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tiptoe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-02-10 09:09 PM Original message |
10/02 Richard Charnin's House & Senate RV/LV Polling Forecast Model (w latest Newsweek Generic poll) |
Edited on Sat Oct-02-10 09:11 PM by tiptoe
2010 Midterm House & Senate Forecast Model: RV/LV Polls, Undecided Voters & Election Fraud bit.ly/auSg8p Richard Charnin (TruthIsAll) source: http://richardcharnin.com/2010ElectionForecastModels.htm October 2, 2010 The House and Senate forecast models provide comprehensive analysis of Registered Voter (RV) and Likely Voter (LV) polls. The assumption is that the election is held today. Pre-election polls interview registered voters; likely voter polls are a sub-sample. They are not separate polls. The Senate model employs simulation analysis of the latest RV and LV polls to forecast average GOP net gains, associated win probabilities and trends. The built-in sensitivity analysis displays the effects of various undecided voter allocation and vote-switching scenarios. The House model provides a summary comparison of the latest RV and LV Generic polls, win probabilities and a moving average projection. As in the Senate model, the sensitivity analyses displays the effect of various undecided voter and vote-switching assumptions on forecast vote shares, House seats and win probabilities. The 2010 summary table illustrates the wide difference between Rasmussen and other pollsters. The 2006-2010 Generic Poll table provides a historical context. Latest Polling Analysis The latest Newsweek Generic RV poll has the Democrats leading 48-43%, their biggest lead since the Gallup 49-43% RV poll in July. The GOP average LV poll margin is 5% higher than the average RV margin. Senate Models RV & LV (15 RV and 22 LV polls) Most of the RV polls are from CNN/Time. The Democrats have a 52.4-45.6 simulated seat margin (100% win probability). The Democrats lead the 37-poll weighted average by 44.7-43.8%. The Democrats lead the 15 RV poll unweighted average by 46.1-41.1 and the corresponding 15 RV polls by 44.1-43.9%. LV (37 LV polls) Most polls are from Rasmussen. The Democrats have a 50.0-48.0 simulated seat margin (91.5% win probability). The GOP leads the LV poll weighted average by 46.2-42.8 (4.7% difference in margin from the RV&LV average). Each 1% incremental vote-switch to the GOP gives them 2 additional seats (Table 5). House Models RV (12 polls) The GOP leads the average by 45.7-43.8%. The GOP has a 223-212 seat margin (73% win probability). LV (10 polls) The GOP leads the average by 47.0-40.0% (5.2% difference in margin from the RV average). The GOP wins control by a 235-200 seat margin (99% win probability). Each 1% incremental vote-switch to the GOP gives them 4 additional seats (Table 7). Democrats always do better in the full RV sample than in the LV sub-sample (see the LVCM model below). LV polls exclude millions of registered voters who actually vote — and most of them are Democrats. In addition, millions of votes are cast but never counted in every election — and most of them are Democratic as well. The good news is that proliferation of electronic voting has reduced the uncounted vote rate. The bad news is that votes can be switched, stuffed or dropped at the voting machine and/or the central tabulator where they are counted. Since 2000, LV poll projections have closely matched recorded vote-count shares and final exit polls (which are "forced" to match the recorded vote). The RV poll projections closely matched the unadjusted-state and preliminary-national exit polls. As Election Day approaches, the MSM gradually phases out RV polls for LVs which lowball the projected Democratic vote share. And so the general public is prepared for the fraudulent recorded vote-counts that the MSM always knows are coming. October 2 House and Senate Forecast Summary Average Share (%) GOP Projected Share (%) Projected Seats WinProb Polls Senate Unwtd Avg 15 15 Wtd Avg 37 37 House 12 10 22 Type RV LV Diff RV&LV LV Diff RV LV Diff Total Dem 46.1 44.1 -2.0 44.7 42.8 -2.0 43.8 40.0 -3.8 42.1 GOP 41.1 43.9 2.8 43.8 46.6 2.8 45.7 47.0 1.3 46.3 Spread -5.1 -0.3 4.8 -0.9 3.8 4.7 1.8 7.0 5.2 4.2 Dem - - 50.5 48.1 -2.4 49.1 46.5 -2.6 47.9 GOP - - 49.5 51.9 2.4 50.9 53.5 2.6 52.1 Dem - - 52.5 50.0 -2.5 211.7 200.4 -11.3 206.5 GOP - - 45.4 48.1 2.7 223.3 234.6 11.3 228.5 GOP - - 0.0% 8.5% 8.5% 73% 99% 26% 91% The media/pollster drumbeat of a “horse race” is largely based on LV polls. The narrative conditions the public to expect a recorded vote which in fact understates the True Democratic share. The pollsters discount the RV sample for a fraud component, fully expecting that the LV projections will be a close match to the recorded vote — but they never mention the F-word. They know that votes are miscounted in every election. And so their final LV-based polling forecasts are usually quite accurate. Pollsters are paid to predict the recorded vote—not the True Vote. The 2010 midterms are different from the last four elections in that a low Democratic voter turnout is expected. Election fraud will very likely cost the Democrats a few seats in the House and Senate. And the number will be close to the difference between the RV and LV samples. But there may not be RV samples for us to calculate the difference on Election Day. And once again, pollsters will be complimented on how closely their final LV predictions matched the recorded vote. For the Senate races, polling websites generally display only LV polls. CNN/Time provides both RV and LV samples, but only the LVs are listed at realclearpolitics.com. The Senate RV forecast model is therefore a mix of RV and LV polls. Without a full corresponding RV poll for every LV sample, a comparable analysis is difficult. In the House, Generic polls have had a more equitable mix of RV and LV samples. But expect a shift to virtually all LV samples as Election Day approaches. The Fraud Component In 2004, 2006 and 2008, projections based on final pre-election LV polls underestimated voter turnout and yet closely matched impossible final exit polls and fraudulent recorded vote counts. Projections based on final pre-election RV polls (adjusted for undecided voters) were a close match to the unadjusted preliminary exit polls and the True Vote. Pre-election Model: Recorded vote share = LV poll projection = RV poll projection + Fraud component Post-election Model: Recorded vote share = Final Exit Poll = Unadjusted Preliminary Exit Poll + Fraud component Applying the formula to the latest Senate and House Generic Polls: Projected GOP Senate Vote Share: Share = 51.9 = 49.5 + Fraud component Fraud component = 2.4% (4.8% margin). Assuming the RV projection represents the True Vote (zero fraud): Each additional 1% vote-switch results in a GOP gain of 2 seats (Table 5). Projected GOP House Vote Share: Share = 53.5 = 50.9 + Fraud component Fraud component = 2.6% (5.2% margin) Assuming the RV projection represents the True Vote (zero fraud): Each additional 1% vote-switch results in a GOP gain of 4 seats (Table 7). The Likely Voter Cutoff Model (LVCM) In 2004, there were 22 million voters who did not vote in 2000. Nearly 60% of newly registered voters were Democrats for Kerry. In the 2006 midterms, a Democratic tsunami gave them control of both houses. In 2008, there were approximately 15 million new voters, of whom 70% voted for Obama. All pre-election polls interview registered voters. Likely Voter (LV) polls are a subset of the full Registered Voter (RV) sample. LV polls exclude most "new" registered voters–first-timers and others who did not vote in the prior election. Most pollsters use the Likely Voter Cutoff Model (LVCM), a series of questions regarding past voting history, residential transience, intent to vote, etc. Since students, transients, low-income voters, immigrant new voters, etc. are much more likely to give "No" answers than established, wealthier, non-transient voters, Republicans are more likely to exceed the cutoff than Democrats. A respondent who indicates “yes” to four out of seven questions might be down-weighted to 50% compared to one who answers “yes” to all seven. bit.ly/a8UYRb The LVCM assigns a weight of zero to all respondents falling below the cutoff, eliminating them from the sample. But these potential voters have more than a zero probability of voting. The number of "Yes" answers required to qualify as a likely voter is set based on how the pollster wants the sample to turn out. The more Republicans the pollster wants in the sample, the more "Yes" answers are required. This serves to eliminate many Democrats and skews the sample to the GOP. Undecided Voters, Turnout and Election Fraud In 2004, 2006 and 2008, projections based on final pre-election LV polls closely matched fraudulent recorded vote count shares. Projections based on the final pre-election RV polls closely matched the unadjusted exit polls. Undecided voters typically break heavily for the challenger. In each of the last three elections, the Democrats were the challengers, but many pollsters did not allocate accordingly. Democratic voter turnout was underestimated by the pre-election LV polls (see 2004 Final Pre-election Polls). bit.ly/d2yEQh bit.ly/claROe bit.ly/aW4gYX Final exit polls are always "forced" to match the recorded vote count, (i.e. the final pre-election LV polls). The underlying assumption is that the recorded vote count is correct (i.e. zero fraud). In 2004 and 2008, the Final National Exit Polls required an impossible turnout of returning Bush voters (110% and 103%, respectively). In the 2004 Final NEP (13660 respondents), the Bush vote shares were increased dramatically over the 12:22am Preliminary NEP (13047 respondents). For 2008, the NEP media consortium of news outlets FOX, CNN, AP, ABC, CBS and NBC has suppressed results of fifty-one unadjusted-state and three un-forced preliminary-national exit polls. bit.ly/bAc6OK bit.ly/amsJiB bit.ly/bRhlz4 bit.ly/diYEJ5 bit.ly/a2j7xl bit.ly/bsL7lk bit.ly/dfIPTI Once again, as in every election cycle, the media avoids the real issues. Martha Coakley won the hand-counts in Massachusetts for Ted Kennedy’s seat but lost to Scott Brown; Vic Rawl won the absentee vote but lost to unknown Alvin Greene in the South Carolina Democratic Senate primary; Mike Castle won the absentee ballots but lost to Christine O'Donnell in the Delaware GOP Senate primary. But there has not been a peep about any of this in the mainstream media. Apparently, we must just accept the conventional wisdom that even though the votes have vanished in cyberspace and can never be verified, they were not tampered with. The media lockdown is not limited to past stolen elections. The MSM prepares us for election fraud by listing final pre-election LV polls and ignoring RV polls. Table 1 2010 Midterms: Senate and House Forecast Model Senate Forecast Simulation Summary