AP-GfK Poll: Working-class whites shun Dems

[BridgeTheGap]

WASHINGTON — Desperate for jobs and cool toward President Barack Obama, working-class whites are flocking to Republicans, turning a group long wary of Democrats into an even bigger impediment to the party's drive to keep control of Congress.
An Associated Press-GfK poll shows whites without four-year college degrees preferring GOP candidates by twice the margin of the last two elections, when Democrats made significant gains in the House and Senate. The poll, conducted last month, found this group favoring GOP hopefuls 58 percent to 36 percent -- a whopping 22 percentage-point gap.

In 2008, when Obama won the presidency, they favored GOP congressional candidates by 11 percentage points, according to exit polls of voters. When Democrats won the House and Senate in 2006, the Republican edge was 9 percentage points.

Compared with better-educated whites, working-class whites tend to be older and more conservative -- groups that traditionally lean Republican and are uneasy with the young president's activist governing. Their wariness is reinforced by a prolonged economic funk that has disproportionately hurt the working class and shown scant signs of improvement under Obama and Congress' majority Democrats.

http://content.usatoday.net/dist/custom/gci/InsidePage.aspx?cId=courier-journal&sParam=34706477.story

[marmar]

1. "uneasy with the young president's activist governing"

What bullshit. ...... That's hardly what they're "uneasy" about.

[w8liftinglady]

5. I agree Marmar...I see it firsthand

in a county where the mean salary is 32K...89% Repub and home to one of the larger KKK groups and Tea Party orgs...need I say more?
We have had one hospital close,and the other overwhelmed by patients-they closed their ob/gyn floor,and patients are transferred to the next county.
Our streets have gone to shit,and houses sit vacant everywhere.
But-F*ck the Democrats-even though I live in a Republican state.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

11. Indeed

I imagine that it's really something else that they're *uneasy* about.

:eyes:

[FSogol]

2. Another BS news story written entirely by the RNC. n/t

[BridgeTheGap]

6. Think so? How many white working class people have you personally polled? It would be a strategic

error not to get that this is the case. What's troubling about these numbers is that they indicate that this particular demographic DOES NOT hold the republicans responsible for the mess we're in. The Democratic party used to be the "go to" party for working class people. What happened?

[BridgeTheGap]

7. In spite of the editorializing in the body of the article, the polling results are disturbing along

several lines, not the least of which is why working class people would EVER support Repubs. And, yeah, I know it's been the case since Reagan was elected in 1980, but it still bothers the hell out me.

[Capn Sunshine]

62. read "What's The Matter With Kansas?" then

What's the Matter With Kansas explains how it's possible to use an emotional-based "Us vs Them " narrative to convinve a resolutely working class electorate to vote to benefit the wealthy and powerful at the great expense of the average worker.

[geek tragedy]

24. The Civil Rights Act. nt

[groovedaddy]

29. So said Lyndon Johnson. But it didn't stop Jimmy Carter from being elected. n.t

[geek tragedy]

57. Endorsed by George Wallace and public supporter of William Calley. nt

[CBR]

27. They are scared of non-whites. nt

[independent_voter]

33. 'if you dont vote for us, you're a racist'

that's not going to win over people who feel they've been betrayed by free trade

[CBR]

34. Democrats are still the go to for working class minorities. Why is

that? They have been "fucked" by free trade as well.

[independent_voter]

37. i cant claim to know

because i dont

but if you keep claiming that a group doesnt vote for your party because they 'are racist', they may not vote for your party because they dont like your name calling

that's always been a valid reason

[CBR]

38. I call it how I see it. nt

[independent_voter]

40. do you have any idea how offensive that is?

in another post on this thread, you refer to people you've never met as 'racist fucks' (post 19)

the word to describe your attitude, believe it or not is 'prejudiced' (number 2a in particular)

prej·u·dice noun \ˈpre-jə-dəs\
Definition of PREJUDICE
1: injury or damage resulting from some judgment or action of another in disregard of one's rights; especially : detriment to one's legal rights or claims
2a (1) : preconceived judgment or opinion (2) : an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge b : an instance of such judgment or opinion c : an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics

[CBR]

45. I do not care! I am sick of walking around this issue. It is time to

call people on their shit.

