I think for the first time ever I have become truly disgusted with a great deal here at DU.

[Drunken Irishman]

We've had our differences. We've fought. We've said some ugly things. But tonight was the final straw. I am ashamed to admit I post on DU.

This place jumped the shark tonight.

Unfuckingbelievable.

[Number23]

1. What happened??

[lonestarnot]

2. What are you talking about?

[Swamp Rat]

3. The Fonz

Is he not cool anymore? :shrug:

[lonestarnot]

4. ro.

:rofl:

[lonestarnot]

9. You bad. Me thinks me sees z problem.

And it ain't a liar wit pants on fia.

[HughMoran]

7. Heartless people playing the libertarian card over a fire dept watching a mans house burn

His pets burned alive.

I know I think it's one of the most disgusting episodes I've ever experienced here.

[SargeUNN]

59. I will have to seriously consider if I will donate or accept

anyone donating in my here. I honestly am shocked that such comments were allow to continue and yet it was. I am not so sure that DU is for Democrats anymore and will be watching to see if maybe it is time I withdraw my recommendation of this site. I hope I don't have to go that way but I think that decision raises some very serious concerns of if this site has lost it's value.

[Larry Ogg]

117. Don't let your moralizing revulsion get the best of you,

instead take the opportunity to examine the views of those who are intolerant, learn what makes them tick..., see the lies that has poisoned their mind and turned their hearts cold, it's an epitome to their leader. Learn from them and strengthen your resolve to be more compassionate then the resolve afforded them. Do this and you will become like most people of conscience, sufferable but above the petty blindness...

[Dappleganger]

90. While I missed just how badly that went down...

I saw it taking a turn and just backed away.

As I said in another thread, lately I have to take a hard look at the top of the page to remind myself this is a democratic forum.

[sammythecat]

118. I agree

I wanted to comment but didn't have the words or energy. It would have been futile anyway. The original story was shocking enough, but the cold-hearted smugness displayed in the responses by DU'ers was worse. Unexpected, sad, and severely disappointing.

[True_Blue]

123. How horrible!

I'm glad I missed that thread.

[derby378]

132. Good thing I missed it, then...

...although it could be enough for me to start putting some folks on my first-ever "Ignore" list.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Let me guess, like me you discovered just how deep

the cultural differences are?

That is not a small valley, but a deep chasm. I'd say as deep and wide as the Grand Canyon.

No I don't pretend to comprehend it. It is truly an alien country.

[FirstTimeVoterAt37]

6. I know what you're talking about

And I agree with you. I thought I'd wandered into the wrong site. Fucking sick.

[smirkymonkey]

130. +1000

[NanceGreggs]

8. I couldn't agree more.

And jumped the shark doesn't even come close to describing it.

[Lilith Velkor]

139. Totally with you on this one, Nance.

Jesus Fuck.

[TorchTheWitch]

174. absolutely agree

I'm sickened.

[Hekate]

10. Oh God. It looks like I'm going to have to find out what happened and I'm not gonna like it

People here are actually blaming the man in Tennessee for the FD letting his house burn to the ground? Do they think there should be a separate assessment for cops and ambulances too--and if you forget to pay those (or don't have the funds after paying taxes) that the cops should walk away if you get shot and the EMTs should leave you to bleed to death in the road?

:argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh:

[WeekendWarrior]

14. Apparently so. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. Yes

I mean I did the wrong thing to go into burning houses in TJ. Not like they paid their taxes and they did break the law by engaging in land invasion. 'parently that is part of the code.

I do not comprehend this one iota.

[Fumesucker]

38. No, people are pointing out the fucking reality of how things are in Wingtopia..

Nobody here wants it to be that way, but that is the way the wingnuts do things when they have their way, which they do in a fair portion of the country.

Pretty much like our health care system is, if you don't have the money then die scumbag.

[Hekate]

48. I checked around DU and folks are not "pointing out the reality" but DEFENDING it...

... and blaming their fellow citizen for not being with the program. It's really quite an amazing thing to witness here.

Sorry I'm not providing any links, because not only would that be a call-out, but I recognize that some of you have already been in those threads so you have already seen what I am referring to.

What a world, what a world.

Hekate

[Fumesucker]

51. The wingnuts in that county would bankrupt the city fighting their fires..

Then they would declare victory and laugh at the stupid city libruls..

That is the reality that you cannot grok unless you actually live in the heart of darkness.

I don't like what the FD had to do but I understand why they did it because practically everyone around me is a wingnut and they would do exactly as I said.

They had *already* tried putting out the fires and then billing people, the wingnuts didn't fucking pay.

[Dappleganger]

91. I don't expect people on our side to behave that poorly

towards living beings.

[Hannah Bell]

190. i don't think anyone here would bankrupt their own city to pay for fire services in another city

that had the means to pay but refused to.

i don't think you would, either.

and i wouldn't feel guilty about choosing not to.

[Confusious]

199. Sorry, bankrupting myself doesn't help anyone.

allowing a fucking junkie to rob me blind doesn't help anyone.

[Hello_Kitty]

133. Yep. Aligns perfectly with my belief about many of the HCR supporters here.

Authoritarians who don't really care what's in the plan, who's helped by it, or how much it really will cost people. By God, they're gonna MAKE those uninsured deadbeats buy insurance and that's all that matters!

[WolverineDG]

74. It's basic civics & people don't want to understand that

because it interferes with their "everything should be free" idealism. Which would be great, except the money for the "free everything" has to come from somewhere.