http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/senate bit.ly/azDXlw 02-Oct # Polls 15 15 37 Poll Type RVonly onlyLV RV&LV Current Senate Seats Simulation Forecast¹ 37 RV&LV Net Gain Win Prob² 37 OnlyLV Net Gain Win Prob² Unwtd Avg Dem 46.1 44.1 41.4 Dem 57 Total Seats 52.5 - 100.0% 50.0 - 91.5% Share (%) GOP 41.1 43.9 47.6 GOP 41 45.5 4.5 0.0% 48.0 7.0 8.5% Undec 12.8 12.0 10.9 Ind 2 2 - - 2 - - ASSUMPTIONS Fraud MoE UVA 0.0% 4.0% 50.0% Projection (table) RV&LV Seats Flip to Lean Safe Tossup Dem 54 1 2 8 7 GOP 44 4 4 16 0 NOTES: ¹ Average of a 200 election trial simulation ² Probability of winning 50 senate seat majority 02-Oct tossup* Type Poll Share % GOP % Projection % (after UVA) GOP % GOP Within AK AL AR AZ CA CO CT DE FL GA HI IA ID IL IN KS KY LA MD MO NC ND NH NV NY NY OH OK OR PA SC SD UT WA VT WI WV Seat Held By R R D R D D* D* D R R D R R D* D R R* R D R R D R D D D R R D D* R R R D D D* D* RV&LV OnlyLV Diff RV RV RV RV RV RV RV RV RV RV RV RV RV RV RV Dem 44.7 42.8 (2.0) 20 30 39 37 56 47 49 59 31 34 68 37 27 42 34 24 46 33 54 44 36 25 40 42 57 63 42 24 54 45 30 30 25 50 64 48 46 GOP 43.8 46.6 2.8 48 59 53 51 37 44 46 34 38 52 20 55 64 38 50 66 46 54 38 52 49 69 48 34 31 30 49 67 37 45 70 70 52 44 29 46 48 Unsure 11.4 10.7 (0.8) 32 11 8 12 7 9 5 7 31 14 12 8 9 20 16 10 8 13 8 4 15 6 12 24 12 7 9 9 9 10 0 0 23 6 7 6 6 Margin (0.9) 3.8 4.7 28 29 14 14 (19) (3) (3) (25) 7 18 (48) 18 37 (4) 16 42 0 21 (16) 8 13 44 8 (8) (26) (33) 7 43 (17) 0 40 40 27 (6) (35) (2) 2 Dem 50.5 48.1 (2.4) 36.0 35.5 43.0 43.0 59.5 51.5 51.5 62.5 46.5 41.0 74.0 41.0 31.5 52.0 42.0 29.0 50.0 39.5 58.0 46.0 43.5 28.0 46.0 54.0 63.0 66.5 46.5 28.5 58.5 50.0 30.0 30.0 36.5 53.0 67.5 51.0 49.0 GOP 49.5 51.9 2.4 64.0 64.5 57.0 57.0 40.5 48.5 48.5 37.5 53.5 59.0 26.0 59.0 68.5 48.0 58.0 71.0 50.0 60.5 42.0 54.0 56.5 72.0 54.0 46.0 37.0 33.5 53.5 71.5 41.5 50.0 70.0 70.0 63.5 47.0 32.5 49.0 51.0 Margin (0.9) 3.8 4.7 28.0 29.0 14.0 14.0 (19.0) (3.0) (3.0) (25.0) 7.0 18.0 (48.0) 18.0 37.0 (4.0) 16.0 42.0 0.0 21.0 (16.0) 8.0 13.0 44.0 8.0 (8.0) (26.0) (33.0) 7.0 43.0 (17.0) 0.0 40.0 40.0 27.0 (6.0) (35.0) (2.0) 2.0 Win Prob² 0.0% 8.5% 100% 100% 100% 100% 0% 23% 23% 0% 96% 100% 0% 100% 100% 16% 100% 100% 50% 100% 0% 98% 100% 100% 98% 2% 0% 0% 96% 100% 0% 50% 100% 100% 100% 7% 0% 31% 69% Flip 5 GOP GOP Dem GOP GOP MoE 13 CO CT FL IL KY MO NH NV OH PA WA WI WV Table 2 Probability Distribution of GOP Net Gains OnlyLV Gain Seats Probability Exact At least 0 41 0.0% 100.0% 1 42 0.0% 100.0% 2 43 0.0% 100.0% 3 44 0.0% 100.0% 4 45 2.5% 100.0% 5 46 10.5% 97.5% 6 47 27.0% 87.0% 7 48 28.5% 60.0% 8 49 23.0% 31.5% 9 50 8.0% 8.5% 10 51 0.5% 0.5% Table 3 Projection Trend Date LV Polls Net GOP RV/LV Polls Net GOP 26-Aug 1-Sep 10-Sep 15-Sep 26-Sep 02-Oct Dem 49.0 48.2 47.9 47.8 47.6 48.1 GOP 51.0 51.8 52.1 52.2 52.4 51.9 Seats 6.2 8.0 7.3 6.7 6.4 7.0 Dem 50.5 49.5 49.6 49.3 49.5 50.5 GOP 49.5 50.5 50.4 50.7 50.5 49.5 Seats 4.4 6.0 5.3 4.3 4.2 4.5 Table 4 GOP Senate Seat Forecast Sensitivity to Undecided Voter Allocation and Poll Type Vote Share % Seats (table) Seats (simulation) Net Gain (simulation) UVA 40% 45% 50% 55% 60% LV 50.8 51.4 51.9 52.4 53.0 RV/LV 48.4 49.0 49.5 50.1 50.7 LV 48 48 49 50 50 RV/LV 44 44 44 46 46 LV 46.6 47.4 48.0 48.6 49.3 RV&LV 44.1 44.8 45.5 46.3 47.2 LV 5.6 6.4 7.0 7.6 8.3 RV/LV 3.1 3.8 4.5 5.3 6.2 Table 5 GOP Forecast Sensitivity to Undecided Voter Allocation and Vote Switch Undecided Voter Allocation and Vote-Switch incrementsapplied to RV poll projection (zero fraud) Projections RV/LV – Undecided Vote Allocation to GOP 40% 45% 50% 55% 60% 3 Vote Switch to GOP 0% 1% 2% 3% 4% 3 4 6 8 9 3 5 8 8 10 3 5 8 9 10 5 6 9 11 11 5 8 10 11 11 44 