Why not just let the Bush tax cuts die.

[MadHound]

In this time of economic downturn, this time of record deficits, it truly seems foolish to pour ever more money down the tax cut rathole. Tax cuts for the rich, tax cuts for the middle class, it doesn't matter. What does matter is that it has been shown time and again that tax cuts of any kind are the weakest form of economic stimulus going.

Rather than trying to hold back economic disaster with the dullest tool in the toolbox, doesn't it make more sense to use the sharpest tool in the box? Rather than handing out more tax cuts that do little for the economy other than racking up more and more debt, I suggest that we let the tax cuts expire. It would save trillions of dollars. We could take a portion of that money, say just one trillion, and invest it in a true, WPA style jobs creation program. This would do a world of good for the economy, for the people of this country, and for the Democratic party. Job creation is the most effective for of economic stimulus. When people get jobs, they spend more, which drives up demand in the private sector, who will start hiring more people, and around and around we would go, a positive circle. Not to mention that doing something of this magnitude, for the good of the people, would win over people to the Democratic party.

Furthermore, while most people would lose out on a few hundred dollars in tax cut money, they would see that amount that they lose more than made up for in long term economic gain. A rising economic tide lifts all boats. Not to mention that by eliminating two, three trillion from the debt, our long term economic health would be that much better.

Tax cuts, tax cuts and more tax cuts are a large part of what got us into this mess. Why should we continue to pursue a failed policy any further? They say that trying the same thing over and over while expecting a different result each time is a form of insanity. It is time that we backed away from tax cut sanity and pursue the one path that is the most effective way to get our economy out of this hole, long term, large scale job creation.

Anything else is simply pissing more money away.

[Gin]

1. I was thinking along the same lines....let them expire for all

put this issue to bed and address the middle class tax relief after its all restored...

[Enrique]

2. for me, the only reason is that Obama arguably promised the middle class tax cuts

I'm with you, I think they don't make sense as policy. I think they should have been ended immediately, not just allowed to expire. But, Obama was elected president and he did arguably run on extending them up to $250,000.

[MadHound]

4. He also promised HCR with a public option.

Frankly I'm more worried about the health of our country than in sticking to Obama's promises. Besides, we can always come back and pass through a middle class tax break during his second term, when, hopefully, our economy is in better shape.

[HughBeaumont]

3. Because UHmerica wants a president who tells them what they WANT to hear.

Not what NEEDS to be done . . . or that any kind of SACRIFICES need to be made among the wealthy (Perish THAT thought).

See: Reagan, Ronald; Bush, George W.

Kicking the Can RULES!!! Let someone ELSE clean up our mess!! I wants to get Rich NOW!!! In the long run, we'll all be DEAD!! HAULIN' ACE!!

[spanone]

5. chickenshits?

[thereismore]

6. Because they would accuse the dems of raising taxes on everyone. nt

[MadHound]

8. So we're supposed to suffer further economic hardship because the Dems

Are afraid of being called names?

Please, it is actions that people pay attention to, that old question "Are you better off today than you were X years ago." If the answer is yes, well all of the names in the world won't prevent you from being elected.

Besides, it is time for our so called leaders to stand up, do what is right for this country and damn the political consequences. I'm tired of politicians, of all stripes, caring more about their reelection than for what is in the best interests of this country and our people.

[thereismore]

10. Elections are here every 2 years. Not enough time to "raise" taxes on everybody

and expect "yes" to the question "Are you better off now or before we raised your taxes?"

So I think keeping the middle class tax cuts is necessary. Raising them on the wealthy is a must. They won't be high enough anyway.

[MadHound]

12. So you are like politicians,

More worried about what is good for the party and politicians than in doing what is good for the this country and its people as a whole.

One more reason our country is going to hell.

[thereismore]

14. I am just explaining their mentality, actually. I am not endorsing it. I am not that cynical yet. nt

[MadHound]

15. OK then,

My bad, I thought you were endorsing it. The limitations of the intertubes:hi:

[thereismore]

17. I am a socialist, for higher taxes, more gov't services and a better safety net.

:thumbsup:

[denverbill]

7. Middle class only or nothing at all is my vote. n/t

[unblock]

9. ideally he would let them expire and propose a completely new and better tax plan

but there's a distinct lack of will to even propose genuinely progressive taxation policies, no matter how fiscally or economically wonderful they might be.