[Romulox]

69. Me too!

[BridgeTheGap]

39. American Latinos likely to sit this one out in large numbers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/06/us/politics/06immig.html?_r=1&th&emc=th

[independent_voter]

32. 'The Democratic party used to be the "go to" party for working class people. What happened?'

what happened?

Democrats fully supported (and still support) the labor busting scheme of free trade, massive guest workers and outsourcing (Senator Clinton brought Indian outsourcer TATA to NY personally, TATA called it her 'brain child' in a pr release)

So, watching their jobs 'go to' other countries with the party's blessing for 18 years, people begin to question whether dems are really a party for 'working people' (at least American workers, anyway)

simple as that

and the issue isnt going away until real changes are made

suppose a fellow union member moonlighted as a labor busting goon to pay his union dues

wouldnt you question his commitment to the union?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

60. Wow, I guess there are no minorities in the working class, huh?

Somehow minorities manage to heavily favor Dems across all classes. Now why is that?

[krispos42]

3. Translation: white middle-class people happily commit suicide

*sigh*

[blondeatlast]

4. "...activist governing..." In other words his propensity for governing while

not white.

What an utterly BS article.

[shraby]

8. I call bull on this article. If they are such a force to be

reckoned with, and favored republicans by 11 percentage points in 2008, why did Obama win by such a large margin? They might favor the republicans, but there isn't enough of them to change the outcome.

[independent_voter]

9. *IF* the article is true, it's because Democrats havn't addressed 'Free' trade/H-1b visas

that is killing their jobs

Democrats have supported H-1b visa in the worst job recession in people's lifetimes

I've never voted republican in my life - not once

But I do sit out elections - I vote FOR people, not against others

Always voting the 'lessor of the evils' says 'you only have to be a tiny bit less evil to get my vote'

[Proud Liberal Dem]

13. Republicans support the same things

and worse, they actually stood up recently for outsourcing jobs as well.

Despite whatever negative effects that Democratic support of free trade and visas have had on jobs, it can't possibly be worse than the Republican's perpetual support of unaffordable and unproductive tax cut policies, outright hostility to unions, and support of, in fact, legalized work slavery (i.e. Saipan).

[independent_voter]

18. I said I've never voted Republican and dont plan to

but when all of the leading dems except durbin (and rep grassley) have supported H-1b, it's hard to see a difference. Hillary brought Indian outsourcer TATA to NY personally, and she's our secretary of state

look at the photo below (I just went to google images and searched TATA hillary, i know nothing about that site, but i did know that picture existed)

tell me you're 'OK' with this

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_d9PxlbCXrxA/RuyouHU0hII/AAAAAAAAAAc/eB1_hnP758g/s200/Hillary-Tata+Smooch.jpg

[cliffordu]

17. Well, then, sit the fuck out.

who gives a shit.

[independent_voter]

20. Is that the party's message?

I've never seen a campaign where a party has been so resolute in not discussing issues

seems like it's 'we told you to vote against the republicans, if you disobey us you can go to hell, we dont care about your petty concerns'

you have to remember that for every poster you think is a lost cause, there are undecided people who browse the site and read but dont post - people who may have similar concerns

what do you want to say to them?

[cliffordu]

21. I'm more than happy to discuss the issues with the undecided.

But that's now what you want to do, is it?

IF you don't want to vote, don't vote. Don't come in here and expect anyone to give you a martini and a rubdown for your fealty.

Either you get it or you don't.

Have fun!

:hurts:

[independent_voter]

22. do you consider bringing up free trade/H-1b visas asking for a martini and a rubdown?

i dont recall asking for a martini and a rubdown

these issues are hard core labor busting

[cliffordu]

23. you began your little screed talking about those things.....

and ended it sniveling about not voting.

Sometimes it IS a choice between the lesser if two evils.

No matter, we will get the government we deserve.

[independent_voter]

28. i said i need a message beyond 'it's irresponsible not to vote for us'

a plan for addressing (or even just acknowledging) the destruction of middle and working classes via these issues, then sure my mind is open about my vote

but attacking me for not promising a blank check, well that's different

[cliffordu]

31. Blah de blah de blah de blah

We got it, on to the next.