0% 1% 2% 3% 4% 44 45 47 49 50 44 46 49 49 51 44 46 49 50 51 46 47 50 52 52 46 49 51 52 52 Table 6 House Generic Ballot Forecasting Model http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/generic_congressional_vote-901.html#polls PROJECTION UVA 50% 50% CURRENT SEATS 178 255 Latest POLL AVERAGE PROJECTED 2-PARTY % Projected Seats 3% MoE GOP Model LV RV Total 2010 LV RV A Total Polls 10 12 22 Polls 58 87 3 148 GOP 47.0 45.7 46.3 GOP 45.4 45.2 40.0 45.2 Dem 40.0 43.8 42.1 Dem 38.6 43.7 43.3 41.7 GOP 53.5 50.9 52.1 GOP 53.4 50.7 48.3 51.7 Dem 46.5 49.1 47.9 Dem 46.6 49.3 51.7 48.3 GOP 235 223 228 GOP 234 223 212 227 Dem 200 212 207 Dem 201 212 223 208 WinProb 99% 73% 91% WinProb 99% 68% 14% 87% Table 7 Sensitivity Analysis, GOP House Forecast: # of GOP House Seats Undecided Voter Allocation and Vote-Switch increments applied to RV poll projection Base case assumptions: 50% UVA to GOP Zero Vote-switch % to GOP Projections Undecided Voter Allocation to GOP 40% 45% 50% 55% 60% 223 Sensitivity Analysis, GOP House Forecast: Probability of GOP winning a House Majority Undecided Voter Allocation and Vote-Switch increments applied to RV poll projection Base case assumptions: 50% UVA to GOP Zero Vote-switch % to GOP Undecided Voter Allocation to GOP 40% 45% 50% 55% 60% 73% GOP House Majority Win Probability Table 8 Latest Generic Polls POLL PROJECTED 2-PARTY SHARE GOP GOP PROJECTED MOVING AVERAGE GOP Pollster Newsweek FOX News Gallup Rasmussen Reports CNN/Opinion Research Politico/GWU/Battleground Reuters/Ipsos Gallup Rasmussen Reports FOX News POS McClatchy/Marist CBS News/NY Times Associated Press/GfK PPP (D) Politico/GWU/Battleground Gallup Rasmussen Reports Quinnipiac Gallup Rasmussen Reports CNN/Opinion Research ABC News/Wash Post FOX News USA Today/Gallup Rasmussen Reports Gallup Newsweek Reuters/Ipsos Gallup Date 9/29 - 9/30 9/28 - 9/29 9/20 - 9/26 9/20 - 9/26 9/21 - 9/23 9/19 - 9/22 9/16 - 9/19 9/13 - 9/19 9/13 - 9/19 9/14 - 9/16 9/14 - 9/16 9/14 - 9/16 9/10 - 9/14 9/8 - 9/13 9/10 - 9/13 9/7 - 9/9 9/6-9/12 9/6-9/12 8/31-9/7 8/30 - 9/5 8/30 - 9/5 9/1 - 9/2 8/30 - 9/2 9/1 - 9/2 8/27 - 8/30 8/23 - 8/29 8/23 - 8/29 8/25 - 8/26 8/19 - 8/22 8/16 - 8/22 Sample 902 900 3000 3500 506 1000 953 2925 3500 900 800 815 na na 590 1000 1527 3500 1905 1651 3500 936 na 900 928 3500 1540 856 950 1600 Type RV RV RV LV LV LV RV RV LV RV LV RV LV LV RV LV RV LV RV RV LV RV LV RV RV LV RV RV RV RV GOP 43 44 46 46 53 47 45 45 48 46 44 47 40 53 44 43 48 48 42 46 48 52 53 46 49 45 51 45 46 47 Dem 48 39 46 40 44 42 46 46 38 40 39 45 38 43 45 43 43 37 37 46 36 45 40 37 43 39 41 45 45 44 GOP 52.5 50.0 53.0 54.5 52.5 49.5 49.5 55.0 53.0 52.5 51.0 51.0 55.0 49.5 50.0 52.5 55.5 52.5 50.0 56.0 53.5 56.5 54.5 53.0 53.0 55.0 50.0 50.5 51.5 54.5 Dem 47.5 50.0 47.0 45.5 47.5 50.5 50.5 45.0 47.0 47.5 49.0 49.0 45.0 50.5 50.0 47.5 44.5 47.5 50.0 44.0 46.5 43.5 45.5 47.0 47.0 45.0 50.0 49.5 48.5 45.5 Margin Seats 208 230 219 232 239 230 217 217 241 232 230 224 224 241 217 219 230 243 230 219 246 235 248 239 232 232 241 219 221 226 WinProb 5% 95% 50% 98% 100% 95% 37% 37% 100% 98% 95% 74% 74% 100% 37% 50% 95% 100% 95% 50% 100% 99% 100% 100% 98% 98% 100% 50% 63% 84% GOP 51.70 52.20 52.05 52.15 52.35 51.85 51.60 51.90 52.50 52.25 51.95 52.30 52.55 53.10 53.05 53.40 53.70 53.95 53.40 53.20 53.35 53.20 53.15 52.70 52.60 52.90 52.95 52.60 52.75 53.05 Dem 48.30 47.80 47.95 47.85 47.65 48.15 48.40 48.10 47.50 47.75 48.05 47.70 47.45 46.90 46.95 46.60 46.30 46.05 46.60 46.80 46.65 46.80 46.85 47.30 47.40 47.10 47.05 47.40 47.25 46.95 Margin 3.40 4.40 4.10 4.30 4.70 3.70 3.20 3.80 5.00 4.50 3.90 4.60 5.10 6.20 6.10 6.80 7.40 7.90 6.80 6.40 6.70 