Now, ideally, the county would have an agreement with the city to cover the unincorporated areas & tax county residents accordingly, but the "no new taxes" crowd there didn't like that, so they opted for the fee-based system instead. And STILL people expect to get something for nothing.

dg

[tnlefty]

185. Well I never had that choice.

I live in a part of Hamilton County, TN that is WELL outside the city's jurisdiction when it comes, to fire, etc. We are subject to the local volunteer fired dept. with the subscription fee. Yeah, there are assholes who don't want to pay any fee for anything, but I know more people who CAN'T pay any additional fees, have had to (after years of being gainfully employed) seek help from food banks, ask for help paying their electric bills, etc. because their jobs are gone or they've been laid off, etc. and so forth and so on...and I'm willing to bet that this isn't just in my state. OH and MI have been hard hit by job losses for years before it really took a toll on the rest of the country. Over the past 3 yrs. we've had an influx of folks from OH and MI on rumors about the fucking VW plant that is being built in my county. That was after the post Katrina influx, and another influx of Floridians who left when insuring their property(ies) was gonna be unaffordable or insurance was not going to be available.

Oh, county residents were taxed years ago so that those in the city could get a tax break after dumping their schools into the lap of the county schools (we in the county didn't get a vote on that).... Oh, and because I live in one of the 4 largest counties in TN our tax money that should be going to pay for schools is spread out to surrounding counties while our school system suffers. I wouldn't have so much of a problem with that, but sometimes when I drive through Bradley and surrounding counties I see properties that make my place look like a shack and their property tax rates are lower than mine...perhaps the wealthy in those counties should buck up and pay the rates that those of us in Hamilton, Knox, Davidson and Shelby Counties have to pay. Believe me, they're laughing at what they get away with.

It's not so easily boiled down into white or black thinking.

[Hannah Bell]

191. It is in this case. The unincorporated county has a higher median income than the city.

And this particular property owner gets ag subsidies in two states and already had a previous fire call he wasn't charged for. He continued not to pay the lousy $6 a month cost. Because he thought he could get it for free. Which he himself stated.

[tnlefty]

198. Well the best way that I can respond is that the decent

people in this wouldn't have allowed that to happen, in other words, whether he paid or didn't pay a fee wouldn't have mattered to the decent folks of this state. Taking him to task later would be more likely, but allowing his house to burn to the ground...just fucking no.

Ag subsidies? Yeah, I know farmers who really need them and others who try to return them, but that's no reason to let someone's house burn to the ground, none at all.

Bottom line for me: most of the people in this state are decent people who wouldn't allow someone's house to burn to the ground, and I hope that the fire dept. who allowed this happen are haunted for the rest of their lives.

Does this mean that I think someone should get something for nothing? Hell no, but this should never have happened, put the fire out and have a debate later. And this is all I have to say about this as I find it repulsive and it doesn't represent the better nature of folks in this state.

[Confusious]

200. they've been having the debate for 20 years

city vs county.

The poor of the city are picking up the tab for the rich in the county. 20 years they've been sucking off the city. Is that moral?

[Amonester]

58. That's About The Similar

i feel :hangover:

[smirkymonkey]

131. I know it's a cliche, but "There is ALWAYS enough money for war"

There is no excuse for this kind of shit or the people who justify it.

[bobbolink]

145. There has always been a strong contingent here of libertarians.

It is allowed, and they are loud.

I have come to the conclusion that it is inevitable that libertarianism will eventually triumph in the US. 30% sales tax on everyone... including those on fixed incomes, which means we will not survive.

And take it from there.

It is a matter of time.

"I got mine. Fuck you." The Dems are followers of that, too, and we poor folk have been trying to tell you that. Maybe now some of you will begin to hear us.

"First they came for the Jews, but....." Its happening. Its now. We poor folk are here for you to grab the clue of whats coming for you.

[K8-EEE]

11. OK well buh-bye now!

Just what we need right now is vague accusations and lectures and tantrums with no CONTENT whatsoever. LAME AND UNREC'D.

[lonestarnot]

15. All you have to do is look around you'll see the problem.

[K8-EEE]

17. I don't come here to look for problems

There's a lot of good information here, why gravitate to the food fight? And if you do why cry about it?

[lonestarnot]

18. Food fights. Discussion shows many points of view, some disgusting points of view in my opinion.

Don't have to "gravitate," meditate or aggitate, there are some disgusting opinions here tonight. Going to bed.

[K8-EEE]

19. Then argue with them there on that thread and block the disgusting ones

My problem was the OP is that they are yelling at everybody and not even saying why -- totally negative and unhelpful. If you find the entire DU community disgusting because of the remarks of a few people then leave.

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. More than just a few people

if you cannot be bothered why continue?

[Hekate]

22. Well, you certainly gravitated to this thread & griped. There's a thread on thyroid related obesity

... that just got started. Maybe you can get some "good information" there before the blame-warriors show up.

Hekate

[K8-EEE]

25. If you think MOST PEOPLE HERE are disgusting leave

If you think A FEW PEOPLE are disgusting then block them.

If you want to argue with those people on the topics, do it on those threads, I don't know WHAT the hell good is supposed to come with empty lectures to EVERYBODY about what a FEW people said about God knows what. Lame.

[Hekate]

32. I didn't say that, and I don't intend to leave, Kate. But I'm sure you can find another thread ...

... more to your liking. You've posted in this one several times and surely by now you KNOW what the OP is distressed about. He was not scolding you personally, was he? I saw no call-out.

For your part, why stick around and insult people like me personally? I certainly did nothing to provoke you, that I know of. If I did so inadvertently, I apologize deeply and will mend my ways.

Hekate

pssst: In case you really truly don't know why he's so upset, here's a clue: house fire. But don't let on it was me that told you.

[K8-EEE]

47. I love DU and have seen amazing kindness here

And have met some really cool, amazing people here, so I don't like to see this broadbrush characterization.

[Hekate]

49. You responded to your own post. How odd. Are you taking back your suggestion that I depart DU?

[K8-EEE]

52. If you think it's disgusting, you should probably

find somewhere less disgusting.

[Hekate]

55. Do not put words in my mouth. Thank you.

[LanternWaste]

87. I imagine about the same amount of good

"don't know WHAT the hell good is supposed to come with empty lectures..."

I imagine about the same amount of good as will come from negative responses to empty lectures.

[AlabamaLibrul]

197. "Frown power" in action. If we can't stand up for common decency on DU, where can we? n/t

[WeekendWarrior]

12. The first time? Really? nt

[TwilightGardener]

13. I'm pretty stunned, I must say.

[Cleita]

16. One of the reasons I've been coming to DU less and

less. When I first came to DU, Paul Wellstone was alive, and a large portion of the posters were Wellstone Democrats and we seemed united and on the same page politically. Man what's happening lately is so far from that.

[EFerrari]

20. The casual meanness in the last two years has been unreal.

I'm not surprised any more but it is sad.

[Radical Activist]

26. .

:spray:

[EFerrari]

40. Yeah, like that. It's the new normal. n/t

[SoCalDem]

62. sad but true..

No matter how innocuous a thread is, there will be at least 4 or 5 contrarians on it in no time..ready to "do battle"..as if their lives depended on it.....:(

I don't know what the solution might be..but for many of us, it's "take a long break"...and many do not return:(

I don't see what possible pleasure they get from shitting on every thread they reply to, but it must give them a rush..:shrug:

[Occulus]

70. The tent got too big.

We allowed former conservatives and, yes, more "Blue Dogs" into the tent; they proceeded to shit all over its base.

And yes, that's a fucking pun. It just happens to be exactly what happened.

:grr: :banghead:

[QC]

94. "Casual meanness" is a good way to put it.

Sometimes I think that a good many people only come here to be nasty to other people. And yes, it has gotten much, much worse in the past two to three years.

It's ironic that we are all disgusted by recent news accounts of bullying, when the bullying here goes on 24/7. When you get down to it, I think that the real divide here now has far more to do with behavior than with ideology.

[EFerrari]

95. The primary behavior that the admins tried to wall off in GDP

never ended, it just migrated. I agree, it isn't about ideology but about using ideology as a pretext for anti-social behavior.

[QC]

158. That was all handled very badly,

and the damage done to this community might never be repaired.

[awoke_in_2003]

101. more than two years...

it started in the primaries. We got invaded by people who got their 1000th post two weeks after joining. They have been disrupting ever since. When someone is being an ass look at their profile- probably joined after 2007. We were invaded by "new" democrats- or should I say, republicans pretending to be democrats?

[robdogbucky]

122. Not so fast my friend

I lurked here from day one. I did not join as a poster until the election of '08 heated up for many reasons. That does not mean I am a rethug pretending to be a democrat. I was born into a Democratic unionist working class family. The first Dems I worked for were named Kennedy, a presidential candidate and Lucey, his state manager and our then governor. I have never voted for anyone but Dems.

Over the years I lurked here there has been a great change with new members coming and old members going. They never acted like the over-the-top attack teams that now frequent the threads hereabouts. Even still, I may never make it to the hallowed 1000 post level. Are surveys and quarantines to election forums the answer? I don't know myself, I just know it is tiring to argue with the CCC and others that dominate the time here and ruin otherwise good threads.

It is getting too toxic on my old home in cyberspace, DU.

Carry on, regardless.






Just my dos centavos


robdogbucky

[awoke_in_2003]

162. I am not trying to imply...

that every one that joined after 07 are infiltrators, but that the majority of the disruptors did.

[QC]

129. Very true, but

we're not supposed to notice it.

[awoke_in_2003]

164. true...

and I am not using the '07 date as a blanket statement toward everyone that joined after that date. Just noting the fact that the most vocal disruptors did. Wasn't it Rush who called for some operation to do just that?

[EFerrari]

181. Chaos, to disrupt our primaries. n/t

[awoke_in_2003]

184. Ah yes, Operation Chaos...

too bad they didn't leave.

[Cetacea]

42. +1000

[stuntcat]

144. yah.

Soon as I signed into DU I was let down. I don't know many people, just my family, so I sorta took it for granted that anyone who voted D must be a good person.. kind, interesting.. But DU taught me the truth real fast!
They're not as bad as Retardicans, and some of the people here are great, so wise, just beautiful :) But yeah I come here a lot less. I read things without commenting because too many people come here just to fight other Democrats. It's sad, pathetic really, but that's how humans are.

[girl gone mad]

21. Progressives and liberals have been chased away.

This is what you get when you have a party and an administration so willing to pander to and embrace the right wing.

[Hekate]

23. Do you really need to insert that comment into this thread? It doesn't seem to relate to the OP's...

... point of view.

Hekate

[USArmyParatrooper]

30. There's never a bad time to work in an Obama jab

[depakid]

31. What is the OP's POV?

:shrug:

He doesn't say, so folks are left to guess.

My guess is that it doesn't have anything to do with firefighters, but only the OP can say for sure.

[Hekate]

37. What do you think it is?

[depakid]

50. No clue

I just have a feeling that it might be something other than a copycat post- though with hit 'n runs, it's impossible to tell.

[K8-EEE]

54. +1

[girl gone mad]

43. The OP is disgusted by the meanness on DU.

That relates directly to this party's shift to the right. The worst Bush policies have been continued. The right is perpetually pandered to while left wing critics are called retarded drug addicts. Liberal staff are fired without pause based on false rumors from FOX news, while openly crazy right wingers are given free reign over the future of Social Security. Any hint of concern over policy from the left is met with bitter ad hominem derision hurled in the most disrespectful manner possible.

It's no surprise that nastiness now rules. The fish rots from the head.

[Lost4words]

76. + 1 totally!! nt

[bvar22]

85. Nailed It!

:patriot:

[awoke_in_2003]

102. +1000. nt

[CakeGrrl]

147. WTF?

How do you correlate the responses to a thread about a man's house being allowed to burn to what you perceive to be a Bush-enabling Obama administration?

Do the responders you think are mean and nasty correlate to being Obama "cheerleaders"?

I'm not seeing the logic in that line of...reasoning.

Again, :wtf:

[Number23]

176. Please don't bother. She and the folks high fiving her are determined with a capital D

to blame this administration and its supporters for every single nasty thing that happens in this country until, well I guess until Obama leaves office.

They see nothing strange, unnecessary, or just plain crazy with connecting the meanness of people saying this man and his family deserved to have their house burned down to this President. That type of pathological dishonesty and irrational hatred should be ignored. Laughed at, at best.

[Bobbie Jo]

178. Nailed It!

+1000, etc....

[TorchTheWitch]

177. well said n/t

[Confusious]

203. Maybe we're pissed about the shift to the right

and it comes out in the posts, not the other way around?

[Number23]

60. Especially as it seems that many of the main ones demanding "sympathy" and "understanding" for their

causes and wearing the "liberal-er than thou" card most blatantly are the most unsympathetic to this man and his family.

[political_Dem]

63. + 1000000. Even to the point of hijacking the board.

That is very sad. :(

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Number23]

169. Having never been in a gang myself, I'm not sure what constitutes "gang colors" on DU

I'd love to be at a DU "Gang" meeting. I bet it's lovely.

[Spazito]

170. "Gang colors" ? The blue D? That's considered "gang colors"?

if not that then what, specifically are you referencing with "gang colors"?

[POAS]

173. Are you talking about your sig line?

Not sure of the significance other than a riff on the Iwo Jima flag raising photo in support of Gay rights (judging by the flag).

Do you consider that a gang color, I'd find that very odd and disrespectful.

[Hannah Bell]

192. No one is demanding sympathy or understanding, just an acknowledgement of basic material facts.

The city is smaller & poorer than the county.

The county won't fund fire service.

Its policy is to allow its 15,000 unincorporated residents to contract individually with cities -- or not.

The cities have no obligation to fight fires outside their service areas.

When, after decades of doing so for free, they started to get tough with the county, this is the policy the county came up with.

Blaming the cities for lack of "compassion" because they refuse to be bankrupted by free-riders who are richer than they are is ridiculous.

THE COUNTY SHOULD TAX ITS RESIDENTS & PROVIDE FIRE SERVICE FOR ALL.

But they've refused to multiple times.

Not the cities' problem.

[LWolf]

73. Not that the OP actually made a point, since he didn't reference his discontent. nt

[Radical Activist]

24. haha

I don't think it was Obama who chased liberals away from DU.
And I had no idea that embracing the right wing meant fighting for more regulation over every aspect of the economy and a more progressive tax structure. The right wing fights very hard against those things the last time I checked.

[USArmyParatrooper]

27. In other news Obama's approval among Liberal Democrats is 84%

http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/Presidential-Job-Approval-Center.aspx

[NanceGreggs]

28. Of course ...

The fact that certain people on this site are actually cheering the fact that a man's house burned to the ground, with his pets in it, is a direct result of "the party and the administration" pandering to the right wing.

Makes perfect sense.

:sarcasm:

[Confusious]

201. please give examples of "cheering"

I see it used a lot, without examples.

[Little Star]

205. Links???? Or should we just take your word for it?

[jobycom]

46. And would they do that to Randolph Scott?

I'm sayin'!

[K8-EEE]

53. LOL Obama's fault!

Well what isn't?

[KansasVoter]

68. LOL....dramatic much?

[sammythecat]

121. Cliche much?

That "much" thing's been old for quite awhile, but, go ahead anyway. Your chuckling dismissiveness is noted.

[Freddie Stubbs]

109. It used to be that everything was blamed on Bush/Cheney/Rove

Now everything is Obama's fault.

[leftstreet]

29. Maybe it's a reflection of the current state of the Democratic party?

The Democratic party CANNOT continue to choose its values from a vending machine

I'll take this one (this election season)

But not that one (we may lose gays on this)

Maybe this one here (how are we skewing with conservatives?)


We either support human rights and promote the common good FOR ALL, or we engage in the elitist class wars we claim to despise and just set fire to our own fucking houses!

Maybe some of the attitudes here are the 'product' of a party that waffles on issues like DADT, gay marriage, abortion etc.

It really needs to stop

[NanceGreggs]

35. What really needs to stop ...

... among other things, is taking every tragic event, every news item no matter how distanced from political position, every reaction expressed by anyone that is negative, mean-spirited, inhumane and totally lacking in compassion and laying it at the doorstep of the Dem party or this administration.

"I cheered the fire department that watched a man's house burn to the ground - but the Democrats made me do it!!!"

[leftstreet]

44. Some here are accustomed to arguing based on what's politically expedient

It's no surprise it would spill over into a news story

[Hannah Bell]

194. no one in the discussion of fire protection has discussed blaming democrats but *you*.

really gets old.

[Hekate]

195. Wrong

[Autumn]

159. Very good post.

Thank you.

[slackmaster]

33. I have no idea what you're talking about, DI, but I love you anyway.

:grouphug:

[jobycom]

34. Dude, this place is in perpetual suspended animation above the shark.

I think we're in geocentric orbit over the shark.

I completely agree with you. Things are ugly. I can't believe people believe some of the things they do. Unfuckingreal. I just wonder if you're one of the ones who believes the fucking unbelievably idiotic and heartless stuff, or if you agree with me on everything. :shrug:

[Hekate]

41. "Geocentric orbit over the shark"--Can I borrow that?

[jobycom]

45. Feel free, but if you make any money off it, I want it! nt

[awoke_in_2003]

104. CORPORATIST...

:rofl:

[dave29]

105. The shark has LaGrange points?

Jumping the shark just got a lot more interesting

[Hekate]

137. 'Tis a mighty shark.

[cherokeeprogressive]

56. If you are "ashamed to admit I post on DU", why do it?

I don't have much sympathy for people who continually do things that make them feel ashamed. I call that addiction, and I don't know of any addiction that cannot be overcome.

It's a fucking message board, and nothing posted here is either going to save the world or win/lose elections.

We're 165,000 strong. Remember that in that number are TENS of thousands that have posted here once or twice and TENS of thousands more that don't even post in the political forums.

Hundreds of millions of people in this country have never heard of us and nearly that many couldn't care less what's discussed here.

As someone who rides zip lines for a living (semi-retired and doing it part time) I think jumping a shark on a pair of skis would be pretty cool.

[Drunken Irishman]

57. You're right. I'll probably phase myself out because of that.

I'm not asking for your sympathy. I don't need anyone's sympathy. It's mostly out of habit. But certainly the posts tonight suggest this place has officially lost its mind.

So you're right. I'll start breaking that habit. I don't believe it'll be easy, but it's something that should be done. I see no valuable asset anymore with this forum. It's like those pesky trash magazines at the checkout line. I'm embarrassed to read 'em, but sometimes you've got to take a peek, if only secretly.

[cherokeeprogressive]

61. I don't care if you post here or not, and I'm sure the feeling is mutual. I'm okay with that.

Just don't ascribe more importance to this type of message board than it actually deserves. Few of us would be here if we weren't "out there" in the context of some of our opinions, and that's what makes this place so readable. We don't march in lockstep even though we're on the same page 90% of the time.

Don't get me wrong. I read your posts because I find them interesting. Some I agree with, and some I don't. But I can see the house burning argument from both sides.

Here's what I believe: No one who posts here honestly could sit in the cab of a perfectly functional fire truck and not attempt to put out the fire. That part is simple. None of US would have done that. Those guys who did obviously weren't acting out of judgement borne of their own beliefs, but of instructions or policies that were dictated to them.

I'm absolutely certain that those HONEST people who post on DU would have put out the fire, or attempted to, even though they have differing beliefs about how it should be paid for.

Differing opinions do not equal shark jumping.

Peace.

[H2O Man]

66. It's a strange DU phase.

There seem to be quite a few strange phases in recent years. Obviously, we can't "go back" to the good old days .....and there definitely were much better times here in the old days. Still, I hope that you will continue to be an active participant on this forum. Ignore the nonsense; stick together with the good people here.

[DailyGrind51]

64. You can't start a thread like this without some explanation of what happened!

[Vickers]

65. Unrec for being vague and overly dramatic. n/t

[independent_voter]

82. +1

i might well agree with him, had he given me the courtesy of telling me what he's talking about

does he really expect me to go looking?

[VMI Dem]

67. So, the gay bashing and attacks on the left didn't do it?

:shrug:

[SammyWinstonJack]

81. +1

:thumbsup:

[CBR]

125. Yeah, what got me was the lack of people admitting there was white privilege. WTF??? nt

[KansasVoter]

69. -1 for being a drama queen! Jesus people whine a lot!

[Canuckistanian]

72. Uh-huh. n/t

[Lost4words]

77. 2 great examples above

[LWolf]

71. Then why are you posting? nt

[NoPasaran]

75. Three years here and this is the FIRST time you're truly disgusted?

:spray:

[Forkboy]

78. The funny part to me is...

...most of the people defending this Libertarian "survival of the fittest" mentality would last two seconds if ever put to the test on it.

[tblue37]

213. I didn't see people defending the "Libertarian survival of the fittest"

mentality. What I saw was people criticizing the way so many who do believe in that Libertarian mentality only want it applied to what other people need. They want to be all Libertarian and not be taxed for government services or public services, but when they need some sort of service, they feel that help should be forthcoming, even though all along they have refused to pay taxes or fees to support that sort of public service.

I am horrified that pets died in the fire. I am passionate about the well-being of animals, and in fact like animals betetr than I like most people.

But the people on DU who criticized the house owner were mostly criticizing HIS Libertarian attitude, or the Libertarian attitude of the council that the voters had put into place who apparently satisfied the voters' demands by refusing to pass a slight tax to help cover the costs of handling fires in the rural district.

I am amazed at how ready people are to confuse criticism of Libertarianism with Libertarianism, when in fact they are the exact opposite of each other.

[ecstatic]

80. What happened last night? nt

[lunatica]

83. Why don't you state what you're disgusted about?

I usually pay attention to what you post, but this time you're just being obtuse. It's disappointing that you don't just state it.

[leeroysphitz]

84. This fire department thing very nearly rivals the Cheese sandwich wars of a couple years ago. n/t

[blindpig]

86. Libertarianism is high in the saddle.

It ain't just for Republicans anymore. Truth is, never was.

The fish rots from the head. The wholesale privatization of education, the military, health care, Gulf spill mitigation, NASA are of a piece with this.

The ideas of the ruling class are in every epoch the ruling ideas, i.e., the class which is the ruling material force of society, is at the same time its ruling intellectual force.
Karl Marx

[Dappleganger]

92. ^^^^^^THIS is what's wrong.

You nailed it more accurately than anyone else.

[robdogbucky]

124. But wait, aren't you

Obama bashing with those comments?

You must be. All criticism is Obama bashing isn't it?


:sarcasm: symbol goes here.



The real deal

[blindpig]

127. It is Capitalism bashing.

I expect that will be verboten before too long.

[Hannah Bell]

193. The "blame the city" meme is an attack on public services. It's no accident

that this story is getting lots of media play & both the "left" and "right" wings of the media are distorting the facts to create a phony strategy of tension.

[snooper2]

88. Anybody want to look at some bunnies?

[TwilightGardener]

99. +1000 for the bunnies.

[awoke_in_2003]

106. I prefer my bunnies...

with pancakes on their head :)

[closeupready]

154. Was just gonna add, "where's the pancake?"

:rofl:

[awoke_in_2003]

188. I couldn't take it anymore...

that is better

[leeroysphitz]

110. bunnies rock.

[phasma ex machina]

187. .

[bvar22]

89. The meanness at DU has increased in direct proportion...

...to the Rightward Drift and the increased demand for GroupThink.
.
.
.
Coincidence?

[HughMoran]

98. Look at the actual people being mean and supporting watching the house burn

Self-proclaimed truth-telling progressives and socialists.

Your theory is full of holes. Seriously - I can PM you links if you need.

[bvar22]

100. Be careful about your generalization.

I AM a long term DU member, and a practicing "Self-proclaimed truth-telling progressives and socialists".
My wife & I are also active Volunteer Rural FireFighters.

The thought of letting a house burn is abhorrent to us, and to every other FireFighter on our department.
We kill fires.
We do NOT let them burn.

We feel the same way about Health Care:
Everyone deserves it...a basic Human Right,
NOT a For Profit commodity.

[HughMoran]

108. I meant to edit in the word "some"

I didn't mean to generalize to "all" - that was an oversight.

[K8-EEE]

112. Thank you !

For your post and for volunteering.

[Bobbie Jo]

103. Exactly.

The sore thumb analogy comes to mind.

Disgusting.

[Name removed]

113. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

115. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

134. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DevonRex]

142. Once again you've insulted every straight poster on DU. nt

[Mimosa]

150. BlueNorthwest, I'm NOT straight and I disagree with your jab at straights

That's one of the dumber comments I've read on this topic.

[Hekate]

140. "I'll also say that to be surprised by these posts, you have to be straight. Meditate on that" ?!?!

Really. You don't say. Seriously.

:spray:

I'd meditate but I'm too busy wiping down my screen.

Hekate

[DevonRex]

143. Seriously. He just tried to frame every straight poster here as stupid and insensitive. nt

[DevonRex]

141. You just painted every straight poster here with an insulting, broad brush. nt

[stranger81]

126. Absolulely correct. I think my ignore list more than tripled last night. [n/t]

[bigwillq]

93. Then we won't see you posting again here, right?

:shrug:

[TK421]

96. This morning was the last straw for me...I still can't believe what I read on here

[Gaedel]

97. Because there are several arguments going on at the same time

1. Should the fire department have put out the fire anyway for the "libertarian free loader"?

2. Why should the "libertarian free loaders" in the county not have a county fire department or paid the city tax money for fire protection?

3. Why should one locality tax themselves to subsidize an adjacent locality who refuses to tax themselves?


A lot of people are arguing 2 and 3 rather than the humanitarian aspects of 1.

[TexasObserver]

107. I don't "do" group think. I hold each person responsible for their posts.

If someone is posting gibberish, that's them, not DU.

[K8-EEE]

111. Thank you don't yell at everyone for a few people

I'm seeing on these threads like 20 compassionate people arguing with one asshole, and then we all get put in the asshole category?

[mstinamotorcity]

114. You may be disappointed

but there are people who are living his nightmare everyday. And they are not in rural Tennessee. There are many instances where people have had to watch their houses burn down right along with the fire department because of lack of resources and equipment. And yes it goes for police and emergency medical services also. People die right before your very eyes. And the truth of it is that most of these things happen because of a lack of funding or tax base. Can you say Limited Government,Cut spending,Lower Taxes??? All repug propaganda.

[stuntcat]

146. damn

I wonder how bad things could get before the Holy Repubs care for fellow humanity.

[mstinamotorcity]

152. I am not trying to be

heartless.But most of the hurtful things that happen in our lives usually fall right at the feet of repugs. The ultimate goal is to take and conceal all the money they can to protect their generational loot legacy. While depriving this generation and that of future generations the opportunity to achieve the so-called American Dream. How bad does it have to get before repugs will care for their fellow humanity? Lets See.

They want to privatize social security,get rid of unions,look at minimum wage (they believe its too much or don't know the current wage),unemployment is believed to be unconstitutional (even though you pay into it),they want to cut medicare,want to try and repeal the Affordable Care Act (health care Reform),Cut Government Spending ( which is usually anything that goes to the public sector),Give a tax cut to the top 2% (who have made billions of dollars in profits over forty years),they have wanted at various times to have secession from the union,demeaned our President with colorful terms such as socialist,marxist, and nazis ( when the former President Dubya exhibited more of those traits),Claim the Tea Baggers are a fringe group (when really they are the repugs with their southern strategy),opposes DADT,opposes same-sex marriages,make up immigration laws as they go (so they can have a bigger prison and charge it to the Govt),and they lie,lie,and lie again.

You ask how bad? seems to be pretty bad right now. vote in November so they don't get worse.

[DevonRex]

116. That thread shocked me. Who the hell can be in favor of letting the house burn and animals die? nt

[seabeyond]

149. no one. see how easy that is. who can be in favor of 50% of county opt out of paying

for service yet expect to receive service off the backs of other local tax payers from another state because they feel fire dept is socialists?

[frogmarch]

119. I hope the DU administrators

will enact a no libertarians policy.

I too am appalled at the burn-baby-burn attitude expressed by some at DU.

[ismnotwasm]

120. I think I found the thread you are referencing

If it's the one about fires. And like most flame wars, it involved fewer people than the responses indicate. You're right, it was quite disgusting and disturbing. That being said, I've been more disgusting by things like rape apologists, ones who thing FGM is a cultural 'right', and defenders of racism, or hetero-sexism or homophobia. All of which have had spectacular flame wars.

A libertarian-type argument about whether a house should be allowed burn down based on a fee paid is right up there though.

[CBR]

128. People are sick fucks. nt

[Hannah Bell]

135. ...

[EmeraldCityGrl]

136. And I hate posts like this that expect

me to be a fucking mind reader to understand WTF the problem is.

[Kat45]

138. +1 n/t

[donheld]

151. Agreed I have no idea what they are referring to.

[Count Olaf]

148. Does the corporate media really care about this? Why do we even know about this story??

It seems to me that certain people are trying to cause Americans to be at each other's throats, constantly fighting over the most stupid ass wedge issues, infuriating stories etc. you can imagine...because, well they don't want us to turn our energies toward getting rid of the real evil ruling over all of our lives.

Sum 41 sums it up...

March of the dogs to beat of disillusion
Sworn under god, breeding panic and confusion.
The white flag is down, send in the clowns
The carnival of sins is now about to begin.

It may be I'm a pessimist
But I'd say we need an exorcist
The root of all evil standing tall
Under God and above us all.

And here we go again in desperation
And all we know is confusion and frustration now
As tension grows no vision of salvation
It's too late, there's no time.

[Hannah Bell]

189. apparently,because it's getting lots of play & being spun in favor of the homeowner who wants free

fire service & against the nasty publicly funded city fire dept.

[Pithlet]

196. And they've done such a masterful job of it that it seems a majority of DU even

has bought it hook line and sinker.

[Hannah Bell]

207. and you have to ask yourself why -- why this is hot in the media, why this spin.

[lpbk2713]

153. I just love ambiguity.

It's so ....... ambiguous.


:eyes:

[Hekate]

155. ambidexterous

[Hekate]

156. ambivalent

[eggman67]

157. It's not like this argument hasn't happened here before

Bibaldo Rueda, Feb 2006, Monett, MO. http://articles.latimes.com/2006/feb/17/nation/na-nofeefire17

The archives seem to be temporarily unavailable, but all of the exact same arguments took place here then.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

160. Disgusting. Not only about letting fires burn.

Prejudice against fat people, and the holier-than-thous who want everybody else to use public transit, stop eating meat, ride bicycles and give up the car, never shop at Wally World, and never buy anything in a plastic bag.

That is a luxury of for those in high-density cities with good mass transit systems. San Francisco, New York, Boston, Chicago. Those are all thousands of miles from a lot of us. Many of us don't have those choices. A friend of mine calls those people "goddamn hippie vegans". :rofl:

[DCBob]

161. I didnt see or read it but why blame DU?

How does a few kooky posters make DU bad??

[HughMoran]

163. " I didnt see or read it "

You really had to experience it.

[DCBob]

166. maybe better I dont.

[Rex]

165. If you don't tell us what you are talking about, then your post is meaningless

to the majority that surf all the other forums. Just sayin...

[ZombieHorde]

167. The pro-house/pet burning folk seem to be in the minority.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9260130

[RagAss]

168. Brilliant !!! Three hunderd DUers on the Defensive !

[cyr330]

171. Admittedly there are some assholes.

But aren't there assholes everywhere? I don't always agree with everybody here, but at least I can say what I think for the most part. If it had to do with the gentleman whose house burned down with his pets, that was really awful, and I would hate to think anybody would find it cute or funny. Nonetheless, most people here are genuinely progressive. Please don't let the actions of a few taint your opinion of everybody.

[lukasahero]

172. Honestly

there are about 12 names on this thread that I recognize - and almost all are posting in support of your post.

I can go weeks now without checking in on DU now never mind posting. I assume the day will come, like little Jackie Paper that I will visit here no more. That makes me very sad.

[activa8tr]

175. This tread should be shut down, there is no "THERE" there! No..

subject, so everybody is projecting their own onto this.