:eyes:

[Romulox]

42. This is pretty representative of the eloquence of the "centrist" position. nt

[cliffordu]

47. Well....

:rofl:


Ooooo...ganged up on!!! ooooooooOoOooOoOOOOOOoooooo

[cliffordu]

48. That's really NOT what you said and you know it, ya hoser.

[CBR]

19. Personally, I think a lot of them are racist fucks. nt

[Romulox]

43. Do you know what a "feedback loop" is?

You calling a large swath of people "racist fucks" based on little more than their class and race tends itself to be racist...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feedback

[independent_voter]

46. +1000

[CBR]

51. Whites in this country need to stop playing the victim. We need to

acknowledge that this specific demographic (I am white BTW) seems to be riddled with racism. Why do we constantly have to walk around this issue? Why? This is a result of white privilege.

[independent_voter]

52. any presupposition about a person you haven't met personally is prejudice

even if they're white

if you're tired of whites 'playing the victim', then quit making them one with your prejudice

[CBR]

53. Well I have never met Limbaugh -- can I make a presupposition about him or no?

[independent_voter]

54. you know what i meant

a specific person of whom you know nothing about, other than their race and class

[CBR]

55. What about my experience being harassed by working class whites

constantly in my hometown about my interracial marriage? Is that ok or should I not offend the poor victims of free trade?

I do not care if you think I am a racist fuck -- say it if you want. I stand by my experience and belief that working class whites harbor lots of racial and ethnic prejudices (including my own family) that lead them to vote against their own interests. When one tries to call them out on it, we are told "stop," " don't make presuppositions," "they are victims of the capitalist system."

I am going now to the Veterinarian, to prep for the Phillies game and to work on my dissertation. I wish I had written on white privilege.

Enjoy ignoring this issue.

[independent_voter]

56. I said you were prejudiced

"I do not care if you think I am a racist fuck"

those are your words, not mine. that language is not my style

i had an interacial relationship, are you still sure you know all about me and my attitudes?

are you still ok with my being 'a poor victim of free trade'

i'm not saying you dont have any enemies among that demographic

but i am saying you are making more than you need through your own prejudice

tell me the truth - before this post, would you have guessed that i had ever had a serious non white girlfriend?

you've expressed that my concerns dont matter because you lumped me in with a group that gave you flack over an issue, without even realizing that I would be the one defending you in an encounter, because i would identify with your situation

[SemiCharmedQuark]

61. Well, Lou Dobbs has a hispanic wife, and is racist.

Even held up a box of those racist Obama waffles and exclaimed "My wife loves this!" http://thinkprogress.org/2008/09/13/obama-waffles-featuring-racist-stereotyped-images-sold-at-values-voter-summit/

So really, that's not exactly a "get out of prejudice free" card you seem to think it is any more than "I have a black friend" would be.

[Romulox]

68. Well, being a shill for cheap labor and multinational corporations doesn't exactly prove

any anti-racist bona fides, either. Globalism is the a worldwide conspiracy to oppress ethnic minorities for profit, after all! :hi:

[independent_voter]

73. if senator mccarthy called you a communist

there's nothing you could say to him either

(and having a non white girlfriend is just a liiiiitle more intimate than saying you 'have a black friend)

[cliffordu]

58. BWAHAHH AH AH H AHHAHAHAH AH HA HAHHA!!!!

Fuck me, you're funny!!!