[Orsino]

11. And undercut the middle-class tax cut Obama can already take credit for?

It would be a tax hike, and the R's would crow all the way to November.

The TV would back them up, too.

[MadHound]

13. And put this country further in debt,

And squander much needed money on the least effective form of economic stimulus?

What do you want, what is good for the party or what is good for this country and its people?

[Statistical]

16. If the Dems massively raise taxes on middle class, get hammered for it and lose the majority

Republicans can railroad all kinds of horrible legislative policy is THAT good for the country.

The reality is Obama made an explicit (and easily verifiable) promise to not raise taxes for those making > $250K. If he turns from that expect the media to play his promise (made dozens if not hundreds of times in various speeches, interviews, and campaign stops) over and over and over until every voter can repeat his exact (broken) words in their sleep. It is his "read my lips; no new taxes" moment. A flip on that would be political suicide not just for Obama but for the Democratic majority (maybe not in 2010 but certainly in 2012). 99% of Americans don't understand politics, fiscal policy, or economics but they certainly understand a bold faced lie.

It would massively and irreparably hurt the Democrats. It would be run nonstop 24/7 in election ads. Republicans would run on a campaign of "restoring the financial strength of the middle class".

Any benefit from raising the taxes wouldn't be felt for years. The lag time on things like changes in taxation is 3-5 years (or more). Just enough time for Americans to see absolutely no benefit and be 100% convinced the Democrats lied to them and screwed them over.

What do you think Republicans will do to taxes if/when they regain control? Will the country be better off raising taxes on the middle class if the cost for that decision is Republicans regaining control?

[MadHound]

19. Gotcha,

Just huddle in the foxhole, doing the least effective stimulus possible while the rest of the country continues to go to hell in a handbasket. So much for Profiles in Courage.

Letting the tax cuts simply expire would save trillions, TRILLIONS, of dollars. Money that can be put to use creating a massive jobs creation program. Which do you think would be more appreciated by the people of this country, a few hundred bucks at the end of the year, or a job for everybody and an economy that picks itself up and starts humming again.

We have tried endless tax cuts, over and over again ad nauseum, and that is part of the reason why we're in this mess. We have got to stop playing defense, letting the 'Pugs control agenda. Put the case out there for letting the tax cuts expire, announce a huge jobs creation program to help the people, and remind them that we will still be saving trillions, TRILLIONS, of dollars of tax payer money.

Which do you want this country to continue to go to hell in a handbasket, or for somebody to actively do what is right for this country? Why do you want to play petty political games while this country burns.

Oh, and as far as being worried about Obama breaking his promises, don't worry, he's already done that. Or have you conveniently forgotten Obama's promise to veto any HCR that didn't have a public option in it. That bridge has therefore already been passed, and quite frankly, given the public's ongoing and justified cynicism regarding any politicians promises, it isn't that big a fucking deal.

[Orsino]

21. It is indeed time for an actual tax *plan*.

We need something smarter than just letting the Bush cuts expire exactly as they were designed to to. We ought to get serious about progressive taxation.

[kentuck]

18. Right !

If you're gonna pass taxcuts for the middle-class, why not take credit for it? Rather than extending the "Bush taxcuts", why not pass the new "Obama taxcuts" for the middle class?

[MadHound]

20. Rather than doing ANY taxcuts,

Let's take some of those trillions that we would be saving, invest it back into this country and its people in the form of a massive jobs creation package, one that would put people to work and stimulate this economy.

After getting the economy on its feet and paying down our debt, then we can worry about tax cuts.

[kentuck]

22. You sound like a damn Democrat !

Are you OK? :-)

[MadHound]

23. Yeah, I sound like a Democrat, an old school Democrat

Yet I'm treated around here, and in the party in general, as some damned, liberal, socialist, anarchist, commie. Go figure.

[kentuck]

24. I wouldn't know...

:-)

[MadHound]

25. LOL!

:evilgrin:

Darn commie old school Dems.:hi: