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Jazz Great John Legend says it better than I could - schools.

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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-05-10 11:07 PM
Original message
Jazz Great John Legend says it better than I could - schools.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-legend/wake-up-we-know-how-to-fi_b_748608.html

We know how to fix our schools. We just need to DO it. "Waiting for 'Superman' " highlights some schools that are working against all odds.

Although the successful schools featured in the movie are charter schools, they were not highlighted to say that charter schools are the only answer. No one is proposing that every public school should become a charter school. But we'd be crazy not to try to replicate the conditions that make great charter schools work. What charter schools have created is the opportunity to experiment -- free of traditional bureaucracy -- and figure out what works.

......

Let me be clear: we cannot turn our backs on failing public schools and just hope they will be taken over by high performing charter school organizations -- this would require time and money we don't have. Charter schools are not the only solution -- but the strategies that have been proven in charter schools are the solution -- solutions that can be replicated in all schools using existing funds. Let's not allow the contrived charter versus public school argument distract us from providing quality schools for all children.

At the end of the day, it's the kids that matter. Every kid deserves a school where teachers, administrators, parents and community members look at them in the eye regardless of where they live or what they look like and say, "You are valuable. You are the future of America. We expect great things from you and we will make sure you get the education you need to succeed in life." We are responsible for our nation's students now and we know what needs to be done.


This is why I support Charter Schools - not because I want to see schools privatized, not because I'm anti-union, not because I want to see charter schools replace Public Schools - but because, as Mr. Legend said, they give us the the "opportunity to experiment -- free of traditional bureaucracy -- and figure out what works." Once we learn those lessons of "what works", we can apply them to Public Schools.

As for the movie, I haven't seen it so I can't comment on it directly.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-05-10 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. K&R and the counter stayed at '0.'
Even public education is fair-game for the lowest of the low.
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-05-10 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Apparently, some people care more about protecting their memes
than actually improving Public Schools and helping kids learn.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-05-10 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Time's running out for another generation.
I'm 53 and remember when Michigan had the best in public schools. Same for affordable public colleges and universities.

Now, practically the only districts doing well are those in the upper- and upper-middle class suburbs. That's where the students come from homes where the parents stress the importance of education, the houses are filled with books, and kids love to read.

Almost all the urban districts are cash-strapped. Teachers have to spring for basic supplies, in addition to serving as social workers, child psychologists, remedial tutors and a score more jobs secondary to teaching.

Crummy schools only serve the oligarchs, plutocrats and kleptocrats at the top of the scrap heap that once was our civilization.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-05-10 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Well, don't worry.
The new "reformers" will save us all.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-05-10 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
2. Oh, yes.
Let's turn all the public schools into charters, give them the taxpayer money they crave.....and let them experiment.

Yes, that's it. That's what we should do. Let people like Gates, Broad, Skillman, Zuckerberg, Rhee, Moskowitz....take over and do what they want.

Indeed, that is what we should do. Just toss all the educational research out the window. Just forget that charters are faring no better than public schools.

Just go ahead and turn them all into charters.

And pray to God there is some room somewhere for the kids who don't score high on tests. I doubt there will be.
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-05-10 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Did you read either the quote or my statements?
Both John Legend and I SPECIFICALLY said that we do NOT support turning "all the public schools into charter schools".

Perhaps you should read it again.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-05-10 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. I said perhaps we should.
Then they could stop all the talk about how sorry teachers are, how bad public schools are...and just let the management companies get the money to do as they wish.

It surely would save a lot of hassle.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-05-10 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. What public schools need are resources: Authority. Money. People. Ideas.
In Detroit, we have one public school that specializes in the performing arts. It has a near 100-percent graduation rate. The other schools in the system, it's about 25-percent. "They don't have the money" to put what works across the board.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-05-10 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Why don't they have the money? Do you know where it is going?
I do, I have written about Bobb a lot. Of course they don't have the money, because public school money is being diverted to charters and vouchers.
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demmiblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-05-10 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. You are wasting your time...
some people don't understand, and will never understand.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. People understood it when Bush was doing it. Now they accept it.
Because our party is bringing Bush's agenda to fruition.
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Johonny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. well our party invented it
A lot of the testing and accountability ideas came out of Al Gore's ideas for education reform. Now how society used that information is not at all what I think Al wanted to used that information. Instead the conservatives figured out you could use it to attack the teachers union and create for profit education the countries norm.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Agreed. The original idea for charters, like Al Shanker's, were thoughtful.
Unfortunately when a corporatist like Arne is given free rein, public education and teachers suffer from the backlash.

So much harm has been done to the teachers now that I am not sure there will be a going back to a time when they trusted our party. The anger is great. You can not treat educated professionals in a condescending and insulting manner and expect them to be there when you need them.
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Touché
You said it better than I could.
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demmiblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #11
20. True, however, I think that some of the people complaining NEVER understood what is really at stake.
It is really easy for some to compare the success stories that occur in Detroit because it is pretty much a homogeneous population. See, look! What they don't see is that class divisions exist there, as well. The very children that need the most help are the children that are at the bottom of the food chain. Families that can't afford to transport their child to a school outside of their district, the family that cannot get to 'mandatory' meetings, etc. are simply unwelcome at alternative/charter schools (don't even get me started about children who need special services... there WILL be a reason to get rid of them). Gee, let's create a system that discriminates against the least among us.

Strengthen Public Schools! This is the cornerstone of what is good and right in terms of educating future generations.

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #10
22. Please don't speak for me as I welcome new knowledge and treasure public education.
My sister is an educator, 24 years in the MEA. My grandfather, grandmother on the other side, and aunt, as well.

While I am not in a union, I teach, part-time, at a private school.

Regarding the problems of public education: We need, as I stated on this thread, to give public educators all the resources in the armamentarium: Authority, Money, People, Ideas.

Our nation stopped making public education a top priority when the War Party took total and open control of the government, military, economy and national pysche. I trace that to November 22, 1963.

Here's what JFK was going to say in Dallas that day:



THE UNSPOKEN SPEECH: TEXT

Remarks prepared for delivery at the Dallas Trade Mart
by President John F. Kennedy, November 22, 1963


I am honored to have this invitation to address the annual meeting of the Dallas Citizens Council, joined by the members of the Dallas Assembly -- and pleased to have this opportunity to salute the Graduate Research Center of the Southwest.

It is fitting that these two symbols of Dallas progress are united in the sponsorship of this meeting. For they represent the best qualities, I am told, of leadership and learning in this city -- and leadership and learning are indispensable to each other. The advancement of learning depends on community leadership for financial and political support and the products of that learning, in turn, are essential to the leadership's hopes for continued progress and prosperity. It is not a coincidence that those communities possessing the best in research and graduate facilities -- from MIT to Cal Tech -- tend to attract the new and growing industries. I congratulate those of you here in Dallas who have recognized these basic facts through the creation of the unique and forward-looking Graduate Research Center.

This link between leadership and learning is not only essential at the community level. It is even more indispensable in world affairs. Ignorance and misinformation can handicap the progress of a city or a company, but they can, if allowed to prevail in foreign policy, handicap this country's security. In a world of complex and continuing problems, in a world full of frustrations and irritations, America's leadership must be guided by the lights of learning and reason or else those who confuse rhetoric with reality and the plausible with the possible will gain the popular ascendancy with their seemingly swift and simple solutions to every world problem.

There will always be dissident voices heard in the land, expressing opposition without alternatives, finding fault but never favor, perceiving gloom on every side and seeking influence without responsibility. Those voices are inevitable.