:rofl:

[independent_voter]

59. no need

i think you're doing it yourself just fine

[BridgeTheGap]

67. Back in the day, I had the opportunity to work (from the left) with former black panthers, nation of

Islam folks and others against the KKK. Court ordered desegregation had been ordered in our fair city and it brought the racists out of the woodwork.
Working with militant blacks (I'm white, with some native american thrown in) had me examine my own set of beliefs about race. These guys were very quick to point out when one of our white cohorts was staking out a position or making a statement from a racist supposition. Racism is pernicious and pervasive. I saw it again during the Obama campaign. How many white people did I hear say that they weren't racist? But were quick to say how much they hated Obama.
One of the things that happened "back in the day": I worked in a factory where the Klan was actively organizing. My politics were openly to the far left and I was actively organizing against them. The normally hidden racism revealed itself among many of the whites I worked with. I also worked with a Polish emigre, who was also a concentration camp survivor, the only one in his entire family.
One day in the break room, one of the klansmen started going on about how Hitler really wasn't such a bad guy. The polish guy, of scrawny physique, dove across the table and began choking this huge redneck. We had to pull him off the guy before he killed him. The really interesting thing though were the number of WWII vets in that room, racists to boot, roundly condemned the klansman for his support of Hitler - "We fought a war against that bastard so don't come in here with that shit!"
I also noticed after this event, that the overt racisism among most whites started receding. I can't say for sure why, but I think there was some recognition of what the klan really stood for. Maybe this caused many of these old crackers to examine their own views on race.

[Romulox]

70. Regardless of what ANYBODY else has done in history, YOU are responsible for your OWN hate.

:hi:

[Proud Liberal Dem]

10. "Desperate for jobs......"

and the Republican plan for helping them get jobs is.............????????? :shrug:

:wtf:

[HughBeaumont]

30. "FAITH IN TEH FREE MARKETZZ!!!1!!1!!"

This is "rubber room" talk in any other country, of course. But don't the American Profiteering Politburo that.

They think shit's hunky-dory as long as the rest of America fears "SOSHULISM" without seeing the reality that we already HAVE it . . . except it's flowing in the wrong direction.

[Romulox]

72. Do you even know who Tim Geithner, Larry Summers, Austin Goolsbee are? (hint: Free market types)

:hi:

[HughBeaumont]

77. Get rid of them, the Cancer's still there.

"They're all the same" all you want - politicians who help the people take dirt naps.

You know, unless the people, by the millions and sitting on their lawns and in their board rooms, actually stop this country's REAL problem (hint again: it's not politicians).

You think people like Howard Dean, Kucinich, Bernie Sanders and Sherrod Brown are kept in their places by accident?

Good luck with that, though - this hunt and exchange proves our own SIDE isn't even on the same page. How are millions of people going to be?

:hi:

[Romulox]

78. You make it sound like you're lampooning the subjects of the OP with "free market" jibes though

They're supposed to "vote their interests" by supporting the guy who named Geithner et al. to top economic posts, then proceeded to dole out trillions to the banks? Forgive the uneducated for being confused by this, because I've spent some time studying, and I'm dumbfounded by this line of argument. :shrug:

[HughBeaumont]

79. They wouldn't be voting "for their interests" by putting another slash-n-waster in office.

Has nothing at ALL good come out of Barack Obama's administration? NOTHING?

I'll see about the whole "They're all the same" after the year, whether the rich still have their tax cuts or not. If that still happens, then revolt should soon follow. And I'm not kidding. If the people are doormats after this, they'll be doormats all their lives.

[Amonester]

35. Shipping more, if not all, of their jobs overseas.

Count on these new-generation Hara-Kiri's lightbulbs to vote against their own interests again, because rush lickballs is ordering them to. Unless this stupid poll was taken one month ago, and they haven't taken into account the latest 'teabagster-horror picture show scare' ones.

Maybe the tide has turned, and they've come to their lesser-of-two-evils senses (or non-sense-but-do-we-have-a-choice).

[Historic NY]

12. bullshit...plain & simple KKK rove & Newt couldn't have written that better....RNC memo

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x467359

[groovedaddy]

14. On the interpretation/commentary, probably so. But what about the numbers themselves? I've knocked

on a lot of doors of mostly democrats, some independents and repubs. This is the "What's the matter with Kansas" phenomenon. Whoever replied in the thread about free trade and immigration's impact on this demographic is dead on. I've heard it way too much when I've talked to people on behalf of Dem candidates.

[independent_voter]

25. thank you for acknowledging the issue

it's not that people think republicans are going to be any better on these issues, it's that they think the democrats have turned a complete deaf ear to them

it that 'representation'?

sometimes I almost think the party's message to these people is 'you dont deserve representation, because we *think* you're a bigot' that does not earn votes

[HughMoran]

15. ... ignorant bigot morons?

