Who is doing the whining?

[jpgray]

Critics of the administration believe that a party, like a flag, does not have any ideals in and of itself. Its ideals inhere solely through what is done in its name. The entire point of criticizing policy like warrantless wiretapping, torture, extraordinary rendition, pursued assassinations of US citizens without due process, etc. is a belief the party should not engage in or defend these abhorrent acts. They were wrong during the Bush administration, they continue to be wrong now, and it is not only appropriate but necessary to say so.

The administration complains constantly about intraparty dissent, but only in one direction. Criticism and resistance from the left represents pessimistic unproductive whining, whereas criticism from the center and right is viewed as a serious and productive difference of opinion.

Let's take one issue: the stimulus. Critics from the left argue the stimulus worked but was far too small, containing too many tax breaks and too few measures to address the shortfall in aggregate demand. Critics from the right argue the stimulus was too big, arguing at once that deficit spending must cease -and- that further tax cuts are necessary. One is a serious criticism; the other is not. One points the way forward in a practical, researched, non-contradictory way; the other does not.

Which one is treated as whining? Which one is taken seriously by the administration? Which one has an appreciable impact on administration policy?

Does this behavior from the administration make sense to you? If so, why?

[grasswire]

1. and which narrative is advanced by the media?

thanks, Joe. I love you man, but you are wrong on this one.

[emulatorloo]

8. Rachel Maddow is about the only one who reports on Republican bullshit and deals with facts

every other outlet takes Republicans at face value, never fact checks statement like "the stimulus is a failure."

It is very frustrating.

[emulatorloo]

2. Criticism and "whining" are different.

Critics usually have solutions and recommendations.

Whiners just whine and pout.

I guess I am going back to dictionary definitions. Some DU'ers are trying to conflate the DU.

[tk2kewl]

3. The admin is using the word whining as a label for criticism it wants to ignore.

That is the problem here and the upshot of the OP.

And to answer the OPs original question the behavior makes sense if you acknowledge that the admin is run by the DLC.

[emulatorloo]

6. That's your interpretation. To me it sounds more like "Wake up and smell the coffee"

or rather the tea. Sometimes we get so caught up in our single issue or whatever that we obsess and don't look at the big picture.

The big picture is that Democrats are at least trying to make some kind of positive impact. The Republican Teabag party pretty much want to dismantle everything that helps people.

[tk2kewl]

10. Most of the so-called whining is accompanied by very simpe solutions:

State sanctioned assignations: stop doing that.
Tax cuts for the rich: stop doing that.
Warrantless spying on U.S. citizens: stop doing that.
Creating catfood commissions: stop doing that.
Appointing republican hatchet men to said commission: stop doing that.

Obviously the list of criticisms (or whines depending on your which branch of the Democratic party you come from) and their simple solutions goes on.

There are certainly other more nuanced positions one can take on other issues, but the ones that people are most pissed off about are frankly so far right that 20 or 30 years ago they wouldn't have been even considered by Republicans.

[chimpymustgo]

22. Thank you!

[EFerrari]

11. Yep. nt

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

5. Great point. I've been incredibly critical of this administration. I think it has wasted

too much time and squandered political capital by trying to appease Republicans and Blue Dogs. I think serious mistakes have been made. And I am furious at some of the decisions like continuing rendition and torture practices, extending FISA, protecting administrative secrets, failing to reinstate Glass-Steagall, etc. But I also realize that the political climate was not conducive to accomplishing everything, and the president and Dems have been stiffled at every turn by the Republicans. So in that case, I understand. Disappointed, but understand that the stakes are high. There has been progress made. The administration hasn't been a total failure. And the House has been nothing short of terrific. Therefore, I'd like to see us continue down the road towards progress rather than regressing because we're angry. This country simply cannot afford to regress. We can't. And as a black woman, seeing that Republicans like to harken back to the days of the Confederacy. No, thanks! I'm not going back down that road again. Sorry.

[Winterblues]

9. Do you really believe anyone into politics so much they visits this site

would not vote? People here live for politics. It is their life. They would no sooner not vote than not breathe...That fact though won't ever stop the critics and/or the disappointment. The Administration knows this and has for some time deliberately done thingas not necessarily to our liking knowing full well we have no where else to go.. They have us by the preverbial balls and delight in it..That may not be the case after this election coming up. We will have two more years to decide just how much more disappointment we can bear.. If the Administration doesn't start resembling Democrats there really is no point in voting for that Office..

[jpgray]

14. Would you give an example of each, so I can better understand you?

I mean that seriously--and only if you want to do it. I want a better idea of the divide as people see it.

[emulatorloo]

18. Reading some of the threads I am starting to get a little bit of a different view of this

I'm not going to be able to articulate it well.

I think the message is more like this:

Don't get bogged down in your disappointments with this or that issue. This election is important - it is a BIG PICTURE election. Obama/Dems are trying to move in the right direction, the other party wants to take us in a very wrong direction. The Republicans are pushing a radical right agenda.

[jpgray]

24. I could see that. I also see some frustration that Democrats are abandoning his major policies

In other words, rather than defending the stimulus or health care reform as (arguably) the best policy that could get passed in this climate, both candidates and supporters are avoiding identification with such policies. Critics on the left think the reforms are too weak, while critics from the establishment or politics have a natural aversion to any policy that requires any sacrifice from major industry or the public at large. For different reasons, neither group wants to identify with Obama's signature achievements.

What I have more trouble understanding is the singling out of dissatisfaction from the left, while that from the Blue Dogs or the center-right of the establishment in general is excused or treated with respect. On a purely practical level, the Blue Dogs and associated hangers-on have reasons for shunning Obama's signature policies that are based on selfishness, venality, and political expediency (i.e. it being tough to run on these big reforms in a more conservative area), yet they may be immune from criticism because most of the votes that seem up for grabs to the administration are centrist votes. The left has reasons for disagreement that are more policy-based, but may be seen as having unrealistic expectations. Singling these critics out allows the administration to align itself more with the votes that may go either way, but does so at the risk of alienating the group most responsible for GOTV and general enthusiasm in the runup to an election.