But today other voices are heard in the land -- voices preaching doctrines wholly unrelated to reality, wholly unsuited to the sixties, doctrines which apparently assume that words will suffice without weapons, that vituperation is as good as victory and that peace is a sign of weakness. At a time when the national debt is steadily being reduced in terms of its burden on our economy, they see that debt as the greatest single threat to our security. At a time when we are steadily reducing the number of Federal employees serving every thousand citizens, they fear those supposed hordes of civil servants far more than the actual hordes of opposing armies.

We cannot expect that everyone, to use the phrase of a decade ago, will "talk sense to the American people." But we can hope that fewer people will listen to nonsense. And the notion that this Nation is headed for defeat through deficit, or that strength is but a matter of slogans, is nothing but just plain nonsense.

I want to discuss with you today the status of our strength and our security because this question clearly calls for the most responsible qualities of leadership and the most enlightened products of scholarship. For this Nation's strength and security are not easily or cheaply obtained, nor are they quickly and simply explained. There are many kinds of strength and no one kind will suffice. Overwhelming nuclear strength cannot stop a guerrilla war. Formal pacts of alliance cannot stop internal subversion. Displays of material wealth cannot stop the disillusionment of diplomats subjected to discrimination.

Above all, words alone are not enough. The United States is a peaceful nation. And where our strength and determination are clear, our words need merely to convey conviction, not belligerence. If we are strong, our strength will speak for itself. If we are weak, words will be of no help.

I realize that this Nation often tends to identify turning-points in world affairs with the major addresses which preceded them. But it was not the Monroe Doctrine that kept all Europe away from this hemisphere -- it was the strength of the British fleet and the width of the Atlantic Ocean. It was not General Marshall's speech at Harvard which kept communism out of Western Europe -- it was the strength and stability made possible by our military and economic assistance.

In this administration also it has been necessary at times to issue specific warnings -- warnings that we could not stand by and watch the Communists conquer Laos by force, or intervene in the Congo, or swallow West Berlin, or maintain offensive missiles on Cuba. But while our goals were at least temporarily obtained in these and other instances, our successful defense of freedom was due not to the words we used, but to the strength we stood ready to use on behalf of the principles we stand ready to defend.

This strength is composed of many different elements, ranging from the most massive deterrents to the most subtle influences. And all types of strength are needed -- no one kind could do the job alone. Let us take a moment, therefore, to review this Nation's progress in each major area of strength.

I.

First, as Secretary McNamara made clear in his address last Monday, the strategic nuclear power of the United States has been so greatly modernized and expanded in the last 1,000 days, by the rapid production and deployment of the most modern missile systems, that any and all potential aggressors are clearly confronted now with the impossibility of strategic victory -- and the certainty of total destruction -- if by reckless attack they should ever force upon us the necessity of a strategic reply.

In less than 3 years, we have increased by 50 percent the number of Polaris submarines scheduled to be in force by the next fiscal year, increased by more than 70 percent our total Polaris purchase program, increased by more than 75 percent our Minuteman purchase program, increased by 50 percent the portion of our strategic bombers on 15-minute alert, and increased by too percent the total number of nuclear weapons available in our strategic alert forces. Our security is further enhanced by the steps we have taken regarding these weapons to improve the speed and certainty of their response, their readiness at all times to respond, their ability to survive an attack, and their ability to be carefully controlled and directed through secure command operations.

II.

But the lessons of the last decade have taught us that freedom cannot be defended by strategic nuclear power alone. We have, therefore, in the last 3 years accelerated the development and deployment of tactical nuclear weapons, and increased by 60 percent the tactical nuclear forces deployed in Western Europe.