Let's ask the OP to either clarify this thread topic with some SUBSTANCE within, say, two hours... or have it be shut down.

Simple request. OP's if you can't state what the heck you are talking about, maybe you should be an OP!!!

[Odin2005]

180. I believe he is talking about the fire department travasty.

And the posters defending letting the house burn.

[Odin2005]

179. IMO all the people who are OK with letting the house burn sould be TSed.

[Canuckistanian]

182. You got that right

I'm a hair's breadth from quitting right now.

I'm fucking ASTOUNDED at SOME DUer's attitudes - the total capitulation to authority, to fascist ideas and the utter weak-kneed COWARDICE that EXCUSES such behaviour.

In a word, I'm pissed.

[EFerrari]

183. Please don't do that.

:(

[LAGC]

186. Whenever things get really heated on here, sometimes its wise to just take a break.

Take a week off, let it blow over.

Don't let a disagreement on one small issue alienate you from the 90% of issues that we all agree on.

[Hannah Bell]

202. me too. what with democrats supporting school deform, union-busting, & now

calling providers of publicly-funded services "heartless libertarians" because they declined to provide them for free to a county-full of anti-tax who have repeatedly declined to contribute to fund the services, i'm wondering who these "democrats" really are & who they really represent.

[Zorra]

204. Look at it as a learning experience.

The posters that disgusted you have a warped, politically conservative-type value system. Maybe they are fans of Beck and Limbaugh.

Maybe some of them are visitors from the "dark side", having their own special little kind of wannabe nazi fun.

Anyway, now you know who they are, and where they are coming from. They're definitely not bleeding heart liberals.

They are in the extreme minority here, and are certainly not any type of valid representation of DU.

If you let them get to you, they win.

[polmaven]

206. Are we gonna hafta wait

until you sober up to find out what thread did this to you? I mean it may be a long wait. You've been Drunk(en)Irishman for 40 months now.....!

[peacebaby3]

208. I don't come here much anymore and rarely ever post. I used to love this place. It was a refuge

but I've noticed a change over the years. I'm appalled by those that think it's OK that firefighters stood by while helpless animals burned to death and didn't attempt to save a person's house. It's called being human. The tea-bagger mentality is everywhere it seems.

[pacalo]

209. I would miss you, Drunken Irishman!

But I hear you. :)

I hope those who don't share the same ideals as Democrats will look for other boards that will embrace their hard ways of thinking.

They seem to gravitate toward every TN fire thread for the sake of posting snark & know-it-all arrogance.

But please don't go.

[grahamhgreen]

210. “Every man must decide whether he will walk in the light of creative altruism or in the darkness of

“Every man must decide whether he will walk in the light of creative altruism or in the darkness of destructive selfishness.” – Martin Luther King, Jr.

[yurbud]

211. are you going to post what bothered you or not?

[Ramulux]

212. How do I miss this stuff?

I visit this site very regularly, and I dont see a lot of the stuff that people are complaining about. It seems like there is always someone complaining about how this place has jumped the shark, and then time goes on and everything seems the same, and then someone will get pissed about something else and start a new controversy.

I would say there are only two groups of people on this site that piss me off, the assholes who just start shit for no reason, and the weird gun-nuts over in the gun sub-forum, luckily both these groups are a small minority and its fairly easy to ignore them. Maybe I have just been to so many forums where the douche bags are the majority that this place seems awesome compared to every other forum I have been too. Either way, everyone should take comfort in the fact that this is probably the largest progressive online forum and its pretty damn good if you simply ignore the small amount of bullshit.

[Touchdown]

214. I like raisins.

:)

[sohndrsmith]

215. I'm sorry Drunken Irishman... you've been a constant for me here....

though I take long sabbaticals every so often, and not a recognizable (ha! laughable) or significant (more laughable) contributor, I am comforted by those who seem to be the foundation here - the names I always see and feel a sense of belonging for the familial sense of regulars I respect and enjoy reading and replying to. Even when we disagree (and if I recall, we've disagreed on something - but I can't prove it). : )

I guess I'm still something of an outsider because when I see the interpersonal uglies - I leave for a while or just jump to other threads.

I hope you don't leave. Maybe a break is a good idea, but please do come back...

okay... take care.

s

EDIT: Just scanned through the responses you've received. Wow. The hostility is palpable. That we're all more stressed or anxious is unremarkable. That we choose to be adversarial for the sake of being adversarial (which seems to be the case often enough) is the very thing which (I would think) most of us are fighting against - at least politically.

Hey, its up to every one of us whether we want to destroy DU deliberately or not - blaming it on not getting our way, or personal, even political angst... while that which we truly disagree with sits back with a sick, slimy grin, enjoying the show of our self-destruction, saving them the effort.

I thought the spirit of greater good would override small scrimmages, and I still believe it.

Do we want to acknowledge that we HAVE met the enemy, and he is, actually and in fact, US?

We're better than that... we can regroup, can't we?

I don't know... I hate fighting. I've been a target of conflict so long - and it's tiring. And destructive. Disagree, debate, cool. Attack, personalized berating, cement-head solidity that "this" or "that" is wrong, period - corrosive without ability to argue, even find alternate views now and then....

I guess the sabbatical approach is the healthiest - for now. Hope things get better.... I don't want to see those who (I see as, anyway) the foundation of DU leave in disgust. If they do, I guess there truly is a problem....

I remain optimistic...

[B Calm]

216. Drink a lot do you?