[emulatorloo]

25. Probably because the centrists don't threaten to vote third party or sit home?

Or am I missing something?

For what it is worth I consider myself pretty far to the left liberal.

[jpgray]

26. They threaten to vote GOP or sit home, and in great numbers

The proportion of leftist Democrats that plan to sit home is going to be infinitesimal as usual--that's why you can risk demoralizing them by calling them whiners. The centrists are by and large uninformed, and have a great deal of respect for what they hear from establishment sources, which frequently portray the universe of debate as Obama on the far left, Ben Nelson and Olympia Snowe in the center, and Inhofe or the like on the far right. The center group is treated as more reasonable and more serious than the rest, and that's where the centrist voter wants to be. This is bad for the Democrats when they are upsetting the establishment by necessity, and requiring sacrifices from groups that are not used to making them.

Obama can therefore complain about pony-wanting leftists moping about in a fog of party-departing pique, without losing them as voters. He can't necessarily tar the entire belief system of the political center as contradictory nonsense (which concerning more tax cuts and less deficit, it is) without risking -many- votes from the center.

That's how I make sense of it, anyway.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

16. The thing is, even criticism with solutions and recommendations is attacked as "whining". -nt

[Gman]

4. You select things to whine about that are such hugely complex issues

that there is no one right answer and then use it as an excuse for not supporting the Democratic Party. That's no different than the way Fox News, teabaggers and the rest of the right wing make things out to be so ridiculously over simplified as to not even have any basis in reality with all the complexity of the issues. Therefore, not understanding fully the implications of all the options, you choose to whine and complain but never ever having a reasonable, workable alternative. Just whining and complaining.

[jpgray]

13. Let me see if I understand you

You mean something like the following: There is no identifiable right or wrong position on torture, warrantless wiretapping, extraordinary rendition or assassination of citizens by executive fiat. Further, these policies are simply too complex for any but party leaders to address.

If that's inaccurate, then tell me this: why is a rejection of these policies--contrary to the Constitution and contrary to our legal tradition--only whining, while support of the same is a serious, informed opinion?

Why is support for tax cuts and attacks on social security taken seriously and lavished with committees, speeches, and attention, while support for ending too-big-to-fail or the cycle of bubble-crash-bailout is seen as pessimistic whining?

I fail to see how one position deserves respect while the other does not.

Incidentally, would you point me to where I argue to withdraw support from Democrats? A refusal to excuse bad behavior does not equate to wholesale abandonment--that would be no stranger a philosophy in parenting than it is in politics.

[KharmaTrain]

7. Lots Of Thin Skins Out There...

Some are looking for a reason to complain...they've been disappointed by this administration not fulfilling promises or taking their agenda seriously. Thus when something like this pops up it's all but predictable it's going to be splashed and trashed around as more "proof" that they're being slighted or ignored.

Inversely you can see a growing frustration within this administration that they're not being recognized for the keeping this country from going down the tubes and for the meaningful legislation they have passed. It's turning into an ugly game as each side becomes more entrenched in their positions and relationships fray at what could be the expense of the Democratic party losing control of the House. And I then expect even more finger pointing as each side will blame the others and the polarization will become even more pronounced.

[The Backlash Cometh]

12. I have no idea.

Here we were, minding our own business...

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

15. I can't quite wrap my head around any attempt at a "big picture". Every option seems far-fetched.

Some people say that Democrats "want to lose". That seems absurd, and yet...
Others say Democrats are convinced the gold mine of votes is in the right. That sounds stupid, and yet...
Powerful groups blackmailing Democrats into "throwing the fight", a la Matt Murdock's father? That sounds comic-book-y, and yet...

The entire fiasco is utterly baffling.

[jpgray]

19. I wonder if it's just frustration with selling their accomplishments this cycle

They passed (what they view as) the best policy that could possibly get passed, and yet no one is satisfied. The establishment opinion and Congressional Democrats are running away from supporting health care reform and the concept of stimulus in general, the right is ranting about contradictory nonsense concerning a lower deficit and more taxes (and getting respect doing it), and the left is saying there are serious problems with virtually every major policy the Obama administration is tied to.

They have a choice of critics there to paint as whiners, but for some bizarre reason they've chosen the left. What is so particularly whiny about the left compared to other critics? Why single out what should be your most motivated base of GOTV support? Is the idea that it looks good to independents, or to more disinterested voters at large? To the media?

I'm confused as well.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

20. "If I look too lefty my corporate donors will bolt and finance my primary adversary."

Maybe there's some of it. That would be the Jack Murdock explanation.

Doesn't explain everything, though.

[gkhouston]

23. No, it doesn't. Why not simply give, "all Dems need to band together" speeches

instead of singling out a chunk of the party? :shrug:

[jpgray]

27. Because that chunk of the party is weakly represented in the establishment?

In the circles Obama and other national party leaders move in, they are extremely unlikely to encounter a critical leftist on any regular basis. Critical centrists, blue dogs and the like, are everywhere, however, and so it might seem absurd to them that policy viewed as radical socialism in the Beltway is viewed as centrist mediocrity by the left. Now, the latter group has more of an argument, but less of a voice, and that may be in the end what it is all about.

[asdjrocky]

17. The White House, Biden and Obama.

The Senate and the House. The Republicans and the Democrats.

The people just want what is due them for voting, working hard and donating. Perhaps once upon a time voting had consequences in America, no longer.

[Individualist]

21. +1

They whine when criticized.