persuasion (e.g., the 1964 Civil Rights Law). Today, reforms are fought for only to have them watered down by special interests who influence Congress or are reforms are skewed to benifit the industries they are intended to regulate. The rich, led by their minions on Wall Street, use speculative bubbles to capture more and more of the real wealth of the counry. Their manipulations have cause many to lose their homes, the major asset held by most families. Wall Street already has control of retirment monies, because by law sheltered accounts can only invest in a few products, such as mutual funds, which are produced by them, but that isn't enough. They want Social Security funds to speculate with too. And companies are using bankruptcy to evade paying retirement to retired workers. In short, there is underway a massive transfer of wealth from the bottom to the top, and the rich have the resources to buy the media and the politicians, making any kind of grassroots campaign reform very difficult.

I think that the rich will eventually bring the economy to its knees, an outcome likely to be much worse than the Great Depression, since in those day we had our own oil to fire up the economy and fewer people to sustain. Then, things will change. But it is unlikely that the rich will give up their power voluntarily and they may well try to use force to maintain it, as is done in many third world countries. We could have an FDR type figure who enacts programs to stave off a socialist revolution, such as the New Deal. We could also spawn a left-wing or right-wing takeover of govt.