Nor can Europe or any other continent rely on nuclear forces alone, whether they are strategic or tactical. We have radically improved the readiness of our conventional forces -- increased by 45 percent the number of combat ready Army divisions, increased by 100 percent the procurement of modern Army weapons and equipment, increased by 100 percent our ship construction, conversion, and modernization program, increased by 100 percent our procurement of tactical aircraft, increased by 30 percent the number of tactical air squadrons, and increased the strength of the Marines. As last month's "Operation Big Lift" -- which originated here in Texas -- showed so clearly, this Nation is prepared as never before to move substantial numbers of men in surprisingly little time to advanced positions anywhere in the world. We have increased by 175 percent the procurement of airlift aircraft, and we have already achieved a 75 percent increase in our existing strategic airlift capability. Finally, moving beyond the traditional roles of our military forces, we have achieved an increase of nearly 600 percent in our special forces -- those forces that are prepared to work with our allies and friends against the guerrillas, saboteurs, insurgents and assassins who threaten freedom in a less direct but equally dangerous manner.

III.

But American military might should not and need not stand alone against the ambitions of international communism. Our security and strength, in the last analysis, directly depend on the security and strength of others, and that is why our military and economic assistance plays such a key role in enabling those who live on the periphery of the Communist world to maintain their independence of choice. Our assistance to these nations can be painful, risky and costly, as is true in Southeast Asia today. But we dare not weary of the task. For our assistance makes possible the stationing of 3-5 million allied troops along the Communist frontier at one-tenth the cost of maintaining a comparable number of American soldiers. A successful Communist breakthrough in these areas, necessitating direct United States intervention, would cost us several times as much as our entire foreign aid program, and might cost us heavily in American lives as well.

About 70 percent of our military assistance goes to nine key countries located on or near the borders of the Communist bloc -- nine countries confronted directly or indirectly with the threat of Communist aggression -- Viet-Nam, Free China, Korea, India, Pakistan, Thailand, Greece, Turkey, and Iran. No one of these countries possesses on its own the resources to maintain the forces which our own Chiefs of Staff think needed in the common interest. Reducing our efforts to train, equip, and assist their armies can only encourage Communist penetration and require in time the increased overseas deployment of American combat forces. And reducing the economic help needed to bolster these nations that undertake to help defend freedom can have the same disastrous result. In short, the $50 billion we spend each year on our own defense could well be ineffective without the $4 billion required for military and economic assistance.

Our foreign aid program is not growing in size, it is, on the contrary, smaller now than in previous years. It has had its weaknesses, but we have undertaken to correct them. And the proper way of treating weaknesses is to replace them with strength, not to increase those weaknesses by emasculating essential programs. Dollar for dollar, in or out of government, there is no better form of investment in our national security than our much-abused foreign aid program. We cannot afford to lose it. We can afford to maintain it. We can surely afford, for example, to do as much for our 19 needy neighbors of Latin America as the Communist bloc is sending to the island of Cuba alone.

IV.

I have spoken of strength largely in terms of the deterrence and resistance of aggression and attack. But, in today's world, freedom can be lost without a shot being fired, by ballots as well as bullets. The success of our leadership is dependent upon respect for our mission in the world as well as our missiles -- on a clearer recognition of the virtues of freedom as well as the evils of tyranny.

That is why our Information Agency has doubled the shortwave broadcasting power of the Voice of America and increased the number of broadcasting hours by 30 percent, increased Spanish language broadcasting to Cuba and Latin America from I to 9 hours a day, increased seven-fold to more than 3-5 million copies the number of American books being translated and published for Latin American readers, and taken a host of other steps to carry our message of truth and freedom to all the far corners of the earth.

And that is also why we have regained the initiative in the exploration of outer space, making an annual effort greater than the combined total of all space activities undertaken during the fifties, launching more than 130 vehicles into earth orbit, putting into actual operation valuable weather and communications satellites, and making it clear to all that the United States of America has no intention of finishing second in space.

This effort is expensive -- but it pays its own way, for freedom and for America. For there is no longer any fear in the free world that a Communist lead in space will become a permanent assertion of supremacy and the basis of military superiority. There is no longer any doubt about the strength and skill of American science, American industry, American education, and the American free enterprise system. In short, our national space effort represents a great gain in, and a great resource of, our national strength -- and both Texas and Texans are contributing greatly to this strength.