Sucks that some are so easy to manipulate.

[Brewman_Jax]

16. The same class of idiots

that voted for Bush* twice and didn't mind him lying and tanking the economy because "he's one of us."

[Number23]

65. Exactly.

[sadbear]

26. Let them elect the republican tea party

And see if their fortunes change for the better.

[ClarkUSA]

36. Better headline: "Racists side with teabaggers on Obama and vote against their economic interests."

[Spazito]

41. One only needs to read the actual poll to know how badly this poll AND the article smells...

Here's the link to the poll:

http://www.ap-gfkpoll.com/pdf/AP-GfK%20Poll%20September%20Topline%2009.15.10%20final%20FULL.pdf

Check out how 'diverse' the respondents are regarding race/ethnicity (found at the end of the poll)

Check out how many supporters of the Dems were polled versus supporters of the repubs (Hint: quite a difference in the numbers)

[Romulox]

44. It got the desired response: hateful class/race based invective.

So it is "true" in the only sense that really matters.

[independent_voter]

49. pretty scary, isnt it?

sure as heck isnt the democratic party i grew up with

it could be a little snide at times back then

but nothing like this

[Spazito]

50. I would disagree, it is not true in any way...

and "hateful class/race based invective" occurs with or without polls like this, ie the teabaggers. If one chooses to give such a poll credibility in any way by stating "it is "true" in the only sense that really matters", well, I guess what matters to me differs greatly from that perspective.

[Romulox]

71. Um, whoosh? nt

[Spazito]

76. No "whoosh", merely not buying what your post is trying to sell n/t

[Capn Sunshine]

63. Why do I smell dirty socks?

Keerist, someone do the goddam laundry!

[BlueCheese]

64. Calling people racists...

... is probably even less effective in getting their votes than calling them whiners.

The article says that in 2008, the Republicans had an 11-point edge on white working-class people. Today it's 22 points. Did the people who flipped over suddenly realize that Barack Obama is (half) black?

One of the most counterproductive things the left does is to repeatedly and obviously look down on others. People sense when you think that you're smarter than them, that you're more sophisticated than them, that you don't respect their faith, that you know what's best for them, and most importantly, that you don't respect them. If you repeatedly communicate to them that their views are not simply the result of different political philosophies, but because they aren't as enlightened as you, or worst of all, because they're morally bankrupt (e.g., racist), then don't be surprised when they decide to vote for someone who at least pretends to respect them.

[independent_voter]

74. exactly - if people think you dont respect them, they know you wont represent them

because you feel that representing them is beneith you and they dont deserve it

people arent stupid

they figure this stuff out

and what do you elect a REPRESENTATIVE to do, besides represent you in the house of representatives?

sometimes i think the party really needs to get back to the basics on this, that it is in the business of selling representation

and the voter had better think you are selling it to THEM, rather than just demanding their vote from them so you can give it to the 'right' people

and the latter is the message a lot of white collar democrats have gotten from the party

globalism and free trade are their main issues, and frankly the party's record is pretty weak

knee-jerk reckless accusations of 'racism' is a tactic that has jumped the shark, (maybe not as dramattically as mcarthyism did in the 1953 army mccarty hearings, but it has nonetheless) and to continue it means losing when you could have won

[Ikonoklast]

66. Steaming pantsload. Unrec.

[independent_voter]

75. If Democrats took a stand on free trade and globalism, this wouldn't be the case at all

they would support democrats hands down

but they perceive that there isnt a dimes worth of difference between the parties on those issues, so the only difference is on the culture wars

this group has had a lifetime of change, and in the economic changes, they lose every time - it makes them biased against all change, perhaps even 'clinging to guns and religeon' as some might say

on the culture war issues, any time they question the democrat's position, even if they could eventually be won over, they feel they get called a 'bigot', 'homophobe', 'xenophobe' etc unless they 'snap to' and get in line. ad hominem tacics never endeared anything to anyone

the party will eventually address the legitimate perceptions of arrogance that this group has about the party - the only question is how much the party will lose before it does