6.40 6.30 5.40 5.20 5.80 5.90 5.20 5.50 6.10 Seats 227 229 228 229 230 227 226 228 230 229 228 229 230 233 233 234 236 237 234 233 234 233 233 231 231 232 232 231 231 233 Table 9 Pollster Averages POLL AVERAGE PROJECTED 2-PARTY SHARE GOP GOP Polling Firm Rasmussen Reports Gallup FOX News PPP (D) Democracy Corps (D) CNN/Opinion Research ABC News/Wash Post Ipsos/McClatchy USA Today/Gallup Quinnipiac Newsweek Reuters/Ipsos Time McLaughlin & Associates (R) Associated Press/GfK Count 37 31 12 8 7 9 5 4 3 4 2 3 2 2 2 Sample 3500 1447 900 784 869 892 na 913 970 1977 882 917 915 1000 445 MoE 1.7% 2.6% 3.3% 3.5% 3.3% 3.3% 3.0% 3.2% 3.1% 2.2% 3.3% 3.2% 3.2% 3.1% 4.6% GOP 45.2 46.4 42.8 44.3 46.0 48.9 47.4 43.5 46.0 41.3 44.0 45.7 42.5 42.0 51.0 Dem 36.9 45.1 38.7 42.5 44.1 45.3 45.0 44.8 45.3 39.0 45.0 45.0 40.0 36.0 44.0 GOP 54.1 50.6 52.1 50.9 50.9 51.8 51.2 49.4 50.3 51.1 49.5 50.3 51.3 53.0 53.5 Dem 45.9 49.4 47.9 49.1 49.1 48.2 48.8 50.6 49.7 48.9 50.5 49.7 48.8 47.0 46.5 Seats 237 222 228 223 223 227 225 217 221 224 217 221 225 232 235 WinProb 100% 66% 91% 72% 73% 88% 78% 34% 59% 77% 37% 59% 79% 98% 99% Table 10 2006-2010 Registered and Likely Voter Poll Summary (refer to source) Conclusion If you believe that Kerry won in 2004 and that landslides were denied in 2006 and 2008, then you must also believe that the a) pre-election RV polls were essentially correct b) pre-election LV polls were wrong c) unadjusted exit polls were essentially correct d) Final National Exit Poll was impossible e) Elections were fraudulent and resulted in a 4–5% reduction in the True Democratic share If you believe that Bush won fairly in 2004 and the Democratic landslides of 2006 and 2008 were not denied, then you must believe that the a) Recorded vote matched the True Vote b) Pre-election LV polls matched the recorded vote c) Pre-election RV polls overstated the Democratic True vote d) Unadjusted exit polls overstated the Democratic True vote e) Final National Exit polls matched the recorded (True) vote, even though an impossible number of returning Bush voters were required f) Elections were fraud-free even though the votes were not and could not be verified |
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bluerum (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-02-10 09:12 PM Response to Original message |
1. + |
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msongs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-02-10 09:20 PM Response to Original message |
2. democrats COULD do something about vote fraud but choose not to -> |
paper ballots counted by hand in public at the precinct level. not gonna happen as a result of any democratic party initiative though...or republican either of course.
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tiptoe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-02-10 11:45 PM Response to Reply #2 |
3. They got it done in Oregon: Vote-by-mail *with* *mandatory* hand recounts of electronic tallies... |
Edited on Sat Oct-02-10 11:54 PM by tiptoe
Record voter turnouts plus: No recount conducted in Oregon has ever turned up evidence that a tally machine failed to correctly count votes. A full recount is the ultimate test and with each election we always have at least one or two. — John Lindback, Director Elections Division, Oregon Secretary of State's Office |
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tiptoe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-03-10 06:26 PM Response to Reply #2 |
4. The "GOP" (that Susan Eisenhower & 344K known Repubs de-registered) platform is election fraud. nt |
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