Finally, it should be clear by now that a nation can be no stronger abroad than she is at home. Only an America which practices what it preaches about equal rights and social justice will be respected by those whose choice affects our future. Only an America which has fully educated its citizens is fully capable of tackling the complex problems and perceiving the hidden dangers of the world in which we live. And only an America which is growing and prospering economically can sustain the worldwide defenses of freedom, while demonstrating to all concerned the opportunities of our system and society.

It is clear, therefore, that we are strengthening our security as well as our economy by our recent record increases in national income and output -- by surging ahead of most of Western Europe in the rate of business expansion and the margin of corporate profits, by maintaining a more stable level of prices than almost any of our overseas competitors, and by cutting personal and corporate income taxes by some $11 billion, as I have proposed, to assure this Nation of the longest and strongest expansion in our peacetime economic history.

This Nation's total output -- which 3 years ago was at the $500 billion mark -- will soon pass $600 billion, for a record rise of over $100 billion in 3 years. For the first time in history we have 70 million men and women at work. For the first time in history average factory earnings have exceeded $100 a week. For the first time in history corporation profits after taxes -- which have risen 43 percent in less than 3 years -- have an annual level of $27.4 billion.

My friends and fellow citizens: I cite these facts and figures to make it clear that America today is stronger than ever before. Our adversaries have not abandoned their ambitions, our dangers have not diminished, our vigilance cannot be relaxed. But now we have the military, the scientific, and the economic strength to do whatever must be done for the preservation and promotion of freedom.

That strength will never be used in pursuit of aggressive ambitions -- it will always be used in pursuit of peace. It will never be used to promote provocations -- it will always be used to promote the peaceful settlement of disputes.

We in this country, in this generation, are -- by destiny rather than choice -- the watchmen on the walls of world freedom. We ask, therefore, that we may be worthy of our power and responsibility, that we may exercise our strength with wisdom and restraint, and that we may achieve in our time and for all time the ancient vision of "peace on earth, good will toward men." That must always be our goal, and the righteousness of our cause must always underlie our strength. For as was written long ago: "except the Lord keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain."

Courtesy of the John Fitzgerald Kennedy Library, Boston, Massachusetts

SOURCE: http://smu.edu/smunews/jfk/speechtext.asp



Public Education is the cornerstone of modern civilization.
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
31. Yes, some people will never understand. Because they choose
to see what they wish to see. Because they focus on a few failed examples and ignore the majority of successes. Yes, even though the glass is 3/4 full the 1/4 empty means we should just dump the whole glass.
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Catshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Only 17% of charters "test better" than public schools.
That's a majority of success? News to me.
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csziggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
12. If public schools are freed from regimentation they could experiment, too
Why do we only allow charter schools to do it? They are still using public money to play their games - everything from preempting buildings designated for public school use to paying exorbitant rents to themselves and getting bailed out of the "debts" they owe themselves by even more public money.

Back in the 1970s my sister worked at a public school in a very poor district where students had been failing. They got a federal grant to try out new educational ideas. While there were not drastic improvements in the grade levels, there were improvements. Then the federal program was ended, the school was put back into the regular system and had to follow the same regimentation as all the other schools. Grade levels dropped again.

The thing about it was that the federal funds were not really needed to support the programs once implemented. They were mostly used for research to develop the programs and to train the teachers in different methods - and to monitor the programs to see which produced the better results.

So why pump money into private, for profit charter school businesses? Why not put that money into the public schools and let them try different teaching methods in the real world classrooms instead of the artificial constructs of the charter schools? The true success of an educational system cannot be properly measured when the group being worked with can be manipulated by the administrators.

Charter schools are becoming notorious for dumping students that do not fit into their plans to create an aura of success. I'm sure that public schools could succeed equally well if they could dump handicapped, disruptive, or non-English speaking students at will - but those are the students who particularly need better educational programs but that the charter schools often refuse to teach.
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #12
32. You are being selective and using that to paint a broad brush statement.
there are charter schools specifically for "special needs" children. But that still brings up the question of "mainstreaming" special needs kids. This is a serious question, and not one that is going to be answered easily. But, some people are so sure "they're right" they're not even going to allow any kind of experimentation to find out what actually works best for the kids.

