A letter to a man who will never ever read it:

[originalpckelly]

Mr. President, did President George W. Bush authorize torture? How would I know to trust you when it is quite clear that our government has no incentive to tell truth about the matter? Why should anyone pay taxes to a government that lies to them? Shouldn't a system that is so unresponsive and opaque to its people come down?

Respectfully,
Patrick Kelly
Minor citizen, one who really doesn't matter much in the big scheme of things.

PS: If you consider it possible to move forward while ignoring allegations of torture, you are a monster, just as bad as the people who did it in the first place.

[ThomCat]

1. Good letter.

The renditions, the torture, and the refusal to restore the rule of law are stains on this administration that will never come clean. History will not be kind when discussing these things. In the long run, this administration will look Barbaric and Fascistic for so much of the shit being done. :(

[originalpckelly]

4. They know that the few weirdos like us who want justice are just that: few.

Part of me is extremely pessimistic, the other part me is a little hopeful. I have no idea which side will win. One person can make a difference, but only so much. One person has only so much power. I know the man will never read this simple letter, but it is nice to dream that we commoners have that kind of power, isn't it?

[WeekendWarrior]

2. Really?

This is the issue that's foremost in your mind right now?

[originalpckelly]

5. When the house is burning down, aren't we all tempted to take some valuables with us?

To me, real morality, like the kind that keeps good people from torturing other human beings, that's one of my valuables.

[ThomCat]

7. Is there anything more important than the rule of law?

[WeekendWarrior]

12. It's a quaint ideal that

has never meant much in this country. The rule of law has never really applied to the rich and powerful -- it's meant to keep the help in line.

Bush will never be prosecuted, nor will Cheney. Not over what they did in office. And I'll tell you why. Because no president is gong to create a precedent that could conceivably put his office in danger from his political enemies. Nixon wasn't prosecuted. Clinton wasn't kicked out even though his enemies played a game of political theater. They backed off when it came time for the actual vote. And if you think Obama is going to go after Bush and Cheney is THIS political climate -- one in which a simple issue like health care caused near riots in the street (staged though may have been), then you're delusional. (Hell, we can't even agree whether or not to let a guy's house burn down.)

While I understand your desire for justice, and the rule of law, your naivete about such things is showing.

I'd love it if we lived in a perfect world where the bad guys got what's coming to them. I'd love nothing more than to see Bush and his cronies do the perp walk. But it's not going to happen. And right now, frankly, I think we have many more urgent issues to think about it.

[RandomThoughts]

3. The answer is that you are going after the cardboard cut out.

It is not the concept of having a government, it is the worse influences on that government, and that actually comes, in part, from consolidations in the private sector.

And removing governments would also transfer control to that sector.

By buying up government then having it support a few in the private sector, the private sector has pointed the anger at government, not the corruption behind it.

Much of the private sector can do good, but only if it is not in governance, either through buying of government, or the removal of government after buying government and getting people to think it needs removal.



I also agree, that the questions on topics of war crimes, should be addressed in a more just society, and have supported inquiry with both justice and compassion for many that have been tricked into those delusions of thinking torture is good.

Knowing that some think torture is acceptable is torture to many also. Although the problem in that, is not the knowing, but the doing, the knowing on that issue is to remove the doing.

to RT u RE. I find that interesting, although can be thought on many ways. So I am against torture, and will not be in such a place, nor should anyone else.

In the Air Tonight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfOkpws-Qts

Valerie's Letter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0lYIBjCpco

[originalpckelly]

6. I don't know how I feel about government anymore.

When I was younger, everything seemed so clear, but now it is all just a blur. I can only imagine how cynical I will be when I get older.

[RandomThoughts]

11. To some thoughts.

Sigh, and no I am not in torture.
You still don't understand do you.

Valery would not say 'she knew'.


Where is she now? not in torture, but in peace. But what would someone do while in peace? Wouldn't they share love with those in hardship?

Or maybe I am wrong, but if so, why believe any of my posts? Including those that some think make me wrong?

[RandomThoughts]

16. Side note, "if you were drowning", intersting comment

In the sequence first song.

Although with love, since everyone has some hardship, second song.


What an interesting perspective, could be rules applied back, but staying with love and kindness knowing everyone has difficulties.


Feed back loop, not a problem
Annie Lennox - Shining Light
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfJeQDkz4JU


Amping it up.

Scanners
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY-03vYYAjA

[RandomThoughts]

17. The Christine I think of would respect such a decision.

I don't follow based on labels.

And I actually think she is a good person, with a good heart, but have not heard rationalizations for the Republican positions, accept to toughen people up, in theory to get them to be more responsible.

I really like the lady, she is actually really nice in my view, hence why I respect her, just not her views on some topics as said in the news.

[RandomThoughts]

18. Side Side note, I am never lonely, even when alone.

Although the more friends the better, and being around people would be a good thing.

[JDPriestly]

8. My ancestors preached for the abolition of slavery long

before slavery was abolished. Their message was not always welcome, but they knew they were right, and they kept preaching. We know we are right, and we have to keep preaching for the abolition of torture and for understanding and peace.

We just have to keep on calmly restating the obvious: torture is wrong; war is wrong. Human rights must be respected by all if any of us are to live in peace.

[Chulanowa]

9. I'm not arguing with your sentiment...

But what exactly do you want done? "Hold them responsible" is shit - I'm sorry to put it this way, but all saying "I want them held responsible!" does is preen your own ego - it's vapid, it's vague, and anyone with two braincells to rub together cna cup up with that. In what manner do you want them held responsible? Obviously there should be an investigation, but by whom? How in-depth should this investigation last, and how deeply should it penetrate? What then should be done with the facts that are brought to light - if any?

And how will you balance this against the fact that Americans, even so-called "progressives" are more than happy to watch Muslims die if it saves them a buck? From what i've seen, people even here on DU aren't going to be too keen on investigating torture of Muslims if it means spending money.

[Dragonfli]

10. Follow the letter of the law - Simple.

Torture is against the law and has defined penalties. How far should it go? As far as the evidence takes it just like any other criminal investigation. No remaking of any wheels necessary, Would it be so confusing in a murder case or a felony robbery?

There is nothing mysterious about the rule of law, either it applies to all or we are a nation of men and not laws, it really is that simple.

[alcibiades_mystery]

13. I find this post tio be particularly unhelpful at this time

All due respect to the poster.

[originalpckelly]

15. Oh they're all a bunch of little weasels...

They've thrown our morality under the bus.

[pgodbold]

14. What he said.