And that is my point. Everybody thinks they're an "expert". Why don't we just try as many different things as we can and then just SEE what works and what doesn't?

But, NO! Everybody thinks "they're right" and everybody else is wrong, so why even try? That's just a conspiracy to steal money because, after all, "I'm right!"

Why can't we try something different and just see what works and what doesn't? Because some people are afraid they might be proven wrong?
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csziggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #32
38. You totally ignored the main point of my post
That public schools should be allowed to try new ideas as much as charter schools are. Even though in the past, public schools achieved higher rates of success with varied programs of education, that freedom to try new methods has become increasingly restricted. At the same time, for profit charter schools have been allowed free rein with no accountability to taxpayers that support them.

Far too often, the most "successful" charter schools have been the ones that HAVE thrown out less desirable students, even if you do not want to admit that. If we are going to measure the capability of public schools against charter schools, then they should be put on a level playing field - same cross section of students, same budget, same access to materials and resources.

I am not against trying new methods - I am against giving money to for profit organizations to run charter schools with no accountability and little equivalency to the conditions under which public school,systems struggle. If we are going to allow educational experimentation on the next generations I want more oversight than the current system of no accountability for profit charter school provides.

Why give money only to the charter schools to try different things?
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 12:10 AM
Response to Original message
13. My God, where have you been the past, oh, sixty, seventy, one hundred years?
There is more than enough "opportunity to experiment" within the public school system. In fact sometimes too much experimentation. Ironically enough, charter schools are a public school experiment, and like some other public school experiments, it has failed. It has proven to be a money pit that transfers money out of public schools into private hands while failing to do any better than public schools.

Yes, there are charters in inner cities that are successful, but then again a public school can be just as successful, if not more so, if we invested the money, effort and energy into them as are being put into charters.

And while charters, as the latest trendy thing among non-education "experts", are sucking down the public's money along with grants, corporate resources and elite donations, public schools are having to get by on a depressed property tax base and whatever largesse the federal government deigns to handout, along with the attached strings.

You may not want to see schools privatized, but charters are a large step in that direction. You may not be anti-union, but charters are being used to bludgeon unions. But if you truly want to "figure out what works," then you can easily accomplish that by fully funding each and every public school in this country, by paying teachers a salary that will attract the best and brightest of college students, and by putting real, live educational experts in charge of education for once, instead of politicians that want to use education as a political football. You do that, and you will see just how well our public schools, all our public schools, work.
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 12:31 AM
Original message
Self-Delete, Accidental Dupe nt
Edited on Wed Oct-06-10 12:32 AM by Dinger
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. Wow, That Deserves It's Own Thread
Excellent post!
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
26. Where have YOU been? Have you actually had a child in the
Public system?

What "experimentation"? I was an Education Major in college, although my life's course led me to my current position as a Corporate Trainer.

Yes, I am currently a "teacher" in the Private Sector, but I still support Public Schools and my ward attended the local Public Schools - and I was the one who attended many Parent/Teacher conferences - even after my spouse was so disgusted with the Public system that she refused to attend.

"Experimentation", in Public Systems? Bullshit! The only serious experimentation I ever saw was in the university schools. Regular Public Schools had their hands tied by the local school boards who usually ruled based on political and personal reasons and bias rather than what was best for the students.

Have you ever heard of the Texas Board of Education?

There are a lot of charter schools that operate under a lot of different charters. Yes, a lot of them fail. If they didn't fail, they they wouldn't be experimental.

If 99% of Charter Schools fail and 1% succeed, then we need to look at what that 1% did. If we learn to improve all our schools based on the lessons learned by avoiding the mistakes made by the 99% and implementing the successes by the 1%...

Then the program has succeeded. And our children will benefit from what we have learned.

Why is that so hard to understand?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
14. He did an ad for charter schools? That's disappointing.
Charter schools do not in fact give everyone the "opportunity to experiment", whatever that means, "free of traditional bureaucracy". They give privatized schools the freedom to pick and chose which children will have better access to education free of the community's democratic oversight. They give CEOs the freedom to have much higher salaries while working conditions for actual educators are de-professionalized.

I'm sorry. I love trying new things as much as anyone else but this is doublespeak.
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #14
29. No, he didn't "do an ad". And it's pretty obvious that you should
do some more research on Charter Schools because you have misinterpreted their purpose just as you misinterpreted the OP.

Educate yourself. Don't trust the "broad brush" many here have tried to paint.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Bullshit. n/t
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Catshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. Still condescending and clueless.
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Johonny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
15.  free of traditional bureaucracy -- cause that's been known to work when?
yes the history of deregulation and non-government involvement in this country is a vast long history of positive gain for the poor and middle class.

Frankly the reports on Charter schools I've read basically shows no real net positive effect other than in the for profits bank account. You can't make all public schools charter school, because when you do the "magic" effect of the charter school generally disappears. Almost like it didn't matter.

It's not that I disagree with everything in the film, yet there are areas of the film clearly ignoring evidence against their claims, but I don't have too :)
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
21. Kicked and Rec'd. I had no idea that John Legend was an expert on this topic
But his comments make a hell of a lot of sense.

"Ensuring that ALL American children can access a quality education is the civil rights issue of our time. We cannot stand idly by and allow this institutionalized inequality to continue."

I could not agree more, John. Great article and great points. Plus, he has the face of an angel.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
23. We know how to fix our schools. We just need to DO it.
And we would, if anybody were listening, if tptb would reject the outside privatization forces trying to bust public education and turn us loose to do so.

We don't need charters to allow diversity in teaching methods or anything else. Charters simply allow it for some, and keep the rest of us locked down in a standardized system. That lock down comes from the top.

Quit voting for and supporting privatizers. Listen to educators. Give educators a voice in school reform. Turn us loose, and you'll see faster, and better, and more comprehensive and creative, and more POSITIVE, and more CONSTRUCTIVE, reforms than anything offered by the private corporate sector or the politicians they buy.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
24. "Throwing money" at public schools won't work. So we "throw money" at charters.
Yep, that will work.
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Your sarcasm betrays you. The difference is between
"throwing money" at old ideas that have proven to not work vs "throwing money" at new ideas that might work.

One of the things I like about RTTT is that they have decided to spend their money wisely. First of all, it incentivises Public School Systems to work together to come up with new and innovative ideas. If the ideas appear promising, then they gain funds to try and implement those ideas. If the ideas are just the same, tired old shit that has never worked - why waste the money?

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #25
36. The ideas are not working. Yet they keep pushing them...
because it will be profitable for the billionaires.
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
27. Just a non-topical quibble: John Legend is not a jazz artist......
He's more R&B/pop
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Fair enough! He's also not an educational expert.
As I'm sure you know, there are a lot of different kinds of "jazz". Technically, "blues" of "Rhythym and Blues" is "jazz blues". But many talented artists are difficult to "pidgeon hole" and many times the lines between R/B and jazz are blurred. It's kind of like the official definition of pornography - "I know it when I see (or hear) it!"

Regardless, I think his statements stand on their own - no matter who said them.

As far as whether he's jazz or R/B, I think we will both agree that he's a talented musician. Period. :)
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kwassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. So, Legend is neither a jazz artist or educational expert .... why is he being quoted?
My statements stand on their own, too.

as do yours.

So?

He is allowing himself and his fame to be used by the charter school crowd he is disavowing.
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Catshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Because everyone who's anybody knows more about education
than public school teachers - you know, the people who actually do the job every day. Hell, Bill Gates, college dropout, is a fucking expert.

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